Poll: is Trump’s usage of the term “pocohantas” racist?

[mainway_toys]

So then why doesn't she just own it? If she exploited a loophole, that's exactly what she is denying and why Trump is still going after her.

https://www.politico.com/blogs/burn...rren-harvard-laws-first-woman-of-color-123526

But a 1997 Fordham Law Review piece described her as Harvard Law School's "first woman of color," based, according to the notes at the bottom of the story, on a "telephone interview with Michael Chmura, News Director, Harvard Law (Aug. 6, 1996)."

The mention was in the middle of a lengthy and heavily-annotated Fordham piece on diversity and affirmative action and women. The title of the piece, by Laura Padilla, was "Intersectionality and positionality: Situating women of color in the affirmative action dialogue."

And once again....is that you got? I

I am pretty sure that The Cherokee Nation completely disagrees with you:

"A DNA test is useless to determine tribal citizenship. Current DNA tests do not even distinguish whether a person's ancestors were indigenous to North or South America. Sovereign tribal nations set their own legal requirements for citizenship, and while DNA tests can be used to determine lineage, such as paternity to an individual, it is not evidence for tribal affiliation. Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong. It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is prove. Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage."

- Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin, Jr.

Good for the Cherokee Nation. She has Indian blood. Trump has mad a big deal out this for years.

He needs to pay up....but this is the same guy who needed a to be caught by a Washington Post investgation to make a promised donation to a veterans organization...so fat chance. The guy has always been pure sleaze and always will be.

 

[IUCrazy2]

The Cherokee Nation is not at all happy with her stunt. Does that matter? What about those who share her supposed NA ancestry but are not willing to take advantage of it in any way because, well, it’s the right thing to do?

Most white people in this country share her "NA Ancestry". In fact, she is probably lower on the scale of sharing in that ancestry than the average white person walking around today. Where she separates herself from most whites is that she had the audacity to allow herself to be paraded as a "minority hire" by her employer.

https://politics.theonion.com/elizabeth-warren-disappointed-after-dna-test-shows-zero-1829766407

 

[iuwclurker]

In fairness, I care far less about other things, sans abortion rights. But with Trump, there are very few finance and economic discussions these days. If there are, half of the posts are blaming Trump while the other half blame BO.

My problem is I find the left very whiny and the right to be nutjobs, so I'm stuck in the middle and that makes me vote with my wallet more than anything else.

And voting Trump for your wallet shows your nose goes backwards in time.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I'll say it again, the blame is misplaced. This obsession over short-term results is a fundamental result of changing shifts in investor (really societal) behavior and demands. Just as you didn't have coaches getting fired so quickly into their tenure, you didn't have CEO's being cut less than a year into turnarounds (e.g. GE recently). Somehow, society needs to temper its own expectations.

Do the large retirement funds chase next quarter profits? I honestly do not know. It would seem they would be a bit more risk averse.

Back when I played fantasy sports, it was amazing how many people were desperately seeking the hot hand. If my projections thought the recent call up was going to hit 5 homers, and he hit two in game 1, I didn't want him. He only had three home runs left. But it seemed everyone else would bid like crazy. So yes, I can see there is societal pressure on corporations to have a great next quarter.

Heck, reading the boards some of us know a coach sucks or is great before they coach a single game.

 

[SSB]

I’m not sure I know if it is racist or not. But I’m fairly sure that people who use it and those that are influenced by it are more likely to be racist than people who would refuse to communicate in that manner.

And I’m asking as it specifically relates to him calling Elizabeth Warren “pocohantas”.

If you feel like, please elaborate in a response to the thread. Pretty sure you guys already know where I stand

Also, if anyone here has any Native American friends, I’d really be curious to hear their responses to this question. Or, if you happen to be or identify as Native American, please share your thoughts.

 

[MrBing]

Have you read the article? If not, you really should.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/na...complicated/wUZZcrKKEOUv5Spnb7IO0K/story.html

Thanks for that. It shows that she personally changed her race identification from Caucasian to Native American. It also shows that she probably didn't use it to her advantage for her career. But I don't understand why she'd identify as NA with so little NA blood. I understand why Cherokees would find that offensive because I find it offensive as a minority also. There's more to being a minority or a race than having a distant relative that is one. I've been a fan of Warren but this is disappointing.

Yes I will still vote for her over Trump if it comes down to that.

