Rick Bozich's take on Crean situation

[HighlanderHoosier]

Interesting comparison between Crean Year 9 and Tubby Smith Year 10. On Crean's character (Bozich labels 5-Star), I thought this was a juicy entry, regarding recruits: "When recruits ask Crean what is – cough -- available – cough -- beyond a scholarship at Indiana, he has told several to take their requests elsewhere." Guess Bozich is used to Pitino's predicaments.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/34691428/...rean-and-indiana-the-basketball-world-wonders

 

[5morebanners]

He's right on. We DO expect the tournament every single year. 2 out of 4 is unacceptable.

 

[TheRehab5]

What recruits? Names?
He makes it sound like the entire system is slimy except Crean. Pathetic and a dirty shot at Tubby too.

 

[TR32]

Credit where credit is due. I believe in Crean's integrity. He faltered a bit with Hanner and Troy and Stan, but he nipped that in the bud (pun definitely intended).

 

[BigNutsIUFan]

Even if you take out the national title game Tubby had twice the sucess that Crean has had yet he faced a lot of turmoil. Anybody look at these comments on the article. Bunch of idiot fans wanting to keep Crean around because of the 2 out of 4 conference titles and saying we are not elite anymore. We can be elite, just need the right coach.

 

[KA4Prez]

Tubby was fired because he got complacent and regardless of what recruits he got (he had the #1 class 2 years before he left), the program was stuck in neutral. People clamored about him being "run out of town", but look at Tubby Smith since? 143 losses in 10 seasons at Texas Tech, Minnesota and Memphis. Never less than 11 losses in a season. That is the definition of mediocrity and although UK screwed up big time with the Gillispie hire, canning Tubby was long overdue.

I think IU is headed for the same thing. Crean could win 25+ games and be a top 3-seed, but if he doesn't make the Final Four, much of the animosity I read from IU fans will be worse than ever. It's just time for a change, IMO, as a non-fan.

 

[choptalk]

Credit where credit is due. I believe in Crean's integrity. He faltered a bit with Hanner and Troy and Stan, but he nipped that in the bud (pun definitely intended).

It wasn't that long ago when surveyed coaches felt just the opposite. He also had that episode visiting Gary Harris during a down period and saying he forgot what day it was. Most coaches occasionally stumble.

 

[hondo314]

Credit where credit is due. I believe in Crean's integrity. He faltered a bit with Hanner and Troy and Stan, but he nipped that in the bud (pun definitely intended).

Matt Roth might disagree.

Not saying I think Crean is shadier than most power conference coaches but what leads us to believe he is some beacon of integrity? Especially with all the creanings. Because he used to tweet psalms? Name another coach in our league you believe to have less integrity. Can't think of any?

Again, not saying he's an overtly bad man but i've never quite understood where the Saint Thomas the Martyr narrative came from. Likely his own mouth. People also think he outworks everyone. They think that because the man likely talks about work more than he actually works. At least based on results.

 

[jemulz]

Tubby was fired because he got complacent and regardless of what recruits he got (he had the #1 class 2 years before he left), the program was stuck in neutral. People clamored about him being "run out of town", but look at Tubby Smith since? 143 losses in 10 seasons at Texas Tech, Minnesota and Memphis. Never less than 11 losses in a season. That is the definition of mediocrity and although UK screwed up big time with the Gillispie hire, canning Tubby was long overdue.

I think IU is headed for the same thing. Crean could win 25+ games and be a top 3-seed, but if he doesn't make the Final Four, much of the animosity I read from IU fans will be worse than ever. It's just time for a change, IMO, as a non-fan.

I agree to some extent with your last statement. I don't see how Glass can bring Crean back next year with the fan base riled up. If he comes back, he has to give him an extension which will anger the base. The team will be starting over again if JBJ, Bryant and OG all leave so it will be another rough year. The fans will be all over him from day one, questioning every move, angry with every loss and probably either booing or just not showing up by the end. There is a huge potential to being a toxic environment for the year. Most of the players will transfer because who would want to play for fans like that? I just see so many things that can go wrong next year and so few things that could go right if Crean stays.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

What recruits? Names?
He makes it sound like the entire system is slimy except Crean. Pathetic and a dirty shot at Tubby too.

I lost a lot of respect for Tubby over that whole fax situation several years ago. I think he was lying his ass off to get a star player back on the team. I can't remember the player's name, but he declared for and stayed in the draft that year.

 

[BigNutsIUFan]

I agree to some extent with your last statement. I don't see how Glass can bring Crean back next year with the fan base riled up. If he comes back, he has to give him an extension which will anger the base. The team will be starting over again if JBJ, Bryant and OG all leave so it will be another rough year. The fans will be all over him from day one, questioning every move, angry with every loss and probably either booing or just not showing up by the end. There is a huge potential to being a toxic environment for the year. Most of the players will transfer because who would want to play for fans like that? I just see so many things that can go wrong next year and so few things that could go right if Crean stays.

