Our guards are incredibly average

IUNorth

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Its too bad...we have a very good front court with TJD and Race. And it’ll get better when Brunk gets healthy and the more comfortable Hunter gets. Those guys have, and will, put us in a lot of games. Problem will be, too often I fear, that our backcourt guys just aren’t difference makers. They can’t consistently make winning plays/shots.

Which is why I said before our first game that Lander not being ready to contribute and change that dynamic a bit...would be an ominous sign. We have a group of solid support players on the perimeter. And we’ll continue to lose to teams with difference makers out there. Iowa has a stable of them. So does Illinois. OSU has Walker and Washington. Michigan has the transfer PG. Wisconsin has Trice. Rutgers has a couple stud guards.

Without question we’re better than we were a year ago. But we’re not good enough to compete with Top 4-5 teams in our conference. A d that sucks.
 
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I told everyone on here Lander was one of the most overrated 5 stars I've ever seen in person.
Could he become good ..Yes.
But I believe he'll be here as a Jr..
Illinois/ MSU / Iowa..Those three are on another level compared to the rest of the Big Ten.
 
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IUNorth

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I told everyone on here Lander was one of the most overrated 5 stars I've ever seen in person.
Could he become good ..Yes.
But I believe he'll be here as a Jr..
Illinois/ MSU / Iowa..Those three are on another level compared to the rest of the Big Ten.

I know you did. But he was still a highly rated, play making guard. And hes competing with one of the worst backcourts in the Big Ten.

The book on Al, Armaan, and Rob is out. I actually like our freshman a lot. But the fact that none of them have displaced any of our returning guys, at all...isn’t good for our prospects to climb the standings. And that sucks. There are a lot of freshmen contributing heavily all over the country.
 

Coach Geez

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I think you’re really underrating Franklin. Rob and Al are what they are at this point, serviceable, but not one’s to take over a game. But Franklin is big and physical and has been a pleasant surprise. Jump shot needs to improve and sometimes gets caught under the basket, but he’s aggressive and attacks the rim. Also our best defender. Has drawn lottery picks in his last two games and has done a tremendous job. Barnes hit two big shots in OT but was held in check outside thst.
 

IUNorth

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I think you’re really underrating Franklin. Rob and Al are what they are at this point, serviceable, but not one’s to take over a game. But Franklin is big and physical and has been a pleasant surprise. Jump shot needs to improve and sometimes gets caught under the basket, but he’s aggressive and attacks the rim. Also our best defender. Has drawn lottery picks in his last two games and has done a tremendous job. Barnes hit two big shots in OT but was held in check outside thst.

Hes solid. He’s not a guy that’s going to go make plays to win games. And he’s not a guy that will make open shots if someone else makes a play to get him open. At least not consistently.

He drove baseline into 3 defenders late in the game...had Race diving open to the basket...threw it into the defenders hands.

He had a relatively open 15 foot jumper late in the game...he missed it.

He had his hands down on Barnes in over time and allowed him to step into a comfortable 3...which he hit.

He had an opportunity to secure the ball on a rebound in regulation. He got it poked away.

He gave up the winning basket. Tough shot, but he gave it up.

He’ll obviously improve. But he isn’t gonna become AJ Guyton or Yogi all of a sudden.
 
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Coach Geez

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Hes solid. He’s not a guy that’s going to go make plays to win games. And he’s not a guy that will make open shots if someone else makes a play to get him open. At least not consistently.

He drove baseline into 3 defenders late in the game...had Race diving open to the basket...threw it into the defenders hands.

He had a relatively open 15 foot jumper late in the game...he missed it.

He had his hands down on Barnes in over time and allowed him to step into a comfortable 3...which he hit.

He had an opportunity to secure the ball on a rebound in regulation. He got it poked away.

He gave up the winning basket. Tough shot, but he gave it up.

He’ll obviously improve. But he isn’t gonna become AJ Guyton or Yogi all of a sudden.

