People are actually burning Nike shoes and apparel...

[futueteipsum]

You should read the links when provided, but only an idiot doesn’t know the proper protocol for the national anthem. Are you an idiot or just pretending to be an idiot? futueteipsum

Googled it.

The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—
(1)when the flag is displayed—
(A)
individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B)
members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C)
all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2)
when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.
​

I assert that's the biggest crock of shit in the history of eternity. That is, it violates my First Amendment right of free expression. I'm not your slave nor your robot. But if you choose to be a slave or a robot to a stupid law written no doubt by some uppity Old.White.Males, so be it. That law is a million times more offensive than kneeling for the Anthem.

But that doesn't make you an idiot, Aloha.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Googled it.

The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—
(1)when the flag is displayed—
(A)
individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B)
members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C)
all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2)
when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.
​

I assert that's the biggest crock of shit in the history of eternity. That is, it violates my First Amendment right of free expression. I'm not your slave nor your robot. But if you choose to be a slave or a robot to a stupid law written no doubt by some uppity Old.White.Males, so be it. That law is a million times more offensive than kneeling for the Anthem.

But that doesn't make you an idiot, Aloha.

LOL! It’s not a crime not to comply with the protocol. If you wish to demonstrate disrespect to the flag, the anthem, the country and the tradition, go for it. I’d expect that from you.

 

[futueteipsum]

LOL! It’s not a crime not to comply with the protocol. If you wish to demonstrate disrespect to the flag, the anthem, the country and the tradition, go for it. I’d expect that from you.

I don't know if it's a law or what, but it's listed as a US COde in that COrnell University Law School link.

But you see, ALoha, you've still got it wrong here. Nuance matters. Kaep didn't disrespect the Flag or the Anthem. At most, he disrespected the protocol. Like it or not, there's a difference. He kneeled before the Flag and the Anthem and that, historically, actually shows more respect than standing. You really need to step out of your box and look at this objectively.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I don't know if it's a law or what, but it's listed as a US COde in that COrnell University Law School link.

But you see, ALoha, you've still got it wrong here. Nuance matters. Kaep didn't disrespect the Flag or the Anthem. At most, he disrespected the protocol. Like it or not, there's a difference. He kneeled before the Flag and the Anthem and that, historically, actually shows more respect than standing. You really need to step out of your box and look at this objectively.

You realize that you are the only proponent of this kooky theory, right?

 

[zeke4ahs]

The NIKE commercial will be shown during tomorrow’s NFL game. Just saw it online and it’s very well done, but I’m sure it will bring more controversy because of Kaep.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Do I need to plead with you not to be braindead? Kneeling is a time-honored form of respect, get it? Kneeling before _________ (fill in the noun) is showing respect to (noun). What's new is calling kneeling disrespectful. Never before in history has kneeling been disrespectful. Get it?

So, because kneeling is generally considered respectful, kneeling during the anthem must also be respectful? THATS your argument?

Good grief.

Regardless, you’re completely disregarding what Kap himself has said, regarding his reasons for doing so.

Basically, he won’t show respect to the flag of a country which mistreats minority’s. And the way he chose to do that was by......kneeling. So, Kap himself disagrees with you here.

Interesting that he has no problem accepting millions from Nike, a company that has sweat shops all over the world producing their merchandise though. Imagine that.

 

[futueteipsum]

So, because kneeling is generally considered respectful, kneeling during the anthem must also be respectful? THATS your argument?

Good grief.

Regardless, you’re completely disregarding what Kap himself has said, regarding his reasons for doing so.

Basically, he won’t show respect to the flag of a country which mistreats minority’s. And the way he chose to do that was by......kneeling. So, Kap himself disagrees with you here.

Interesting that he has no problem accepting millions from Nike, a company that has sweat shops all over the world producing their merchandise though. Imagine that.

Not standing to show respect for is not disrespecting the Flag.

