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Romeos choice should be easy.

Wait, you’re saying that the 3 senior starters obviously aren’t very good. OK. Then that means the players currently on the roster that can’t beat them out are even worse. Correct? There's not much of a chance that adding 2 5*s will make that roster close to the top 25. Sounds more like a .500 team to me. Which in all fairness would be a huge upgrade over this years Vandy team that sucks balls. We definitely disagree.
You make a lot of sense here.

Edit: Adding 2 transcendent 5*s might make a difference. But while Garland and Shittu are both really good players, neither is that type of player. Romeo is borderline transcendent, but really needs to get a lot stronger to be that kind of guy.

Nevertheless, your point is still valid. Adding Garland and Shittu alone to the other recruit and this years leftovers isn’t likely to be a tournament team. Could happen, but odds are against it.
 
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Kansas has had some shady recruitments..Darrel Arthur comes to mind and the 5 Star from Chicago..Alexander maybe
Arthur (nickname slim shady) wasn't no different
than any other 5 star at that time. BTW CMD could
have had him at IU, but this board ran him off to
go sign with self. What about Vonleh a Johnson
recruit, I guess he was absolutely clean?
 
Need to call you out for a reality check here with the definition of 'stud'...Saben Lee averages 11 points and was ranked lower in his class than Phinisee...doing it against arguably lesser talent.

I don't know who that is but Vandy has played the 3rd toughest schedule in the country, so unless Phinisee has done it against the 2nd or 1st toughest schedule, that is a pretty ridiculous statement.

Saben got into foul trouble early last night and ended up with zero points or assists, so he's definitely not a slam dunk hall of famer! Saben has to develop a jumper and until he does, he will occasionally get shut down.
 
Eric Bossi says he leans toward Vanderbilt as the favorite here (and predicts "Vanderbilt, barely"). He does say that Archie is playing "catch up." I don't understand how the in-state big school coach has to play catch-up in building a relationship with a player who is so good that he won Indiana's 2018 Mr. Basketball back in 2017.

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals...omeo-langford-anfernee-simons-emmitt-williams
Because Archie has only been on the job for a few months and coaches usually start recruiting kids by their sophomore year.
 
When grammar goes wrong...
That is what the post he was responding on was alluding to - IU has less blacks, so an American-American might not be as "comfortable" there. And what part of Bill Garrett matriculating to IU BEFORE Perry Wallace was even born was incorrect?

You, KyDore and Jemulz are something else . . . you all still want to talk about Bryce Drew's going to the NCAA's, compared to Archie? Jemulz won't talk about it - what about the rest of you Opryhoppers?

EDIT: C’mon @jemulz - I thought you wanted to talk about your boy Drew and how his post-season success isn’t “far surpassed” by Archie? Why is all we’re hearing now is crickets?
 
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That is what the post he was responding on was alluding to - IU has less blacks, so an American-American might not be as "comfortable" there. And what part of Bill Garrett matriculating to IU BEFORE Perry Wallace was even born was incorrect?

You, KyDore and Jemulz are something else . . . you all still want to talk about Bryce Drew's going to the NCAA's, compared to Archie? Jemulz won't talk about it - what about the rest of you Opryhoppers?

He is attacking my attempt to talk like a dumb racist hick as bad grammar. Apparently that went over his head.

None of the Vanderbilt fans want to touch the racial component because the Big Ten was light years ahead of the SEC. People from the former Confederacy touting their race record live in glass houses.
 
He is attacking my attempt to talk like a dumb racist hick as bad grammar. Apparently that went over his head.

None of the Vanderbilt fans want to touch the racial component because the Big Ten was light years ahead of the SEC. People from the former Confederacy touting their race record live in glass houses.
NFS
 
Because Archie has only been on the job for a few months and coaches usually start recruiting kids by their sophomore year.

That makes sense and is probably why Romeo recently described Bryce Drew as "calm" while describing Archie as "aggressive." We understand that Romeo is a calm sort of guy.

Bryce seems like a special guy ..... former Indiana Mr. Basketball .. three heart surgeries .. doesn't curse ... calm .... seems to be a player's coach ... the kind of coach who rolls the ball out there and let's a guy like Romeo (and Darrius Garland, Simi Shittu and maybe even E J Montgomery) do their things ... what a fun season next year has the potential to be in Nashville. A simple truth, I respectfully suggest, is a lot to like about Vandy and Nashville ... I again reiterate that it is not as easy a choice as the OP suggests and that is the reason for my several posts. I appreciate the several posters who've agreed that it isn't an easily choice.
 
That makes sense and is probably why Romeo recently described Bryce Drew as "calm" while describing Archie as "aggressive." We understand that Romeo is a calm sort of guy.

Bryce seems like a special guy ..... former Indiana Mr. Basketball .. three heart surgeries .. doesn't curse ... calm .... seems to be a player's coach ... the kind of coach who rolls the ball out there and let's a guy like Romeo (and Darrius Garland, Simi Shittu and maybe even E J Montgomery) do their things ... what a fun season next year has the potential to be in Nashville. A simple truth, I respectfully suggest, is a lot to like about Vandy and Nashville ... I again reiterate that it is not as easy a choice as the OP suggests and that is the reason for my several posts. I appreciate the several posters who've agreed that it isn't an easily choice.
Easy choice: IU > Vanderbilt
 
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Let’s put this to rest….comparing schools solely on head to head is dumb. IU has defeated UK 2 of the last 3 meetings but it’s not like we’re claiming to be UK basketball good. Let’s OBJECTIVELY compare programs…


Both started in 1901, so we can’t talk about one team having more time to accomplish anything.


