Player Development

[MikeHoncho69]

It's no secret that Archie Miller failed miserably as it relates to player development. As others have been discussing on another thread, Justin Smith is a prime example of that, as Eric Musselman has tapped into Smith's potential and helped him achieve it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed Mike Woodson's player development experience in the NBA will translate to the college level.

I've never coached basketball nor do I know anyone who has coached at any level. I'm wondering if someone on this board could provide insight into what exactly a good coach does with players in practices and behind the scenes that develops them from game to game and season to season. Is it more basic skill building with dribbling/shooting/passing drills? Or is it more about film study? I'm just curious if anyone would be able to shed some light on that process.

 

[DallasHoosier]

I'm equally clueless, but from listening to people that seem like they know what they're talking about, I got the feeling the Archie wasn't much of a delegator in terms of development. Coach Woodson seems like much more of a collaborator and with his years of experience, hopefully he knows just the right people to bring in and develop certain skills (i.e. hitting a jump shot).

 

[Jfats]

People tend to focus only on Ppg averages as the metric for the value of a player. Justin Smith was a top player at IU last season though people denied it. His shot was below average, but his skills around the basket - both offensively and defensively were way above average. Him on the floor with Brunk and/or TJD was clearly flawed offensively, and right or wrong, he seemed miserable. Had he stayed at IU, I sincerely believe he’d have had fewer minutes - him transferring was a good call.

 

[Beorik]

I can’t speak to the ncaa rules but in high school head coaches are very restricted on how much time and when they can be involved with the team and players. There is a lot of work in the weeks leading up to the season that focuses on game/player development but once the season starts it’s really all about the team game and preparation for your upcoming opponents. I suspect ncaa is equally restricted.

What many high school coaches do is develop a plan for a kid each year. It was typically what I would do in the last few weeks of every season. Sit down with the kid and talk about where he is at currently and where he wants to be. Based off that conversation and the previous year’s performance a development plan would be put in place for his off season work. This would include weight training, target weight, drills to improve certain skills, and then the basics that every player was expected to do (shooting and fundamental drills which all players need). I would also outline what an ideal player needs as far as time commitment to basketball to include “pick up games” and “open gyms” which of course were on the players. To help with this, since I could not have any contact for a large part of the year, I typically had 5-10 trusted individuals who knew all the drills I liked and what I wanted the players to focus on who were not at all connected to the program. They made themselves available to the players all year to help them do their work and stay on track.

Unfortunately for a coach there is very little you can do if a player isn’t following the plan. Every single coach I have ever known does something like this so that’s why I say it is typically the player fault if they are not developing their skills.

If the player is putting in the time and work which for my program was typically 20ish hours per week during the off season, they will develop. But it has to be good work. You can’t just go throw a ball at a hoop for 2-4 hours a day and expect to be a better player the next year.

 

[Chris A.]

Musselman maximized Smith's strengths and minimized his weaknesses. Archie had him playing the 3 and taking 3's.

 

[IU_Hickory]

It appeared Archie lost the team and they weren't enjoying playing for him based on body language.

Ability to develop players is impossible if the team isn't listening anymore. Who knows why.

 

[victorbear]

Sure looked like to me that Phinisee intentionally missed those free throws at the end of the Rutgers game knowing a new coach might come.........................

 

[MikeHoncho69]

I can’t speak to the ncaa rules but in high school head coaches are very restricted on how much time and when they can be involved with the team and players. There is a lot of work in the weeks leading up to the season that focuses on game/player development but once the season starts it’s really all about the team game and preparation for your upcoming opponents. I suspect ncaa is equally restricted.

What many high school coaches do is develop a plan for a kid each year. It was typically what I would do in the last few weeks of every season. Sit down with the kid and talk about where he is at currently and where he wants to be. Based off that conversation and the previous year’s performance a development plan would be put in place for his off season work. This would include weight training, target weight, drills to improve certain skills, and then the basics that every player was expected to do (shooting and fundamental drills which all players need). I would also outline what an ideal player needs as far as time commitment to basketball to include “pick up games” and “open gyms” which of course were on the players. To help with this, since I could not have any contact for a large part of the year, I typically had 5-10 trusted individuals who knew all the drills I liked and what I wanted the players to focus on who were not at all connected to the program. They made themselves available to the players all year to help them do their work and stay on track.

Unfortunately for a coach there is very little you can do if a player isn’t following the plan. Every single coach I have ever known does something like this so that’s why I say it is typically the player fault if they are not developing their skills.

