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Pssst... Goat...

I'm missing some responses on here due to the ignore function, but didn't the Colts win the championship against Houston a few weeks ago? There have been other games since then? I wondered why Justin Timberlake didn't perform at halftime.

I guess I'll have to see who is playing in the Superbowl and cheer for the team that isn't the Patriots.
 
hookyIU1990 said:
m8Nbyks.png


It's the system. Even this guy was 11-5 as a starter.
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And also 3 of the 5 championships were gift wrapped to him. The Tuck Rule, Pete Carroll calling that idiotic pass, and the Falcons not kicking the FG when they had it at the 20. On the reverse Peyton had 3 stolen from due to Vandershank against the Steelers, Freeney's freak injury before playing the Saints, and of course Hail Flacco.
 
You are seriously going to talk about gift-wrapped super bowls, when Peyton Manning won his first one over the mighty Rex Grossman and his second one in arguably the worst season ever played by any Super Bowl winning quarterback, a year where at one point he was benched for BROCK OSWEILER?

LOL, you are a trip!
 
TheOriginalHappyGoat said:
Manning was literally the worst QB in the league that year. That defense won the super bowl, without any help from Manning.
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just to back this up..

Peyton that year: 9 TDs, 17 INTs, quarterback rating 67.9
Trent Dilfer in 2000:12 TDs, 11 INTs, quarterback rating 76.6
Jim Sorgi's career: 6 TDs, 1 INT, QB rating 89.9

That year, Manning was a homeless man's Trent Dilfer.
 
outside shooter said:
You are seriously going to talk about gift-wrapped super bowls, when Peyton Manning won his first one over the mighty Rex Grossman and his second one in arguably the worst season ever played by any Super Bowl winning quarterback, a year where at one point he was benched for BROCK OSWEILER?

LOL, you are a trip!
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And who did Manning beat on his way to the Super Bowl? What was Manning's record vs Brady in the playoffs?
 
13thman said:
And who did Manning beat on his way to the Super Bowl?
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The Patriots, aided by a blown touchdown call for which the league had to issue an apology.

https://www.patspulpit.com/2007/1/27/131636/578

As first reported on the Jacksonville Jaguars website by senior editor Vic Ketchman, the pass interference call on Ellis Hobbs in the AFC Championship game was completely wrong.

That penalty gave the Indianapolis Colts a 1st-and-goal at the New England Patriots 1-yard line instead of a 3rd-and-long from the 19. It amounted to free points for the Colts who were nearly out of the game and was a major cog in the Indy's comeback.

Ketchman called the game's replay official, Dean Blandino, who works in the league office.

"There is no such thing as face-guarding," added Greg Aiello, the NFL's vice president of communications e-mailed yesterday. "There must be contact to have a foul."

As for the contention that the Patriots still needed to make plays, that's true. But they had just made a cross-country trip to face a brutal San Deigo squad the week before, made another trip to play the Colts, and several key players had the flu. It was crystal clear in the fourth quarter that they were utterly spent. How long do you think the defense could hold back Indy when ball calls by the game officials were keeping the defense on the field?

The Colts also famously overheated the Patriots locker room into the 80s.

That's what shithole franchises do.
 
iubud said:
I'm missing some responses on here due to the ignore function, but didn't the Colts win the championship against Houston a few weeks ago? There have been other games since then? I wondered why Justin Timberlake didn't perform at halftime.

I guess I'll have to see who is playing in the Superbowl and cheer for the team that isn't the Patriots.
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You may have two choices. Don't count out Jax. Second-best D in the league, and probably the very best when it comes to pressuring the QB. Everyone picking the Pats this week will tell you that there is no way Bortles outplays Brady, which is almost certainly true, but irrelevant. You don't beat Brady by outplaying him. You beat him by harassing him the entire game. Jax can do that.
 
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outside shooter said:
In 2008 Cassel indeed went 11-5, with the team that had gone 16-0 previously. In 2008 the Patriots happened to play the entire divisions that were the worst in their respective conferences, after in 2007 playing the entire divisions that were the best in their respective conferences.
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1....Another lie. Cassel did NOT go 11-5 in 2008 with the team that went 16-0 previously. That would imply that both the 2007 and 2008 rosters were EXACTLY the same. Which they weren't. Therefore, they aren't the same team. I would have thought such a detail oriented scientist like yourself wouldn't be so careless with the "facts".

2....Making excuses about schedules. Such a mewling quim thing to do...

3....How are you able to post here with your hands fondling Brady's balls and ass. Well...maybe you have a mumble to text app that allows you to post when you're blowing Brady.
 
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TheOriginalHappyGoat said:
Second-best D in the league, and probably the very best when it comes to pressuring the QB... You beat him by harassing him the entire game. Jax can do that.
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This great defense has allowed 42 or more points in 2 of their last 4 games.