Right. But he’s also only a sophomore really getting extensive run for the first time in his career. Bet he’s better than average before this year is over.
 
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IUNorth

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Right. But he’s also only a sophomore really getting extensive run for the first time in his career. Bet he’s better than average before this year is over.

Hope so! And I’m glad to have him. I can probably name a dozen or more guards that are better though in the Big10. And even more that I’d trust with the ball or a good look with the game on the line. And he’s our best perimeter option. It’s a problem.
 

jimmygoiu

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Hes solid. He’s not a guy that’s going to go make plays to win games. And he’s not a guy that will make open shots if someone else makes a play to get him open. At least not consistently.

He drove baseline into 3 defenders late in the game...had Race diving open to the basket...threw it into the defenders hands.

He had a relatively open 15 foot jumper late in the game...he missed it.

He had his hands down on Barnes in over time and allowed him to step into a comfortable 3...which he hit.

He had an opportunity to secure the ball on a rebound in regulation. He got it poked away.

He gave up the winning basket. Tough shot, but he gave it up.

He’ll obviously improve. But he isn’t gonna become AJ Guyton or Yogi all of a sudden.
Check out your buddy Guyton's stats against Pepperdine. IU REALLY needed him to produce after Haston got hurt. I pray that Franklin does not produce when needed like your idol Guyton did when absoludtely needed.....
 

IUNorth

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Check out your buddy Guyton's stats against Pepperdine. IU REALLY needed him to produce after Haston got hurt. I pray that Franklin does not produce when needed like your idol Guyton did when absoludtely needed.....

Hes not my idol. Same age as me...makes that tough. Alford, Bailey, Isaiah...maybe.

And I honestly don’t remember that game at all? Other than we sucked and lost. I’ll have to take your word in Guyton in that game I guess. But what I do remember is that he was an All American. And one of IUs all time leading scorers. And he made A LOT of big shots and plays in his 4 years. I’ll be ecstatic if Armaan does any where near what AJ did at IU. That’d probably elevate this team to top 3-4 in the conference...so I’d welcome an AJ like Armaan any time now!
 

mk23

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Hes solid. He’s not a guy that’s going to go make plays to win games. And he’s not a guy that will make open shots if someone else makes a play to get him open. At least not consistently.

He drove baseline into 3 defenders late in the game...had Race diving open to the basket...threw it into the defenders hands.

He had a relatively open 15 foot jumper late in the game...he missed it.

He had his hands down on Barnes in over time and allowed him to step into a comfortable 3...which he hit.

He had an opportunity to secure the ball on a rebound in regulation. He got it poked away.

He gave up the winning basket. Tough shot, but he gave it up.

He’ll obviously improve. But he isn’t gonna become AJ Guyton or Yogi all of a sudden.
100% correct. I love having Indiana kids out there, but he’s got a looonnng way to go in most facets. It still amazes me we can’t have a single dependable outside shooter on back-to-back-to-back times however long it’s been since Yogi graduated.
 

BCCHoosier

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Check out your buddy Guyton's stats against Pepperdine. IU REALLY needed him to produce after Haston got hurt. I pray that Franklin does not produce when needed like your idol Guyton did when absoludtely needed.....
One bad game spoils a stellar career? Seems a bit harsh.
 
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jimmygoiu

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Check out your buddy Guyton's stats against Pepperdine. IU REALLY needed him to produce after Haston got hurt. I pray that Franklin does not produce when needed like your idol Guyton did when absoludtely needed.....
When iU really needed him to step up...check out his stats. I hope that none of our current players QUIT on the team like Guyton did in his last game at iU. When IU needed our all american? to step up. Look it up IUNorth. look it up... 34 minutes played, 0-2 FG, 3-5 FT, 1 rb, 2 asst, 1 st, 2 to, in 34 MINUTES. That is your stud guyton afterHaston was hurt in the first 4 minutes, and IU needed their AA to step up. He quit on us.. No more rewriting of history.....
 