If the player is putting in the time and work which for my program was typically 20ish hours per week during the off season, they will develop. But it has to be good work. You can’t just go throw a ball at a hoop for 2-4 hours a day and expect to be a better player the next year.

This is great. Say, for example, a kid agreed his three-point jump shot needed to be improved. I could imagine individual drills where he shoots from various spots along the three-point line in different situations -- curling around screens, off the dribble, receiving a pass with feet already set, etc. If the player is committed to doing that over the off-season when no one -- including the coach -- is looking, that would serve as the work needed to show up the next season as an improved three-point shooter.

 

[MikeHoncho69]

Sure looked like to me that Phinisee intentionally missed those free throws at the end of the Rutgers game knowing a new coach might come.........................

This is a two-fold situation in my estimation. First, I would not be surprised if Archie and his staff spent minimal time on basic fundamentals, particularly shooting. Secondly, I don't believe there was a program culture of hard work and putting in the time when no one is looking. The best example of a kid putting in the work on his own was Victor Oladipo getting up shots in Cook Hall late on a Thursday night when he could have been out partying or goofing off. I believe Mike Woodson will create a culture of hard work.

 

[MikeHoncho69]

It appeared Archie lost the team and they weren't enjoying playing for him based on body language.

Ability to develop players is impossible if the team isn't listening anymore. Who knows why.

Agreed. Based on what NBA players past and present have said about Mike Woodson, it seems he has the type of personality that makes kids want to work hard for him and not disappoint him.

 

[Beorik]

This is great. Say, for example, a kid agreed his three-point jump shot needed to be improved. I could imagine individual drills where he shoots from various spots along the three-point line in different situations -- curling around screens, off the dribble, receiving a pass with feet already set, etc. If the player is committed to doing that over the off-season when no one -- including the coach -- is looking, that would serve as the work needed to show up the next season as an improved three-point shooter.

Correct. There are lots of drills for improving shooting but the most important thing is to simulate live action as much as possible. Thats why having someone there to simulate closing out helps. And then of course you have to keep those mechanics in the pick up games as well.

 

[MikeHoncho69]

Correct. There are lots of drills for improving shooting but the most important thing is to simulate live action as much as possible. Thats why having someone there to simulate closing out helps. And then of course you have to keep those mechanics in the pick up games as well.

Right. I would imagine the IU student managers and the strength & conditioning coaches would be willing to get in the gym over the spring/summer/fall to help the players work on their craft and get better. I don't believe that type of culture existed under Archie, so I'm hoping Woodson can turn that around.

 

[hickorytree1]

Sure looked like to me that Phinisee intentionally missed those free throws at the end of the Rutgers game knowing a new coach might come.........................

You're on to something, must be a conspiracy

 

[Beorik]

Right. I would imagine the IU student managers and the strength & conditioning coaches would be willing to get in the gym over the spring/summer/fall to help the players work on their craft and get better. I don't believe that type of culture existed under Archie, so I'm hoping Woodson can turn that around.

Yes. I have no college experience but that would be my guess as well.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

team free throw shooting was flatlined at 65-66% for four years......that is a microcosm of overall player development under Miller. Unacceptable, period.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

This is great. Say, for example, a kid agreed his three-point jump shot needed to be improved. I could imagine individual drills where he shoots from various spots along the three-point line in different situations -- curling around screens, off the dribble, receiving a pass with feet already set, etc. If the player is committed to doing that over the off-season when no one -- including the coach -- is looking, that would serve as the work needed to show up the next season as an improved three-point shooter.

That is exactly what Kirk Haston did. Knight told him he needed a 3-point shot, Haston spent all summer working on it. Knight was fired, but Haston came back a good outside shot. Long ago I mentioned that here, his cousin emailed me (I had an email in my signature) and said he was the guy who spent all summer rebounding for Haston.

The coach must tell them what they need to improve and give them ideas on how to improve it. Then the kid must want to follow the coach's plan.

 

[Brewskie]

Agreed. Based on what NBA players past and present have said about Mike Woodson, it seems he has the type of personality that makes kids want to work hard for him and not disappoint him.

Agreed as well. Look at our football team. They've completely bought in to Coach Allen and would run through a brick wall for him. That showed on the field. We get our basketball team to do that and we'll see drastic improvement.

