Per Ramsey as current #1 & Penix now up to #2

[IndyIUFan66]

Still think Ramsey has experience/smarts and talent to likely be starter next fall.

Penix is probably real deal to be doing as well as he is, and could see him making a push (a la Alabama kid last year in similar situation?)

Tronti - still think he can be fine and in world of football, very easily one injury away from being immediate back up, and another from starting. Hope he keeps chin up and keeps working.

AZ transfer - mixed in some ways, but if he's #1 or #2 worthy, bring him in for 1 year and let Penix/Tronti get a little more seasoning.

Hope we start hearing how O-Line is developing as to me that is key to any of the QBs having some time to throw, RB's lanes to run, which in turn will make any QB look better.

 

[crossfire74]

Still think Ramsey has experience/smarts and talent to likely be starter next fall.

Penix is probably real deal to be doing as well as he is, and could see him making a push (a la Alabama kid last year in similar situation?)

Tronti - still think he can be fine and in world of football, very easily one injury away from being immediate back up, and another from starting. Hope he keeps chin up and keeps working.

AZ transfer - mixed in some ways, but if he's #1 or #2 worthy, bring him in for 1 year and let Penix/Tronti get a little more seasoning.

Hope we start hearing how O-Line is developing as to me that is key to any of the QBs having some time to throw, RB's lanes to run, which in turn will make any QB look better.

If you take a grad transfer, you don't sit them on the bench unless they are hurt. If Dawkins comes, he will be our #1 guy for this coming season and as you stated, his presence would allow for needed development time for Penix and Tronti.

As for the OL I think they are looking better and I've heard the same. Crider moving to Guard has helped stabilize that right side more. Knight being a senior helps to. Still hoping Linder recovers and can start at center by fall, but for now Littlejohn has shown better results than last year at least. Left side is steady as always. The key to the OL development, at least in my opinion is finding a really good 2nd unit that can step in and be ready to go and not loose much so we can give guys on the first unit breathers. That's still a work in progress.

 

[Marthamon]

If you take a grad transfer, you don't sit them on the bench unless they are hurt. If Dawkins comes, he will be our #1 guy for this coming season and as you stated, his presence would allow for needed development time for Penix and Tronti.

As for the OL I think they are looking better and I've heard the same. Crider moving to Guard has helped stabilize that right side more. Knight being a senior helps to. Still hoping Linder recovers and can start at center by fall, but for now Littlejohn has shown better results than last year at least. Left side is steady as always. The key to the OL development, at least in my opinion is finding a really good 2nd unit that can step in and be ready to go and not loose much so we can give guys on the first unit breathers. That's still a work in progress.

Doesn’t the fact that they’re recruiting this kid tell you of their discomfort regarding the quarterback position?

 

[crossfire74]

Doesn’t the fact that they’re recruiting this kid tell you of their discomfort regarding the quarterback position?

yes it does.

 

[YOTHN]

Doesn’t the fact that they’re recruiting this kid tell you of their discomfort regarding the quarterback position?

Well it's not like we don't know what we get with Ramsey. Penix is a true frosh and if he plays its simply because of his athletic ability at the position. So nothing he is doing right now will show much of anything. I think with our QB situation, it would never hurt to bring in someone who has shown the ability to play at a high level. Its only a one year offer so its a scholly that opens right back up next year.

 

[Bowlmania]

Doesn’t the fact that they’re recruiting this kid tell you of their discomfort regarding the quarterback position?

Discomfort? Probably. But it's not an indictment of any of our guys. It's a recognition that there's not a whole lot of college experience at the position. And another injury to Ramsey could be enormously problematic. I'd be happy to see a veteran guy on the squad as Ramsey, Penix and Tronti continue to develop.

 

[IndyIUFan66]

If you take a grad transfer, you don't sit them on the bench unless they are hurt. If Dawkins comes, he will be our #1 guy for this coming season and as you stated, his presence would allow for needed development time for Penix and Tronti.