Total wins: IU #11 overall (1,801) vs Vandy #48 (1,585)

Win percentage: IU (.639) vs Vandy (.585)

National Championships: IU (5) vs Vandy (0)

NCAA Tournament Appearances: IU (39) vs Vandy (15)

Last Tourny Bid: IU (2016) vs Vandy (2017)

Last Tourny Win: IU (2016) vs Vandy (2012)

Last Sweet 16 & Total: IU (2016, 22 overall) vs Vandy (2007, 6 overall)

Last Elite 8 & Total: IU (2002, 11) vs Vandy (1965, 1 overall)

Last Final 4 & Total: IU (2002, 8 overall) vs Vandy (0)

Last Naty Game & Total: IU (2002, 6 total) vs Vandy (Never)

Regular Season Conference Titles: IU (22) vs Vandy (3)

Last Regular Season Conference Title: IU (2016) vs Vandy (1993)

Last #1 AP Ranking: IU (2012) vs Vandy (Never)

Last Top Ten AP Ranking: IU (2016) vs Vandy (1992)

Last AP Ranking: IU (2017) vs Vandy (2016)

Most active NBA Players: IU (8) vs Vandy (3)

Total NBA players All Time: IU (63) vs Vandy (23)


Sounds to me like Vandy fans just don’t want to pay attention to the facts…..
That's shocking! I didn't know Vandy had 3 active NBA players. ;)
 
None of the Vanderbilt fans want to touch the racial component because the Big Ten was light years ahead of the SEC. People from the former Confederacy touting their race record live in glass houses.

Being on the leading edge of inclusiveness is the hallmark of today's Vanderbilt. To your point, here's this month's news as to what is inside Vanderbilt's glass house ....... please take a peek:

https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2018/01...sity-to-launch-center-for-sports-and-society/

As further evidence of inclusiveness, Vanderbilt's athletic director is an African American reportedly earning $3.23MM per year which is by far the most of any athletic director. IU evidently values its athletic director at $431k which is #59 in the country. Vandy walks the walk when it comes to diversity and inclusiveness ... I think that is inarguable.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/all/director
 
Being on the leading edge of inclusiveness is the hallmark of today's Vanderbilt. To your point, here's this month's news as to what is inside Vanderbilt's glass house ....... please take a peek:

https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2018/01...sity-to-launch-center-for-sports-and-society/

As further evidence of inclusiveness, Vanderbilt's athletic director is an African American reportedly earning $3.23MM per year which is by far the most of any athletic director. IU evidently values its athletic director at $431k which is #59 in the country. Vandy walks the walk when it comes to diversity and inclusiveness ... I think that is inarguable.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/all/director
You would understand the "value" of our AD if you really knew some of his decisions regarding bball coaching hires. He gave us Tom Crean for a decade. That in itself should explain his low salary.
 
Being on the leading edge of inclusiveness is the hallmark of today's Vanderbilt. To your point, here's this month's news as to what is inside Vanderbilt's glass house ....... please take a peek:

https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2018/01...sity-to-launch-center-for-sports-and-society/

As further evidence of inclusiveness, Vanderbilt's athletic director is an African American reportedly earning $3.23MM per year which is by far the most of any athletic director. IU evidently values its athletic director at $431k which is #59 in the country. Vandy walks the walk when it comes to diversity and inclusiveness ... I think that is inarguable.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/all/director
Your "diversity" argument is just drivel and pathetic straw clutching. Romeo lives in a racially diverse community and attends a racially diverse high school. IU has a racially diverse campus and like most major universities a strong minority presence in its athletic programs (where most socialization with student-athletes happens). I'm sure Vanderbilt does as well.

Trying to make an argument that Romeo might choose Vanderbilt over IU because its a bit "blacker" is just f#$king stupid and insulting to the kid. I have no idea which school he might choose and there could be a hundred different reasons he might prefer one over the other but to suggest that this might be a scale-tipper is absurd.

The kid is free to make his choice. He needs to go where he thinks the fit is best. I wish him the best of luck wherever because by all accounts he is a terrific kid. I hope he chooses IU for selfish reasons but if he does not, I won't lose sleep or bash the kid.

By resorting to moronic arguments like this and lowering yourself to using subtle insults you are doing exactly what you are protesting that others on this thread are doing.

Here's a suggestion. Why don't you shut up and go away until Romeo makes a decision. If he chooses Vandy, come back and gloat. If not, just stay gone (which I suspect you would do anyway). Every time you add another post, you drift a little further into left field.
 
He is attacking my attempt to talk like a dumb racist hick as bad grammar. Apparently that went over his head.

None of the Vanderbilt fans want to touch the racial component because the Big Ten was light years ahead of the SEC. People from the former Confederacy touting their race record live in glass houses.

Holy cow, you really don't understand???

Is there an IU fan on here that understands comma placement and can explain to @IUCrazy2 tried to call VU racist hick but because of his poor grammar, actually called IU racist hicks?
 
