Scouting Report: "the" O$U
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Moral victories are fine as long as they don't replace actual scoreboard victories. We need to win the games we're supposed to, and take our moral victories from the remainder.
They were the better team following the loss of IU's two top skill players, but they won because of the reasons I posted. There is no objective debate on that.
They were the better team even if Sudfeldn and Howard play the entire game. There's no football debate that Ohio State was better. IU played great but Ohio State was the superior team. And the refs had nothing to do with it.
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Last week all of the analysis in the world could not have convinced me that IU could play Michigan State straight up. But then I saw the game and I am convinced that IU on a neutral field is probably even with MS.
I hope to be pleasantly shocked next Saturday. Every team has up weeks and down weeks. That is why they play the game.
I hope to be pleasantly shocked next Saturday. Every team has up weeks and down weeks. That is why they play the game.
Your first point is subjective and I can entertain that idea, they certainly were deeper as always. Your second point is not subjective as there is video evidence. But believe what you want Bucky, it matters not to me.
I agree with some of your post. While BGSU, Rutgers, and Tulsa, aren't going to any New Years Day Bowls this year, Ohio State hasn't just beaten those teams, they routed them. Tough to say where Oklahoma fits into things. If they didn't play a Tom Herman led Houston or OSU, and played a more traditional pre-season, they would be 3-1 at worse and likely 4-0 at this point. Either way, OSU did the only thing they could.
But it is a young team and as you say defensive resistance may put the breaks on this offense. With another QB I would worry more. But JT isn't likely to be intimidated and even if frustrated, he has a tendency to make the winning play when needed the most.
I always think a loss is possible because it is and we've seen close games before. The Buckeyes in part because of their youth will have a let down this year which could cause them to falter. I think it will come later in the season but if it does happen this weekend, IU will have a chance.
Food for thought. O$U has played BGSU, Tulsa, Oklahoma and Rutgers.
1. BGSG is 1-4, including a 77-3 loss to Memphis
2. Tulsa is bad, a 3-1 record with wins against teams that are 1- 8 against FBS teams.
3. Oklahoma is 2-2 and gave up 46 points in their close win over TCU. OU is giving up 35.3 points a game.
4. Rutgers is 2-3 with wins over Howard and New Mexico (their sole FBS win was over San Jose 1-4). And RU was without their sole good offensive player.
Not exactly murders row, but given OU was a good win. However, as stated above, they have given up points in bunches to everyone and anyone. College football has become a hype machine. Imagine if LSU had this schedule. Most likely they would be 4-0 or maybe 3-1 and they would be in the discussion of a national title (and not a dumpster fire with a fired coach). If you do not like this example fill in ND or FSU. My point is not that O$U is bad, or even mediocre. I am saying they may be over hyped. Remember how good MSU was after they beat ND- #8 in the country. They were exposed by Wisky, and thrown out of the top 25 by the Hoosiers. O$U may be fast, but they are is still young. And in the words of Mickey Andrews one of the greatest defensive coordinators in modern football of his young defense "they are fast, but if they are running in the wrong direction, they are getting in the wrong place fast." Go IU.
1. BGSG is 1-4, including a 77-3 loss to Memphis
2. Tulsa is bad, a 3-1 record with wins against teams that are 1- 8 against FBS teams.
3. Oklahoma is 2-2 and gave up 46 points in their close win over TCU. OU is giving up 35.3 points a game.
4. Rutgers is 2-3 with wins over Howard and New Mexico (their sole FBS win was over San Jose 1-4). And RU was without their sole good offensive player.
Not exactly murders row, but given OU was a good win. However, as stated above, they have given up points in bunches to everyone and anyone. College football has become a hype machine. Imagine if LSU had this schedule. Most likely they would be 4-0 or maybe 3-1 and they would be in the discussion of a national title (and not a dumpster fire with a fired coach). If you do not like this example fill in ND or FSU. My point is not that O$U is bad, or even mediocre. I am saying they may be over hyped. Remember how good MSU was after they beat ND- #8 in the country. They were exposed by Wisky, and thrown out of the top 25 by the Hoosiers. O$U may be fast, but they are is still young. And in the words of Mickey Andrews one of the greatest defensive coordinators in modern football of his young defense "they are fast, but if they are running in the wrong direction, they are getting in the wrong place fast." Go IU.
MSU struggled with Furman and LSU until last weekend didn't look good against anyone.