 

[wiede]

Most white people in this country share her "NA Ancestry". In fact, she is probably lower on the scale of sharing in that ancestry than the average white person walking around today. Where she separates herself from most whites is that she had the audacity to allow herself to be paraded as a "minority hire" by her employer.

https://politics.theonion.com/elizabeth-warren-disappointed-after-dna-test-shows-zero-1829766407

Did you really just quite the onion?

Please tell me you’re joking.

I didn’t even read it- because it’s the onion.

If not, do you realize that the onion is a parody organization? If you googled for something, and had to use an onion article to back up your point, you’re losing the debate. It also most likely means there isn’t any legitimate (aka not opinion) articles that back up your assertion.

So, in the past month or so, I’ve literally seen Russia today (RT), the onion & the daily stormer quoted as “proof”. I’m kinda scared to see what else will be used- maybe Reddit or 4chan?

I miss the days of the four big broadcasting companies, and news that everyone trusted. Now, we’ve got opinion masquerading as truth, parody being accepted as truth, and outright lies being accepted as “alternative facts”. It’s amazing how easily some folks can be manipulated.

Crazy- don’t sweat it. Chit happens. If you can find a legitimate news source that proves that Warren used her ancestry to gain an advantage, please share with the rest of us. Just because I haven’t seen it (and again, I read stuff from all over the place), doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

 

[iuwclurker]

Thanks for that. It shows that she personally changed her race identification from Caucasian to Native American. It also shows that she probably didn't use it to her advantage for her career. But I don't understand why she'd identify as NA with so little NA blood. I understand why Cherokees would find that offensive because I find it offensive as a minority also. There's more to being a minority or a race than having a distant relative that is one. I've been a fan of Warren but this is disappointing.

Yes I will still vote for her over Trump if it comes down to that.

Hitler was part Jewish, part African, so it can go both ways. Which do you prefer?

If you grew up hearing that your grandmother or whoever was Native American would you feel wrong embracing that? Do you need DNA tests to prove stories your parents told you about your ancestors?

Suddenly, when it's convenient, The Republican Hypocrite Machine believes and requires science. Trump is a walking, talking load of the biggest pile of bullshit ever splattered in the history of the universe and the Republicans love to wallow in it, despite their denials.

 

[MrBing]

Hitler was part Jewish, part African, so it can go both ways. Which do you prefer?

If you grew up hearing that your grandmother or whoever was Native American would you feel wrong embracing that? Do you need DNA tests to prove stories your parents told you about your ancestors?

Suddenly, when it's convenient, The Republican Hypocrite Machine believes and requires science. Trump is a walking, talking load of the biggest pile of bullshit ever splattered in the history of the universe and the Republicans love to wallow in it, despite their denials.

I'm only saying that I think it's ridiculous for her to claim to be Native American. I'd say the same if you declared to be African American. Doesn't it seem strange to you to claim to be a NA with such a tiny connection to NA ancestry? I like Warren and I'd vote for Warren in 2020 without hesitation if she wins the nomination. I just don't like her claiming to be a minority race she isn't. You might not have the same negative reaction to that because you're not a minority.

 

[SSB]

If I remember correctly Harvard wanted to appear more diverse. Warren mentioned her family’s belief in a Native American background and Harvard requested she list it. So shame on Harvard for such a weak attempt at diversity and shame on Warren complying with Harvard’s request. But more than anything shame on all the knuckle heads that keep retelling this huge nothing burger.

Thanks for that. It shows that she personally changed her race identification from Caucasian to Native American. It also shows that she probably didn't use it to her advantage for her career. But I don't understand why she'd identify as NA with so little NA blood. I understand why Cherokees would find that offensive because I find it offensive as a minority also. There's more to being a minority or a race than having a distant relative that is one. I've been a fan of Warren but this is disappointing.

Yes I will still vote for her over Trump if it comes down to that.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Did you really just quite the onion?

Please tell me you’re joking.

I didn’t even read it- because it’s the onion.

If not, do you realize that the onion is a parody organization? If you googled for something, and had to use an onion article to back up your point, you’re losing the debate. It also most likely means there isn’t any legitimate (aka not opinion) articles that back up your assertion.

So, in the past month or so, I’ve literally seen Russia today (RT), the onion & the daily stormer quoted as “proof”. I’m kinda scared to see what else will be used- maybe Reddit or 4chan?

I miss the days of the four big broadcasting companies, and news that everyone trusted. Now, we’ve got opinion masquerading as truth, parody being accepted as truth, and outright lies being accepted as “alternative facts”. It’s amazing how easily some folks can be manipulated.