I think so too but man there is still a lot of fans in Creans corner for some reason and a lot out there that think Glass will give him one more year and this is after 2 disasterous years in last 4. Imagine how long he would be here with a record like Tubby's even without the championship. He might have a lifetime contract.

 

[iugradmark]

Interesting comparison between Crean Year 9 and Tubby Smith Year 10. On Crean's character (Bozich labels 5-Star), I thought this was a juicy entry, regarding recruits: "When recruits ask Crean what is – cough -- available – cough -- beyond a scholarship at Indiana, he has told several to take their requests elsewhere." Guess Bozich is used to Pitino's predicaments.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/34691428/...rean-and-indiana-the-basketball-world-wonders

The article sums Crean's time up fairly well but not that much about comparing Tubby and Tom. Crean is trending all the wrong ways at once. His recruiting overall is down. Recruiting in-state, which should be an advantage, has dried up. The coaching problems on defense, turnovers, and end of game management are just bad and there is no Yogi to bale us out. You can find issues with Tubby but he did not fall apart in all critical categories.

 

[jemulz]

I think so too but man there is still a lot of fans in Creans corner for some reason and a lot out there that think Glass will give him one more year and this is after 2 disasterous years in last 4. Imagine how long he would be here with a record like Tubby's even without the championship. He might have a lifetime contract.

I think the trickiest part is the contract. If he had 4+ years left, I think he stays but you can't leave a coach with less than 4 years on your sideline. I can't see an extension either though, unless he does 1 year worth nothing added to what he has. Just add a year on the back.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Tubby was fired because he got complacent and regardless of what recruits he got (he had the #1 class 2 years before he left), the program was stuck in neutral. People clamored about him being "run out of town", but look at Tubby Smith since? 143 losses in 10 seasons at Texas Tech, Minnesota and Memphis. Never less than 11 losses in a season. That is the definition of mediocrity and although UK screwed up big time with the Gillispie hire, canning Tubby was long overdue.

I think IU is headed for the same thing. Crean could win 25+ games and be a top 3-seed, but if he doesn't make the Final Four, much of the animosity I read from IU fans will be worse than ever. It's just time for a change, IMO, as a non-fan.

Personally, I think you're being a bit harsh on Tubby. In 10 years at UK, he:

1) Never missed the tourney
2) Never got bounced in the first round
3) Won a national championship
4) Went to 3 Elite Eights
5) Won 5 SEC Championships
6) Posted a .760 winning percentage in a Power conference

I suppose you can say those results were more about the car than the driver. And there's an argument to made for that, I'm sure. But I don't think it's a great comparison to our situation with Crean.

Fact is, Pitino did (far) better at resurrecting Kentucky from the wake of the Sutton fiasco than Crean did at resurrecting Indiana from the wake of the Sampson fiasco. And Tubby's results might not have pleased every UK fan -- but they were actually quite good. But I always gathered that Tubby never really escaped Pitino's shadow -- which was completely unfair to him.

Anyway, I agree with you that it's time to move on. Frankly, it was time to move on several years ago -- but the buyout was too punitive.

 

[hoosier_est_1984]

Because he used to tweet psalms?

I'm not very religious, nor
anti religious (like how society has found it so trendy to be in today).
But I would trust a person who quotes psalms less then anyone....Thats like living next to a catholic priest while lil Timmy is still impressionable...

 

[bailey777]

I think so too but man there is still a lot of fans in Creans corner for some reason and a lot out there that think Glass will give him one more year and this is after 2 disasterous years in last 4. Imagine how long he would be here with a record like Tubby's even without the championship. He might have a lifetime contract.

These people are delusional I guess. If they bring him back and give him an extension will bury the IU program for good. There will be no coming back this time. We have one last chance to get this right and if Fred messes this up it is over. Honestly I would be done if they brought him back as I just cannot take anymore of him.

 

[bailey777]

I think the trickiest part is the contract. If he had 4+ years left, I think he stays but you can't leave a coach with less than 4 years on your sideline. I can't see an extension either though, unless he does 1 year worth nothing added to what he has. Just add a year on the back.

None of this should be tricky at all. He is not earning his 3.5 million a year and should be fired. If the IU admins cannot see that than we are doomed for mediocrity forever.

 

[UncleMark]

I think so too but man there is still a lot of fans in Creans corner for some reason and a lot out there that think Glass will give him one more year and this is after 2 disasterous years in last 4.

The only people that think this are people who don't understand how it works. For Crean to stay on, he has to be given an extension, and that's unthinkable. Contrary to some peoples' beliefs, Glass is not an idiot. The time is now and it's happening. Just have to see how it all pans out.

 

[BigNutsIUFan]

Personally, I think you're being a bit harsh on Tubby. In 10 years at UK, he:

1) Never missed the tourney
2) Never got bounced in the first round
3) Won a national championship
4) Went to 3 Elite Eights
5) Won 5 SEC Championships
6) Posted a .760 winning percentage in a Power conference

I suppose you can say those results were more about the car than the driver. And there's an argument to made for that, I'm sure. But I don't think it's a great comparison to our situation with Crean.

