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Ransom

"most transparent administration ever"

Interestingly, the administration has confirmed they have paid the remaining $1.3 billion to Iran, but have refused to disclose how those payments were done.

And of, course, the recent obfuscation makes one wonder why the $1.7 billion was announced in January, only a few days after 10 US Navy sailors were released by Iran.

Probably, just like the $400 million and release of the recent Americans, "just a coincidence." Okay, then.
 
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So, Iran was "already going to get" the $400 million regardless of whether the hostages were released?

Maybe, but that's not how it went down. See, the money really did belong to Iran and legally we had to give it back to them. What happened was we held their money hostage and used that as leverage in order to extort hostages from Iran. Looking at the textbook/legal definition of what a ransom really is, if anyone paid a ransom it was Iran.
 
Maybe, but that's not how it went down. See, the money really did belong to Iran and legally we had to give it back to them. What happened was we held their money hostage and used that as leverage in order to extort hostages from Iran. Looking at the textbook/legal definition of what a ransom really is, if anyone paid a ransom it was Iran.
There's no "maybe" here. If Iran doesn't release the hostages, the U.S. doesn't pay, even if webowe them the money. We've admitted that tie several weeks after we previously denied any connection.

You guys are tying yourselves into knots trying to craft a misrepresentation that isn't believable by anyone, as the U.S. has now acknowledged. It's not the first time the U.S. has done this, and it won't be the last. But your (and several other's) insistence that those little turds in the punch bowl are really orange slices makes you look like silly partisans who can't think for yourselves.
 
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stuart_smalley_Daily-Affirmations-I-am-good-enough-I-am-smart-enough-and-doggone-it-people-like-me.jpg

Good for you. Just wish your weren't such an angry old white democrat. ;)
 
Opponents of the Iran deal have had their heads up their asses from the get go -- making incendiary fact-free claims, pounding the table, and otherwise being dumbasses. Nothing has changed. They are still reducing a complicated situation to stupid bumper sticker nonsense.

(As everyone knows, any real ransom payment to Iran includes a cake and a Bible.)

There are a lot of disparate issues at play here.

First, there is a legitimate question if we even owe them this $? The deal was made with the Shah who was violently overthrown.

For the sake of this post, I'll presume we don't have a clause to cancel the $ owed.

If we are using this $400 million in order to rescue spies I will consider the $ well spent. The narrative that they are in any way, shape, or form hostages is false. If you travel to certain countries as a dual citizen you are treated solely as a citizen of that country. If they broke Iranian laws they must face the consequences of this. Why we are even involving ourselves in internal domestic legal questions of a sovereign state is totally beyond me.

If you travel to Iran as an Iranian-American the risk is on you.

If they were not spies, this negotiation is a disaster. And I'm particularly dismayed that we provided preferential treatment to a loud, obnoxious, fat guy with friends in high places and his Iranian wife, while non-dual citizen Robert Levinson has been missing for 10 years.

And if the goal is to use this as leverage for dual citizens, Iran has arrested numerous dual citizens since the release of these 4. I'll take the Iranian regime at their word that many of those arrested have been engaging in illegal actives according to their law.
 
This thread sucks.
Not sure if anyone here is non-partisan enough to discuss this, but to me the real question is why was Obama in such a hurry to hand over the $400M that he had to skirt the sanctions? He claims or implies it was because they got a good deal, so the implication is that if they didn't pay now, they might have to pay more later. That strikes me as thoroughly dubious, especially since the payment had to be made by skirting the sanctions.

My hunch is that the hostage release was but a small part of it. I'm thinking that the bigger part in Obama's mind was the Iran Nuclear Deal. Not sure how that all plays together and I don't really care that much, but this all reeks of Obama's usual lame negotiating skills.

(I'm an Obama fan, so no, that's not a partisan take on Obama.)
 
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Serious question, because I don't really know, but are multiple pallets of hard currency the normal method of above board payment between nations?
 
Serious question, because I don't really know, but are multiple pallets of hard currency the normal method of above board payment between nations?