Jags allowing 18.4 ppg over their last 11 games
Pats allowing 13.7 ppg over their last 11 games

Jags started the year off playing great D
Pats started the year off playing awful D

To a certain extent, they have flip-flopped
 
outside shooter said:
This great defense has allowed 42 or more points in 2 of their last 4 games.

Jags allowing 18.4 ppg over their last 11 games
Pats allowing 13.7 ppg over their last 11 games

Jags started the year off playing great D
Pats started the year off playing awful D

To a certain extent, they have flip-flopped
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LOL. No, they have not flip-flopped to any extent. NE doesn't have a terrible D, for sure, but it's nowhere close to Jax's (or either NFC entrant, for that matter).
 
Over the entire season, definitely Jacksonville has the better overall defense. But over the last half of the season the Patriots D is better in points allowed, yards allowed, even in sacks.

Jacksonville had 55 sacks for the season, which looks impressive. They had 35 of their 55 sacks in the first half of the season; only 20 in the second half. 20 of them came in 2 early season games, 10 each against Indy and Houston. Second meeting with these garbage teams? 4 sacks each. They also had 5 each against the Jets and Browns.

10 games that weren’t against Indy, Houston, the Jets or Browns, they totaled 17 sacks. Not great, not even good,

Jags pass rush in 2 games vs the Titans- 4 sacks total. Pats pass rush in 1 game vs the Titans- 8 sacks.

"Sacksonville" seems to have been early season phenomenon in games vs. the little sisters of the poor.

They are not as bad as the Vikings 10th-rated scoring offense, but as a unit, they are being oversold, in my opinion.

We shall find out, though.
 
You obviously know the Vikings better than most

How many Vikings quarterbacks are better than Blake Bortles, 0, 1, 2, or 3?

I say 2, but with a few more looks at Teddy B, I might say 3, if he is in one piece again.
 
outside shooter said:
Over the entire season, definitely Jacksonville has the better overall defense. But over the last half of the season the Patriots D is better in points allowed, yards allowed, even in sacks.

Jacksonville had 55 sacks for the season, which looks impressive. They had 35 of their 55 sacks in the first half of the season; only 20 in the second half. 20 of them came in 2 early season games, 10 each against Indy and Houston. Second meeting with these garbage teams? 4 sacks each. They also had 5 each against the Jets and Browns.

10 games that weren’t against Indy, Houston, the Jets or Browns, they totaled 17 sacks. Not great, not even good,

Jags pass rush in 2 games vs the Titans- 4 sacks total. Pats pass rush in 1 game vs the Titans- 8 sacks.

"Sacksonville" seems to have been early season phenomenon in games vs. the little sisters of the poor.

They are not as bad as the Vikings 10th-rated scoring offense, but as a unit, they are being oversold, in my opinion.

We shall find out, though.
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Cherry pick all you want, but the big picture is clear - and the big picture is almost always right (excluding major injuries, full-season performance is a better predictor of future success than splits). The NE defense is decent, but it's nothing like the other teams that are left, including Jax.

Fact is, it's almost impossible to beat New England without pressuring Brady. You don't pressure him, you lose. Period. You do pressure him, you at least have a chance. Jacksonville will pressure him. Doesn't mean they will win, but they will have a shot.
 
outside shooter said:
You obviously know the Vikings better than most

How many Vikings quarterbacks are better than Blake Bortles, 0, 1, 2, or 3?

I say 2, but with a few more looks at Teddy B, I might say 3, if he is in one piece again.
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Well, if the only one you are unsure of is Teddy, then the answer is 3, since he's the best QB on the Vikes' roster, assuming his knee healed fine.
 
TheOriginalHappyGoat said:
The NE defense is decent, but it's nothing like the other teams that are left, including Jax.
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It's the #5 scoring D and the #2 scoring D. Let's not pretend that is an enormous gap. Minn was #1 and Philly #4.

Plus the #5 scoring D (NE) has been the league's #1 scoring D over the past 10 games.

It's like you saying that Duke's mens basketball team (ranked #5) is NOTHING like, and is far inferior to, Virginia's mens basketball team (#2), or Villanova (#1), or Oklahoma (#4). Silly.

The line has dropped from 9.5 to 7 with the Brady hand injury.
 
outside shooter said:
It's the #5 scoring D and the #2 scoring D. Let's not pretend that is an enormous gap. Minn was #1 and Philly #4.

Plus the #5 scoring D (NE) has been the league's #1 scoring D over the past 10 games.

It's like you saying that Duke's mens basketball team (ranked #5) is NOTHING like, and is far inferior to, Virginia's mens basketball team (#2), or Villanova (#1), or Oklahoma (#4). Silly.

