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Russia-Ukraine war has begun

I'm not a boomer, but I am just barely old enough to have drills and warnings in school about the evil empire.

I don't know how I'm being unclear here. I'm not proposing laying down for the man. I'm just pointing out that standing up to him could get us all blown up, and that's a real possibility that we need to plan for, and make a part of our strategy.
Yep.... if nuclear weapons start flying nobody wins except China who will sit back and watch us destroy each other.
 
If we militarily respond in Russia, we risk escalating a nuclear conflict.
So the hawk in me says to respond to a tactical nuclear strike with one of our own. That could escalate rather quickly and really I think the Europeans might be a problem there. With tactical nukes being exchanged, I would think Berlin in particular might be a bit squeamish with that response.

So my ante would be to overrun Kaliningrad. Remove that piece of Russia from the NATO rear. Invade, demand the military there throw down their weapons and let them March back to Russia unmolested, or be destroyed.

It is a forceful but measured response that would be a territorial and strategic loss for the Russians. I would probably also start to supply the Ukrainians with conventional medium range ballistic missiles. If Moscow is going to use tactical nukes against the Ukrainians, then Moscow should face some conventional strikes to terrorize its populace as well....
 
Ennnhhhhh . . . I'm not so sure about this statement. There've been strong rumors the man is sick and might not survive anyway . . . what makes us think he's rational in the sense that westerners would use it?

Nothing about the war in Ukraine is rational, is it?
I’m sure he thought it was rational at the start. He probably thought his military was much more capable than it actually was.
 
So the hawk in me says to respond to a tactical nuclear strike with one of our own. That could escalate rather quickly and really I think the Europeans might be a problem there. With tactical nukes being exchanged, I would think Berlin in particular might be a bit squeamish with that response.

So my ante would be to overrun Kaliningrad. Remove that piece of Russia from the NATO rear. Invade, demand the military there throw down their weapons and let them March back to Russia unmolested, or be destroyed.

It is a forceful but measured response that would be a territorial and strategic loss for the Russians. I would probably also start to supply the Ukrainians with conventional medium range ballistic missiles. If Moscow is going to use tactical nukes against the Ukrainians, then Moscow should face some conventional strikes to terrorize its populace as well....
Seizing Russian territory would escalate this thing to a point where we don't want to go.

As long as they keep any nukes within Ukraine, use air power to clear the skies over Ukraine and bomb the hell out of their fixed locations. Or, as I mentioned earlier, I hope we're training Ukranian pilots on F-16s so we can send a boatload to them and let the Ukranian's do it.

This is the playbook for proxy wars. Using tactical nukes would kill as many Russian troops as Ukranian, assuming they use it in combat areas. If they set off a nuke in the western part, that would change the calculus some.
 
Seizing Russian territory would escalate this thing to a point where we don't want to go.

As long as they keep any nukes within Ukraine, use air power to clear the skies over Ukraine and bomb the hell out of their fixed locations. Or, as I mentioned earlier, I hope we're training Ukranian pilots on F-16s so we can send a boatload to them and let the Ukranian's do it.

This is the playbook for proxy wars. Using tactical nukes would kill as many Russian troops as Ukranian, assuming they use it in combat areas. If they set off a nuke in the western part, that would change the calculus some.
They have said they would respond to us with nukes if we get involved at all. If I am taking that risk, I am doing more than launching airstrikes in Ukraine. If they are willing to light off any nuclear weapon, we have to be willing to push really far conventionally. And Kaliningrad was only ceded to the Soviets after WW2. It was German before that. It is also their only port in the Baltic that does not ice over.

If I were them I would be inclined to light off another nuclear weapon if the only response was to bomb their fixed locations in Ukraine.
 
So the hawk in me says to respond to a tactical nuclear strike with one of our own. That could escalate rather quickly and really I think the Europeans might be a problem there. With tactical nukes being exchanged, I would think Berlin in particular might be a bit squeamish with that response.

So my ante would be to overrun Kaliningrad. Remove that piece of Russia from the NATO rear. Invade, demand the military there throw down their weapons and let them March back to Russia unmolested, or be destroyed.

It is a forceful but measured response that would be a territorial and strategic loss for the Russians. I would probably also start to supply the Ukrainians with conventional medium range ballistic missiles. If Moscow is going to use tactical nukes against the Ukrainians, then Moscow should face some conventional strikes to terrorize its populace as well....
A company of Rangers could seize Kaliningrad based on what I’ve seen of the Russian military capabilities.
 