Iran does not have access to the international banking system. I believe they are only now starting to come online with certain banks. U.S. financial institutions are still prohibited from dealing with them.

Given the circumstances this was the only method of payment possible. Unless you are proposing gold?
 
Iran does not have access to the international banking system. I believe they are only now starting to come online with certain banks. U.S. financial institutions are still prohibited from dealing with them.

Given the circumstances this was the only method of payment possible. Unless you are proposing gold?

Nope. Good enough answer for me.
 
Nope. Good enough answer for me.
People who regulate international banking are hesitant to deal with Iran. Because they take hostages as a business practice.

Not our POTUS. Pallets o' francs and hills o' bills.

Thanks Obama!
 
Whether you guys call this ransom or not Iran and and everyone else taking hostages look at it like ransom.

If we ignored The Hague's ruling all these years why did this administration all of a sudden decide to pay it? Just asking.
We didn't ignore any rulings. We felt that this ruling was going to come down soon, and it would be in our interest to settle. And we used the payment of that settlement as leverage to keep Iran from backing out of their promise to release the prisoners.
 
Exactly! The release of the hostages were conditional on the money. The Iranians made sure the world saw this as ransom.

I'm glad they are home, but release of the hostages should have been a condition of future negotiations of the Iran nukes negotiations. Do you think Iran would have put their $150 billion and opening of oil contracts at risk over a few hostages? Iran wanted the sanctions lifted. The way the deal works, they can now resume their nuclear program at will.
The Iranians made sure Republicans with ODS saw this as ransom, nothing more.
 
Whether you guys call this ransom or not Iran and and everyone else taking hostages look at it like ransom.

If we ignored The Hague's ruling all these years why did this administration all of a sudden decide to pay it? Just asking.

The simple answer is that The case only reached the Tribunal in 2015,and Iran was asking for $10 BILLION.According to this article from Fortune Magazine,the common assumption was that the Tribunal was about to issue a binding award of $ 4 BILLION...

Get the facts, as opposed to the spin, behind the controversy.

On January 17, the same day five American hostages were released from custody in Iran, a jetliner dispatched from the U.S. delivered $400 million in cash to Tehran’s Mehrabad Airport. Heightening the air of skulduggery, Iranian guards unloaded pallets loaded not with U.S. dollars but Swiss francs, euros and other foreign currencies.

The shipment was a secret until The Wall Street Journal broke the story on August 2. Since then, Republicans from Donald Trump to Paul Ryan have assailed the White House for paying a gigantic ransom when government-paid ransom is barred under U.S. law, and for hiding the ploy from a public already highly skeptical of the U.S.-Iran nuclear agreement.President Obama denied the payment to Tehran was a ransom. The White House contends the payment simply settled a decades-long financial dispute, and that the settlement was fully disclosed in January—although at the time, officials made no mention that the $400 million arrived in Iran the same as the hostages were freed, a confluence of events bound to arouse suspicion.


So what are the facts, as opposed to the spin, behind the $400 million controversy?

What’s Behind the Financial Dispute Between the U.S. and Iran?
In November 1979, Iran’s revolutionary government took 52 Americans hostages at the U.S. embassy, and the U.S. severed diplomatic relations with Tehran. In retaliation, Washington froze $12 billion in Iranian assets held on our shores. The hostage crisis was resolved in 1981 at a conference in Algiers, and the U.S. returned $3 billion to Iran, with more funds going either to pay creditors, or into escrow. The two nations also established a tribunal in the Hague called the Iran United States Claims Tribunal to settle claims both leveled by each government against the other, U.S. citizens versus Iran, and vice versa.

The major issue between the two governments was a $400 million payment for military equipment made by the government of the Shah of Iran, prior to the 1979 uprising that topped him. The U.S. banned delivery of the jets and other weapons amid the hostage crisis, but froze the $400 million advance payment. “The Pentagon handled arms purchases from foreign countries,” says Gary Sick, a former National Security Council official who served as the principal White House aide for Iran during the Iranian Revolution and the hostage crisis. “Defense took care of the details. So the $400 million scheduled purchase was a government-to-government transaction. The U.S. government was holding the money. That’s why it was so difficult to resolve.”