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IUNorth

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When iU really needed him to step up...check out his stats. I hope that none of our current players QUIT on the team like Guyton did in his last game at iU. When IU needed our all american? to step up. Look it up IUNorth. look it up...

I did just look it up. I did. And yes, he was horrible that game. So was Lewis, who was the point guard and at the time all time leading assist man. I’m sure both hate that’s how they went out.

Now you Go ahead and look up his career stats, all the awards he won, and all the games he put his teams on his shoulders and led them to wins.
 
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jimmygoiu

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I did just look it up. I did. And yes, he was horrible that game. So was Lewis, who was the point guard and at the time all time leading assist man. I’m sure both hate that’s how they went out.

Now you Go ahead and look up his career stats, all the awards he won, and all the games he put his teams on his shoulders and led them to wins.
He QUIT on IU that game. Watch it.... He had every reason to take it over. Just did not have it. When did Lewis appear in the discussion..please look at your original post-it was about Guyton and Yogi. If anyone ever overachieved for IU, it was Michael Lewis.
 

Birnk403

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When iU really needed him to step up...check out his stats. I hope that none of our current players QUIT on the team like Guyton did in his last game at iU. When IU needed our all american? to step up. Look it up IUNorth. look it up... 34 minutes played, 0-2 FG, 3-5 FT, 1 rb, 2 asst, 1 st, 2 to, in 34 MINUTES. That is your stud guyton afterHaston was hurt in the first 4 minutes, and IU needed their AA to step up. He quit on us.. No more rewriting of history.....
This is extraordinarily dumb, even for you.
 

82hoosier

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I know you did. But he was still a highly rated, play making guard. And hes competing with one of the worst backcourts in the Big Ten.

The book on Al, Armaan, and Rob is out. I actually like our freshman a lot. But the fact that none of them have displaced any of our returning guys, at all...isn’t good for our prospects to climb the standings. And that sucks. There are a lot of freshmen contributing heavily all over the country.
I can see Lander playing a lot better in the second half of the season. The kid is supposed to be a senior in high school. He should still have another year of driving in for layups against 6 foot 3 inch centers.
 
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Crayfish57

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He QUIT on IU that game. Watch it.... He had every reason to take it over. Just did not have it. When did Lewis appear in the discussion..please look at your original post-it was about Guyton and Yogi. If anyone ever overachieved for IU, it was Michael Lewis.

WTH is your problem man? Guyton steal your girlfriend or something?
 

fkfootball

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Apr 28, 2014
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I can see Lander pbeing a lot better in the second half of the season. The kid is supposed to be a senior in high school. He should still have another year of driving in for layups against 6 foot 3 inch centers.

I watched him play against Floyd Central and he had 7 points. He had trouble against their 6”5 and 6”6 guys. I knew he’d take some time to develop here.
 

kkott

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Its too bad...we have a very good front court with TJD and Race. And it’ll get better when Brunk gets healthy and the more comfortable Hunter gets. Those guys have, and will, put us in a lot of games. Problem will be, too often I fear, that our backcourt guys just aren’t difference makers. They can’t consistently make winning plays/shots.

Which is why I said before our first game that Lander not being ready to contribute and change that dynamic a bit...would be an ominous sign. We have a group of solid support players on the perimeter. And we’ll continue to lose to teams with difference makers out there. Iowa has a stable of them. So does Illinois. OSU has Walker and Washington. Michigan has the transfer PG. Wisconsin has Trice. Rutgers has a couple stud guards.

Without question we’re better than we were a year ago. But we’re not good enough to compete with Top 4-5 teams in our conference. A d that sucks.
Average? Might be our high water mark.
 
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mushroomgod_1

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I told everyone on here Lander was one of the most overrated 5 stars I've ever seen in person.
Could he become good ..Yes.
But I believe he'll be here as a Jr..
Illinois/ MSU / Iowa..Those three are on another level compared to the rest of the Big Ten.

You were certainly right about Lander......painful to compare him to Illinois' freshman pg.
 