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."
​

He didn't disrespect the Flag (like flip it the bird or whatever). He silently kneeled, which is a perfectly respectful act, to draw attention to his concerns. Think in terms of plus, zero and minus. You want plus and you're saying not plus is minus. No. Not plus is either zero or minus. Furthermore, less plus is still plus. Two and one are both positive numbers. Kaep didn't actually choose zero because kneeling silently is more respectful than doing nothing, like staying in the locker room or simply ignoring the anthem, which many fans and employees in the stadium do. Kaep chose a plus that is less plus than you want and you (or others) are pissed.

YOu guys just can't accept the fact that kneeling during the Anthem can be a form of respect.

​

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Not standing to show respect for is not disrespecting the Flag.

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."
​

He didn't disrespect the Flag (like flip it the bird or whatever). He silently kneeled, which is a perfectly respectful act, to draw attention to his concerns. Think in terms of plus, zero and minus. You want plus and you're saying not plus is minus. No. Not plus is either zero or minus. Furthermore, less plus is still plus. Two and one are both positive numbers. Kaep didn't actually choose zero because kneeling silently is more respectful than doing nothing, like staying in the locker room or simply ignoring the anthem, which many fans and employees in the stadium do. Kaep chose a plus that is less plus than you want and you (or others) are pissed.

YOu guys just can't accept the fact that kneeling during the Anthem can be a form of respect.

​

The only thing I can’t accept is your convoluted, nonsensical logic.

Kap kneels during the anthem, a time when everyone else has traditionally stood.

Kap says he won’t show pride in a flag that, in his opinion, oppresses millions of its own citizens.

Futueteipsum-“He’s actually respecting the flag!!!!”

Seriously, are you trolling?

 

[IUINSB]

Googled it.

The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—
(1)when the flag is displayed—
(A)
individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B)
members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C)
all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2)
when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.
​

I assert that's the biggest crock of shit in the history of eternity. That is, it violates my First Amendment right of free expression. I'm not your slave nor your robot. But if you choose to be a slave or a robot to a stupid law written no doubt by some uppity Old.White.Males, so be it. That law is a million times more offensive than kneeling for the Anthem.

But that doesn't make you an idiot, Aloha.

Four "should" and one "may" and zero "must", just how are your rights being violated?

 

[cosmickid]

https://thelutchmanwire.com/2018/09...pernick-a-message-on-sacrifice-its-priceless/

“How about other warriors? Warriors who will not be on magazine covers, who will not get lucrative contracts and millions of followers from their actions and who have truly sacrificed everything,” Kyle asked. “They did it because they believed in something. Take it from me, when I say they sacrificed everything, they also sacrificed the lives of their loved ones who will never be the same. THAT is sacrificing everything for something they believe in.”

So soldiers who died prior to 1931 (when the SSB became the "National Anthem") didn't sacrifice or believe in anything? We aren't talking about people protesting the Flag/NA before some official military function. It's before a SPORTING EVENT. They are NOT breaking a law of the land. It's a tradition, started by owners of sports franchises to enrich their own coffers, playing on patriotism...

"Other baseball parks began to play the song on holidays and special occasions, and Red Sox owner Harry Frazee made it a regular part of Boston home games. The Star-Spangled Banner officially became the U.S. national anthem in 1931, and by the end of World War II, NFL Commissioner Elmer Layden ordered that it be played at every football game. The tradition quickly spread to other sports, aided by the introduction of large sound systems and post-war patriotism.

The anthem’s adoption also gave way to a new American pastime, almost as beloved as sports itself: complaining about people’s behavior during the national anthem. By 1954, Baltimore Orioles general manager Arthur Ehlers was already bemoaning fans he thought disrespected the anthem by talking and laughing during the song. Ehlers briefly stopped playing the anthem altogether, before relenting to pressure and reinstating it a month later."

https://www.history.com/news/why-the-star-spangled-banner-is-played-at-sporting-events

 

[SSB]

In your attempt to be funny, you have offended my late grandfather that sported those from his 70s into his 90s[/QUOTE

Has the pic been removed? Anyway I’m picturing a pair of New Balance GrandDads.

 

[SSB]

This is so silly.