The line has dropped from 9.5 to 7 with the Brady hand injury.
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NE was 29th in yards this year, 24th in first downs allowed, 21st in 3rd down conversion allowed. They are top 5 in scoring defense only because they've been very much a bend-don't-break defense. Is it possible they are just really good at tightening up the defense as soon as the opponent gets inside the 40? Maybe. Could it be a statistical artifact? More likely.

No one with any brains thinks NE's D is anywhere near as good as the other three still alive. You can cherry pick the one or two stats that look really good all you want; they others are much more humbling, and there is a reason for that - New England's defense is lacking.
 
LOL, don't you hate it when those teams you're playing put all of those YARDS up on the scoreboard! Oh wait...

I thought you were semi-intelligent about football but you're like the Coltish Manning ball-sucker morons. Yards allowed has never meant shit.
 
Where do you think Bill Belichick's defenses in NE have ranked, on average, throughout his entire career in yards allowed?

not top 5
not top 10
not even top 15
maybe not even top 20
(last I checked, years back, it was #18, tied with the Colts)

It is not unusual for them to have a BOTTOM 10 defense in yards allowed and a TOP 5 defense in points allowed.

Statistical artifact? For most of, if not all of, 18 years in a row?

Your sheer stupidity in not knowing this, at all, is stunning.

You're like a flat Earther of NFL knowledge.
 
Patriots team defensive rankings

2001 Defense, points against: 6th; yards against: 24th
2002 Defense, points against: 17th; yards against: 23rd
2003 Defense, points against: 1st; yards against: 7th
2004 Defense, points against: 2nd; yards against: 9th
2005 Defense, points against: 17th; yards against: 26th
2006 Defense, points against: 2nd; yards against: 6th
2007 Defense, points against: 4th; yards against: 4th
2008 Defense, points against: 8th; yards against: 10th
2009 Defense, points against: 5th; yards against: 11th
2010 Defense, points against: 8th; yards against: 25th
2011 Defense, points against: 15th; yards against: 31st
2012 Defense, points against: 9th; yards against: 25th
2013 Defense, points against: 10th; yards against: 26th
2014 Defense, points against: 8th; yards against: 13th
2015 Defense, points against: 10th; yards against: 9th
2016 Defense, points against: 1st; yards against: 8th
2017 Defense, points against: 5th; yards against: 28th

Average: points against: 7.5; yards against: 16.8

5 times with a top 10 defense by points, but a bottom 10 defense by yards
1 time in 17 years ranked higher in yards allowed than points allowed (then, by one slot)
8 times in 17 years a bottom 10 defense in yards allowed
14 times in 17 years a top 10 defense in points allowed

I did misspeak about top5/ bottom 10, I was remembering the above breakdown on top 10/ bottom 10

It is absolutely no statistical fluke to see a big spread between the meaningful defensive ranking (points) and the meaningless defensive ranking (yards). It is normal, for the Patriots.
 
TheOriginalHappyGoat said:
It's too bad he's here. Otherwise, we might have a legitimate discussion about the games.
Click to expand...

You could not be involved in an intelligent /legitimate discussion about something you are so woefully ignorant about

Participate in the next NFL games yahoo pick'em contest and take your beating next year when I go for my 4-pete as champion for the forum
 
outside shooter said:
Patriots team defensive rankings

2001 Defense, points against: 6th; yards against: 24th
2002 Defense, points against: 17th; yards against: 23rd
2003 Defense, points against: 1st; yards against: 7th
2004 Defense, points against: 2nd; yards against: 9th
2005 Defense, points against: 17th; yards against: 26th
2006 Defense, points against: 2nd; yards against: 6th
2007 Defense, points against: 4th; yards against: 4th
2008 Defense, points against: 8th; yards against: 10th
2009 Defense, points against: 5th; yards against: 11th
2010 Defense, points against: 8th; yards against: 25th
2011 Defense, points against: 15th; yards against: 31st
2012 Defense, points against: 9th; yards against: 25th
2013 Defense, points against: 10th; yards against: 26th
2014 Defense, points against: 8th; yards against: 13th
2015 Defense, points against: 10th; yards against: 9th
2016 Defense, points against: 1st; yards against: 8th
2017 Defense, points against: 5th; yards against: 28th

Average: points against: 7.5; yards against: 16.8

5 times with a top 10 defense by points, but a bottom 10 defense by yards
1 time in 17 years ranked higher in yards allowed than points allowed (then, by one slot)
8 times in 17 years a bottom 10 defense in yards allowed
14 times in 17 years a top 10 defense in points allowed

I did misspeak about top5/ bottom 10, I was remembering the above breakdown on top 10/ bottom 10

It is absolutely no statistical fluke to see a big spread between the meaningful defensive ranking (points) and the meaningless defensive ranking (yards). It is normal, for the Patriots.
Click to expand...
You said Bottom 10/ Top 5. That only happened once before this year, in 2004. You are changing the standard in order to avoid admitting you were wrong.

(Although I love the fact I made you do all that work.)

