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Seattle Mayor bans city-funded travel to Indiana.

San Fran mayor did the same... Also college

Presidents are speaking out. We've heard from Butler , IU and DePauw. Will be interesting to see if Mitch has anything to say.
 
LIberals have no class

You guys ban and boycott more stuff in a week than conservatives have in the history of the world.

What ever happened to the ability to articulate arguments, let the political process play out, and then accept the results like adults. Instead you act like a bunch of spoiled brat kids with all your boycotts, demonstrations, protests and insults.

The sad part is you are protesting over an illusion in the case of the Indiana RFRA and over a lie in "hands up don't shoot".
 
Oh please.....the moral police have people boycotting

Movies, television shows and the companies that advertise during the shows, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, doctors, American Girl Dolls, Teletubbies, any place that doesn't allow them to proudly carry a weapon, anyone that dates to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas...because WAR on Christmas, etc. AFA is one of ,any that sends out a boycott list on a regular basis. So no, it's not a liberal thing.
 
What a surprise!

CO says it is all liberals' fault! At least you did not say it is Obama's fault. I will give you that.
 
and that barely scratches the surface

Disney, P&G, Levi, and Ford are some more boycotts. There was a call to boycott Hobbit movies, the next Star Wars movie, and 50 Shades. Now the last one is excusable as having good taste in cinema but nevertheless.

When someone told me about the Girl Scout cookie boycott I couldn't believe it. Then I saw an interview with the people calling for it. Some people.
 
Marv . . . .

I think you are talking about religious-based boycotts.

Once again, you fell for that conservative = religious myopic.
 
He needs to be consistent

He should also ban travel to Illinois, Kentucky, Texas and the rest of the 19 states with the same law.

The backlash is a political move that depends that the masses will believe the Democrat party and the network news organizations interpretation over the actual law. The law protects every religious group from the government imposing things that are in conflict with religion. An example is forcing Notre Dame or the Catholic Church provide birth control or abortions. Agree or disagree if that is the right thing to do, but it is at the core of the church's view and has been as long as I can remember. It would apply to all religions.

Maybe the law can be amended to be more clear, but like Pence said, it isn't going to change the law. It isn't going to change because discrimination was never intended to be part of it. Pence got rolled by George StuffingEnvelopes. He probably got a congratulations call from Obama for that interview.
 
I will grant a difference

But the GOP enjoys the advantages it has in large part due to Christian conservatives (their term, not mine). Often times a group like PETA does something stupid and everyone left of center gets tarred with it*, this is just the mirror of that. How about this, someone that votes right of center is in fact calling for a lot of boycotts.

I don't know about boycotts, I don't know that I've ever boycotted anything. At least not for political grounds, I've never wanted to see a Will Ferrell movie but I suspect that's different. I guess I also do boycott Chick-fil-a, but I hate chicken so that isn't political. If I discovered tomorrow that a business in Bloomington refused to serve gays, I'm not sure what I would do. I would have a strong urge not to use their service. I don't like interfering in someone's religion, but there is that same question I can't get an answer to. If a business owner refused all sinners, I could understand the concept. But I just can't find a moral reason why one would refuse only one particular type of sin. And once I come to that conclusion, I have a hard time accepting the exclusion is solely on religious grounds. But if someone could convince me their particular religion required it, I might well sympathize with them.

*One of my favorite word tricks of Limbaugh's starts this way. He'll find some group like PETA and blast them for some stupidity. But as he rants, he wording ever so slightly loosens, and at the end he's going on and on about the liberal agenda. Someone will point out that most liberals don't agree with PETA and he'll say something like "who was talking about liberals, I was addressing PETA". But in the rant he certainly would equate PETA with liberals, repeatedly.
 
Zeke . . . . .

Next time an elected conservative calls for a boycott of a state because of a duly enacted law, get back to me.

Otherwise you are wasting bandwidth with your religious boycot list.
 
Both parties accept the advantages offered by fringe extreme groups

The Democrats not only accept the racial polarization benefits offered by Al Sharpton, but the Democrats, specifically including president Obama, willingly encourage and support Sharpton's racial antics with their official duties. That had gotten so bad in the last year that thousands of people lost jobs, are in jail, or had their businesses destroyed.

As for the "one particular type of sin" I think you are overstating the problem and playing into the overreaction we see in all quarters to the Indiana RFRA law. None of that has to do with "serving gays" as far as I know. It has to do with marriage, which millions of people see as a holy sacrament.
 
Don't go changing your argument

You said liberals ban more stuff in a week than conservatives have in the history of the world. No mention of elected officials. You just have all your little groups do the dirty work. So yeah, conservatives ban or boycott as much as liberals do, which was your argument before you changed your mind to make a new one,
 
Not all states have the same law, this has been hashed out

Many of the states list gays as a protected class (Illinois for example), so this law automatically is different. The Texas law (current) specifically excludes civil rights compliance from RFRA, as do most other RFRAs. The Indiana fix is the same, just add a section that civil rights are exempted as most states have.