As for the OL I think they are looking better and I've heard the same. Crider moving to Guard has helped stabilize that right side more. Knight being a senior helps to. Still hoping Linder recovers and can start at center by fall, but for now Littlejohn has shown better results than last year at least. Left side is steady as always. The key to the OL development, at least in my opinion is finding a really good 2nd unit that can step in and be ready to go and not loose much so we can give guys on the first unit breathers. That's still a work in progress.

Certainly think correct expectation would be he’d would be challenging to start, but I don’t think starting job is handed to anyone, and that Ramsey, who does have some game experience, would be given fair chance to win the position & start.

 

[RBB89]

So you all realize that poster is ordfan 22.0, right?

 

[Marthamon]

Discomfort? Probably. But it's not an indictment of any of our guys. It's a recognition that there's not a whole lot of college experience at the position. And another injury to Ramsey could be enormously problematic. I'd be happy to see a veteran guy on the squad as Ramsey, Penix and Tronti continue to develop.

Indictment? No. But it's very likely an acknowledgement that the combination of youth, inexperience and modest physical talent (Penix is likely talented but somewhat immature physically) puts IU in a very precarious spot at a position that must be better for them to go bowling. And that's if no one gets hurt.

 

[iueyedoc99]

Doesn’t the fact that they’re recruiting this kid tell you of their discomfort regarding the quarterback position?

Considering it’s PR and three frosh in the QB room, of course their not comfortable. Is this a surprise to anyone? It’s going to be tough sledding trying to compete in the B1G East with frosh behind center and anyone who thinks PR will take every snap this fall wasn’t watching very closely last year. No knock on the QBs cause we’ve got some good players, but I credit CTA for being realistic about the position he’s in and doing something about it, even if a few toes get stepped on. It gives me some hope for the future that he is not just accepting the status quo. Special teams was bad so he has brought in top flight SCHOLARSHIP ST guys. Now, not in two or three years. The OL sucked so he brought in Linder. The QBs are young so he’s going hard for a Sr. This is a good sign folks.

 

[RBB89]

Considering it’s PR and three frosh in the QB room, of course their not comfortable. Is this a surprise to anyone? It’s going to be tough sledding trying to compete in the B1G East with frosh behind center and anyone who thinks PR will take every snap this fall wasn’t watching very closely last year. No knock on the QBs cause we’ve got some good players, but I credit CTA for being realistic about the position he’s in and doing something about it, even if a few toes get stepped on. It gives me some hope for the future that he is not just accepting the status quo. Special teams was bad so he has brought in top flight SCHOLARSHIP ST guys. Now, not in two or three years. The OL sucked so he brought in Linder. The QBs are young so he’s going hard for a Sr. This is a good sign folks.

Yeah, I mean I really like Ramsey, and think he can be a really good QB, but you should always be looking for ways to improve your team.

 

[Marthamon]

Considering it’s PR and three frosh in the QB room, of course their not comfortable. Is this a surprise to anyone? It’s going to be tough sledding trying to compete in the B1G East with frosh behind center and anyone who thinks PR will take every snap this fall wasn’t watching very closely last year. No knock on the QBs cause we’ve got some good players, but I credit CTA for being realistic about the position he’s in and doing something about it, even if a few toes get stepped on. It gives me some hope for the future that he is not just accepting the status quo. Special teams was bad so he has brought in top flight SCHOLARSHIP ST guys. Now, not in two or three years. The OL sucked so he brought in Linder. The QBs are young so he’s going hard for a Sr. This is a good sign folks.

Makes it all the more surprising that they didn't pursue a juco to provide them more immediate help. Would've been beneficial to get a kid into school in time to go through spring practice and shore up the position. Maybe they went after some guys and just couldn't get any traction.

 

[IndyIUFan66]

So you all realize that poster is ordfan 22.0, right?

Who? Didn’t really see the ordfan pessimism.

 

[82hoosier]

Doesn’t the fact that they’re recruiting this kid tell you of their discomfort regarding the quarterback position?

