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Poll: is Trump’s usage of the term “pocohantas” racist?

Is Trump’s use of the word “pocohantas” racist?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Maybe (explain later in the thread, please)


Results are only viewable after voting.
The manner in which he uses it, yes, imho. Trump doesnt really care about race per se in my opinion, he only cares about money and power. He only took the racebaiting ways of the GOP and brought out into the open the true base of the GOP. He made it "ok" to be openly racist and be a republican, They are who they have always been, they just dont try to hide it anymore ... their "Christian base" are who they have always been.... If racism works to keep power...the orange idiot is all in.
I agree with everything you say except for calling Trump an idiot.
 
Aaaaand...now Lyin' Donald Trump is saying he never pledged $1 million.


At a July rally in Montana. “I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian.”



Compulsive liar.
 
I like her politics and I'd vote for her if someone younger and better doesn't win the primary but that article told me something I didn't know about her and it's a negative for me. And the Pubs are going to use against her too. The article says "During her academic career as a law professor, she had her ethnicity changed from white to Native American at the University of Pennsylvania Law School, where she taught from 1987 to 1995, and at Harvard University Law School, where she was a tenured faculty member starting in 1995." I thought she said before that claiming she was a Native American was a university decision she didn't know about and didn't request. This says SHE changed her ethnicity and according to the test she's only 1/32nd to 1/1,024 Native American. I call bullsh!t on that being enough to claim to be Native American. And why would she do it if she wasn't trying to gain some kind of advantage from it? If any of you white guys claimed to be black with the same amount of African American blood I'd tell you you're full of sh!t and wonder what kind of game you were trying to play. You're white with only that much African American blood and you have no idea what it's really like to be African American so trying to play that would be bullsh!t. That would be all kind of wrong to me as someone that actually a minority. Really I'm 50% but no one would consider me white and I live as a black man. A proud black man. Sorry that part of the article really struck a nerve.

I'd still vote for her but she moved far down the list. Besides she's old and I think we need a younger person to help motivate our younger voters.


She's full of shit.
 
Aaaaand...now Lyin' Donald Trump is saying he never pledged $1 million.


At a July rally in Montana. “I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian.”



Compulsive liar.
I wonder when liberals will start to understand that Trump is trolling them? Trump is playing Calvinball and his supporters know it and LOVE it. If you play the game you lose for sure.
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I would pay top dollar if the crowds at Trump rallies would start chanting "write the check, write the check!"
 
I wonder when liberals will start to understand that Trump is trolling them? Trump is playing Calvinball and his supporters know it and LOVE it. If you play the game you lose for sure.
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Warren arguably doesn't get it...or she wouldn't have made a publicity stunt of releasing a DNA test that shows she could be as little as 0.1% Native American. This will blow up in her face something ridiculous.





BTW....a lot of my family has taken these DNA tests...and they almost always end up with some small % of something incredibly obscure. My very white MIL with a Czech family history/name came back with 1% sub-Saharan African descent!
 
Warren arguably doesn't get it...or she wouldn't have made a publicity stunt of releasing a DNA test that shows she could be as little as 0.1% Native American. This will blow up in her face something ridiculous.





BTW....a lot of my family has taken these DNA tests...and they almost always end up with some small % of something incredibly obscure. My very white MIL with a Czech family history/name came back with 1% sub-Saharan African descent!

She's been trolled to oblivion and still doesn't know it.
 
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And I’m asking as it specifically relates to him calling Elizabeth Warren “pocohantas”.

If you feel like, please elaborate in a response to the thread. Pretty sure you guys already know where I stand ;)

Also, if anyone here has any Native American friends, I’d really be curious to hear their responses to this question. Or, if you happen to be or identify as Native American, please share your thoughts.
No, but EW’s use of it is.
 
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Trump didn't lie at all and this test proved exactly his point that she's not NA. If a DNA test shows that I'm 0.5% hispanic does that mean I'm now allowed to check the box? I guess according to liberals it does.
 
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1% Native American = 100% vindication.

WTF? Vindication? The whole thing has been ridiculous from the start.