The Indiana law was written as broadly as possible to try to allow a judge to interpret it a certain way. I like this take on the law, which concludes with:

This is but another way in how IRFRA is more broadly written than its federal and state predecessors. While I would agree with the notion that its not an outright license to discriminate in and of itself (a court ruling would have to decide that), it does allow the path of least resistance among its species to have a court adjudicate it in a manner that could ultimately be used to discriminate against those protected in Indiana by human rights ordinances.
 
Have you truly not read or understood

The difference in the new law in Indiana and those in the other 19 states? Do yourself a favor and read up on it, it's been posted in multiple threads here. You really think this is headline news all over the country , made fun of on SNL, and provoking all these boycotts because it's the same law? People just hate Indiana? Makes no sense. Obviously, this law is different.
 
It may be a holy sacrement

But some religions now DO allow it. If religious freedom is important, should the Unitarians receive the same benefit as the Catholic Church? If we do not allow gay marriage, are you not infringing on the rights of Unitarians?
 
Hobbit Movies?

Those movies sucked beyond belief.

Boycotting them was the very least that should have been down.

In this case, I believe a violent uprising against the creators of said trash was perfectly justifiable......
 
19 states protect established religious ceremonies like peyote puffiing

one state embarrassingly takes it much much much further
 
it would be awesome if Indy Cars refused to run the Indy 500 in Indy

certainly no more super bowls, final fours, or even NCAA regionals

Even if you ignore the morality/bigotry angle, the bill is a FINANCIAL DISASTER
 
Well I'm fairly sure it wasn't liberals

that banned same-sex marriage. So I guess they don't have a monopoly on it after all.
 
you forgot Charles Barkely, who wants NCAA to move the Final Four!


Not to diminish or disparage the other voices speaking out against the law, but I laughed out loud when I heard that Charles Barkley thinks they should move the Final Four, this year's Final four that starts on Saturday (and surely includes all kinds of other events all week)!

Now, it's one thing to be passionate about an issue. But you kind of lose a lot of credibility when you make outlandish comments or demands like Barkley. Heck, he's made so many like that over the years one might wonder if he does it intentionally to get a rise out of people. Then I remind myself that Charles Barkley is not the brightest bulb in the pack. I'm not sure he's capable of such abstract thinking.
 
Ha, I love Charles merely

Because he is such a loose cannon. Everyone else gives you exactly what you know you're going to get. Charles doesn't do his homework, half the time has no idea what he is talking about and still gets paid for it. What a gig!
 
LOL, churches asked people to boycott Harry Potter movies for "promoting

witchcraft"

They did the same thing way back when for the Wizard of Oz,

The right-wing boycott has always been common, it is just that now the haters launching them are being widely recognized as ignorant bigots.
 
I agree...he is pretty funny, and relatively harmless given that...

everyone knows that you're not going to get a lot of deep thinking out of him.
 
This is the same as the war on women. This law protects people who feel

there is a burden on their religious beliefs. As a pastor who is opposed to gay marriage will I have to perform gay ceremonies if I offer heterosexual ones? If gay marriage is the law of the land then I would have to if it were not for this law. I truly doubt whether some restaurant is going to say gays can't eat there. For one thing how can you know if a person is gay for sure? You can't, so I see all this ruckus as a way for the liberals to inflame their base for the next election.
 
nonsense

There is absolutely no reason why, if gay marriage were legalized nationwide, you would have to perform gay marriages. Are Catholic priests required to marry to non-Catholics? Of course not. Can a Christian or Muslim go to the local synagogue and demand that the rabbi perform their marriage ceremony in the synagogue? Of course not. And it has nothing to do with this law, or any other law at the federal or state level. Period. End of story.

So please stop spreading a lot of crap like this, as it's pure nonsense.

As for your restaurant question, that's also equally stupid. Sure, in a lot of instances one cannot know if someone is gay. But that is certainly no always the case. Not by a longshot. Then again, there are certainly a lot of gay couples who are not comfortable displaying their affection of one another (e.g., by holding hands) simply because there are people like you who would be aghast at the sight of a gay couple out in public.
 
Why would that be awesome?

The morality/bogotry angle is totally a faction by those who do not approve of RFRA. The financial disaster comes from ignorance; not from knowledge. It is more like superstiction than factual. It is emotionalism. It has all the creditibility of "hands up don't shoot".
 
Just . . . ahem . . . . ."clarifying" for you Zeke

Your responded with a post about religious boycotts. I'm trying to keep you focused on conservative poltical boycots.
 
I don't understand

RFRA does not prohibit Unitarians from performing same sex marriages.

It would protect those who do not wish to personally participate in a same sex marriage. That could be a Unitarian, a Catholic or Muslim.
 
