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Serious Question

MyTeamIsOnTheFloor

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I have no idea how many folks were at the Trump rally, or how many went into the Capitol, or how many committed an act of violence or property destruction outside or inside the Capitol.

Does anybody KNOW these figures yet?

How many arrests/trials/pleas can the courts/prosecutors anticipate?
 
I have no idea how many folks were at the Trump rally, or how many went into the Capitol, or how many committed an act of violence or property destruction outside or inside the Capitol.

Does anybody KNOW these figures yet?

How many arrests/trials/pleas can the courts/prosecutors anticipate?

The only public debriefing has been by DC. Federal government has not made any public comments about the insurrection.
 
Here's one source. (82 warrants issued)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55578092

What I find interesting is none of these photos show those pictured while actively engaged in violence (eg, beating cops with flag poles). I suspect there is a less public investigation underway for those folks.
 
everyone who stepped inside the Capitol building needs to do time. I don't know if that is 100, a few hundred, or what. But eveyone identified in the rioting needs to be charged as a terrorist. So what if you were there to take a selfie and were too stupid to realize what you were getting into. Tough shit.
 
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everyone who stepped inside the Capitol building needs to do time. I don't know if that is 100, a few hundred, or what. But eveyone identified in the rioting needs to be charged as a terrorist. So what if you were there to take a selfie and were too stupid to realize what you were getting into. Tough shit.

I admit to being a bit torn on that point.

First, there was some really vicious actions by people outside the building, and those folks ought to be the priority.

I do think there are folks who had no thoughts about entering until they saw everyone around them entering with no resistance. Many of them had actually never been to DC before, and literally did not understand how big a deal it is to stroll past metal detectors into the Capitol And the President basically just told them to do it.

I would charge everyone identified inside the original perimeter, but not seek jail time absent further aggressions.
 
The only public debriefing has been by DC. Federal government has not made any public comments about the insurrection.

Yeah this is very weird. A major incident like this occurs and not a single briefing from FBI, DOJ, DHS, Etc. Why the silence? What’s going on here?
 
Yeah this is very weird. A major incident like this occurs and not a single briefing from FBI, DOJ, DHS, Etc. Why the silence? What’s going on here?
They're still creating the narrative for the Las Vegas murders...
 
I admit to being a bit torn on that point.

First, there was some really vicious actions by people outside the building, and those folks ought to be the priority.

I do think there are folks who had no thoughts about entering until they saw everyone around them entering with no resistance. Many of them had actually never been to DC before, and literally did not understand how big a deal it is to stroll past metal detectors into the Capitol And the President basically just told them to do it.

I would charge everyone identified inside the original perimeter, but not seek jail time absent further aggressions.
I get what you're saying about the people who legitimately got caught up in the moment, but I only think they were being naive to an extent. Given all the terror attacks of the last 20-30 years (OKC, Atlanta Olympics, WTC x 2, etc), it's pretty well documented how ramped up security is and how big a deal it would be to breach it.
 
They're still creating the narrative for the Las Vegas murders...

No they’re not. Everyone knows what happened in Las Vegas.

Quick question. Do you have any personal relationships? I realize you’re not looking to be “rescued” or “deprogrammed”, but it might make sense to step away from your computer. Take a drive with friends or family, listen to music, and generally stop thinking of these about these things for a while.
 
I admit to being a bit torn on that point.

First, there was some really vicious actions by people outside the building, and those folks ought to be the priority.

I do think there are folks who had no thoughts about entering until they saw everyone around them entering with no resistance. Many of them had actually never been to DC before, and literally did not understand how big a deal it is to stroll past metal detectors into the Capitol And the President basically just told them to do it.

I would charge everyone identified inside the original perimeter, but not seek jail time absent further aggressions.

I would charge every person who committed an intentional act of violence or destruction of property - but good luck with determining who.

Merely walking into a public building after the guards/cops open the doors and let you in is not criminal.