By 2015, the issue stood before a panel of nine judges, including three independent jurists, who were reportedly near a decision on binding arbitration. According to Obama administration officials, the U.S. was concerned that the tribunal would mandate an award in the multiple billions of dollars. “The Iranians wanted $10 billion,” says Sick.”I estimate that the tribunal would have awarded them $4 billion. That’s what the lawyers were saying. It’s not as much as they wanted, but a lot more than we paid.”

So instead, the U.S. negotiators convinced Iran to move the dispute from arbitration to a private settlement. The two sides reached an agreement in mid-2015, at the same time as the U.S. and Iran reached a comprehensive pact on curtailing Iran’s development of nuclear weapons. The financial deal called for the U.S. to refund $1.7 billion to Tehran, consisting of the original $400 million contract for military equipment, plus $1.3 billion in interest.

What Did the White House Say About the $400 Million…and When Did They Say It?
The U.S. announced the controversial nuclear deal with Iran on July 13, 2015. At a news conference on January 16, President Obama declared that the U.S. was lifting the first raft of sanctions against Iran. He also stated that the U.S. would return $1.7 billion to Iran, as agreed in the negotiations at the Hague. That same day, Tehran released the U.S. hostages, and the U.S. freed seven Iranians detained for violating financial and other U.S. sanctions on their home country. Hence, the return of the five Americans appeared to be one side of a prisoner exchange with Tehran.

But Obama didn’t mention that the same day, $400 million was being shipped over 6000 miles for deposit in Iran’s treasury. “Normally you’d use a bank transfer,” says Sick. “But Congress banned dollar transfers to Iran, so the government had to find another way. So they bought foreign currency, and transferred it in cash.”

Why the $400 Million Wasn’t Ransom
The deal’s defenders insist that the financial negotiations were totally separate from both the nuclear deal and the hostage talks, and were led by three separate teams. It’s impossible to verify or refute that information.

A stronger argument is that the U.S. had to make a big payment to Iran because of a 35-year-old deal for weapons that were never received. It wasn’t a matter of if, but when and how much. Washington was worried that the tribunal would impose a payment of several billion dollars, as Tehran demanded, and grabbed the opportunity to settle for the $1.7 billion as part of a overall pact at the same time Iran was benefiting from the nuclear agreement.

It’s also reasonable to ask why Iran would release hostages in exchange for $400 million, when—according to the deal’s defenders—it was bound to get at least that amount from the Hague anyway, and could keep the hostages to boot. Of course, it’s impossible to verify if Tehran was truly convinced a bigger, though later, settlement was likely. Still, it’s clear that the payout from the $400 million dispute was coming, and would happen with or without a release of hostages.

“This was not a quid pro quo for hostages,” saysBarbara Slavin, acting director of the Future of Iran Initiative at the Atlantic Council. “It was an opportunity for countries with no diplomatic relations to clear away a number of diplomatic disputes. For the U.S, it was important to get back the detained Americans, and the Iranians wanted their seven citizens out of jail.”

Slavin adds that most of the recent coverage of the U.S.-Iran dealings ignores the importance of the prisoner exchange.

According to Sick: “It was all taken care of at the same time, through separate channels. It was a good deal for U.S. taxpayers, the U.S. obeyed the law, and the payment was always going to happen anyway.”

If It Walks Like a Duck…
The Iranian press and military enthusiastically spun the payment as ransom, and more proof of how Tehran had rolled the U.S. in the nuclear talks.

Most of all, the tale of cash going one way and prisoners the other, all on the same day, just doesn’t look right. The suspicion is that the teams working on the financial, hostage and weapons negotiations did indeed collaborate, and that the hostage release was the essential sweetener needed to clinch the highly controversial nuclear agreement that’s a pillar of Obama’s legacy.