Her "Native American" ancestry is nothing more than political expediency to her. She has no more than that of the average American, likely less. This only comes about because she made it an issue by identifying herself as such during her employment @ Penn and Harvard in the 80's and 90's, and has since used this identification to ingratiate herself with certain groups during her political career. Of course her opponents are going to make issue of this. It's wholly asinine to claim some deep ancestral connection to a minority group, as are the lengths that she has gone to maintain this connection, based on a few family stories and what turns out to be a tenuous DNA connection @ best. Other than those who most ardently support her I don't see how this vindicates her, or even helps her, as far as her political aspirations are concerned. I can see how when taken in context of the whole story, and how we end up @ this place, it could actually hurt her further political aspirations.
 
BTW....a lot of my family has taken these DNA tests...and they almost always end up with some small % of something incredibly obscure. My very white MIL with a Czech family history/name came back with 1% sub-Saharan African descent!

Does that mean if she were elected to congress she could join the congressional black caucus? /snicker
 
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She's been trolled to oblivion and
WTF? Vindication? The whole thing has been ridiculous from the start.

Her "Native American" ancestry is nothing more than political expediency to her. She has no more than that of the average American, likely less. This only comes about because she made it an issue by identifying herself as such during her employment @ Penn and Harvard in the 80's and 90's, and has since used this identification to ingratiate herself with certain groups during her political career. Of course her opponents are going to make issue of this. It's wholly asinine to claim some deep ancestral connection to a minority group, as are the lengths that she has gone to maintain this connection, based on a few family stories and what turns out to be a tenuous DNA connection @ best. Other than those who most ardently support her I don't see how this vindicates her, or even helps her, as far as her political aspirations are concerned. I can see how when taken in context of the whole story, and how we end up @ this place, it could actually hurt her further political aspirations.
Yes. 100% vindication.

I'm not aware of her ever declaring any "deep ancestral connection" to a minority group. She exploited a loophole by (rightfully) claiming to have some Native American heritage. The DNA test proves the legitimacy of her claim. It doesn't have anything to do with her political aspirations, other than to prove her to be honest.

What endlessly amuses me about this how no Trumpezoid would EVER think twice about exploiting ANY kind of loophole (particularly taxes) for personal gain. Like Obama's birth certificate, you've tried to make this a scandal with Warren because there's nothing legitimately scandalous about her.
 
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And I’m asking as it specifically relates to him calling Elizabeth Warren “pocohantas”.

If you feel like, please elaborate in a response to the thread. Pretty sure you guys already know where I stand ;)

Also, if anyone here has any Native American friends, I’d really be curious to hear their responses to this question. Or, if you happen to be or identify as Native American, please share your thoughts.
Which definition of "racist" are you using? I've seen several definitions, but it's either racist, racially insensitive or ethnicist. Can't be any doubt. I just don't know if, under today's thinking, an inappropriate reference to Native Americans is considered to be "racist" instead of one of the other categories.

Whatever it is, it would be the same inappropriate thing if Trump had called her Sacagawea, Maconnaquah, Chief Wahoo, or Chief Iliniwek too. Trump abused an Native American name to be derogatory.
 
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Yes. 100% vindication.

I'm not aware of her ever declaring any "deep ancestral connection" to a minority group. She exploited a loophole by (rightfully) claiming to have some Native American heritage. The DNA test proves the legitimacy of her claim. It doesn't have anything to do with her political aspirations, other than to prove her to be honest.

What endlessly amuses me about this how no Trumpezoid would EVER think twice about exploiting ANY kind of loophole (particularly taxes) for personal gain. Like Obama's birth certificate, you've tried to make this a scandal with Warren because there's nothing legitimately scandalous about her.

You keep telling yourself that, you may actually end up convincing yourself...but take a break from trying to convince me...I know political opportunism and expediency when I see it. Now let's get on to what amuses you.