Crazy- don’t sweat it. Chit happens. If you can find a legitimate news source that proves that Warren used her ancestry to gain an advantage, please share with the rest of us. Just because I haven’t seen it (and again, I read stuff from all over the place), doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Open the link wiede. I posted it as a joke and that is obvious if you open the link. (I know the Onion is a parody site. The paragraph were my thoughts and the onion was a joke to add on to my thoughts.)

 

[MrBing]

If I remember correctly Harvard wanted to appear more diverse. Warren mentioned her family’s belief in a Native American background and Harvard requested she list it. So shame on Harvard for such a weak attempt at diversity and shame on Warren complying with Harvard’s request. But more than anything shame on all the knuckle heads that keep retelling this huge nothing burger.

Agree it was weak. It just struck a negative chord for me. I still like Warren. Well as much as I can like a politician I guess.

 

[iuwclurker]

I'm only saying that I think it's ridiculous for her to claim to be Native American. I'd say the same if you declared to be African American. Doesn't it seem strange to you to claim to be a NA with such a tiny connection to NA ancestry? I like Warren and I'd vote for Warren in 2020 without hesitation if she wins the nomination. I just don't like her claiming to be a minority race she isn't. You might not have the same negative reaction to that because you're not a minority.

Warren is history. No one's better at tarnishing women than the Republican Spin Factory. If you vote for Warren in 2020, the POTUS will be Republican. Bank that one. Aloha will be telling us how Warren would get a dishonorable discharge for her offenses.

 

[iu_a_att]

Agree it was weak. It just struck a negative chord for me. I still like Warren. Well as much as I can like a politician I guess.

It is a fact that Warren's action struck a negative chord with many, like yourself, who are otherwise sympathetic to Warren. It strikes me that Warren did not identify as NA to gain some undeserved advantage but, rather, as a way that she thought was resonate with her personal history. But her personal identification, as much as it was a part of her family lore, was superficial and disrespectful. It seems to me entirely analogous to the way so many non-native people claim the right to name their sports teams the Redskins, Indians, Seminoles, Illini etc. Universally the non-natives who celebrate those team names and mascots claim they do so intending no disrespect; they claim the right to use those names as part of their own tradition or heritage. Those claims fall flat with native groups for the same reasons.

 

[iu_a_att]

Warren is history. No one's better at tarnishing women than the Republican Spin Factory. If you vote for Warren in 2020, the POTUS will be Republican. Bank that one. Aloha will be telling us how Warren would get a dishonorable discharge for her offenses.

If the choice is between Warren and Trump no doubt the GOP will play the race and gender cards. Nobody ever thought an African American could be elected President...and yet it happened.

 

[MrBing]

Warren is history. No one's better at tarnishing women than the Republican Spin Factory. If you vote for Warren in 2020, the POTUS will be Republican. Bank that one. Aloha will be telling us how Warren would get a dishonorable discharge for her offenses.

Can't be sure she's history. The Pubs might beat her with this if she's the nominee but it's not even close to being significant like Hillary's server problem so they can't do a lot with it.

Aloha can say what he thinks.

 

[wiede]

Open the link wiede. I posted it as a joke and that is obvious if you open the link. (I know the Onion is a parody site. The paragraph were my thoughts and the onion was a joke to add on to my thoughts.)

My bad brother. I usually open up everything, br didn’t have time to do it on your post.

 

[IUCrazy2]

My bad brother. I usually open up everything, br didn’t have time to do it on your post.

No problem, I know how that goes. No harm, no foul.

 

[toastedbread]

It is a fact that Warren's action struck a negative chord with many, like yourself, who are otherwise sympathetic to Warren. It strikes me that Warren did not identify as NA to gain some undeserved advantage but, rather, as a way that she thought was resonate with her personal history. But her personal identification, as much as it was a part of her family lore, was superficial and disrespectful. It seems to me entirely analogous to the way so many non-native people claim the right to name their sports teams the Redskins, Indians, Seminoles, Illini etc. Universally the non-natives who celebrate those team names and mascots claim they do so intending no disrespect; they claim the right to use those names as part of their own tradition or heritage. Those claims fall flat with native groups for the same reasons.

I agree with all of that. However, my big sticking point is that she pulls this crap prior to November 7th. It's a needless negative distraction from an election we must win. It was completely self-centered and not Presidential. I question her entire value system. I feel like there are a group of politicians on the democratic side who are all about me, me, me and their ambitions, don't give a crap about the people. Maybe they have the right policies, but their politic ambition comes first. I don't feel this way about Sanders or Biden, especially Sanders. Though, I feel that both are being a bit selfish in attempting to run at 75+.