Nevermind the fact that by most accounts, people are burning and destroying their own clothing they've already paid for, people are STILL missing the point of Colin Kaepernick's protest. No one is disrespecting our veterans by kneeling during the National Anthem.

If people not standing at attention is the paramount of respect for veterans, then people who are offended by anyone not doing that should probably roam the corridors of any college or pro sports games to wrangle up all the people buying beers, going to the bathroom, buying merchandise or doing that last shot before heading into the game.

What's ironic is that had no one really made a fuss about it, Kaepernick would have faded out of the news cycle and into relative obscurity long ago. He'd be the answer to a trivia question at best. I can't believe this is the hill conservatives decided to die on.

And for the record, my buying habits won't be changing. I'm not buying anything to feign any type of perceived solidarity with Nike, nor am I going out of my way NOT to buy anything with the swoosh on it. If Nike running shorts are cheaper than Brooks' or Under Armour's the day I walk into the store, then that's what I'll buy.

I’ve got some used Nike gear I’d be willing to sell, if someone wants to burn it. Let me know. Otherwise it will probably go to Goodwill.

 

[zeke4ahs]

This is so silly.

Nevermind the fact that by most accounts, people are burning and destroying their own clothing they've already paid for, people are STILL missing the point of Colin Kaepernick's protest. No one is disrespecting our veterans by kneeling during the National Anthem.

If people not standing at attention is the paramount of respect for veterans, then people who are offended by anyone not doing that should probably roam the corridors of any college or pro sports games to wrangle up all the people buying beers, going to the bathroom, buying merchandise or doing that last shot before heading into the game.

What's ironic is that had no one really made a fuss about it, Kaepernick would have faded out of the news cycle and into relative obscurity long ago. He'd be the answer to a trivia question at best. I can't believe this is the hill conservatives decided to die on.

And for the record, my buying habits won't be changing. I'm not buying anything to feign any type of perceived solidarity with Nike, nor am I going out of my way NOT to buy anything with the swoosh on it. If Nike running shorts are cheaper than Brooks' or Under Armour's the day I walk into the store, then that's what I'll buy.

I’ve got some used Nike gear I’d be willing to sell, if someone wants to burn it. Let me know. Otherwise it will probably go to Goodwill.

Lol. That will teach them!! Stock up again today. Hate to say it, but my guess is you aren’t their target consumer.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Not sure, but yea it was pics of grandpa shoes.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

So soldiers who died prior to 1931 (when the SSB became the "National Anthem") didn't sacrifice or believe in anything? We aren't talking about people protesting the Flag/NA before some official military function. It's before a SPORTING EVENT. They are NOT breaking a law of the land. It's a tradition, started by owners of sports franchises to enrich their own coffers, playing on patriotism...

"Other baseball parks began to play the song on holidays and special occasions, and Red Sox owner Harry Frazee made it a regular part of Boston home games. The Star-Spangled Banner officially became the U.S. national anthem in 1931, and by the end of World War II, NFL Commissioner Elmer Layden ordered that it be played at every football game. The tradition quickly spread to other sports, aided by the introduction of large sound systems and post-war patriotism.

The anthem’s adoption also gave way to a new American pastime, almost as beloved as sports itself: complaining about people’s behavior during the national anthem. By 1954, Baltimore Orioles general manager Arthur Ehlers was already bemoaning fans he thought disrespected the anthem by talking and laughing during the song. Ehlers briefly stopped playing the anthem altogether, before relenting to pressure and reinstating it a month later."

https://www.history.com/news/why-the-star-spangled-banner-is-played-at-sporting-events

 

[zeke4ahs]

So soldiers who died prior to 1931 (when the SSB became the "National Anthem") didn't sacrifice or believe in anything? We aren't talking about people protesting the Flag/NA before some official military function. It's before a SPORTING EVENT. They are NOT breaking a law of the land. It's a tradition, started by owners of sports franchises to enrich their own coffers, playing on patriotism...

"Other baseball parks began to play the song on holidays and special occasions, and Red Sox owner Harry Frazee made it a regular part of Boston home games. The Star-Spangled Banner officially became the U.S. national anthem in 1931, and by the end of World War II, NFL Commissioner Elmer Layden ordered that it be played at every football game. The tradition quickly spread to other sports, aided by the introduction of large sound systems and post-war patriotism.