Fact is, Pitino did (far) better at resurrecting Kentucky from the wake of the Sutton fiasco than Crean did at resurrecting Indiana from the wake of the Sampson fiasco. And Tubby's results might not have pleased every UK fan -- but they were actually quite good. But I always gathered that Tubby never really escaped Pitino's shadow -- which was completely unfair to him.

Anyway, I agree with you that it's time to move on. Frankly, it was time to move on several years ago -- but the buyout was too punitive.

And Tubby never played a complete cupcake schedule like Crean did. We should have made a move in year 6 or 7 IMO but Glass stuck us all up the butt. There is no excuse now.

 

[jemulz]

None of this should be tricky at all. He is not earning his 3.5 million a year and should be fired. If the IU admins cannot see that than we are doomed for mediocrity forever.

I agree he should move on. I am stating this from the standpoint of someone (maybe Glass) who want him to have another year to get it together. The contract is the problem for them

 

[kkott]

None of this should be tricky at all. He is not earning his 3.5 million a year and should be fired. If the IU admins cannot see that than we are doomed for mediocrity forever.

Thought I'd read that it's 3.9 mill this year. Think it averaged 3.5 but he's at the tail end now, I believe.

 

[ZildjianZLine]

I'm not very religious, nor
anti religious (like how society has found it so trendy to be in today).
But I would trust a person who quotes psalms less then anyone....Thats like living next to a catholic priest while lil Timmy is still impressionable...

 

[cshartle123]

I have personally gone back and forth over Crean through the years. I also have friends on both sides. With his resume in hand, a legitimate argument could be made for retaining him and for firing him. I don't think the root of the division is based on his resume and stats. It's based on whether or not he is capable of hanging a banner. I finally decided before this season that I don't think he is capable, so I side with firing him. Now my view is that every additional season we have him is wasted time.

 

[bailey777]

I have personally gone back and forth over Crean through the years. I also have friends on both sides. With his resume in hand, a legitimate argument could be made for retaining him and for firing him. I don't think the root of the division is based on his resume and stats. It's based on whether or not he is capable of hanging a banner. I finally decided before this season that I don't think he is capable, so I side with firing him. Now my view is that every additional season we have him is wasted time.

It is totally wasted time. We have already wasted two years since he should have been fired and next year would be a third wasted year. If you cannot tell after 9 years if a guy can or cannot get it done you should not be the AD. Either give him the extension saying he is your guy or fire him. None of this nonsense lets give him one more year crap.

 

[IU Hoops Fan]

I have personally gone back and forth over Crean through the years. I also have friends on both sides. With his resume in hand, a legitimate argument could be made for retaining him and for firing him. I don't think the root of the division is based on his resume and stats. It's based on whether or not he is capable of hanging a banner. I finally decided before this season that I don't think he is capable, so I side with firing him. Now my view is that every additional season we have him is wasted time.

For me, it is based on results. It all depends on expectations. If this was the University of Georgia, Crean stays. But it's not UGA. Crean's performance has not lived up to his salary or what IU should expect.

If anyone says, based on his results, that he should stay, that person has much lower expectations than me. But even that person would have to agree we are overpaying Crean.

Crean has to go. Anything else is a capitulation to mediocrity.

 

[KA4Prez]

Personally, I think you're being a bit harsh on Tubby. In 10 years at UK, he:

1) Never missed the tourney
2) Never got bounced in the first round
3) Won a national championship
4) Went to 3 Elite Eights
5) Won 5 SEC Championships
6) Posted a .760 winning percentage in a Power conference

I suppose you can say those results were more about the car than the driver. And there's an argument to made for that, I'm sure. But I don't think it's a great comparison to our situation with Crean.

Fact is, Pitino did (far) better at resurrecting Kentucky from the wake of the Sutton fiasco than Crean did at resurrecting Indiana from the wake of the Sampson fiasco. And Tubby's results might not have pleased every UK fan -- but they were actually quite good. But I always gathered that Tubby never really escaped Pitino's shadow -- which was completely unfair to him.

Anyway, I agree with you that it's time to move on. Frankly, it was time to move on several years ago -- but the buyout was too punitive.

You guys should be able to see that even if you're "winning a lot of games in a power conference", the teams being put out on the floor were not elite. They didn't have the overall talent and were being held together by Tubby's coaching. UK's standard is an A+ and he was operating at a B+ to C+ level overall. Same reason so many IU fans want Crean gone, and I can totally understand why. Even if he wins the Big Ten Tournament this year and gets to the NCAA's...what's the end game?

 

[Harpo Marxist]

If Crean won the B1G...he will be retained...and IU basketball will be set back for another 10 years. Brief, small upside (BTT and OAD in the Dance).....followed by long-term mediocrity. The program moves ever-closer to antiquity.