I am not a Trump fan, nor a fan of the modern iteration of either the Republican or Democratic parties. I vote candidates, period, based on how they align with my core values regardless of their party affiliation or chances to win an election...and Trump wasn't one of them (nor was HRC for that matter). People from both sides who think like you think are how we end up with a POTUS like Trump and alternatives like HRC, who in spite of all the advantages in the world still managed to lose to an amoral SOB like him. And as for Obama, I voted for him in 08 (you're welcome) and his birth certificate didn't concern me.

Next time you want to make a point, try harder and do the work. Falling back on ad hom attacks and moral equivocation because I don't agree with your opinion nor you mine seems a bit lazy.
 
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I like her politics and I'd vote for her if someone younger and better doesn't win the primary but that article told me something I didn't know about her and it's a negative for me. And the Pubs are going to use against her too. The article says "During her academic career as a law professor, she had her ethnicity changed from white to Native American at the University of Pennsylvania Law School, where she taught from 1987 to 1995, and at Harvard University Law School, where she was a tenured faculty member starting in 1995." I thought she said before that claiming she was a Native American was a university decision she didn't know about and didn't request. This says SHE changed her ethnicity and according to the test she's only 1/32nd to 1/1,024 Native American. I call bullsh!t on that being enough to claim to be Native American. And why would she do it if she wasn't trying to gain some kind of advantage from it? If any of you white guys claimed to be black with the same amount of African American blood I'd tell you you're full of sh!t and wonder what kind of game you were trying to play. You're white with only that much African American blood and you have no idea what it's really like to be African American so trying to play that would be bullsh!t. That would be all kind of wrong to me as someone that actually a minority. Really I'm 50% but no one would consider me white and I live as a black man. A proud black man. Sorry that part of the article really struck a nerve.

I'd still vote for her but she moved far down the list. Besides she's old and I think we need a younger person to help motivate our younger voters.
I’m 1/8th Cherokee and I’d never claim to be Native American. Doing more than acknowledging it, without experiencing it, would be exploitative. Incidentally, the writer of the article got the math wrong on both ends - 6 generations back, assuming that ancestor was 100 percent, would put Warren at 1/64th Cherokee, not 1/32nd. Either way, if Warren classified herself as Native American as the article suggests, Warren was being ridiculous.
 
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I’m 1/8th Cherokee and I’d never claim to be Native American. Doing more than acknowledging it, without experiencing it, would be exploitative. Incidentally, the writer of the article got the math wrong on both ends - 6 generations back, assuming that ancestor was 100 percent, would put Warren at 1/64th Cherokee, not 1/32nd. Either way, if Warren classified herself as Native American as the article suggests, Warren was being ridiculous.
I agree but I'd still vote for her over Trump in 2020 if they're the candidates. What about you?
 
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Elizabeth would have been a lot better off if she would have kept those results private. I know we had rumors in my family that we had Native American ancestry and both 23 and Me and Ancestry.com proved otherwise. So, I get how she might have thought she had some of that heritage but to have boosted about it as she did was simply Trump like as his family claimed they were Swedish and they are about as Swedish as Elizabeth was Native American.
 
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I agree but I'd still vote for her over Trump in 2020 if they're the candidates. What about you?

If given the choice between the two, and given that it's too early yet for 3rd party declarations, I would write somebody in or leave it blank.
 
Elizabeth would have been a lot better off if she would have kept those results private. I know we had rumors in my family that we had Native American ancestry and both 23 and Me and Ancestry.com proved otherwise. So, I get how she might have thought she had some of that heritage but to have boosted about it as she did was simply Trump like as his family claimed they were Swedish and they are about as Swedish as Elizabeth was Native American.
I have yet to see where she "boosted" [boasted?] about it. The Boston Globe article reported that she changed it after she was already tenured and was at a time in her life when she trying to acknowledge her roots, in homage to her dying relatives. I doubt at the time she thought she'd be a national political figure. Regardless, she's realized no gain or special consideration, and hasn't tried to "pass" or do anything Dolezal.
 
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The question is why you - or anyone - would GAFF?