The anthem’s adoption also gave way to a new American pastime, almost as beloved as sports itself: complaining about people’s behavior during the national anthem. By 1954, Baltimore Orioles general manager Arthur Ehlers was already bemoaning fans he thought disrespected the anthem by talking and laughing during the song. Ehlers briefly stopped playing the anthem altogether, before relenting to pressure and reinstating it a month later."

https://www.history.com/news/why-the-star-spangled-banner-is-played-at-sporting-events

Big fan of Pat Tillman and read several books about him, a couple from his family. From what I know, I’d bet he’d be supportive of Kaep.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

But I’m not offended by the kneeling. Not at all. They have every right to do so.

What I don’t like is how many say those in the military have no right to be offended. That’s not how it works.

If my father or grandfather gave his life protecting everything that flag represents, your damn right I’d be offended. Especially coming from a spoiled troublemaking punk like Kap.

I don’t care about the kneeling. I just want those who do given some consideration.

This is the problem with group think. If you don’t agree with them you are wrong and your position is not worthy of any considerations... it is possible that both sides are correct. It is true (in my opinion and experience with other vets) that the overwhelming majority of vets believe CK and others have a right to protest the anthem and flag. It is also correct that a large number of those vets also find it in bad taste.

What I find interesting is the argument doesn’t matter to the left that a large portion does find it in bad taste but they just don’t seem to care that they do. It would appear to me that maybe the protest is in bad form because it did not chose the best form of protest to get their point across. The fact people have to twist and contort to explain a protestors position is also an indication that maybe you didn’t choose the right type of protest.

Look up the definition of protest. Does it fit kneeling for the anthem?

Also, here was his original statement on sitting for the anthem, "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

He states that he chooses not to stand to show pride in a flag for a country. So the act of kneeling is to show the opposite of pride. Care to lookup antonyms for Pride? Disdain, dishonor, shame, disgrace, all fit.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

If Kaepernick was at a funeral for a veteran and they played the anthem, would he kneel? Would that be disrespectful? Bad form of protest

 

[zeke4ahs]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...ional-anthem-if-he-were-alive-biographer-says
Related to the Tillman meme, just as I expected. People say not only would he support Kap, he’d be kneeling.

 

[Ladoga]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...ional-anthem-if-he-were-alive-biographer-says
Related to the Tillman meme, just as I expected. People say not only would he support Kap, he’d be kneeling.

Some more of your "people" - sources you never name - supporting a position you don't attribute to them by name? People? You got people for every wacky opinion you state. Not you nor any one of your "people" have ever talked to Pat Tillman on the issue, have you?

 

[UncleMark]

Some more of your "people" - sources you never name - supporting a position you don't attribute to them by name? People? You got people for every wacky opinion you state. Not you nor any one of your "people" have ever talked to Pat Tillman on the issue, have you?

Is clicking a supplied link beyond your capabilities?

"Pat would have found Kaepernick an extremely admirable person for what he believed in,” Jon Krakauer, the author of Tillman’s biography Where Men Win Glory, told The Washington Post. “I have no doubt if he was in the NFL today, he would be the first to kneel. So, there is irony about what is going on.”​

 

[UncleMark]

He's no hero. He got killed by his own people. I like soldiers that don't get killed by their own people.

 

[Fro]

He's no hero. He got killed by his own people. I like soldiers that don't get killed by their own people.

It's noble that he left the NFL to join the army but people shouldn't bring him up as some sort of ultimate retort to Kap considering the USA lied about why he died for propaganda purposes.

Colin Kaepernick may ultimately save more lives and have a greater positive impact in the world.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Is clicking a supplied link beyond your capabilities?

"Pat would have found Kaepernick an extremely admirable person for what he believed in,” Jon Krakauer, the author of Tillman’s biography Where Men Win Glory, told The Washington Post. “I have no doubt if he was in the NFL today, he would be the first to kneel. So, there is irony about what is going on.”​

I generally find it a little creepy and kind of cheap to speculate that a dead person would have supported a particular cause or political position.