The “sweetener” view may have some validity. Sick concedes that the deal did “let the Iranian hardliners say they got something in the nuclear deal. Iran was happy to get the cash back. Perhaps that made it easier for them to give up the prisoners, I don’t know.” He doesn’t believe the three teams of negotiators were working together. “The negotiations for the hostages were totally separate channels, and handled by the Swiss,” he says.

For more on Iran, watch this Fortune video:


“The optics do look bad, and the timing was awkward,” says Slavin, a supporter of the nuclear agreement. “But it wasn’t a package deal.”

History Will Judge
The dispute indeed hands the Republicans a bludgeon in the presidential campaign. But its most important legacy relates to future hostage-taking and terrorism. The Iranian government may well interpret the chapter not as the resolution to a decades-old financial dispute, but as a capitulation to ransom. If so, why not capture more hostages, and collect more millions from the cowardly Americans?

“It wasn’t a quid pro quo, but that’s the way the Iranians may have interpreted it,” concludes Slavin. “The Iranians arrest people for no reason. It doesn’t help that three Americans are still in Iranian jails. I understand that it could encourage more hostage-taking.”

Slavin still insists that the U.S. did the right thing settling a financial issue that was festering for over three decades. Indeed, America’s motives were probably justifiable, though the optics are anything but good. In the future, it will be whether Iran views the affair as either a favorable business deal or an incentive to take more hostages that will determine whether this longstanding sponsor of terrorism rejoins the community of nations.

http://fortune.com/2016/08/05/money-america-iran/
 
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There's no "maybe" here. If Iran doesn't release the hostages, the U.S. doesn't pay, even if webowe them the money. We've admitted that tie several weeks after we previously denied any connection.

You guys are tying yourselves into knots trying to craft a misrepresentation that isn't believable by anyone, as the U.S. has now acknowledged. It's not the first time the U.S. has done this, and it won't be the last. But your (and several other's) insistence that those little turds in the punch bowl are really orange slices makes you look like silly partisans who can't think for yourselves.

It's the other way around. Look up the definition of ransom. You're free to interpret it however you want. Then there's the way that fits the actual definition of the words.
 
People who regulate international banking are hesitant to deal with Iran. Because they take hostages as a business practice.

Not our POTUS. Pallets o' francs and hills o' bills.

Thanks Obama!

Do you call it hostage taking when American police arrest American citizens on the streets committing criminal acts?

If you travel to a foreign country on a foreign passport you deserve no consular services. It's simply outrageous we are even active in these cases.
 
People who regulate international banking are hesitant to deal with Iran. Because they take hostages as a business practice.

Not our POTUS. Pallets o' francs and hills o' bills.

Thanks Obama!
Obama is now funding a state that supports state sponsored terror making him essentially a sponsor of terror. Most likely against Israel and Obama has done about as much as one could to burn all diplomatic ties with that country.
 
Obama is now funding a state that supports state sponsored terror making him essentially a sponsor of terror. Most likely against Israel and Obama has done about as much as one could to burn all diplomatic ties with that country.

Have you seen the recent US Israel military funding negotiations? We are paying them hand over fist.
 
Obama is now funding a state that supports state sponsored terror making him essentially a sponsor of terror. Most likely against Israel and Obama has done about as much as one could to burn all diplomatic ties with that country.
Does Barrack H Obama's name sound like yours or theirs?
 
It's the other way around. Look up the definition of ransom. You're free to interpret it however you want. Then there's the way that fits the actual definition of the words.
And the way that fits your extreme partisanship, which is why you're not taken seriously here. But I'll ask the question again that you keep avoiding: If the hostages aren't released, does the money get paid? And why did you and a few others argue that there was no linkage, when there clearly was? Petty partisanship, and nothing more.
 
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We didn't ignore any rulings. We felt that this ruling was going to come down soon, and it would be in our interest to settle. And we used the payment of that settlement as leverage to keep Iran from backing out of their promise to release the prisoners.

If that's really the facts fine. Facts are hard to come by on this subject.
 