While OSU's opponents haven't been great (Oklahoma is much better than Wake) they have beat them bad, very bad. I'd love to find a silver lining too but to suggest they are overrated is foolish. A roster filled with 4 and 5 stars will do that, regardless of experience.
While OSU's opponents haven't been great (Oklahoma is much better than Wake) they have beat them bad, very bad. I'd love to find a silver lining too but to suggest they are overrated is foolish. A roster filled with 4 and 5 stars will do that, regardless of experience.
This is just pure...unadulterated...bullshit.
How little he's done with that talent? A National Title doesn't meet your standards I guess. Thank God you aren't my boss...
You were there in 87 and 88? Good for you! We'll see what happens this year; I hope that we were able to prepare for Indiana this year.
Wow. You are really making me dislike Indiana! Not for believing you can win, every team should. But the way you attempt to disregard what this team has accomplished it just amazing. You really think Ohio State needs the refs to beat Indiana? Now you sound like Penn St. In fact, the more I read it seems that you have to be joking or trolling. That's what it is...I apologize to actual Indiana fans.
Overhyped? Depends on your definition of overhype. What I hear both nationally and locally is that "this is a talented team- which makes sense if you believe in recruiting rankings even a little bit, and young. So far they've looked good." No one is giving them the best team in the land by far as they were before the start of last season. Overall it seems like a fair assessment.
They were probably ranked where they were at the beginning of the season because despite the youth and inexperience, they had Barrett returning at QB and Myer as coach. MSU also had a lot of losses on the roster including QB, but while their talent has certainly taken an upswing the past several years, there were still more players you would hope to develop beyond their rankings, than on the Buckeye roster. Dantonio is a fantastic coach, but Myer because of his upside record, gets more respect. So the likelyhood that MSU was overhyped was greater.
I wish the Buckeyes were still ranked 4-6 rather than number two but teams in front of them lost. Based on that I think OSU is a legitimate number two, but it isn't out of the realm of possibility that the difference between number two and number 15 isn't as big a gap as it was last year at this time.
Looking at the above post I am moved to point out to the original poster that Urban Meyer's record at Ohio State is 54-4.
I suggest you take your scarlet and grey Carhartts off, find a friend who knows the rules and then watch the final play of last year's game.
Shouldn't we critique every play if we're going to cry about the officiating?
He is great at choosing where he coaches. No one picks his spots better than Urban. Even the Utah team he inherited was loaded. Florida was loaded, when Florida dried up talent-wise, he bailed. He is best at finding programs ready to take off, I will give him that. His only real coaching was Bowling Green, there he didn't have a recruiting advantage (He never recruited Utah, he was there for two years and bolted).
He didn't recruit at Florida? He hasn't recruited at OSU? He didn't recruit that #3 ranked class or the #2 class next year?
I agree he's been at good programs, but what top coach hasn't been? And plenty of coaches struggle at top programs. The bottom line is he's one of the best ever. You don't have to like the guy to acknowledge he's good.
How tough is it to recruit OSU or Florida? Look at what he did to the Florida roster? When it was empty, he bolted.
I agree that he will go down as one of the best ever, but there are few "best ever coaches" that went to unsuccessful programs and built them to winners. He is not in Bowden's class, Bowden built a nothing school into a power. Most go to recruiting football factories and have a built in advantage. Even guys like Kelly at Oregon, Snyder at KSU, Schnellenberger at Miami, they built from nothing. Meyer is like Parsegian, Holtz, Stoops, Carrol they did it at powers with built in advantages. Meyer will only go somewhere that he has an advantage, hard to respect him for that.
But, you can worship the guy all you like. Just don't tell me how hard it is to recruit at Ohio State and Florida.
Harbaugh is the exact opposite! He went to nothing San Diego and a down Stanford and built winners. He went to the NFL and won. I have zero trouble giving credit to Harbaugh, he can outright coach and recruit. IMO, Meyer can't hold Harbaugh's jock strap in terms of building a program or coaching. We will see.
Oh, they definitely needed the refs to win last year.
There was clear Pass Interference - the DB's arm is completely around the WR's waist to get leverage. There is a pic, if I can find it.
I'm not saying IU was the better team or that O$U is overrated or any of that - but to say O$U didn't need the refs' help to win last year is just not factually accurate.
No, we shouldn't. Not every play decides the game. Not every play had such a blatant PI committed. In the end zone. On the last play of the game.