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mushroomgod_1

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I think you’re really underrating Franklin. Rob and Al are what they are at this point, serviceable, but not one’s to take over a game. But Franklin is big and physical and has been a pleasant surprise. Jump shot needs to improve and sometimes gets caught under the basket, but he’s aggressive and attacks the rim. Also our best defender. Has drawn lottery picks in his last two games and has done a tremendous job. Barnes hit two big shots in OT but was held in check outside thst.


Not underrating them at all

Al, Franklin, Rob & Lander collectively were 8-30 overall, 2-11 from 3, with 7 assists and 7 TOs. Franklin was 3-9, 0-2 on 3s, with 3 TOs and 1 assist. He did have 8 rebounds and played good D.

Overall, they played very hard with very poor results. Watching the game, they appeared to be at risk of turning the ball over every time down the court. They were overmatched on quickness and size, and Al & Franklin are mediocre to poor ball handlers anyway.
 
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McHoop

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Its too bad...we have a very good front court with TJD and Race. And it’ll get better when Brunk gets healthy and the more comfortable Hunter gets. Those guys have, and will, put us in a lot of games. Problem will be, too often I fear, that our backcourt guys just aren’t difference makers. They can’t consistently make winning plays/shots.

Which is why I said before our first game that Lander not being ready to contribute and change that dynamic a bit...would be an ominous sign. We have a group of solid support players on the perimeter. And we’ll continue to lose to teams with difference makers out there. Iowa has a stable of them. So does Illinois. OSU has Walker and Washington. Michigan has the transfer PG. Wisconsin has Trice. Rutgers has a couple stud guards.

Without question we’re better than we were a year ago. But we’re not good enough to compete with Top 4-5 teams in our conference. A d that sucks.


It makes me want to set my hair on fire watching them muff open jumpers. Once last night, Franklin got a serendipitous bounce of a ball and found himself able to take a dribble, gather and shoot a wide open three.... for naught. I could beat most of these guys in H-O-R-S-E.

And then, when I watch kids from Iowa shoot it makes it even worse....

McHoop
 

jsig

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Not underrating them at all

Al, Franklin, Rob & Lander collectively were 8-30 overall, 2-11 from 3, with 7 assists and 7 TOs. Franklin was 3-9, 0-2 on 3s, with 3 TOs and 1 assist. He did have 8 rebounds and played good D.

Overall, they played very hard with very poor results. Watching the game, they appeared to be at risk of turning the ball over every time down the court. They were overmatched on quickness and size, and Al & Franklin are mediocre to poor ball handlers anyway.

I don't really feel good when Al and Franklin drive into the paint. It is kind of like the Troy/Green No feeling. Al does OK until he tries to go to fast or shoot it over 3 bigs. He is a senior and should do better deciding when to take the shot or pull it back out or play under control. As far as Franklin, I think he should be coming off the bench as defensive guy. I like him a lot especially as defender but he still has lapses that you might see in an underclassmen.

I feel a lot better when Rob has the ball in his hands. I think Hunter should play more with Trace and Race. Maybe Archie doesn't feel he has enough ball handlers if he switches Hunter in for Franklin but I think Rob, hunter and Al on the court together might improve the 3 point shooting. Not sure Archie is making the perimeter shooting a priority though.
 
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Ha let's be honest ..Collectively the whole team is about average..
It's easy to see..Are they junk ? No...They'll play enough defense to stay in most games .But about .500 in the Big this year. Would mean you're pretty good..Brunk isn't a season changer.
But his added deph would help. In this long up coming covid winter..They still give me something to look forward to watch....But I sure am missing those trip's to Btown for dinner,drinks and Indiana basketball..
Go Hoosiers !
 

Birnk403

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Nov 17, 2019
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Its too bad...we have a very good front court with TJD and Race. And it’ll get better when Brunk gets healthy and the more comfortable Hunter gets. Those guys have, and will, put us in a lot of games. Problem will be, too often I fear, that our backcourt guys just aren’t difference makers. They can’t consistently make winning plays/shots.