The simple answer is that The case only reached the Tribunal in 2015,and Iran was asking for $10 BILLION.According to this article from Fortune Magazine,the common assumption was that the Tribunal was about to issue a binding award of $ 4 BILLION...

Get the facts, as opposed to the spin, behind the controversy.

On January 17, the same day five American hostages were released from custody in Iran, a jetliner dispatched from the U.S. delivered $400 million in cash to Tehran’s Mehrabad Airport. Heightening the air of skulduggery, Iranian guards unloaded pallets loaded not with U.S. dollars but Swiss francs, euros and other foreign currencies.

The shipment was a secret until The Wall Street Journal broke the story on August 2. Since then, Republicans from Donald Trump to Paul Ryan have assailed the White House for paying a gigantic ransom when government-paid ransom is barred under U.S. law, and for hiding the ploy from a public already highly skeptical of the U.S.-Iran nuclear agreement.President Obama denied the payment to Tehran was a ransom. The White House contends the payment simply settled a decades-long financial dispute, and that the settlement was fully disclosed in January—although at the time, officials made no mention that the $400 million arrived in Iran the same as the hostages were freed, a confluence of events bound to arouse suspicion.


So what are the facts, as opposed to the spin, behind the $400 million controversy?

What’s Behind the Financial Dispute Between the U.S. and Iran?
In November 1979, Iran’s revolutionary government took 52 Americans hostages at the U.S. embassy, and the U.S. severed diplomatic relations with Tehran. In retaliation, Washington froze $12 billion in Iranian assets held on our shores. The hostage crisis was resolved in 1981 at a conference in Algiers, and the U.S. returned $3 billion to Iran, with more funds going either to pay creditors, or into escrow. The two nations also established a tribunal in the Hague called the Iran United States Claims Tribunal to settle claims both leveled by each government against the other, U.S. citizens versus Iran, and vice versa.

The major issue between the two governments was a $400 million payment for military equipment made by the government of the Shah of Iran, prior to the 1979 uprising that topped him. The U.S. banned delivery of the jets and other weapons amid the hostage crisis, but froze the $400 million advance payment. “The Pentagon handled arms purchases from foreign countries,” says Gary Sick, a former National Security Council official who served as the principal White House aide for Iran during the Iranian Revolution and the hostage crisis. “Defense took care of the details. So the $400 million scheduled purchase was a government-to-government transaction. The U.S. government was holding the money. That’s why it was so difficult to resolve.”

By 2015, the issue stood before a panel of nine judges, including three independent jurists, who were reportedly near a decision on binding arbitration. According to Obama administration officials, the U.S. was concerned that the tribunal would mandate an award in the multiple billions of dollars. “The Iranians wanted $10 billion,” says Sick.”I estimate that the tribunal would have awarded them $4 billion. That’s what the lawyers were saying. It’s not as much as they wanted, but a lot more than we paid.”

So instead, the U.S. negotiators convinced Iran to move the dispute from arbitration to a private settlement. The two sides reached an agreement in mid-2015, at the same time as the U.S. and Iran reached a comprehensive pact on curtailing Iran’s development of nuclear weapons. The financial deal called for the U.S. to refund $1.7 billion to Tehran, consisting of the original $400 million contract for military equipment, plus $1.3 billion in interest.

What Did the White House Say About the $400 Million…and When Did They Say It?
The U.S. announced the controversial nuclear deal with Iran on July 13, 2015. At a news conference on January 16, President Obama declared that the U.S. was lifting the first raft of sanctions against Iran. He also stated that the U.S. would return $1.7 billion to Iran, as agreed in the negotiations at the Hague. That same day, Tehran released the U.S. hostages, and the U.S. freed seven Iranians detained for violating financial and other U.S. sanctions on their home country. Hence, the return of the five Americans appeared to be one side of a prisoner exchange with Tehran.

But Obama didn’t mention that the same day, $400 million was being shipped over 6000 miles for deposit in Iran’s treasury. “Normally you’d use a bank transfer,” says Sick. “But Congress banned dollar transfers to Iran, so the government had to find another way. So they bought foreign currency, and transferred it in cash.”