Lord have mercy, you really are dumb. Context matters..."Even us dumb racist hicks have that figured out y'all...."

lets-eat-grandma-lets-eat-grandma-punctuation-saves-lives.jpg
 
Your "diversity" argument is just drivel and pathetic straw clutching. Romeo lives in a racially diverse community and attends a racially diverse high school. IU has a racially diverse campus and like most major universities a strong minority presence in its athletic programs (where most socialization with student-athletes happens). I'm sure Vanderbilt does as well.

Trying to make an argument that Romeo might choose Vanderbilt over IU because its a bit "blacker" is just f#$king stupid and insulting to the kid. I have no idea which school he might choose and there could be a hundred different reasons he might prefer one over the other but to suggest that this might be a scale-tipper is absurd.

The kid is free to make his choice. He needs to go where he thinks the fit is best. I wish him the best of luck wherever because by all accounts he is a terrific kid. I hope he chooses IU for selfish reasons but if he does not, I won't lose sleep or bash the kid.

By resorting to moronic arguments like this and lowering yourself to using subtle insults you are doing exactly what you are protesting that others on this thread are doing.

Here's a suggestion. Why don't you shut up and go away until Romeo makes a decision. If he chooses Vandy, come back and gloat. If not, just stay gone (which I suspect you would do anyway). Every time you add another post, you drift a little further into left field.

My thoughts exactly.

Just for argument's sake, I looked up demographics & enrollment in for IU and Vandy. Feel free to check them at www.collegedata.com, if you don't believe me...

Results: IU 5% black of a 39,184 student body (= 1959 black students) VS Vandy 10% black of a 6871 student body = (687 black students).

Conclusion: This thread has become paralysis over analysis with him. You really think Romeo is saying, "Which school is doing more for the black community? Should I go to the school with more black students or the one with a larger proportion of black students? Which basketball program has more black players on it?" Doubtful!

His decision will be based on relationships with coaches, teammates, what the coach wants out of him/ how he will be used, facilities, and probably campus life.

Side note, I'm very happy with what IU has done. Vandy offered Romeo October 13th, 2015. Archie Miller accepted the IU job March 25, 2017. Despite Drew having that time advantage and their prior relationship, Archie is right there with him.

So the truth is, either A) Romeo likes Archie as a person and as a coach or B) Indiana is a program that he could see himself playing for. He wouldn't take programs like UCLA and UNC off his list unless there was something better.

Additionally, as for all these "experts", they have very limited information on Romeo's recruitment, and I doubt most of it is even accurate. Look at Zion's recruitment. Everyone thought he was Clemson bound, except for a Clemson insider who made his prediction ten minutes before Zion announced.

There's a ton of time left until he announces. Let the best man win.
 
That makes sense and is probably why Romeo recently described Bryce Drew as "calm" while describing Archie as "aggressive." We understand that Romeo is a calm sort of guy.

Bryce seems like a special guy ..... former Indiana Mr. Basketball .. three heart surgeries .. doesn't curse ... calm .... seems to be a player's coach ... the kind of coach who rolls the ball out there and let's a guy like Romeo (and Darrius Garland, Simi Shittu and maybe even E J Montgomery) do their things ... what a fun season next year has the potential to be in Nashville. A simple truth, I respectfully suggest, is a lot to like about Vandy and Nashville ... I again reiterate that it is not as easy a choice as the OP suggests and that is the reason for my several posts. I appreciate the several posters who've agreed that it isn't an easily choice.

Romeo "that Bryce Drew is such a special guy. I know he hasn't won anything and he's managing a program who's fans are currently 'shi$$ing' (oops I swore, Bryce would look down on that and he's my ideal self) all over three seniors who gave their hearts to the program, but that's not Bryce's fault.

He's a great man!!

A great leader and someone who is going to change my life.

He's calm and just rolls the ball out there to let us do our thing obviously because he doesn't really coach (see this year's team).

He also knows how to roll out those duffel bags of cash too".

What's not to like?
 
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Took Valpo to the second round of the tourney twice? Just how many NCAA games did Valpo win to get to the 2nd round?

You also realize Drew MISSED the dance the other 3 years. If Bryce was such a great coach in a piss-poor conference, how is he missing the NCAA? Tom Crean won 2 B1G titles in a 4-year span; you know what he did the other 2 years? T-7th, T-8th

Well, he won his conference regular season title in 2 of those years but came up short in the conference tourney. The Horizon league only gets the tourney champion in the NCAAs. Lucky for IU the Big Ten doesn't operate under those same guidelines, they would never make it in. I also believe Dayton would be in a draught if they had to win their conference tourney to get in. They haven't won it since 2003.

A guy coaching a team that averaged a recruiting class ranked in the 200s will get a pretty low seed in the NCAAs. Like a 13 and a 14. The year they were a 13 seed, Valpo was a 3 pointer away from forcing overtime. I'm obviously not going to convince you that Drew is not a terrible coach so I will stop trying. Have a good season.

And to those who keep claiming Drew is handing out cash to players, please provide the link with proof.
 
That makes sense and is probably why Romeo recently described Bryce Drew as "calm" while describing Archie as "aggressive." We understand that Romeo is a calm sort of guy.

Opposites attract.
Romeo wants a coach who will bring out the best in him.
 