Which is why I said before our first game that Lander not being ready to contribute and change that dynamic a bit...would be an ominous sign. We have a group of solid support players on the perimeter. And we’ll continue to lose to teams with difference makers out there. Iowa has a stable of them. So does Illinois. OSU has Walker and Washington. Michigan has the transfer PG. Wisconsin has Trice. Rutgers has a couple stud guards.

Without question we’re better than we were a year ago. But we’re not good enough to compete with Top 4-5 teams in our conference. A d that sucks.
Offensively, I’m not sure they’re good enough to be termed “average”. From a shooting standpoint, it’s not debatable.
 

bsmitty08

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I know you did. But he was still a highly rated, play making guard. And hes competing with one of the worst backcourts in the Big Ten.

The book on Al, Armaan, and Rob is out. I actually like our freshman a lot. But the fact that none of them have displaced any of our returning guys, at all...isn’t good for our prospects to climb the standings. And that sucks. There are a lot of freshmen contributing heavily all over the country.
Leal, Galloway and Lander haven’t show they can be difference makers. Galloway will be your glue guys defender but isn’t a scorer or shooter. Leal is supposed to be a shooter but can’t get on the floor for a team that can’t shoot to save their lives. Lander looks like a middle school kid still.
 

kkott

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I don't really feel good when Al and Franklin drive into the paint. It is kind of like the Troy/Green No feeling. Al does OK until he tries to go to fast or shoot it over 3 bigs. He is a senior and should do better deciding when to take the shot or pull it back out or play under control. As far as Franklin, I think he should be coming off the bench as defensive guy. I like him a lot especially as defender but he still has lapses that you might see in an underclassmen.

I feel a lot better when Rob has the ball in his hands. I think Hunter should play more with Trace and Race. Maybe Archie doesn't feel he has enough ball handlers if he switches Hunter in for Franklin but I think Rob, hunter and Al on the court together might improve the 3 point shooting. Not sure Archie is making the perimeter shooting a priority though.
As a guard, when you're driving into the paint, you either need to have a clear path to the basket/backboard, or know where your teammates are if their bigs are converging to help. Sometimes it seems our guys get in the air with 2-3 guys around them, and are then trying to figure out what to do. By then, it's too late!
 
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kkott

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Leal, Galloway and Lander haven’t show they can be difference makers. Galloway will be your glue guys defender but isn’t a scorer or shooter. Leal is supposed to be a shooter but can’t get on the floor for a team that can’t shoot to save their lives. Lander looks like a middle school kid still.
I think Galloway will add scoring, not so much shooting but drives and pullups as he gets comfortable with the game, size and speed. I think he's still a little nervous and wide-eyed at times... and with good reason; FSU had some of the best athlete's he's going to see all year.
 
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bsmitty08

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I think Galloway will add scoring, not so much shooting but drives and pullups as he gets comfortable with the game, size and speed. I think he's still a little nervous and wide-eyed at times... and with good reason; FSU had some of the best athlete's he's going to see all year.
Problem with Galloway though is the spot he plays you need him to hit outside shots.
 
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mushroomgod_1

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I don't really feel good when Al and Franklin drive into the paint. It is kind of like the Troy/Green No feeling. Al does OK until he tries to go to fast or shoot it over 3 bigs. He is a senior and should do better deciding when to take the shot or pull it back out or play under control. As far as Franklin, I think he should be coming off the bench as defensive guy. I like him a lot especially as defender but he still has lapses that you might see in an underclassmen.

I feel a lot better when Rob has the ball in his hands. I think Hunter should play more with Trace and Race. Maybe Archie doesn't feel he has enough ball handlers if he switches Hunter in for Franklin but I think Rob, hunter and Al on the court together might improve the 3 point shooting. Not sure Archie is making the perimeter shooting a priority though.


Al could use a better stop and pop and/or teardrop game.
 