I prefer someone a tad more humble who doesn't care about the publicity. (Perhaps that Bullock guy in Montana, though I don't really know much about him. Or Hickenlooper in Colorado) Granted, I realize that to be successful in politics you have to be a bit of a scoundrel.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Lieberman? You're misty for St. Joe Lieberman? That guy was a dick with ears.

Lieberman is the centristy centrist icon. If what you want is a politician who will -- because it perversely casts him as an independent thinker -- always baselessly select whatever position that precisely bisects the difference between One Side and The Other Side, then St. Joe Lieberman is your man. He will piously intone whatever platitude he decides the median pundit wants to hear. And because this is what DC conventional wisdom always thinks, his policies favor wars abroad and scolds at home. He's a sanctimonious prick, and good riddance.

This thread fascinates me. Members of the party that gave us Donald Trump are beyond upset that a New England democrat had the nerve to believe her family stories and claimed, 25-30 years ago, that she had Native American blood. Oh, the horror.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Did you really just quite the onion?

Please tell me you’re joking.

I didn’t even read it- because it’s the onion.

If not, do you realize that the onion is a parody organization? If you googled for something, and had to use an onion article to back up your point, you’re losing the debate. It also most likely means there isn’t any legitimate (aka not opinion) articles that back up your assertion.

So, in the past month or so, I’ve literally seen Russia today (RT), the onion & the daily stormer quoted as “proof”. I’m kinda scared to see what else will be used- maybe Reddit or 4chan?

I miss the days of the four big broadcasting companies, and news that everyone trusted. Now, we’ve got opinion masquerading as truth, parody being accepted as truth, and outright lies being accepted as “alternative facts”. It’s amazing how easily some folks can be manipulated.

Crazy- don’t sweat it. Chit happens. If you can find a legitimate news source that proves that Warren used her ancestry to gain an advantage, please share with the rest of us. Just because I haven’t seen it (and again, I read stuff from all over the place), doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Someone actually linked the Daily Stormer again?

 

[UncleMark]

Someone actually linked the Daily Stormer again?

Gotta balance out all the stuff from The Atlantic.

 

[iuwclurker]

If the choice is between Warren and Trump no doubt the GOP will play the race and gender cards. Nobody ever thought an African American could be elected President...and yet it happened.

Fool me once...mjvcaj voted for Obama, now he "votes his wallet" because he has "no better choice." Furthermore, Warren is no Obama. Nowhere close. Not within light years.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Members of a party whose chosen leader claimed he was Swedish and whose ancestors changed their name to hide their real heritage. Yes, and that same president is currently talking **** to a porn star he paid 130,000 to, about her horseface and she's calling out his oddly shaped small member.

Yes, that's our presidency in a nutshell... welcome to Idiocracy. fwiw - I hate reality TV.

I wonder if some of this ridiculous faux outrage over Warren offending Native Americans is coming from the same ones who told people they were overreacting to the whole Redskins thing.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Warren is history. No one's better at tarnishing women than the Republican Spin Factory. If you vote for Warren in 2020, the POTUS will be Republican. Bank that one. Aloha will be telling us how Warren would get a dishonorable discharge for her offenses.

Dishonorable discharge from what?

 

[twenty02]

The Elizabeth Warren Fiasco
The possible Democratic front-runner plays Trump’s game — and loses.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/opinion/elizabeth-warren-dna-trump-native-american.html

 

[stollcpa]

Do we know what special minority benefits are available to possible 1/1024th South American Indian Heritage? There’s gotta be some subsidies and tax credits for hiring. NY governer will need to add a box to check for the designation. Somewhere around the no gender box.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

The Elizabeth Warren Fiasco
The possible Democratic front-runner plays Trump’s game — and loses.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/opinion/elizabeth-warren-dna-trump-native-american.html

This thread continues to fascinate me.

 

[Thyrsis]

This thread continues to fascinate me.

How so?

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

How so?

The obsession over something so meaningless.

 

[Thyrsis]

The Elizabeth Warren Fiasco
The possible Democratic front-runner plays Trump’s game — and loses.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/opinion/elizabeth-warren-dna-trump-native-american.html

Douthat largely disagrees with most of what the NewGOPers here have been saying. He's critical of Warren so maybe that's all they'll pick up on, but he's not agreeing with most of the Warren takedowns here. Instead, his view of all things Warren is far more sober.