You'll also note that the relationship between post-season success and defensive ranking doesn't favor points over yards a bit, especially from 2010-2013, when the Pats had a good scoring defense, but gave up a lot of yards, and couldn't seal the deal.
 
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TheOriginalHappyGoat said:
You said Bottom 10/ Top 5. That only happened once before this year, in 2004. You are changing the standard in order to avoid admitting you were wrong.
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Can you seriously not even read?

I said:
"I did misspeak about top 5/ bottom 10, I was remembering the above breakdown on top 10/ bottom 10"

translation for you: I admitted that I was wrong. On rare instances when I am wrong, that's exactly what I do.

You, on the other hand, will cling to your disproven assertion that a large gap in rankings for the two categories in question is some sort of odd statistical anomaly. Then you move the goalposts and say that well, they didn't win it all in years such-and-such when that happened.

You will do what ever it takes to avoid admitting you were wrong.

I would love it if the Patriots had the pure individual defensive talent of the other three teams. Always drafting in the 30s, they just don't. They just play like they do. Fact: They are #1 scoring defense in the league over the past 12 games.

Coaching goes into that.
Not making turnovers on O and ST plays into that.
ST forcing the opposition to have the worse starting drive field position plays into that.
So does situational awareness.

Good scoring defense is not just having amazing talent. Getting you to understand that, though, is an in-depth discussion of football tactics that would be far beyond your ability to participate or even comprehend.

If I start talking 3-4/4-3 hybrids, two-gapping, cover-2, press man robber concepts, etc., or strategies to combat the Jags base cover 3, your eyes would gloss over
 
outside shooter said:
Can you seriously not even read?

I said:
"I did misspeak about top 5/ bottom 10, I was remembering the above breakdown on top 10/ bottom 10"

translation for you: I admitted that I was wrong. On rare instances when I am wrong, that's exactly what I do.

You, on the other hand, will cling to your disproven assertion that a large gap in rankings for the two categories in question is some sort of odd statistical anomaly. Then you move the goalposts and say that well, they didn't win it all in years such-and-such when that happened.

You will do what ever it takes to avoid admitting you were wrong.

I would love it if the Patriots had the defensive talent of the other three teams. Always drafting in the 30s, they don't. They just play like they do. Fact: They are #1 scoring defense in the league over the past 12 games.

Coaching goes into that.
Not making turnovers on O and ST plays into that.
ST forcing the opposition to have the worse starting drive field position plays into that.
So does situational awareness.

Good scoring defense is not just having amazing talent. Getting you to understand that, though, is an in-depth discussion of football tactics that would be far beyond your ability to participate or even comprehend.

If I start talking 3-4/4-3 hybrids, two-gapping, cover-2, press man robber concepts, etc., or strategies to combat the Jags base cover 3, your eyes would gloss over
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LOL. Please stop acting like you are the smartest one in the room. You aren't.
 
OK, what are the best tools in the Erhardt-Perkins scheme to attack base cover three, assuming no robber? Then, same question, assuming SS robber?

Hints: look to past history vs. Seahawks, the prototypical cover 3 pressure D with a 4-3 front.
 
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You have to think that the Jags go with the corners man-on-man outside with a press cover-3 zone over the middle, but with a robber on Gronk. Normally you'd flood the middle with shallow crosses (think: Edelman) but he's out. Amendola will suffice, but I say it is a big day for the running backs catching passes (White & Burkhead), along with inside runs from Lewis. Trips alignments can confuse the middle zone responsibilities and give Gronk and Dola some quick hitters. This won't be a 50 pass day for TB (unless way behind). I can see it being a heavy no-huddle attack, especially in the second half.

On the other side, Fournette is way more of a threat vs. the Patriots than was Henry, due to Jacksonville's better O-line and due to the fact that Henry was a predictable runner to the left side. Fournette is way more versatile. I won't be surprised if he has a 100 yard game, but I can't see Bortles being accurate and patient enough to lead long sustained drives, thus the key is to take away the deep ball with press man while mixing in blitzes by Chung and by Van Noy to rattle him. The Patriots are vulnerable to TEs down the seam and outside, but on the other hand, that is not a strength of the Jags.

I can see a 1st half chess match for sure and a halftime tie or Jax lead would not surprise me in the least. The Jacksonville offense isn't very versatile, though, so I can see D adjustments taking away whatever it is they have planned with Fournette and presumably Lee.

Jacksonville loves 4th down gambles, fake punts, aggressive play.

Bortles passer rating ahead is >100, behind is 66. If the Patriots get on a roll early, it's over. If the Jags get on a roll early, they may actually sustain it.

The path to victory is there for the Jags but the margin for error is small unless they get turnovers.

I'm thinking this is most likely a Pats win, say 27-17.

I see an easier game for Minnesota, something on the order of 28-13.
 
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