I do get the difference but

As Marvin mentioned, in most people's minds they are one and the same. I don't recall , before this little misadventure, too many elected Democrats calling for boycotts either. Both parties have their mouthpieces do that job.
 
and chuches have no power to take anything

from you against your will under threat of prison and pistol.

not apple to apple comparison. You are talking about a single individual with the purse and power of the government making something happen vs. a powerless suggestion that preachers hope will be acted upon.
 
I have read it, and found the federal version - Clinton era

It reads very much like the federal law that Bill Clinton signed. Was Clinton anti-gay too? I think that is the issue. Time has passed and the wording isn't clear enough for today's society. Point out where the law says that it overrides the anti-discrimination laws already part of Indiana law? Why is it just gays that it is supposed to discriminate against? What about other groups? Why aren't they mentioned?

The law provides protection against government action that is a burden to religious groups. Forget that it might help Christians. It will help Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, and Atheists (if that is considered a religion). Does that help? Any time religion, or Christianity is mentioned, liberals get nervous.

I don't understand Christianphobia. There, I created a word. Definition: Unnecessary fear of Christians.
 
do you preform marriages for people who have been divorced?


just wondering what is your stance on re-marriage? certainly the law in Indiana allows people to re-marry however Jesus took a different view as in Mark1:1-12. Also you know no one can force you to marry anyone that is a b.s. argument and you know it
This post was edited on 3/30 2:06 PM by hoosierfan87
 
Explain how it goes further?

Are you referring to allowing the use of the word "corporation" instead of using entities in the federal version. This is to cover a Hobby Lobby or other incorporated religious company that is subjected to something like a provision in ACA that violates their doctrine. How is that difference embarrassing?

Maybe it is the use of the word "likely" when describing the burden a religious group might suffer from a government action? In other words, you don't have to wait for ACA or another act to take effect before suing. Embarrassing?

These are the differences between the Indiana law and the federal law that has been in existence for 20 years.

Its embarrassing because people have told you it is embarrassing.
 
Easy answer

For a long time Catholics and Muslims, to name the two groups you did, have told Unitarians they cannot legally marry gays. Was that not a violation of the rights of Unitarians? How many people screaming religious liberty today sided with the Unitarians on that? I'm just pointing out this wasn't a consideration until the ox's horns changed direction. If religious freedom is so important, why didn't the Unitarians have it before Judge Posner?

Let me ask this about RFRA, it goes to something Utah put in their bill. If a gay couple go to the courthouse to get married, is there anything in RFRA that applies to the people who conduct civil ceremonies? in other words, will RFRA embolden a public servant to say "nope, I cannot do that"? I ask because Utah specifically wrote in their bill that a servant can refuse but all courthouses must have available during all business hours someone capable of marrying said couple. My first choice would be to get people into the 21st century, but I'll take that compromise (others here may not).

10 years ago if religious conservatives had come forward with the concept of "we'll give in on the ban if we can have freedom to choose to participate", I'll bet it would have been taken. Rather they wait until the war is lost and then ask to dictate the terms of surrender.

I will differ from many on my side here, even after all the rhetoric. I will remind you I am not a lawyer, so don't parse the terms used as if a lawyer wrote it. If a substitute to a florist/baker can be found that places no undue burden on the customer, I'm fine with that. I know many of my allies will not agree. Just telling a couple to go away isn't going to cut it for me. If the baker can have an arrangement with a nearby baker who will work, I have no problems with baker 1 saying "I am sorry but I cannot be your baker, I will take you order exactly as if I were and submit it to baker 2 who will then work with you". In a town like Bloomington, Columbus, Kokomo, Terre Haute; I have no real problem with the concept. It isn't my first choice, but it comes closest to everyone getting what they want. I have no idea what to do if the wedding is in Brownstown and the Brownstown, Seymour, and Bedford bakeries all say no. Suddenly we have a burden.

As much as I have complained about this law, I realize you are somewhat correct in its impact. I do think it was written "poorly" or "broadly", take you pick, in the hopes that some judge somewhere will read the intent they want. Until judges actually decide what this thing says, we can argue all day long about its application to civil cases. But the fact that this is the first law passed after a NM case that said RFRA did not apply to civil cases (in that state but it made news nationwide for that) makes that paragraph not seem completely innocuous. Maybe no judge in Indiana would possibly read it that way. But then I don't see how anyone decided Dred Scott made sense either. At a minimum it is in there to cause confusion.

I miss Mitch Daniels. I don't know what may have been different with this law but I can't help but think it would have been handled better.
 
I don't see much of a difference.

Laws prohibiting discrimination against protected classes have universally been held as advancing a vital public interest. So RFRA is subordinated by its terms. I don't think Indiana is different. Once again, there was a need for federal RFRA. State ones are mostly bumper stickers as is Indiana's and the suggested "clarification".
 
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