A company of Rangers could seize Kaliningrad based on what I’ve seen of the Russian military capabilities.
I am not even really interested in killing them, just put down your weapons and leave please. I am not convinced they would even be willing to stand and fight a NATO opponent right now.
 
They have said they would respond to us with nukes if we get involved at all. If I am taking that risk, I am doing more than launching airstrikes in Ukraine. If they are willing to light off any nuclear weapon, we have to be willing to push really far conventionally. And Kaliningrad was only ceded to the Soviets after WW2. It was German before that. It is also their only port in the Baltic that does not ice over.

If I were them I would be inclined to light off another nuclear weapon if the only response was to bomb their fixed locations in Ukraine.
They could make the same argument about Ukraine - it was Russian until the 1990s.

We're already involved and they haven't nuked us. Sending F-16s to Ukrainians isn't anything different than we've been doing. I'd rather the Ukrainians do it, but if we have to use American pilots, it wouldn't be any different than Russia flying combat ops in Viet Nam - which they did. The Chinese did in Korea, too. As I said, this the way proxy wars are fought.

If we take out their fixed locations, they would know they've lost for sure. And Russia proper would be next if they try any more shit.

I'm sure the Pentagon has this planned out. I just don't see us grabbing any Russian territory unless they strike other NATO countries or the US itself.
 
I am not even really interested in killing them, just put down your weapons and leave please. I am not convinced they would even be willing to stand and fight a NATO opponent right now.
In military terms, Seize does not have to mean killing. The term for that is Destroy.
 
I am not even really interested in killing them, just put down your weapons and leave please. I am not convinced they would even be willing to stand and fight a NATO opponent right now.
They're not going to just let us walk in. Killing is part of the game.
 
In military terms, Seize does not have to mean killing. The term for that is Destroy.
Yeah I know, but I think if you roll tanks in there without the understanding that they are leaving, there will be destroying that occurs. 😉

I am mainly saying to give them a chance to bug out first. If they didn't, you would be derelict if you did not bomb them first.
 
They're not going to just let us walk in. Killing is part of the game.
I think Russia is on the brink of being a failed state. If nuclear weapons are let off, I am not wholly convinced that their military is going to be fully on board with going down with Putin.
 
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I think Russia is on the brink of being a failed state. If nuclear weapons are let off, I am not wholly convinced that their military is going to be fully on board with going down with Putin.
No, I'm not, either. I think someone in their command will either ignore or countermand an order to fire off a nuke.

Rest assured, we know when a nuke is about to be set off. I don't know the plans in that situation, but I would imagine we would do our best to make sure that didn't happen.
 
I think Russia is on the brink of being a failed state. If nuclear weapons are let off, I am not wholly convinced that their military is going to be fully on board with going down with Putin.
I said it way-back-when in this thread but I’ll say/rephrase again:
  • I suspect Russia does not have the same controls and segregation of responsibilities to launch that we have here
  • It only takes a couple of henchmen with guns to the head of the “approvers’ kids heads” for them to approve a launch - it doesn’t take Russian patriots to do it
 
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I said it way-back-when in this thread but I’ll say/rephrase again:
  • I suspect Russia does not have the same controls and segregation of responsibilities to launch that we have here
  • It only takes a couple of henchmen with guns to the head of the “approvers’ kids heads” for them to approve a launch - it doesn’t take Russian patriots to do it
That’s scary
 
I said it way-back-when in this thread but I’ll say/rephrase again:
  • I suspect Russia does not have the same controls and segregation of responsibilities to launch that we have here
  • It only takes a couple of henchmen with guns to the head of the “approvers’ kids heads” for them to approve a launch - it doesn’t take Russian patriots to do it
No, for sure. No argument there. I am saying after that hypothetical scenario occurs, I think that there would possibly be many Russian units who would be willing to just surrender as opposed to die for Putin at that point.
 
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No, for sure. No argument there. I am saying after that hypothetical scenario occurs, I think that there would possibly be many Russian units who would be willing to just surrender as opposed to die for Putin at that point.
Ukraine has dropped leaflets on Russian positions, telling them how to surrender.

With all these newbies coming online with little training, I can see that happening.
 