On the brightside at least they are not recruiting a kid with no offers and who was not even the starting qb on his high school team.

 

[crossfire74]

Certainly think correct expectation would be he’d would be challenging to start, but I don’t think starting job is handed to anyone, and that Ramsey, who does have some game experience, would be given fair chance to win the position & start.

I think it's pretty telling that Penix is pretty close to overtaking Ramsey right now. If Dawkins comes I believe he will be competing with Penix, not Ramsey for the starting job. That's what I think may surprise some folks.

 

[RBB89]

Who? Didn’t really see the ordfan pessimism.

Marthamon. He’s been doing it more on the hoops board.

 

[Marthamon]

I think it's pretty telling that Penix is pretty close to overtaking Ramsey right now. If Dawkins comes I believe he will be competing with Penix, not Ramsey for the starting job. That's what I think may surprise some folks.

Agreed. Everything I’ve heard is that he’s far more talented than anyone else at the position and that he need to grow both physically and maturity wise asap. IU is really thin there.

 

[Fro]

We only have 1 QB who's played major minutes, so getting an experienced player to help out makes sense. Our other guys are a R/S freshman & true freshman and it's likely in our system we'll have 2 guys out hurt at the same time.

Makes it all the more surprising that they didn't pursue a juco to provide them more immediate help. Would've been beneficial to get a kid into school in time to go through spring practice and shore up the position. Maybe they went after some guys and just couldn't get any traction.

A grad transfer is going to be better than a JUCO since they have experience playing high-level football. Plus they're only around for a year so nobody's going to feel blocked and transfer out.

 

[Bowlmania]

So you all realize that poster is ordfan 22.0, right?

Thanks for the heads up. I don't spend much time on the hoops board but I still should have picked up on it - - with close to a hundred posts in just a week being the major clue.

 

[RBB89]

Thanks for the heads up. I don't spend much time on the hoops board but I still should have picked up on it - - with close to a hundred posts in just a week being the major clue.

Yeah, didn’t mean to hijack the thread, but frankly I think a person with 500 different usernames deserves to be called out.

 

[Marthamon]

We only have 1 QB who's played major minutes, so getting an experienced player to help out makes sense. Our other guys are a R/S freshman & true freshman and it's likely in our system we'll have 2 guys out hurt at the same time.



A grad transfer is going to be better than a JUCO since they have experience playing high-level football. Plus they're only around for a year so nobody's going to feel blocked and transfer out.

You make good points but now IU doesn’t have the juco option and they’re competing with several others for the AZ kid. They could easily end up with no one, which would be problematic.

 

[iueyedoc99]

We only have 1 QB who's played major minutes, so getting an experienced player to help out makes sense. Our other guys are a R/S freshman & true freshman and it's likely in our system we'll have 2 guys out hurt at the same time.



A grad transfer is going to be better than a JUCO since they have experience playing high-level football. Plus they're only around for a year so nobody's going to feel blocked and transfer out.

To quote CKW “We are learning that JUCOs are JUCOs for a reason”.

 

[Marthamon]

To quote CKW “We are learning that JUCOs are JUCOs for a reason”.

As are graduate transfers.

 

[Bowlmania]

As are graduate transfers.

Two of the top eight QBs selected in last year's NFL draft (Nathan Peterman and Davis Webb) were grad transfers.

New name, same BS.

 

[Marthamon]

Two of the top eight QBs selected in last year's NFL draft (Nathan Peterman and Davis Webb) were grad transfers.

New name, same BS.

Good point, though that’s hardly the norm.

 

[Crimson Crush]

Indictment? No. But it's very likely an acknowledgement that the combination of youth, inexperience and modest physical talent (Penix is likely talented but somewhat immature physically) puts IU in a very precarious spot at a position that must be better for them to go bowling. And that's if no one gets hurt.

Are you acknowledging that CTA actually made a good decision here to pursue the kid or is this somehow a negative?

 

[Marthamon]

Are you acknowledging that CTA actually made a good decision here to pursue the kid or is this somehow a negative?