 

[victorbear]

You're on to something, must be a conspiracy

Well I could have just said the kid sucked at shooting

 

[victorbear]

Agreed as well. Look at our football team. They've completely bought in to Coach Allen and would run through a brick wall for him. That showed on the field. We get our basketball team to do that and we'll see drastic improvement.

We were 10th this year and have not made the tourney since 2016 improvement won't be hard.

 

[Birnk403]

We were 10th this year and have not made the tourney since 2016 improvement won't be hard.

New coaching staff, uncertain roster, limited inbound recruiting help, perimeter woes, uneven defensive performance, highly competitive conference . . . Improvement in the near term will be very difficult.

 

[MikeHoncho69]

Agreed as well. Look at our football team. They've completely bought in to Coach Allen and would run through a brick wall for him. That showed on the field. We get our basketball team to do that and we'll see drastic improvement.

Exactly. I'd love to see TJD, Lander, Franklin and Thompson all return and buy in to the culture and vision for the program he and Scott Dolson discussed yesterday. However, it's also a two-way street. Woodson may decide there are guys on the current roster who won't be a fit for the culture he wants to build.

 

[Ladoga]

It's no secret that Archie Miller failed miserably as it relates to player development. As others have been discussing on another thread, Justin Smith is a prime example of that, as Eric Musselman has tapped into Smith's potential and helped him achieve it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed Mike Woodson's player development experience in the NBA will translate to the college level.

I've never coached basketball nor do I know anyone who has coached at any level. I'm wondering if someone on this board could provide insight into what exactly a good coach does with players in practices and behind the scenes that develops them from game to game and season to season. Is it more basic skill building with dribbling/shooting/passing drills? Or is it more about film study? I'm just curious if anyone would be able to shed some light on that process.

The best coach there ever was taught better than the rest and lived by the notion that mental is to physical as 4 is to 1. He taught his team to think better than the opponents.

BTW,, that slogan is plastered all over the facility and the minds of the players at
Texas Tech. No accident there. That is too brief an explanation, but is the core of programs were the total of the program is greater than the sum of its parts..

 

[Harpo Marxist]

Woodson is old school in terms of his value system. I don't anticipate coddling or coaxing. He will treat those in the portal fairly, but from a position of strength. That is my impression...and one of the benefits of an old school IU guy.

 

[MikeHoncho69]

Woodson is old school in terms of his value system. I don't anticipate coddling or coaxing. He will treat those in the portal fairly, but from a position of strength. That is my impression...and one of the benefits of an old school IU guy.

Agreed. Woodson discussed the IU players in the portal on the Dakich show yesterday. Dakich asked about those players returning being a "two-way street," insinuating that Woodson may not want certain guys back. Woodson absolutely agreed. To me, that shows Woodson will stick to his guns and won't tolerate players who don't want to buy in or work hard.

Even Jarrad Odle tweeted yesterday about how he believes there are a few guys on the current roster who are not "buy in" guys.

 

[BAMAFORIU]

We all agree Archie had no ability to develop players and he had little ability to hire or develop a staff to offset his weaknesses. Tom Ostrom is a good example. When was his influence ever felt. He came from Dayton and was Archie's ego prop but was never seen developing anyone or talking to anyone. If Archie had surrounded himself with guys who would speak up or who had other ideas, things may have worked out differently. Unfortunately, AM and his chief assistant TO were clones of each other. That is why I like Woodson and Dolson reaching out to a Thad Matta and others for input and then let Woodson develop the family.

 

[bawlmer]

Musselman maximized Smith's strengths and minimized his weaknesses. Archie had him playing the 3 and taking 3's.

Agree with this. I don't really see much different about Justin's game. He still can't shoot. He dunks and shoots that jump hook near the basket that he developed last year.

But he's in a more free-flowing offense, which is better-suited for his strengths. I enjoyed watching him play well in the tournament. He seemed more energized, but playing deep into the NCAAs probably has something to do with that, too.

 

[MikeHoncho69]

Agree with this. I don't really see much different about Justin's game. He still can't shoot. He dunks and shoots that jump hook near the basket that he developed last year.

But he's in a more free-flowing offense, which is better-suited for his strengths. I enjoyed watching him play well in the tournament. He seemed more energized, but playing deep into the NCAAs probably has something to do with that, too.

It's just incredibly disappointing that Archie was either unable or unwilling to put players like Justin Smith in positions to win. He did not adjust his system or style of play to accentuate the strengths of his players.

 

[T.M.P.]

Eric Musselman has tapped into Smith's potential and helped him achieve it.

lol ...............