 

[UncleMark]

I bet I know who’ll nominate and elect you

At least I'm not Hillary.

 

[Jeb MT Mater]

He states that he chooses not to stand to show pride in a flag for a country. So the act of kneeling is to show the opposite of pride. Care to lookup antonyms for Pride? Disdain, dishonor, shame, disgrace, all fit.

Sure you're right. Wait...isn't the opposite of standing standing upside down?

 

[Jeb MT Mater]

If Kaepernick was at a funeral for a veteran and they played the anthem, would he kneel? Would that be disrespectful? Bad form of protest

If he were at a funeral ceremony, he'd be there because he wanted to be part of the funeral ceremony. Football players don't play football to be part of a ceremony.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Colin Kaepernick may ultimately save more lives and have a greater positive impact in the world.

Good lord

 

[DrHoops]

Where Men Win Glory: The Odyssey of Pat Tillman by Jon Krakauer was an amazing book. Tillman was a fascinating person...and Krakauer is a gifted writer who really told the story well.

It's noble that he left the NFL to join the army but people shouldn't bring him up as some sort of ultimate retort to Kap considering the USA lied about why he died for propaganda purposes.

Colin Kaepernick may ultimately save more lives and have a greater positive impact in the world.

 

[DrHoops]

It couldn't possibly be because he actually believes in the cause...heavens no.

Um no. My thinking on this issue has been unchanged since Kaepernick was a child.

I also believe that Kaepernick and Nike are sticking to the principle of making money. The second rate QB gets paid like a superstar for his position. A position he did not really start to publically push until he was no longer viewed as starter material. Hey, everybody has to make a buck I suppose.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I generally find it a little creepy and kind of cheap to speculate that a dead person would have supported a particular cause or political position.

And yet you liked Jamie's meme share, and seem to be criticizing Mark. Is it perhaps possible that you simply find it creepy and kind of cheap to speculate that a dead person would have supported something you personally just happen to disagree with?

 

[DrHoops]

I don't think they invaded Iwo Jima (thank you, Aloha) for "The Flag". They did it for their country and raised the US flag over the island when they succeeded.

You think the folks who raised the flag on Okinawa would agree with you?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

And yet you liked Jamie's meme share, and seem to be criticizing Mark. Is it perhaps possible that you simply find it creepy and kind of cheap to speculate that a dead person would have supported something you personally just happen to disagree with?

I liked it for something Tillman actually did. You don’t see the difference?

 

[DrHoops]

The Green Beret was former long snapper Nate Boyer and in this video he explains his interactions with Kaep and how he came to understand what the protest was all about.

Many veterans say it is, and many veterans say that’s exactly why they fought, for freedoms. So just like most demographics, they don’t all agree. Kaep spoke with a Green Beret before he started to see what would be most respectful.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Hey people, the famous flag raising was over Iwo Jima, not Okinawa. However, we did raise the US flag over Okinawa as well.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I liked it for something Tillman actually did. You don’t see the difference?

Of course I see the difference. But I don't believe for one second you are naive enough to think that's why the meme was shared - or why it was even created in the first place.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Of course I see the difference. But I don't believe for one second you are naive enough to think that's why the meme was shared - or why it was even created in the first place.

And?

 

[twenty02]

I think everyone sould bookmark this thread....

And then look back on it in about 3-4 years...


And realize how amazingly dumb it will all look....


This is such a dumpster fire.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

And?

I just find it interesting that A speculates about Tillman, and then B responds with speculation about Tillman, and you seem to object to B. If your problem is really speculating about how a dead guy might feel about his name being used to score political points, you should have objected to A. But you didn't.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I think everyone sould bookmark this thread....

And then look back on it in about 3-4 years...


And realize how amazingly dumb it will all look....


This is such a dumpster fire.

There's a thread praising our soon-to-be SCOTUS justice as a "wise Caucasian," and you think this is the thread we'll realize is amazingly dumb?