Well, he won his conference regular season title in 2 of those years but came up short in the conference tourney. The Horizon league only gets the tourney champion in the NCAAs. Lucky for IU the Big Ten doesn't operate under those same guidelines, they would never make it in. I also believe Dayton would be in a draught if they had to win their conference tourney to get in. They haven't won it since 2003.

A guy coaching a team that averaged a recruiting class ranked in the 200s will get a pretty low seed in the NCAAs. Like a 13 and a 14. The year they were a 13 seed, Valpo was a 3 pointer away from forcing overtime. I'm obviously not going to convince you that Drew is not a terrible coach so I will stop trying. Have a good season.

And to those who keep claiming Drew is handing out cash to players, please provide the link with proof.
Looks like Romeo's choices are down to IU, Kansas, and a duffel bag full of cash (insert rimshot).
 
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I don't know who that is but Vandy has played the 3rd toughest schedule in the country, so unless Phinisee has done it against the 2nd or 1st toughest schedule, that is a pretty ridiculous statement.

Saben got into foul trouble early last night and ended up with zero points or assists, so he's definitely not a slam dunk hall of famer! Saben has to develop a jumper and until he does, he will occasionally get shut down.

Not sure you got my point, so...

Saben Lee is not a stud freshman...these guys are: Trae Young (#1 w 30 PPG), Marvin Bagley (#16 PPG/#6 RPG), Deondre Ayton (#48 PPG/#9 RPG).

Lee has made 42 turnovers in 20 games and averages 10.5 points. He makes 22% of his 3 attempts.

The comparison to Phinisee was for High School careers...there is no way to compare the ongoing season.

I personally believe Phinisee will have a better freshman year (next year) than Lee did this year because of his shooting ability. Who knows which will have a better career or become a 'stud'.
 
Not sure you got my point, so...

Saben Lee is not a stud freshman...these guys are: Trae Young (#1 w 30 PPG), Marvin Bagley (#16 PPG/#6 RPG), Deondre Ayton (#48 PPG/#9 RPG).

Lee has made 42 turnovers in 20 games and averages 10.5 points. He makes 22% of his 3 attempts.

The comparison to Phinisee was for High School careers...there is no way to compare the ongoing season.

I personally believe Phinisee will have a better freshman year (next year) than Lee did this year because of his shooting ability. Who knows which will have a better career or become a 'stud'.

Ok.

Saben is a good player, and one who anybody that has watched him knows how high his ceiling is. Label him whatever you want to but he's a nice player (again, needs to keep putting up 100's of shots a day because he can really get to the rim and score).
 
I'm obviously not going to convince you that Drew is not a terrible coach so I will stop trying. Have a good season.

Drew is not a terrible coach. Never said that, nor insinuated that.

What was at question, however, was whether Archie "far surpasses" Drew. In your support of Drew, you posted this:

Archie did have the one run to the elite eight which was very impressive but besides that, their tourney record was very similar:
CBD: NIT 1st rnd, NCAA 2nd rnd, NCAA 2nd rnd and NIT runner up
CAM: NIT 1st rnd, NCAA Elite eight, NCAA 2nd rnd, NCAA 1st rnd, NCAA 1st rnd..

The problem with your "comparison" is how you look at Drew's NCAA trips - they WERE BOTH GAMES IN THE ROUND OF 64!! The SECOND ROUND in those years was the round played after the play-in games!!! (First Four).

Lets do a quick breakdown of each coach's post-season records.
First, Archie:

2012 - NIT: Lost in 1st round to Iowa, 84-75.

2013 - No postseason

2014 - NCAA: Beat Ohio St 60-59 in Round of 64; Beat Syracuse 55-53 in Round of 32; Beat Stanford 82-72 in Sweet Sixteen; Lost to Florida 52-62 in Elite 8.

2015 - NCAA: Beat Boise St. 56-55 in First Four; Beat Providence 66-53 in Round of 64; Lost to Oklahoma 72-66 in Round of 32. Archie lost 4 seniors and 3 starters from the Elite 8 team, had a depleted roster featuring just six players who were recruited to Dayton and no active player taller than 6-foot-6, yet still made it to the Round of 32.

2016 - NCAA:Lost to Syracuse 51-70 in Round of 64. Syracuse as a #10 seed reached the Final Four in Philadelphia, the most mis-seeded team since UK (2014) or North Carolina (1990). For further info on that, talk to the 2014 Wichita State and 1990 Oklahoma teams.

2017 - NCAA: Lost to Wichita State 58-64 in Round of 64. Archie makes 4th straight NCAA tournament despite the tragic loss of center Steve McElvene the previous May.

Post-season record (10) games:5-10. Only 1 NIT game.

Now Drew

2012 - NIT: Lost in 1st round to Miami (FL), 50-66.

2013 -NCAA: Lost to Michigan St. 54-65 in Round of 64

2014 - CIT: Lost in 1st round to Columbia, 56-58.

2015 - NCAA: Lost to Maryland 62-65 in Round of 64

2016 - NIT: Beat Texas Southern 84-73 in 1st Round; Beat Florida St. 81-69 in 2nd Round; Beat St. Mary's 60-44 in Quarterfinals; Beat BYU 72-70 in Semifinals; Lost to George Washington 60-76 in NIT Championship.

2017 - NCAA: Lost to Northwestern 66-68 in Round of 64.

Post-season record (10) games:4-10. Only 2 NCAA games, both losses.