If you see violence happening and do not walk the other way? Stupid maybe. (The videos I have seen of the folks who wandered around like tourists make me believe that some folks inside thought they were ... tourists. Maybe fire the guards/cops if they were not supposed to do that, but even when Congress is in session, the Capitol is "open" - been there/done that. Remember the barrels outside - where you have the last chance to throw away your weapons and illegal drugs before entering?) ) MAYBE criminal if you pitch in with the violence. In this context, probably not worth the effort to find and prosecute. HOWEVER ... get ready to hear the same defenses that you hear from the folks arrested at protests in Wisconsin a while back, folks who stormed the Supreme Court building a few months back, Portland, Louisville, etc. - "a riot is the language of the unheard." Stupid is not criminal. Remember that guy who asked the CNN reporter "what are we supposed to do?" There will be a LOT of people there who can truthfully say "I believed DNA-deep the election was stolen and I wanted Congress to hear my side and they wouldn't listen - I was against violence, but I didn't expect any and was just there."

Plus, there is video from a guy in Louisville that showed the woman who got shot. She was shot by somebody - I'm gonna guess Secret Service assigned to the House - just inside the window she was trying to climb through, but right behind her - and I mean IMMEDIATEY - within 4 feet - are uniformed police officers trying to calm things/move people out. Minimum - whoever shot her was also potentially likely to shoot a cop - like the fool cop shooting at everything in the Breonna Taylor shooting here. Most real - it was just chaos and most people panic in chaos.

But my main reason for asking is a practical concern. I'm a lawyer. I see these cases as a "motion hour" nightmare. A prosecutor's nightmare. A judge's nightmare. A defense lawyers dream. a mess that will take YEARS to straighten out.
 
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I would charge every person who committed an intentional act of violence or destruction of property - but good luck with determining who.

Merely walking into a public building after the guards/cops open the doors and let you in is not criminal.

If you see violence happening and do not walk the other way? Stupid maybe. (The videos I have seen of the folks who wandered around like tourists make me believe that some folks inside thought they were ... tourists. Maybe fire the guards/cops if they were not supposed to do that, but even when Congress is in session, the Capitol is "open" - been there/done that. Remember the barrels outside - where you have the last chance to throw away your weapons and illegal drugs before entering?) ) MAYBE criminal if you pitch in with the violence. In this context, probably not worth the effort to find and prosecute. HOWEVER ... get ready to hear the same defenses that you hear from the folks arrested at protests in Wisconsin a while back, folks who stormed the Supreme Court building a few months back, Portland, Louisville, etc. - "a riot is the language of the unheard." Stupid is not criminal. Remember that guy who asked the CNN reporter "what are we supposed to do?" There will be a LOT of people there who can truthfully say "I believed DNA-deep the election was stolen and I wanted Congress to hear my side and they wouldn't listen - I was against violence, but I didn't expect any and was just there."

Plus, there is video from a guy in Louisville that showed the woman who got shot. She was shot by somebody - I'm gonna guess Secret Service assigned to the House - just inside the window she was trying to climb through, but right behind her - and I mean IMMEDIATEY - within 4 feet - are uniformed police officers trying to calm things/move people out. Minimum - whoever shot her was also potentially likely to shoot a cop - like the fool cop shooting at everything in the Breonna Taylor shooting here. Most real - it was just chaos and most people panic in chaos.

But my main reason for asking is a practical concern. I'm a lawyer. I see these cases as a "motion hour" nightmare. A prosecutor's nightmare. A judge's nightmare. A defense lawyers dream. a mess that will take YEARS to straighten out.
You're just stirring the pot to cause trouble. Knock it off. This is no time to be a goof.

There was no permit to hold a rally at the capitol. The authorized rally was near the White House, one mile away. At the rally, Trump told them to go to the Capitol and cheer on the Congress members who were challenging the results and not cheer on the ones that didn't. How else could they do this without going inside?

Trump told them:

""And after this, we're going to walk down there, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down ... to the Capitol and we are going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women," Trump told the crowd. "And we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them. Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong."

"We will never give up. We will never concede. It doesn't happen. You don't concede when there's theft involved," Trump said. "Our country has had enough. We're not going to take it anymore."

From the monent their march occupied and blocked Pennsylvania Avenue they were breaking the law.

When they were all done tearing up the Capitol, Trump praised and excused them in a video speech, not condemn them:

"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"

That confirms Trump agreed with what they had done.

Edit to add this link: https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story...speech-spark-u-s-capitol-storming/6568337002/
 
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You're just stirring the pot to cause trouble. Knock it off. This is no time to be a goof.