Why the $400 Million Wasn’t Ransom
The deal’s defenders insist that the financial negotiations were totally separate from both the nuclear deal and the hostage talks, and were led by three separate teams. It’s impossible to verify or refute that information.

A stronger argument is that the U.S. had to make a big payment to Iran because of a 35-year-old deal for weapons that were never received. It wasn’t a matter of if, but when and how much. Washington was worried that the tribunal would impose a payment of several billion dollars, as Tehran demanded, and grabbed the opportunity to settle for the $1.7 billion as part of a overall pact at the same time Iran was benefiting from the nuclear agreement.

It’s also reasonable to ask why Iran would release hostages in exchange for $400 million, when—according to the deal’s defenders—it was bound to get at least that amount from the Hague anyway, and could keep the hostages to boot. Of course, it’s impossible to verify if Tehran was truly convinced a bigger, though later, settlement was likely. Still, it’s clear that the payout from the $400 million dispute was coming, and would happen with or without a release of hostages.

“This was not a quid pro quo for hostages,” saysBarbara Slavin, acting director of the Future of Iran Initiative at the Atlantic Council. “It was an opportunity for countries with no diplomatic relations to clear away a number of diplomatic disputes. For the U.S, it was important to get back the detained Americans, and the Iranians wanted their seven citizens out of jail.”

Slavin adds that most of the recent coverage of the U.S.-Iran dealings ignores the importance of the prisoner exchange.

According to Sick: “It was all taken care of at the same time, through separate channels. It was a good deal for U.S. taxpayers, the U.S. obeyed the law, and the payment was always going to happen anyway.”

If It Walks Like a Duck…
The Iranian press and military enthusiastically spun the payment as ransom, and more proof of how Tehran had rolled the U.S. in the nuclear talks.

Most of all, the tale of cash going one way and prisoners the other, all on the same day, just doesn’t look right. The suspicion is that the teams working on the financial, hostage and weapons negotiations did indeed collaborate, and that the hostage release was the essential sweetener needed to clinch the highly controversial nuclear agreement that’s a pillar of Obama’s legacy.

The “sweetener” view may have some validity. Sick concedes that the deal did “let the Iranian hardliners say they got something in the nuclear deal. Iran was happy to get the cash back. Perhaps that made it easier for them to give up the prisoners, I don’t know.” He doesn’t believe the three teams of negotiators were working together. “The negotiations for the hostages were totally separate channels, and handled by the Swiss,” he says.

For more on Iran, watch this Fortune video:


“The optics do look bad, and the timing was awkward,” says Slavin, a supporter of the nuclear agreement. “But it wasn’t a package deal.”

History Will Judge
The dispute indeed hands the Republicans a bludgeon in the presidential campaign. But its most important legacy relates to future hostage-taking and terrorism. The Iranian government may well interpret the chapter not as the resolution to a decades-old financial dispute, but as a capitulation to ransom. If so, why not capture more hostages, and collect more millions from the cowardly Americans?

“It wasn’t a quid pro quo, but that’s the way the Iranians may have interpreted it,” concludes Slavin. “The Iranians arrest people for no reason. It doesn’t help that three Americans are still in Iranian jails. I understand that it could encourage more hostage-taking.”

Slavin still insists that the U.S. did the right thing settling a financial issue that was festering for over three decades. Indeed, America’s motives were probably justifiable, though the optics are anything but good. In the future, it will be whether Iran views the affair as either a favorable business deal or an incentive to take more hostages that will determine whether this longstanding sponsor of terrorism rejoins the community of nations.

http://fortune.com/2016/08/05/money-america-iran/

Here's the problem

Nothing happened with this claim for about 40 years. Now the claim becomes a big potential US liability in the year Obama reaches an agreement with the Mulluhs on their nukes. And the nuke deal looks like Obama caved on a number of points, including unannounced inspections. I think there were good defenses to our payment to Iran which is why the case languished for decades after all other cases were concluded. It looks like Obama caved on that deal also.
 