If you think they are "very similar", you are as ate up as they come. Stevie Wonder can see the difference between these two coaches from 5 miles away.
 
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Drew is not a terrible coach. Never said that, nor insinuated that.

What was at question, however, was whether Archie "far surpasses" Drew. In your support of Drew, you posted this:



The problem with your "comparison" is how you look at Drew's NCAA trips - they WERE BOTH GAMES IN THE ROUND OF 64!! The SECOND ROUND in those years was the round played after the play-in games!!! (First Four).

Lets do a quick breakdown of each coach's post-season records.
First, Archie:

2012 - NIT: Lost in 1st round to Iowa, 84-75.

2013 - No postseason

2014 - NCAA: Beat Ohio St 60-59 in Round of 64; Beat Syracuse 55-53 in Round of 32; Beat Stanford 82-72 in Sweet Sixteen; Lost to Florida 52-62 in Elite 8.

2015 - NCAA: Beat Boise St. 56-55 in First Four; Beat Providence 66-53 in Round of 64; Lost to Oklahoma 72-66 in Round of 32. Archie lost 4 seniors and 3 starters from the Elite 8 team, had a depleted roster featuring just six players who were recruited to Dayton and no active player taller than 6-foot-6, yet still made it to the Round of 32.

2016 - NCAA:Lost to Syracuse 51-70 in Round of 64. Syracuse as a #10 seed reached the Final Four in Philadelphia, the most mis-seeded team since UK (2014) or North Carolina (1990). For further info on that, talk to the 2014 Wichita State and 1990 Oklahoma teams.

2017 - NCAA: Lost to Wichita State 58-64 in Round of 64. Archie makes 4th straight NCAA tournament despite the tragic loss of center Steve McElvene the previous May.

Post-season record (10) games:5-10. Only 1 NIT game.

Now Drew

2012 - NIT: Lost in 1st round to Miami (FL), 50-66.

2013 -NCAA: Lost to Michigan St. 54-65 in Round of 64

2014 - CIT: Lost in 1st round to Columbia, 56-58.

2015 - NCAA: Lost to Maryland 62-65 in Round of 64

2016 - NIT: Beat Texas Southern 84-73 in 1st Round; Beat Florida St. 81-69 in 2nd Round; Beat St. Mary's 60-44 in Quarterfinals; Beat BYU 72-70 in Semifinals; Lost to George Washington 60-76 in NIT Championship.

2017 - NCAA: Lost to Northwestern 66-68 in Round of 64.

Post-season record (10) games:4-10. Only 2 NCAA games, both losses.

If you think they are "very similar", you are as ate up as they come. Stevie Wonder can see the difference between these two coaches from 5 miles away.


You are making a comparison of two teams with vastly different talent levels. I think I showed earlier that Dayton averaged a recruiting class at or just inside the top 100 in the country. Valpo was around 200+ (one year they were at 118 but 3 years I had to guess because I could not find them and scout didn't go below #200). The fact that he was not blown out by MSU and played Maryland to within a shot of OT shows his coaching prowess. When there is that much of a talent disparity, coaching comes into play. You make excuses for Dayton losing when they are a higher seed but no mention of Valpo being completely outmanned at every position in their games as lower seed. I would say that Dayton's run in 2014 was due Miller's coaching ability as well since he had a lower seed in those games but still not the disparity in talent Drew had to overcome.

If talent levels don't make a difference to you and Archie is the next great coach, IU should be competing for the Big championship. You have an All big ten center on your team.
 
Looks like Romeo's choices are down to IU, Kansas, and a duffel bag full of cash (insert rimshot).
He isn't going to Kansas (to late they have
Quentin Grimes) or IU for personal reasons.
Vanderbilt is the leader unless a blueblood comes
along and offers him.

Because Archie has only been on the job for a few months and coaches usually start recruiting kids by their sophomore year.
 
You are making a comparison of two teams with vastly different talent levels. I think I showed earlier that Dayton averaged a recruiting class at or just inside the top 100 in the country. Valpo was around 200+ (one year they were at 118 but 3 years I had to guess because I could not find them and scout didn't go below #200). The fact that he was not blown out by MSU and played Maryland to within a shot of OT shows his coaching prowess. When there is that much of a talent disparity, coaching comes into play. You make excuses for Dayton losing when they are a higher seed but no mention of Valpo being completely outmanned at every position in their games as lower seed. I would say that Dayton's run in 2014 was due Miller's coaching ability as well since he had a lower seed in those games but still not the disparity in talent Drew had to overcome.

If talent levels don't make a difference to you and Archie is the next great coach, IU should be competing for the Big championship. You have an All big ten center on your team.

Wisconsin has an all-american center on their team, and they aren't competing for the Big Ten Championship either. This isn't the SEC, where one good player is all you need to stand out. Morgan is better than anyone on Vanderbilt's team, but he's maybe the 4th best "center" in the Big. He's really a power forward. He's playing center because out center tore his achilles. But, you probably know all that, and you're just trolling.

He isn't going to Kansas (to late they have
Quentin Grimes) or IU for personal reasons.
Vanderbilt is the leader unless a blueblood comes
along and offers him.

When is Greg Oden finally going to enroll at IU like you promised?
 