There was no permit to hold a rally at the capitol. The authorized rally was near the White House, one mile away. At the rally, Trump told them to go to the Capitol and cheer on the Congress members who were challenging the results and not cheer on the ones that didn't. How else could they do this without going inside?

Trump told them:

""And after this, we're going to walk down there, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down ... to the Capitol and we are going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women," Trump told the crowd. "And we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them. Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong."

"We will never give up. We will never concede. It doesn't happen. You don't concede when there's theft involved," Trump said. "Our country has had enough. We're not going to take it anymore."

From the monent their march occupied and blocked Pennsylvania Avenue they were breaking the law.

When they were all done tearing up the Capitol, Trump praised and excused them in a video speech, not condemn them:

"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"

That confirms Trump agreed with what they had done.

Edit to add this link: https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story...speech-spark-u-s-capitol-storming/6568337002/

Once again, you are just applying a double standard. The rule for that protest is different than the rule you would apply to lots of other protests, including the people who stormed the Supreme Court building after Cavanaugh was appointed, the people who blocked the streets in all of the other cities across the country this summer, and anybody with him you disagree.

Here is how truly stupid your reasoning is. Go back to the “I have a dream” speech in 1963. Assume that 50,000 of those people leave that protest and wander back and go to Congress just to see what the damn thing looks like. Now 10 of them start to cheer and sing and the “protest“ restarts. Some start singing “we shall overcome “
while others shout “by any means necessary.” Three of them start throwing rocks at cops and it turns into a riot. And you think they all should go to jail. The America you want is a police state - but only for people you don’t like.

I apply the same rule of law to all.
You don’t.
 
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...wander back and go to Congress just to see what the damn thing looks like.
Not a single person wandered into congress to see what the damn thing looks like. They overran barricades, overpowered police, or at least stepped over the remnants. Then they shattered glass, rammed doors off their hinges, and spread around feces.

I don't know if it was dear leader Trump's feces or not. Maybe you can't dust for feces.
 
Once again, you are just applying a double standard. The rule for that protest is different than the rule you would apply to lots of other protests, including the people who stormed the Supreme Court building after Cavanaugh was appointed, the people who blocked the streets in all of the other cities across the country this summer, and anybody with him you disagree.

Here is how truly stupid your reasoning is. Go back to the “I have a dream” speech in 1963. Assume that 50,000 of those people leave that protest and wander back and go to Congress just to see what the damn thing looks like. Now 10 of them start to cheer and sing and the “protest“ restarts. Some start singing “we shall overcome “
while others shout “by any means necessary.” Three of them start throwing rocks at cops and it turns into a riot. And you think they all should go to jail. The America you want is a police state - but only for people you don’t like.

I apply the same rule of law to all.
You don’t.
That's not a rule of law. That's just speculating what I would have said about Cavanaugh's hearing or speculating what would hypothetically happen if people had done something different during MLK's rally in 1963.

You posted something very similar yesterday and I responded with a link that described what is required to get a conviction for inciting riots. That's what a rule of law is. You apparently didn't read it. No specific words are required to commit incitement and, in fact, no words at all are even required.
 
I would charge every person who committed an intentional act of violence or destruction of property - but good luck with determining who.

If this guy can be (tentatively) identified and arrested (he has been), I'm confident there will be many, many more arrested for beating cops with sticks while wearing no face covering at all. There are some damn good internet sleuths out there.

1400x-1.jpg


But my main reason for asking is a practical concern. I'm a lawyer. I see these cases as a "motion hour" nightmare. A prosecutor's nightmare. A judge's nightmare. A defense lawyers dream. a mess that will take YEARS to straighten out.

That's all part and parcel of our justice system, though, right? Too many don't have the patience for it, though. Hell, people can't even wait 4 years to try to win the next Presidential election.
 
Plus, there is video from a guy in Louisville that showed the woman who got shot. She was shot by somebody - I'm gonna guess Secret Service assigned to the House - just inside the window she was trying to climb through, but right behind her - and I mean IMMEDIATEY - within 4 feet - are uniformed police officers trying to calm things/move people out. Minimum - whoever shot her was also potentially likely to shoot a cop - like the fool cop shooting at everything in the Breonna Taylor shooting here. Most real - it was just chaos and most people panic in chaos.