Upgrading (or at least trying to upgrade) what is considered to be to the most important position on the team while also having one of the lowest rated quarterback groups in the conference seems like a no-brainer. I’d be really concerned if he didn’t pursue other options, and wonder if they did try the juco route and couldn’t find anyone to their liking.

 

[Superstar84b]

Upgrading (or at least trying to upgrade) what is considered to be to the most important position on the team while also having one of the lowest rated quarterback groups in the conference seems like a no-brainer. I’d be really concerned if he didn’t pursue other options, and wonder if they did try the juco route and couldn’t find anyone to their liking.

That’s where a disagree. I don’t think it’s the most important position. I think the team could easily go into the season with Ramsey as the starter and be fine. Really, the offensive line is going to make or break Ramsey. If he gets happy feet, we know that he will not make it the whole year. But if he has time, he has the experience and football IQ to be a good distributer and take care of the ball. If he can just take care of the ball, distribute the ball at the intermediate level, and run occasionally (but not scrambling every play because that’s how you get hurt) the team should be fine as long as there’s a run game. The receivers appear to be talented enough to compensate for some deficiencies that Ramsey may have (deep ball accuracy). All reports say that the offensive line is improved and formadible.

If the O-line is improved, the team will be fine with Ramsey. Dawkins would be a slightly better option if he can learn this specific offense fast. On tape, Dawkins is just a faster Ramsey, and a little bit more accurate. As others have noted, the main concern is if anyone gets hurt too. So I think that even if Dawkins didn’t start, if he can somewhat adequately learn the offense, he’d still be worth a scholly in order to have an insurance policy if Ramsey gets hurt. Ideally if Penix needs to mature, you’d like to play him at reciever/running back/wildcat (kind of like Penn State used Stevens) in order to get him experience and then expand his role. Or maybe you even redshirt Penix so that he can focus purely on putting on weight/power. Again, Tommy Stevens is a good example. Went from 190 pounds to 235 pounds in a short period of time. If Penix ever gets in the 220-225 range, injuries will be less of a concern down the line.

 

[vesuvius13]

With the improvement and raves Penix is getting; I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up starting. He has already gone up to 205 and with the system we have now in S&C I wouldn't be surprised to see him at 215-220 come Fall. Whichever way it works out IU will be fine if the OL has improved the way it is reported to have. We have very good RBs, talented WRs and TEs so if our OL [the issue now seems to be the 2nd OL] is better the offense will be fine. Most coaches [I agree too as coach] say what superstar84b stated - the OL is the most important part of the team. It will be important for the offense to be much better to give the defense time to adapt and become a solid defense [unless they shock us this year right off the bat]. The Spring Game will be a good time to find out what how the players are developing.

 

[Marthamon]

That’s where a disagree. I don’t think it’s the most important position. I think the team could easily go into the season with Ramsey as the starter and be fine. Really, the offensive line is going to make or break Ramsey. If he gets happy feet, we know that he will not make it the whole year. But if he has time, he has the experience and football IQ to be a good distributer and take care of the ball. If he can just take care of the ball, distribute the ball at the intermediate level, and run occasionally (but not scrambling every play because that’s how you get hurt) the team should be fine as long as there’s a run game. The receivers appear to be talented enough to compensate for some deficiencies that Ramsey may have (deep ball accuracy). All reports say that the offensive line is improved and formadible.

If the O-line is improved, the team will be fine with Ramsey. Dawkins would be a slightly better option if he can learn this specific offense fast. On tape, Dawkins is just a faster Ramsey, and a little bit more accurate. As others have noted, the main concern is if anyone gets hurt too. So I think that even if Dawkins didn’t start, if he can somewhat adequately learn the offense, he’d still be worth a scholly in order to have an insurance policy if Ramsey gets hurt. Ideally if Penix needs to mature, you’d like to play him at reciever/running back/wildcat (kind of like Penn State used Stevens) in order to get him experience and then expand his role. Or maybe you even redshirt Penix so that he can focus purely on putting on weight/power. Again, Tommy Stevens is a good example. Went from 190 pounds to 235 pounds in a short period of time. If Penix ever gets in the 220-225 range, injuries will be less of a concern down the line.