You are making a comparison of two teams with vastly different talent levels. I think I showed earlier that Dayton averaged a recruiting class at or just inside the top 100 in the country. Valpo was around 200+ (one year they were at 118 but 3 years I had to guess because I could not find them and scout didn't go below #200). The fact that he was not blown out by MSU and played Maryland to within a shot of OT shows his coaching prowess. When there is that much of a talent disparity, coaching comes into play. You make excuses for Dayton losing when they are a higher seed but no mention of Valpo being completely outmanned at every position in their games as lower seed. I would say that Dayton's run in 2014 was due Miller's coaching ability as well since he had a lower seed in those games but still not the disparity in talent Drew had to overcome.

If talent levels don't make a difference to you and Archie is the next great coach, IU should be competing for the Big championship. You have an All big ten center on your team.


Archie is supposed to take over a roster with all kinds of issues and fix all of its warts in half a season? All Big 10 center? Who, Juwan Morgan - he's a FORWARD! LOL . . .your coach had almost all of an NCAA Tournament team back and is sitting, what, 7-13? Now that's coaching . . .

Making excuses for Dayton losing as a higher seed? It happened the one time I referred to, and if you do your research (I've done enough for you already) you'll understand why that was noteworthy - as were the two other times I had listed (2014 & 1990). The other thing I mentioned as things Dayton overcame. Good coaching can do that.

But speak of excuses? You whine that "The Horizon league only gets the tourney champion in the NCAAs". You ever wonder WHY? They don't win against the few good teams they play.

Again, I've done all the research for you. Here are Horizon League teams since 2002 (league inception), a link to Sagarin ratings (which show how they faired against top 25 / top 50) and the NCAA Tournament. All of the links start at the 2002 season, and you can progress through each to succeeding seasons.