Have you seen the recent US Israel military funding negotiations? We are paying them hand over fist.
I haven't seen it I'm referring to Obama's treatment of Netanyahu and his deal with Iran that was like kicking dirt in Israel's face.

We have two allies in the Middle East, Israel and the Kurds. Iran openly wishes destruction on us and Israel. The sanctions were choking Iran and there was no upside for us to be at a negotiating table with them. None.
 
And the way that fits your extreme partisanship, which is why you're not taken seriously here. But I'll ask the question again that you keep avoiding: If the hostages aren't released, does the money get paid? And why did you and a few others argue that there was no linkage, when there clearly was? Petty partisanship, and nothing more.

Now dictionaries are partisan. I think the foil is in aisle 5.
 
Obama is now funding a state that supports state sponsored terror making him essentially a sponsor of terror. Most likely against Israel and Obama has done about as much as one could to burn all diplomatic ties with that country.

Except that it was Trump who was informed he wasn't welcome in Israel after making his "ban all Muslims" pledge.And the Israeli public opinion polls must be run by the same people who are putting out all those (according to Team Trump) "phoney" polls here because they show he's as popular with the Israeli public as he is with US voters...

http://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-says-hell-visit-israel-where-he-thinks-everyone-likes-him/
 
I do. I didn't know what you were referring to. Negotiations aren't about the funding, but about how they spend it, and I think the Obama administration is right on their stance in this case.
On a very brief reading of this issue (which I was completely oblivious to until just now), my only question is: why hasn't this been the policy since the beginning? I'm no fan of the military-industrial complex, but if we're going to use American tax dollars to pay for Israeli military equipment, shouldn't we at least make sure that American arms manufacturers and their the employees are the ones doing the work?
 
I do. I didn't know what you were referring to. Negotiations aren't about the funding, but about how they spend it, and I think the Obama administration is right on their stance in this case.

There is an ongoing negotiation about not only how they will spend the $, but also how much they will receive and over what time period.
 
On a very brief reading of this issue (which I was completely oblivious to until just now), my only question is: why hasn't this been the policy since the beginning? I'm no fan of the military-industrial complex, but if we're going to use American tax dollars to pay for Israeli military equipment, shouldn't we at least make sure that American arms manufacturers and their the employees are the ones doing the work?
Yes, usually. We bought some Russian arms and helicopters for Afghanistan because that's what they knew and could use and we felt it was in both our interests to do it. We have had exceptions for Israel because they are surrounded by enemies and we agreed with them that they needed more arms and specific defense equipment than they could buy from the US, even with our money.
 
There is an ongoing negotiation about not only how they will spend the $, but also how much they will receive and over what time period.
Nothing new about the funding part. It's always under negotiation, but it hasn't changed much in decades. It won't change much anytime soon either.
 
There's no "maybe" here. If Iran doesn't release the hostages, the U.S. doesn't pay, even if webowe them the money. We've admitted that tie several weeks after we previously denied any connection.

You guys are tying yourselves into knots trying to craft a misrepresentation that isn't believable by anyone, as the U.S. has now acknowledged. It's not the first time the U.S. has done this, and it won't be the last. But your (and several other's) insistence that those little turds in the punch bowl are really orange slices makes you look like silly partisans who can't think for yourselves.

You seem to draw (dubious) conclusions based on (whatever?),which don't mesh with what Sick said.Sick is a former (Reagan) official who felt that Iran would get $ 4 BILLION if we waited for a decision from the Tribunal.Now even if he is one of the GOPers that is anti-Trump (which I have no idea on) and is supporting HRC in the current election,that would not necessarily translate to wanting to carry water for the BO Admin.In fact it seems to me ALL of the high profile GOPers that are part of never Trump are still continuing to criticize the Obama Admin.So I'd say this guy is both non-partisan and informed,which I doubt is an apt description of you on either score...