No problem agreeing to disagree about the qb spot, but I also think talk of a formidable or even improved offensive line is very premature. Spring has barely sprung and there's been very little live scrimmaging, and it's a unit that was one of the poorest in the BiG last year. I agree they're a big key, but I think it's unrealistic to expect huge leaps from that group.

As for the skill groups on offense, I think the receivers are decent and there is some potential on the backfield, but it's not a big play or explosive group. Having a playmaking quarterback would really be a catalyst for what is there.

 

[Superstar84b]

No problem agreeing to disagree about the qb spot, but I also think talk of a formidable or even improved offensive line is very premature. Spring has barely sprung and there's been very little live scrimmaging, and it's a unit that was one of the poorest in the BiG last year. I agree they're a big key, but I think it's unrealistic to expect huge leaps from that group.

As for the skill groups on offense, I think the receivers are decent and there is some potential on the backfield, but it's not a big play or explosive group. Having a playmaking quarterback would really be a catalyst for what is there.

I agree here in terms of it being premature. I’ve stated before that it is very difficult to guage where an offensive line is this early. The reports say they are improved, so I’m basing all of this on the hope that they are improved. But in the spring game, because it is such a controlled scrimmage, it is hard to guage how good they are. When the QB can’t be sacked and is typically allowed to run around and play two hand touch, that varies greatly from playing Ohio State where they are trying to take the QB’s head off.

I’m hopeful of the O-line for 3 reasons.
1. The stregnth and conditioning improvements seem to be in full effect. I trust those guys in the weight room, and what the program is trying to accomplish. Agility is the key for a lineman, and this staff seems to be improving that.

2. Allen seems positive but also effective. What I mean by that is he doesn’t give up on kids, but at the same time is demanding and will fight for their improvement. Wilson kind of had the attitude that you either had the natural ability or you didn’t. Allen seems to be willing to improve kids. That approach is critical for the O-line, because physically they could all improve.

3. The structure of the offense actually benefits the O-Line because it relies on quick passes, play actions, and there’s a QB running threat. When the defensive ends have to play the read option, that slows them down on play action. Deboard offensive structure is why Dobbs didn’t get sacked a ton at Tennessee. So if the offensive line is at least somewhat improved, the scheme will help them perform.

 

[Marthamon]

I agree here in terms of it being premature. I’ve stated before that it is very difficult to guage where an offensive line is this early. The reports say they are improved, so I’m basing all of this on the hope that they are improved. But in the spring game, because it is such a controlled scrimmage, it is hard to guage how good they are. When the QB can’t be sacked and is typically allowed to run around and play two hand touch, that varies greatly from playing Ohio State where they are trying to take the QB’s head off.

I’m hopeful of the O-line for 3 reasons.
1. The stregnth and conditioning improvements seem to be in full effect. I trust those guys in the weight room, and what the program is trying to accomplish. Agility is the key for a lineman, and this staff seems to be improving that.

2. Allen seems positive but also effective. What I mean by that is he doesn’t give up on kids, but at the same time is demanding and will fight for their improvement. Wilson kind of had the attitude that you either had the natural ability or you didn’t. Allen seems to be willing to improve kids. That approach is critical for the O-line, because physically they could all improve.

3. The structure of the offense actually benefits the O-Line because it relies on quick passes, play actions, and there’s a QB running threat. When the defensive ends have to play the read option, that slows them down on play action. Deboard offensive structure is why Dobbs didn’t get sacked a ton at Tennessee. So if the offensive line is at least somewhat improved, the scheme will help them perform.