2002 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30

41 Butler = 83.43 26 6 72.01( 209) 1 0 | 1 0

100 Detroit = 76.75 18 13 74.97( 121) 0 1 | 0 1

118 Illinois-Chicago = 75.62 18 14 74.45( 134) 0 1 | 0 2

62 Valparaiso = 81.28 24 8 71.98( 212) 0 2 | 0 3


2003 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30

30 Butler = 84.82 26 6 76.54( 93) 1 2 | 2 2

45 Wis.-Milwaukee = 82.71 23 8 75.26( 118) 0 0 | 2 4

59 Illinois-Chicago = 80.92 21 9 74.82( 133) 0 0 | 0 2

93 Valparaiso = 78.01 20 11 73.17( 167) 0 1 | 0 4


2004 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30

77 Wis.-Milwaukee = 79.60 19 11 74.95( 121) 0 0 | 0 2

82 Illinois-Chicago = 79.26 24 8 72.94( 179) 0 0 | 0 2

141 Butler = 74.11 15 14 73.09( 174) 0 0 | 0 0

144 Wis.-Green Bay = 73.98 16 11 72.68( 187) 0 0 | 0 1

155 Valparaiso = 73.32 17 13 72.75( 183) 0 2 | 0 3


2005 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30

27 Wis.-Milwaukee = 85.51 25 6 74.57( 138) 0 1 | 2 3

149 Wis.-Green Bay = 74.24 17 11 73.17( 178) 0 1 | 1 3

153 Detroit = 74.09 13 16 74.94( 128) 0 0 | 1 3

166 Butler = 73.13 12 15 72.69( 196) 0 0 | 0 2

197 Valparaiso = 71.06 15 16 73.25( 175) 0 2 | 1 3


2006 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30

60 Wis.-Milwaukee = 81.36 21 9 75.04( 105) 0 2 | 0 3

82 Butler = 79.12 20 13 74.65( 117) 0 0 | 1 1

183 Wis.-Green Bay = 71.17 14 16 73.44( 156) 0 0 | 0 1

176 Valparaiso = 71.60 16 12 69.81( 262) 0 1 | 0 2


2007 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

15 Butler = 87.20 27 7 76.16( 77) 5 2 | 5 2

89 Loyola-Chicago = 77.56 19 11 74.12( 117) 1 4 | 1 4

90 Wright State = 77.52 23 10 73.65( 130) 2 2 | 2 2

142 Valparaiso = 73.41 15 15 72.84( 151) 0 2 | 0 4


2008 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

20 Butler = 86.56 30 4 75.42( 98) 1 2 | 2 2

88 Cleveland State = 78.11 19 13 76.21( 84) 1 3 | 1 4

94 Valparaiso ~ = 77.68 20 14 75.26( 106) 0 4 | 0 5


2009 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

43 Butler = 83.37 25 6 74.49( 97) 1 0 | 1 2

64 Cleveland State = 80.86 23 11 75.29( 83) 2 2 | 3 6

87 Wis.-Green Bay = 78.24 22 10 72.62( 152) 0 0 | 1 3

224 Valparaiso = 67.98 7 22 75.41( 79) 0 2 | 0 4


2010 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

8 Butler = 89.57 33 5 77.38( 58) 5 2 | 6 4

77 Wright State = 79.12 20 12 73.71( 131) 0 3 | 0 4

167 Valparaiso = 71.75 12 17 74.60( 110) 0 4 | 0 5


2011 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

22 Butler = 86.01 27 10 77.61( 55) 3 3 | 6 4

94 Valparaiso = 77.33 21 12 74.16( 118) 1 3 | 1 3

119 Wis.-Milwaukee = 75.62 19 14 75.29( 94) 2 3 | 2 4


2012 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

82 Cleveland State = 79.33 21 11 74.27( 125) 1 0 | 1 2

114 Butler = 76.92 21 15 74.34( 123) 1 3 | 2 4

122 Detroit = 76.05 20 14 73.58( 145) 0 1 | 0 3

136 Valparaiso = 74.98 20 12 73.77( 138) 0 1 | 0 1

70 Dayton = 80.27 20 13 76.45( 78) 1 1 | 5 4


2013 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

65 Valparaiso = 80.47 25 8 72.29( 165) 0 3 | 0 3

78 Detroit = 79.19 18 13 75.05( 114) 0 4 | 0 5

66 Dayton= 80.33 17 14 75.94( 99) 0 2 | 0 7


2014 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

73 Green Bay = 79.73 21 7 72.82( 149) 1 1 | 1 2

94 Cleveland State = 77.64 19 12 73.04( 141) 0 1 | 0 1

164 Milwaukee = 72.50 20 14 72.22( 164) 0 2 | 0 2

171 Valparaiso = 72.23 15 16 72.61( 153) 0 0 | 0 1

33 Dayton = 84.67 26 11 78.00( 63) 3 2 | 7 7


2015 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

68 Valparaiso = 80.01 25 6 71.45( 197) 0 0 | 0 1

75 Green Bay = 79.07 22 9 72.85( 148) 0 1 | 1 1

42 Dayton = 82.75 27 9 75.72( 89) 0 1 | 2 4


2016 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

46 Valparaiso = 82.75 28 7 72.52( 137) 0 1 | 3 2

82 Oakland-Mich. = 78.56 23 12 71.15( 170) 0 2 | 0 4

124 Green Bay = 74.62 21 13 72.02( 146) 0 1 | 1 5

144 Wright State = 73.17 20 13 70.48( 195) 0 2 | 2 2

55 Dayton = 81.79 25 8 75.38( 87) 1 1 | 4 4


2017 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

40 Dayton = 83.44 23 8 75.06( 83) 0 2 | 4 4


There's a reason why so many of those Horizon teams didn't get in or had high seeds - they either 1) lost to the top 25 / 50 competition they played, or 2) played a weak schedule. Yet Butler was able to get in with an at-large bid out of the Horizon THREE times, two before Brad Steven's became coach. They played - and beat - good teams, and were rewarded for it.

As for years Dayton and Valpo didn't get in?

For 2012 Dayton not getting in, compare their resume to South Florida and California (both better)

For 2016 Valparaiso not getting in, compare to their resume to Tulsa, Wichita St and Michigan (all 3 better).

It's possible to make the tournament regularly out of the Horizon - or any conference, for that matter. Dayton did it. Gonzaga has done it. Others have as well, and they all have a common denominator.

But you keep thinking Drew is on the same level as Archie, keep on whining and making excuses. If you're gonna come to another teams board and attempt to troll, at least have SOMETHING to stand on.
 
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Archie is supposed to take over a roster with all kinds of issues and fix all of its warts in half a season? All Big 10 center? Who, Juwan Morgan - he's a FORWARD! LOL . . .your coach had almost all of an NCAA Tournament team back and is sitting, what, 7-13? Now that's coaching . . .

Making excuses for Dayton losing as a higher seed? It happened the one time I referred to, and if you do your research (I've done enough for you already) you'll understand why that was noteworthy - as were the two other times I had listed (2014 & 1990). The other thing I mentioned as things Dayton overcame. Good coaching can do that.

But speak of excuses? You whine that "The Horizon league only gets the tourney champion in the NCAAs". You ever wonder WHY? They don't win against the few good teams they play.

Again, I've done all the research for you. Here are Horizon League teams since 2002 (league inception), a link to Sagarin ratings (which show how they faired against top 25 / top 50) and the NCAA Tournament. All of the links start at the 2002 season, and you can progress through each to succeeding seasons.