They say that it didn't have any impact. And even if it did....so what, exactly? Such a dumb topic and so purely Trumpian.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/na...complicated/wUZZcrKKEOUv5Spnb7IO0K/story.html
Great article, very glad I read it. I was particularly interested to read that the central question they had about Warren at Harvard was about the extent to which she used empirical methods and data to understand the real impact of law.
There was less consensus over her brand of scholarship, in which she had pioneered a way of using surveys and actual bankruptcy records to determine how laws affected real people. Warren’s approach was a little too practical, and not intellectual enough, for some.

“The views had a lot to do with the methodology she was using,” recalled David Wilkins, a Harvard Law professor who voted to offer Warren a job. “Was it the right methodology?”​
 
What did Obama and the Democrats do for Black America, Trump created jobs, lowest black unemployment ever fewer blacks on welfare.
The unemployment rate was improving before Trump was President. It just continued the same path. What did Trump do for black Americans?.
 
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Which definition of "racist" are you using? I've seen several definitions, but it's either racist, racially insensitive or ethnicist. Can't be any doubt. I just don't know if, under today's thinking, an inappropriate reference to Native Americans is considered to be "racist" instead of one of the other categories.

Whatever it is, it would be the same inappropriate thing if Trump had called her Sacagawea, Maconnaquah, Chief Wahoo, or Chief Iliniwek too. Trump abused an Native American name to be derogatory.

Exactly. It’s very offensive to native Americans- no matter what the original tribe. You’re invoking perhaps the most well known Native American historical figure (that’s debatable, but you get the idea), and using it to essentially say that all native Americans are “pocohantas’s”. Which isn’t remotely true- the native Americans in this country come from very diverse backgrounds, depending on where their original tribe was based.

So, in putting it into terms of how it’s racist, let’s just say that it’s very offensive. I’d still say racist, because you’re using stereotypes of one Native American historical figure to refer to ALL native Americans. It’s not as if Trump did his homework, and knew that Pocohantas could possibly be from the same original tribe as native Americans in Warren’s family lineage.

This isn’t a slam- but I don’t think that some on this board can see it- because there is no real corollary with white people. Because white people are the dominant race/culture in America- at least for a little while longer.

In other words, there’s a lack of being able to see things from someone else’s position. The assumption is that the world is the same for everyone in this country, and that’s not close to being true. I wish it were true, but it’s not. There’s no “playing the victim” to acknowledge that truth. Rather, acknowledging that truth always leads to greater empathy, and understanding. Both of which are key foundations of respect and equality.
 
Warren arguably doesn't get it...or she wouldn't have made a publicity stunt of releasing a DNA test that shows she could be as little as 0.1% Native American. This will blow up in her face something ridiculous.





BTW....a lot of my family has taken these DNA tests...and they almost always end up with some small % of something incredibly obscure. My very white MIL with a Czech family history/name came back with 1% sub-Saharan African descent!
There's something sorely lacking in these stories, and I don't know how it's presented in the research done for Warren, but it's important to know: these fractions being bandied about are complete bullshit. You do get exactly 50% of your genes* from each parent, but beyond that, randomness obscures things. You don't know for sure if you have exactly 25% from each grandparent. In fact, it's very unlikely that you do.

In short, while you will account for 50% of your kid's genes, which 50% of your genes goes to each kid is chosen at random, and it's very unlikely that it's a 50/50 blend of each of your own parents. Go back even a couple of generations, and this randomness makes trying to assign a percentage pretty much a fool's errand.

If the research done for Warren was done how I assume it was (and how implied by the original reports), what really happened was this: someone tested thousands of single-nucleotide polymorphism locations in her genome, found a certain number that were consistent with Native American ancestry, and taking into account that number, their locations, and their overlap with other ancestries Warren was found to also share also known to experience these same polymorphisms, did a bunch of complicated math, and came to the conclusion that this number of matching polymorphisms was consistent with a single ancestor within a certain range of generations in the past. The idea that it means she is "1/32 to 1/1024" Native America is science fiction.

* Even then, not exactly, if you account for the difference in size of the Y and X chromosomes, as well as the inheritance of all mitochondrial DNA from the mother, but close enough.
 
Cherokee Nation: Warren's use of DNA test 'inappropriate,' 'wrong'

"Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong," said Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. "It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven."
 
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