I have no idea who the Democrats will pick as their candidate in 2020. That's a long time away and a lot will happen between now and then. I don't really even know HOW they should pick their nominee. Sure, the primaries determine that outcome, but not without some nudging and influence along the way. I just hope that clear-minded individuals with power to influence don't screw it up. E.g., I hope they don't hamstring themselves with a pointlessly flawed candidate. I've seen that movie before.

I say that I care about that outcome not necessarily because I have hard and determined thoughts on what I think the Democratic Party should stand for, but because I think it's imperative that America reject the stain on our republic and that we seek out normative behaviors that value the institutions of our Constitutional governance.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

The Elizabeth Warren Fiasco
The possible Democratic front-runner plays Trump’s game — and loses.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/opinion/elizabeth-warren-dna-trump-native-american.html

 

[Thyrsis]

The obsession over something so meaningless.

Sure, but I'd say that Douthat's column fairly discussed the politics of that, a good portion of which is in Warren's hands.

 

[Rockfish1]

Douthat largely disagrees with most of what the NewGOPers here have been saying. He's critical of Warren so maybe that's all they'll pick up on, but he's not agreeing with most of the Warren takedowns here. Instead, his view of all things Warren is far more sober.

I have no idea who the Democrats will pick as their candidate in 2020. That's a long time away and a lot will happen between now and then. I don't really even know HOW they should pick their nominee. Sure, the primaries determine that outcome, but not without some nudging and influence along the way. I just hope that clear-minded individuals with power to influence don't screw it up. E.g., I hope they don't hamstring themselves with a pointlessly flawed candidate. I've seen that movie before.

I say that I care about that outcome not necessarily because I have hard and determined thoughts on what I think the Democratic Party should stand for, but because I think it's imperative that America reject the stain on our republic and that we seek out normative behaviors that value the institutions of our Constitutional governance.

I seldom agree with Douthat, but I think he's got this right. I'm a big fan of Elizabeth Warren's policies, but she's mostly proving that she's not suited for the big political stage. Better that we find out now.

 

[hoot1]

Trump's Pocohantas put down isn't as racist as it is another indication of how he demeans the presidency and adds to the depth of negativity which has permeated our political dialogue.

 

[Bruce1]

Which is an inaccurate myth continually propagated by Trump, and his parrots that repeat everything he says. The organizations that could’ve used the info to help her have gone out of their way to say that the possible Native American ancestry played zero role in her being awarded her role.

It’s as if Trump has learned that if you repeat something enough, even if it’s blatantly untrue, you can make some people believe that it’s the truth.

The sad part is that Warren has a pretty amazing story. And all some folks can think about her is the nickname “pocohantas”. It’s pretty damn sickening.

BTW, this type of behavior/usage of press is what dictators do in third world countries. They basically create their own reality. Trump did it for years by leaking nasty stuff about others to the press. And also by leaking favorable info to him. Sometimes even in disguise. John Miller used to call people, and “John Miller” was clearly Trump. He got away with it for so long he can’t operate any other way at this point.

Thank god we have a free press to call him out on this type of thing. I just wish folks would start seeking the truth, instead of automatically parroting whatever right wing media/Trump (largely one and the same now) tell them is reality.

Seeking out the truth is something that is universally needed. I agree with your comment totally. That is also why most Americans were and still are disgusted at the way Judge Kavanaugh was treated.

Free Press - Yes Fair and Objective Press - Hell yes.

 

[iu_a_att]

I seldom agree with Douthat, but I think he's got this right. I'm a big fan of Elizabeth Warren's policies, but she's mostly proving that she's not suited for the big political stage. Better that we find out now.

The only people ready for our current big political stage are cartoon characters.

 

[iuwclurker]

The only people ready for our current big political stage are cartoon characters.

or pragmatic, something antithetical to liberal orthodoxy.

 

[iu_a_att]

or pragmatic, something antithetical to liberal orthodoxy.

Pragmatists have been losing Presidential elections since at least 1980...vision and narrative have been winning.

 

[All4You]

The obsession over something so meaningless.

I don't think there was an obsession by the right over her heritage, or lack thereof, before the big reveal...the butt of right wing pundit jokes for sure, but that was the extent of it. Of course now I agree there is somewhat of an obsession after the big reveal, but I have to believe it's more about the lengths she went to not only to verify her ancestry, but to have an "Al Capone's Vault" reveal in the press about it. She Geraldo Rivera'd herself and that comes with deserved scrutiny and criticism.