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A company of Rangers could seize Kaliningrad based on what I’ve seen of the Russian military capabilities.

While it is clear Russia's army has sucked, they did against Finland in 39-40. They got their act together against the Germans. I suspect today's Russian army would fight a lot harder against foreign invaders than as a foreign invader.

I think that is part of why Putin wants the areas annexed.
 
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I"m sure that was very scary for you, DANC.

But I laid awake plenty of nights scared to death of dying in a nuclear blast from the Russians and the end of all life as we know it. Watch The Day After when you are 11 years old and you certainly "know the feeling" of the threat of nuclear war. Listen to and read talking heads telling you how that crazy, senile, cowboy, war-monger Reagan is going to kill us all. I remember it well.
I remember doing the duck under the desk drill in grade school a couple times.
 
While it is clear Russia's army has sucked, they did against Finland in 39-40. They got their act together against the Germans. I suspect today's Russian army would fight a lot harder against foreign invaders than as a foreign invader.

I think that is part of why Putin wants the areas annexed.
I doubt Russian soldiers will view former Ukrainian provinces in the same light as Mother Russia.
It doesn’t have the cache as the Stalingrad tractor factory.
 
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Not looking good.

Video of Russian soldiers supposedly telling presumed recruits that while the military provides military things, like guns and armour, they have to provide everything else, like sleeping bags and medicine and first aid.
He tells them first aid kits are sold out everywhere and to check the cars of friends and relatives. He then tells them to contact female family members for pads and tampons, implying those are sold out too, to use on wounds.


If true; it's fantastic news, indicating that the sanctions are having a big effect on their ability to wage war. They were making a lot of money from the Europeans esp Germans, but it seems they can't get what they need despite that.

A Russian buddy of mine told me that even in pre-invasion times, Russian soldiers were forced to buy not only everyday stuff but things like military boots, winter/summer uniforms etc.

And if a system doesn’t work during peace, it's most unlikely to now -- esp when you have an additional 300k (or a million?) forced conscripts coming through the pipeline ASAP.


Beginning of the end?
 
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Not looking good.

Video of Russian soldiers supposedly telling presumed recruits that while the military provides military things, like guns and armour, they have to provide everything else, like sleeping bags and medicine and first aid.
He tells them first aid kits are sold out everywhere and to check the cars of friends and relatives. He then tells them to contact female family members for pads and tampons, implying those are sold out too, to use on wounds.


If true; it's fantastic news, indicating that the sanctions are having a big effect on their ability to wage war. They were making a lot of money from the Europeans esp Germans, but it seems they can't get what they need despite that.

A Russian buddy of mine told me that even in pre-invasion times, Russian soldiers were forced to buy not only everyday stuff but things like military boots, winter/summer uniforms etc.

And if a system doesn’t work during peace, it's most unlikely to now -- esp when you have an additional 300k (or a million?) forced conscripts coming through the pipeline ASAP.


Beginning of the end?

Dear Vlad,

We are offering you this unique opportunity to retire to one of our elite one-room condominiums. All meals and utilities are covered. This unique opportunity awaits your response.

Sincerely,

The Hague
 
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Dear Vlad,

We are offering you this unique opportunity to retire to one of our elite one-room condominiums. All meals and utilities are covered. This unique opportunity awaits your response.

Sincerely,

The Hague

Not just for this but for the elimination of his political opponents.

 
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Madness.



There have been some horrific images from this war, but this is almost as heartbreaking. That old man looking at his rifle might end up dead in some ditch somewhere in Ukraine.

What a monumental waste of real lives because of the actions of a deranged idiot.
Putin is basically holding an entire nation hostage in order to preserve his own life.
 
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Russia is calling up 300,000 reserves. Assuming all are used in Ukraine, this is a 150% increase. Ukraine has no effective counter. Barring a lot of foreigners wanting to go, Ukraine is tapped out.

On the more positive side, those 300,000 are mostly leaving jobs. This is bound to impact the Russian economy. Chances are their morale will not be the best, they were quite probably happy to be civilians or they would have volunteered. Also Russia will struggle to supply them. Yes, undoubtedly many will be working in supply the fact is Russia has had a shortage of dependable trucks and equipment. The Russian army isn't built to survive on supplies hand carried like the North Vietnamese Army was.
I read where Finland was considering closing its borders to Russians…not sure if it happened
 
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