Appreciate your thoughts. At the end of the day, a lot of this still depends on talent and depth and, despite some progress, IU is toward the bottom of,the BiG in those two areas. Scheme is great and shouldn't be underrated, but talent still counts for a lot.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I agree here in terms of it being premature. I’ve stated before that it is very difficult to guage where an offensive line is this early. The reports say they are improved, so I’m basing all of this on the hope that they are improved. But in the spring game, because it is such a controlled scrimmage, it is hard to guage how good they are. When the QB can’t be sacked and is typically allowed to run around and play two hand touch, that varies greatly from playing Ohio State where they are trying to take the QB’s head off.

I’m hopeful of the O-line for 3 reasons.
1. The stregnth and conditioning improvements seem to be in full effect. I trust those guys in the weight room, and what the program is trying to accomplish. Agility is the key for a lineman, and this staff seems to be improving that.

2. Allen seems positive but also effective. What I mean by that is he doesn’t give up on kids, but at the same time is demanding and will fight for their improvement. Wilson kind of had the attitude that you either had the natural ability or you didn’t. Allen seems to be willing to improve kids. That approach is critical for the O-line, because physically they could all improve.

3. The structure of the offense actually benefits the O-Line because it relies on quick passes, play actions, and there’s a QB running threat. When the defensive ends have to play the read option, that slows them down on play action. Deboard offensive structure is why Dobbs didn’t get sacked a ton at Tennessee. So if the offensive line is at least somewhat improved, the scheme will help them perform.

Encouraged by your points on the Oline as this is an area I remain concerned about. The line has been awful for two full seasons which has been the limiting factor for an already limited QB corps. Iu is not getting top talent so If TA is energized by developing talent...sounds good. Appreciate the insight, it is rare here.

 

[IUCol]

So you all realize that poster is ordfan 22.0, right?

Dude...who frigging cares? Oh that's right...only you. Your are obsessed child. Get over it. As far as I can tell, your the most disruptive voice around here. Give it a rest. You aint who you think you are....geeeesh.

Wise man say, when you argue with a fool, the listener cant tell which is which. Think about it.

 

[RBB89]

Dude...who frigging cares? Oh that's right...only you. Your are obsessed child. Get over it. As far as I can tell, your the most disruptive voice around here. Give it a rest. You aint who you think you are....geeeesh.

Wise man say, when you argue with a fool, the listener cant tell which is which. Think about it.

He has 50 alter egos and destroys all discussion. I’m going to point it out.

 

[Marthamon]

He has 50 alter egos and destroys all discussion. I’m going to point it out.

He was merely pointing out that the only person destroying discussions here is you. Perhaps if you worried more about yourself and less about everyone else, you’d see a positive difference.

 

[IND22]

He was merely pointing out that the only person destroying discussions here is you. Perhaps if you worried more about yourself and less about everyone else, you’d see a positive difference.

Yes. Stick to the thread.

 

[Crimson Crush]

OL and DL are always what makes or breaks a team. Every school in FBS has serviceable skill guys. The hogs up front make those skill guys’ job easier. The only skill guys that can withstand bad front lines are freak athletes who can make plays out of nothing. That’s rare. You put OSU skill guys behind an OL from IU or Rutgers and you would see a vastly different result from their production at OSU.

 

[Marthamon]

OL and DL are always what makes or breaks a team. Every school in FBS has serviceable skill guys. The hogs up front make those skill guys’ job easier. The only skill guys that can withstand bad front lines are freak athletes who can make plays out of nothing. That’s rare. You put OSU skill guys behind an OL from IU or Rutgers and you would see a vastly different result from their production at OSU.

I don’t disagree, but there’s always been a distinction between the most important position (quarterback) and the most important position groups (O and D lines).

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Dude...who frigging cares? Oh that's right...only you. Your are obsessed child. Get over it. As far as I can tell, your the most disruptive voice around here. Give it a rest. You aint who you think you are....geeeesh.

Wise man say, when you argue with a fool, the listener cant tell which is which. Think about it.

This isn't true or fair.

RBB has been here a long time under a single name, contributes greatly through his insight and access to operational aspects particularly around facilities development. He and I disagree on a number of things, but he is a valuable contributor. RBB isn't the problem here.