“The Pentagon handled arms purchases from foreign countries,” says Gary Sick, a former National Security Council official who served as the principal White House aide for Iran during the Iranian Revolution and the hostage crisis. “Defense took care of the details. So the $400 million scheduled purchase was a government-to-government transaction. The U.S. government was holding the money. That’s why it was so difficult to resolve.”

By 2015, the issue stood before a panel of nine judges, including three independent jurists, who were reportedly near a decision on binding arbitration. According to Obama administration officials, the U.S. was concerned that the tribunal would mandate an award in the multiple billions of dollars. “The Iranians wanted $10 billion,” says Sick.”I estimate that the tribunal would have awarded them $4 billion. That’s what the lawyers were saying. It’s not as much as they wanted, but a lot more than we paid.”
 
You seem to draw (dubious) conclusions based on (whatever?),which don't mesh with what Sick said.Sick is a former (Reagan) official who felt that Iran would get $ 4 BILLION if we waited for a decision from the Tribunal.Now even if he is one of the GOPers that is anti-Trump (which I have no idea on) and is supporting HRC in the current election,that would not necessarily translate to wanting to carry water for the BO Admin.In fact it seems to me ALL of the high profile GOPers that are part of never Trump are still continuing to criticize the Obama Admin.So I'd say this guy is both non-partisan and informed,which I doubt is an apt description of you on either score...

“The Pentagon handled arms purchases from foreign countries,” says Gary Sick, a former National Security Council official who served as the principal White House aide for Iran during the Iranian Revolution and the hostage crisis. “Defense took care of the details. So the $400 million scheduled purchase was a government-to-government transaction. The U.S. government was holding the money. That’s why it was so difficult to resolve.”

By 2015, the issue stood before a panel of nine judges, including three independent jurists, who were reportedly near a decision on binding arbitration. According to Obama administration officials, the U.S. was concerned that the tribunal would mandate an award in the multiple billions of dollars. “The Iranians wanted $10 billion,” says Sick.”I estimate that the tribunal would have awarded them $4 billion. That’s what the lawyers were saying. It’s not as much as they wanted, but a lot more than we paid.”

Once again

This claim languished in the 80's, the 90's, and the first 15 years of the 2000's. Meanwhile the other claims were heard and resolved. As you know, there was an escrow established when the agreement was reached to secure return if Iranian funds. This money was never part of the escrow.

I think timelines are important in understanding events. The time line of this claim coming to conclusion in the months Obama was finishing his bad nuke deal raises questions that I'd like to see answers to.
 
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You seem to draw (dubious) conclusions based on (whatever?),which don't mesh with what Sick said.Sick is a former (Reagan) official who felt that Iran would get $ 4 BILLION if we waited for a decision from the Tribunal.Now even if he is one of the GOPers that is anti-Trump (which I have no idea on) and is supporting HRC in the current election,that would not necessarily translate to wanting to carry water for the BO Admin.In fact it seems to me ALL of the high profile GOPers that are part of never Trump are still continuing to criticize the Obama Admin.So I'd say this guy is both non-partisan and informed,which I doubt is an apt description of you on either score...

“The Pentagon handled arms purchases from foreign countries,” says Gary Sick, a former National Security Council official who served as the principal White House aide for Iran during the Iranian Revolution and the hostage crisis. “Defense took care of the details. So the $400 million scheduled purchase was a government-to-government transaction. The U.S. government was holding the money. That’s why it was so difficult to resolve.”

By 2015, the issue stood before a panel of nine judges, including three independent jurists, who were reportedly near a decision on binding arbitration. According to Obama administration officials, the U.S. was concerned that the tribunal would mandate an award in the multiple billions of dollars. “The Iranians wanted $10 billion,” says Sick.”I estimate that the tribunal would have awarded them $4 billion. That’s what the lawyers were saying. It’s not as much as they wanted, but a lot more than we paid.”
It's an easy question that you're obviously unable or unwilling to answer: Does the U.S. pay if the hostages aren't released? Is this really so challenging for you and the other partisans?
 
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