It's OK to admit you got a little lucky - we got real lucky against MSU. But let's not act like that uncalled penalty had nothing to do with the outcome.
Ohio State won the national title that way on a "fictional" PI in the end zone against Miami
You haven't been here much then.
Urban Meyer is, quite possibly, the most hated coach in America (not to me - I think he's a good coach who puts himself in fantastic situations). He bailed out of Florida when it got heated down there. Oh, such stress! Yet, here he is again. The man knows when to get out and O$U shouldn't be surprised if he bails on them at some point.
I sure wouldn't put Parsegian in that category. He earned his stripes at Northwestern - not an easy thing to do at that time.
Enough already. IU's receiver had already stepped out of bounds. He became an ineligible receiver when that happened. You cannot interfere with an ineligible receiver. Game over.
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No respect because he was offered and accepted jobs at historically successful schools? Wow.
After Rich Brooks got it started. And Pete Carroll didn't take over a juggernaut at USC, either. And Meyer came to OSU on the heels of scandal under JT. And Holtz replaced the legendary Gerry Faust. Lots of foggy memories here.
Plenty of uncalled penalties throughout a game. Never had any time for crying about them after the fact.
You can say that about 10-15 programs at least. How has it worked out for most coaches at those programs? How many of them have won 3 titles by age 52? None of the coaches you listed are in Urban's class.
So by your standards you want him to leave OSU to go to a program like IU or Kansas just to prove he can build a program from scratch? I don't think any coach in history would've ever done that. And by the way, I have no doubt he'd be competing for titles in 3-5 years if he coached at IU. The guy is that good.
I said no one picked where they went better than Urban. He would never chose to go to a struggling program, that is why he has 3 championships. Sorry I disagree with you, I think his level of success is more where he coached than what he coached.
No one would choose to go to a struggling program unless they had no other options (see Kevin Wilson). Meyer can hardly be blamed for doing what anyone else would do in similar circumstances.
When Terry Hoeppner arrived at IU attendance was less than 25,000 a game. I would say the Coach Hoeppner tried to build a program from scratch. But unfortunately he was only granted two years. And 10 years later people appreciate the enthusiasm and passion he restored to the program.
Terry Hoeppner had the experience and the passion to make IU a legitimate Big 10 contender. Nobody could have done a better job than he did during those 2 years. Not Lou Holz. Not Nick Saban. Not Urban Meyer.
Terry Hoeppner had the experience and the passion to make IU a legitimate Big 10 contender. Nobody could have done a better job than he did during those 2 years. Not Lou Holz. Not Nick Saban. Not Urban Meyer.
All those schools have the infrastructure in place to win big, quick. As opposed to a Kentucky, IU or Rutgers.
Also, look at the rosters those guys inherited, Faust was a terrible College coach but a good recruiter. OSU was rolling under Tressel, that scandal was a hiccup. Also, check out the roster at USC in Carrol's first year! Look below, these are the NFL players on Pete Carrol's first USC team (he inherited) and went 6-6 before going on a tear.
How about the OSC team Meyer inherited? Looks to be close to 15 that were drafted, not including free agents. Yeah, it is all coaching.
I understand the envy some fans have toward Urban Meyer. It's human nature I guess. But anyone who tries to sell the notion that Urban Meyer is not one of the top two coaches in the game is a fool. Yes tOSU is certainly much easier to recruit to than IU. But nobody has ever recruited to tOSU like Meyer is. He also knows what to do with that talent. He is 54-4 and has not yet lost a road game. Good luck this Saturday. I believe the current streak is 20 games. This team has not yet played down to their opponent. Could they? Sure but I don't see that happening Saturday.
If coaching wasn't very important, the previous coaches wouldn't have lost their jobs. There's a reason why the new guys win and the old guys didn't. Great coaching. Urban is an outstanding coach. His track record confirms it.
Players win in college, recruiting allows for a great talent disparity. Old coaches usually pay the bills for the new guy who gets credit for the player maturity.
By the way, Tressel was 94 - 22 with 6 conference championships, a National Championship, and went to 2 others in his 10 years. For the last 5 years he was 55 - 10. C'mon, to say that Meyer has created something at OSU is ridiculous. OSU has been at this level for a decade. Meyer took over as they were hitting their stride.
And Meyer made it even better. And check out the records of the guys who preceded Carroll and Holtz. It blows your argument apart.