You can't compare this situation to the Breanna Taylor situation.

There were elected officials in the chamber when that lady was trying to climb through the window. The officer didn't know if she was armed or not, but he knew the capital was being raided and she was not suppose to be there, so he took action to protect the people he was sworn to protect. Plus she was shot within what, a couple feet of where he was. He wasn't gonna miss from there. To say he was likely to shoot a cop is highly projecting on your part.
 
If this guy can be (tentatively) identified and arrested (he has been), I'm confident there will be many, many more arrested for beating cops with sticks while wearing no face covering at all. There are some damn good internet sleuths out there.

1400x-1.jpg




That's all part and parcel of our justice system, though, right? Too many don't have the patience for it, though. Hell, people can't even wait 4 years to try to win the next Presidential election.
My favorite part of this photo (if there can be one) is that his phone is literally a part of his "gear" and is probably recording the whole thing (look at the red dot in the middle). So many of these fools are going to be caught b/c they were chasing likes on the internet. Amazing.
 
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everyone who stepped inside the Capitol building needs to do time. I don't know if that is 100, a few hundred, or what. But eveyone identified in the rioting needs to be charged as a terrorist. So what if you were there to take a selfie and were too stupid to realize what you were getting into. Tough shit.

They should get the same punishment as the Code Pink people who showed up to protest during the Kavanaugh hearings. All this "insurrection" talk is complete ****ing nonsense.
 
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I missed where any Code Pink people killed people, broke glass, rammed down doors, looted, ransacked, erected a gallows, threatened to lych people, and also smeared the place with feces. Got a link?
 
I missed where any Code Pink people killed people, broke glass, rammed down doors, looted, ransacked, erected a gallows, threatened to lych people, and also smeared the place with feces. Got a link?

Also there were many arrests that day of people who simply trespassed without committing violence or property destruction. I don't remember a bunch of whining about people who knowingly and peacefully broke the law suffering legal consequences.
 
Once again, you are just applying a double standard. The rule for that protest is different than the rule you would apply to lots of other protests, including the people who stormed the Supreme Court building after Cavanaugh was appointed, the people who blocked the streets in all of the other cities across the country this summer, and anybody with him you disagree.

Here is how truly stupid your reasoning is. Go back to the “I have a dream” speech in 1963. Assume that 50,000 of those people leave that protest and wander back and go to Congress just to see what the damn thing looks like. Now 10 of them start to cheer and sing and the “protest“ restarts. Some start singing “we shall overcome “
while others shout “by any means necessary.” Three of them start throwing rocks at cops and it turns into a riot. And you think they all should go to jail. The America you want is a police state - but only for people you don’t like.

I apply the same rule of law to all.
You don’t.
What a circus, all during a pandemic. Do you feel proud? Are you a patriot?
 
If this guy can be (tentatively) identified and arrested (he has been), I'm confident there will be many, many more arrested for beating cops with sticks while wearing no face covering at all. There are some damn good internet sleuths out there.

1400x-1.jpg




That's all part and parcel of our justice system, though, right? Too many don't have the patience for it, though. Hell, people can't even wait 4 years to try to win the next Presidential election.
Do you see the orange cap in the photo you posted? I read that the Proud Bois designated orange as the clothing color to wear at this rally so thry could tell their own people. At some if their summer rallies I read they were wearing black and yellow/gold. The next time you look at crowd shots from the riots, look closely to see the orange clothing.
 
Do you see the orange cap in the photo you posted? I read that the Proud Bois designated orange as the clothing color to wear at this rally so thry could tell their own people. At some if their summer rallies I read they were wearing black and yellow/gold. The next time you look at crowd shots from the riots, look closely to see the orange clothing.
It looks like the proud boy's mommy. 🤣
 
Do you see the orange cap in the photo you posted? I read that the Proud Bois designated orange as the clothing color to wear at this rally so thry could tell their own people. At some if their summer rallies I read they were wearing black and yellow/gold. The next time you look at crowd shots from the riots, look closely to see the orange clothing.

The Pround Boys are gonna run into trouble eventually when they end up in an area controlled by the Latin Kings and are wearing Kings colors...which are Gold and Black.
 
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