2002 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30

41 Butler = 83.43 26 6 72.01( 209) 1 0 | 1 0

100 Detroit = 76.75 18 13 74.97( 121) 0 1 | 0 1

118 Illinois-Chicago = 75.62 18 14 74.45( 134) 0 1 | 0 2

62 Valparaiso = 81.28 24 8 71.98( 212) 0 2 | 0 3


2003 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30

30 Butler = 84.82 26 6 76.54( 93) 1 2 | 2 2

45 Wis.-Milwaukee = 82.71 23 8 75.26( 118) 0 0 | 2 4

59 Illinois-Chicago = 80.92 21 9 74.82( 133) 0 0 | 0 2

93 Valparaiso = 78.01 20 11 73.17( 167) 0 1 | 0 4


2004 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30

77 Wis.-Milwaukee = 79.60 19 11 74.95( 121) 0 0 | 0 2

82 Illinois-Chicago = 79.26 24 8 72.94( 179) 0 0 | 0 2

141 Butler = 74.11 15 14 73.09( 174) 0 0 | 0 0

144 Wis.-Green Bay = 73.98 16 11 72.68( 187) 0 0 | 0 1

155 Valparaiso = 73.32 17 13 72.75( 183) 0 2 | 0 3


2005 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30

27 Wis.-Milwaukee = 85.51 25 6 74.57( 138) 0 1 | 2 3

149 Wis.-Green Bay = 74.24 17 11 73.17( 178) 0 1 | 1 3

153 Detroit = 74.09 13 16 74.94( 128) 0 0 | 1 3

166 Butler = 73.13 12 15 72.69( 196) 0 0 | 0 2

197 Valparaiso = 71.06 15 16 73.25( 175) 0 2 | 1 3


2006 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30

60 Wis.-Milwaukee = 81.36 21 9 75.04( 105) 0 2 | 0 3

82 Butler = 79.12 20 13 74.65( 117) 0 0 | 1 1

183 Wis.-Green Bay = 71.17 14 16 73.44( 156) 0 0 | 0 1

176 Valparaiso = 71.60 16 12 69.81( 262) 0 1 | 0 2


2007 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

15 Butler = 87.20 27 7 76.16( 77) 5 2 | 5 2

89 Loyola-Chicago = 77.56 19 11 74.12( 117) 1 4 | 1 4

90 Wright State = 77.52 23 10 73.65( 130) 2 2 | 2 2

142 Valparaiso = 73.41 15 15 72.84( 151) 0 2 | 0 4


2008 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

20 Butler = 86.56 30 4 75.42( 98) 1 2 | 2 2

88 Cleveland State = 78.11 19 13 76.21( 84) 1 3 | 1 4

94 Valparaiso ~ = 77.68 20 14 75.26( 106) 0 4 | 0 5


2009 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

43 Butler = 83.37 25 6 74.49( 97) 1 0 | 1 2

64 Cleveland State = 80.86 23 11 75.29( 83) 2 2 | 3 6

87 Wis.-Green Bay = 78.24 22 10 72.62( 152) 0 0 | 1 3

224 Valparaiso = 67.98 7 22 75.41( 79) 0 2 | 0 4


2010 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

8 Butler = 89.57 33 5 77.38( 58) 5 2 | 6 4

77 Wright State = 79.12 20 12 73.71( 131) 0 3 | 0 4

167 Valparaiso = 71.75 12 17 74.60( 110) 0 4 | 0 5


2011 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

22 Butler = 86.01 27 10 77.61( 55) 3 3 | 6 4

94 Valparaiso = 77.33 21 12 74.16( 118) 1 3 | 1 3

119 Wis.-Milwaukee = 75.62 19 14 75.29( 94) 2 3 | 2 4


2012 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

82 Cleveland State = 79.33 21 11 74.27( 125) 1 0 | 1 2

114 Butler = 76.92 21 15 74.34( 123) 1 3 | 2 4

122 Detroit = 76.05 20 14 73.58( 145) 0 1 | 0 3

136 Valparaiso = 74.98 20 12 73.77( 138) 0 1 | 0 1

70 Dayton = 80.27 20 13 76.45( 78) 1 1 | 5 4


2013 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

65 Valparaiso = 80.47 25 8 72.29( 165) 0 3 | 0 3

78 Detroit = 79.19 18 13 75.05( 114) 0 4 | 0 5

66 Dayton= 80.33 17 14 75.94( 99) 0 2 | 0 7


2014 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

73 Green Bay = 79.73 21 7 72.82( 149) 1 1 | 1 2

94 Cleveland State = 77.64 19 12 73.04( 141) 0 1 | 0 1

164 Milwaukee = 72.50 20 14 72.22( 164) 0 2 | 0 2

171 Valparaiso = 72.23 15 16 72.61( 153) 0 0 | 0 1

33 Dayton = 84.67 26 11 78.00( 63) 3 2 | 7 7


2015 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

68 Valparaiso = 80.01 25 6 71.45( 197) 0 0 | 0 1

75 Green Bay = 79.07 22 9 72.85( 148) 0 1 | 1 1

42 Dayton = 82.75 27 9 75.72( 89) 0 1 | 2 4


2016 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

46 Valparaiso = 82.75 28 7 72.52( 137) 0 1 | 3 2

82 Oakland-Mich. = 78.56 23 12 71.15( 170) 0 2 | 0 4

124 Green Bay = 74.62 21 13 72.02( 146) 0 1 | 1 5

144 Wright State = 73.17 20 13 70.48( 195) 0 2 | 2 2

55 Dayton = 81.79 25 8 75.38( 87) 1 1 | 4 4


2017 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50

40 Dayton = 83.44 23 8 75.06( 83) 0 2 | 4 4


There's a reason why so many of those Horizon teams didn't get in or had high seeds - they either 1) lost to the top 25 / 50 competition they played, or 2) played a weak schedule. Yet Butler was able to get in with an at-large bid out of the Horizon THREE times, two before Brad Steven's became coach. They played - and beat - good teams, and were rewarded for it.

As for years Dayton and Valpo didn't get in?

For 2012 Dayton not getting in, compare their resume to South Florida and California (both better)

For 2016 Valparaiso not getting in, compare to their resume to Tulsa, Wichita St and Michigan (all 3 better).

It's possible to make the tournament regularly out of the Horizon - or any conference, for that matter. Dayton did it. Gonzaga has done it. Others have as well, and they all have a common denominator.

But you keep thinking Drew is on the same level as Archie, keep on whining and making excuses. If you're gonna come to another teams board and attempt to troll, at least have SOMETHING to stand on.

Yikes...

Somebody got their balls trolled off.
 
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