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mushroomgod_1

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Ha let's be honest ..Collectively the whole team is about average..
It's easy to see..Are they junk ? No...They'll play enough defense to stay in most games .But about .500 in the Big this year. Would mean you're pretty good..Brunk isn't a season changer.
But his added deph would help. In this long up coming covid winter..They still give me something to look forward to watch....But I sure am missing those trip's to Btown for dinner,drinks and Indiana basketball..
Go Hoosiers !


I think we're better than average......borderline top 25.

Looking at the BIG, clearly worse than ILL, WIS, MSU & Iowa. Clearly better than MN, MD, OSU, PSU, NW & Neb. I put us in a group with Rutgers, Michigan & Purdue. Purdue sucks right now, but they have nice upside.

What bothers me most is I don't see big upside for this team. It's TJD and 9 other guys. Race, Galloway & Linder have been overhyped. Seeing little improvement from Hunter. Al, Rob & Franklin are all very limited. The 2nd thing that bothers me is the likely drop off for year 5 of Archie if/when TJD leaves....he's 1/2 the team right now.
 

mushroomgod_1

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I think Galloway will add scoring, not so much shooting but drives and pullups as he gets comfortable with the game, size and speed. I think he's still a little nervous and wide-eyed at times... and with good reason; FSU had some of the best athlete's he's going to see all year.


I think that what last night showed is that TG won't have much impact against the better teams unless/until he finds his shot. He'll be pretty effective against mediocre teams but we don't need him for that.
 

sdhoosier

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Dec 21, 2001
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So Calif
Hes solid. He’s not a guy that’s going to go make plays to win games. And he’s not a guy that will make open shots if someone else makes a play to get him open. At least not consistently.

He drove baseline into 3 defenders late in the game...had Race diving open to the basket...threw it into the defenders hands.

He had a relatively open 15 foot jumper late in the game...he missed it.

He had his hands down on Barnes in over time and allowed him to step into a comfortable 3...which he hit.

He had an opportunity to secure the ball on a rebound in regulation. He got it poked away.

He gave up the winning basket. Tough shot, but he gave it up.

He’ll obviously improve. But he isn’t gonna become AJ Guyton or Yogi all of a sudden.


Franklin’s late 3 sends Hoosiers past Notre Dame 62-60

Dec 21, 2019

NDIANAPOLIS (AP) — Armaan Franklin made a 3-pointer with 15.7 seconds left Saturday, giving the Hoosiers a come-from-behind 62-60 victory over Notre Dame in the Crossroads Classic.

Franklin finished with 17 points to lead the Hoosiers (11-1, 1-1 Big Ten) to their fourth consecutive win over the Fighting Irish.
 

Coach Geez

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I think we're better than average......borderline top 25.

Looking at the BIG, clearly worse than ILL, WIS, MSU & Iowa. Clearly better than MN, MD, OSU, PSU, NW & Neb. I put us in a group with Rutgers, Michigan & Purdue. Purdue sucks right now, but they have nice upside.

What bothers me most is I don't see big upside for this team. It's TJD and 9 other guys. Race, Galloway & Linder have been overhyped. Seeing little improvement from Hunter. Al, Rob & Franklin are all very limited. The 2nd thing that bothers me is the likely drop off for year 5 of Archie if/when TJD leaves....he's 1/2 the team right now.

Surprised to hear you say that about Race? Think he's vastly improved and can function well in the offense. Consistency will be the key. Hunter and Lander have been disappointments but would guess (hopefully) we'll some some marked improvement by Lander before seasons end.

If IU brings the energy every night, their defense is good enough to keep them in just about every game. There will be nights where Durham is on and can get us a cool 18-20 points but agree we've likely seen the ceiling from Al and Rob. Unfortunately we'll see nights I'm afraid like we did against Texas and see some real clunkers.

Overall I think this team is much better than simply average. Not an elite team, but definitely a fringe top 25 team. Where that translates into B10 standing I haven't clue, the league is stacked and our schedule does us no favors,