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'One and Done' MAY be done in 2021

That's an incredible resume out of a non Power 5 conference. And he would have been in a Power 5 conference sooner, except for the fact that he did so well at UMASS he got an NBA job.

Apparently the idea that he was at UMass and Memphis and those schools can't recruit to the level of Power 5 teams is lost on you guys.

If you want to argue UK fans have unrealistic expectations I wont fight you. If you want to argue that Cal is going to fall off significantly or at all without the 1&D rule you have no data to back that up and are making an assumption based on wishful thinking.

So, is that an excuse? Bruce Weber was at UI, Crean at Marquette, and Davis at IU......

And maybe he went to the NBA because of the Camby thing?

You do know he cheated, right? That’s 2 vacated final fours. Rose and Camby......it’s amazing he still is allowed to coach

Why didn’t a power 5 come calling when he came back from NBA?

We have data for Cal pre one and done.

And you just assume since he is at UK, everything will be the exact same. It won’t be......

I wouldn’t worry about it, Cal won’t be at UK past 2021
 
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If you want to argue UK fans have unrealistic expectations I wont fight you.

Most any sane basketball observer will acknowledge this. Glad we can agree.

If you want to argue that Cal is going to fall off significantly or at all without the 1&D rule you have no data to back that up and are making an assumption based on wishful thinking.

Just the same as you have no data to back up your claim “Cal (won’t) fall off significantly or at all without the 1&D rule“.

I’ll acknowledge he might be better w/o OAD. But also acknowledge he hasn’t had the transcendental OAD player since KAT. And since that 2015 team UK has been far below what they were from 2010-2015. The guys who won’t go pro straight out of HS only have to wait a year (unless a 2 yr minimum is adopted), which under Calipari’s recruiting model he’ll still be fielding young teams - teams w/o the veteran leadership his best teams have had.

So what is going to change? You think UK basketball from 2016-18 is dominant? An E8, Sw16 & Round of 32? Again, Tubby got ran out of town with an E8 and 2 Round of 32’s in his last 3 seasons. Calipari’s seat is gonna get really hot if the Wildcats don’t make the Final Four.
 
Some people are drastically overstating the number of OAD players who would leave straight from HS each year. Most years you’ll only have 4-5 players go from HS. It’s not like the top 20 all go.

And guys like Cal haven’t been doing that well inside the top 10 the last couple years.

It might take one star OAD player off Duke, UK, etc and replace them with a 3-4 year low end 5 star type player. For those who believe the 3-4 year top 40 player is better than the OAD then it’s essentially your belief this rule would make UK, Duke, etc even better. It can’t be both ways.
I agree with a lot of what you say here.

It’s the impact freshman that will be the biggest difference post-OAD. No more Romeo’s or KAT’s. Those guys sprinkled in with 3-4 year guys can make a good team great and a great team a champion.

Cal has always marketed his program as “best to prepare you to play in the NBA”. It’s gonna be interesting to see if he maintains that same mantra and if he can actually develop players to be drafted at the current rate Wildcat players have been.
 
Cal can’t keep those UK fans happy without one and done.

And lord help whoever follows Cal at UK after one and done.....

I’ve always believed Donovan turned down UK twice because of BBN. He has to know how unrealistic the expectations are. Can’t see him leaving the pros for that type of headache.
 
It is really good to have Archie's recruiting established before the 1 and done rule change. I think the change will hurt other schools harder than IU, due to Archie's Inside Out recruiting syrategy, more HS players will want to stay closer to home if they are going to be at that college for 3 to 4 years. I expect College players declaring early after 1 season for the NBA to drop significantly after the new 1 and done rule change, as most one and done McD HS AA talent will test the NBA waters, or go to the G-League or overseas if undrafted. And as a result the quality of play will suffer in NCAA Basketball as many pro players will opt to never step foot on a college campus. I see the G-Leage becoming a more prominent NBA minor league, where some one and done players go staight to the G-League and then get called up to the NBA from the minors similar to baseball. NBA did not really have an established minor league system when the ine-and-done rule was orginally put in place, mainly to protect players from being undrafted and then losing college eligibility, or NBA teams from drafting purely on potential alone and striking out on over-rated HS or foreign players.
 
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There are no 3-4 year players better than Marvin Bagely. Remove just him from Duke, are they better?

Same thing with Knox from UK.....better or worse?

And again, look at the low end 5 stars Arizona pulled in the last 10 years. They haven’t been to a final four in a decade.

And this year, just remove Zion from Duke. No 3-4 year player can touch that. Just that one player makes a huge difference.

And Romeo this year. How have expectations changed?

The gap between a one and done vs any other player is huge.
That’s fine. Just don’t tell me this and then say you don’t want a team of OADs at IU. It’s one or the other.
 
Look guys, Calipari has always been a coach that needs a lot of talent to succeed. And he has gotten the talent more often than not. But the truth is, there are plenty of coaches out there who can win with Kidd-Gilcrist and Anthony Davis. Your average MAC or MVC coach wins 25-30 games with those guys.

This isn't a debate. Coach K can coach, period. Calipari won't get high results if he doesn't have a talent edge.

Also, Wendell Carter Jr. Is the steal of the draft. He is going to be an outstanding long term pro. Guy can really defend.
 
That’s fine. Just don’t tell me this and then say you don’t want a team of OADs at IU. It’s one or the other.
We potentially could have Carton, TJD & KBJr all as our recruiting class. None of them are serious candidates to be OAD, although it could happen.

Teams that push to have as many OAD’s as possible lose the veteran players influence. It’s even caught up to Duke; despite all that talent they couldn’t get past a Kansas team with less talent but with more veterans. I’d rather have a few sprinkled in than constantly turning over the roster every year.
 
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I would take talent over experience. They have a much higher ceiling. You can't teach talent. This is why Purdue will never win with the current one-and-done rule. In the future, having the top 18 year olds are eligible for the NBA draft, will help Purdue. As the top end talent that they never got will not be suiting up for one of the top programs in the country against them.
 
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They talk out of both sides of their mouth when it comes to UK/ Cal. You cant claim 1&d is at the same time a handcuff and the only reason he wins.

I don't think anyone said the one and done approach can't be successful. If you can land 3-4 of the top 10 HS players year in and year out it certainly can be. Even then you're subject to inconsistency and early tourney exits due to such a young team. See the John Wall UK team or Duke last season or the UK team we beat a few years ago in the round of 32.

Right now only Coach K and Cal have the ability to recruit anywhere near that level. There is no way Archie could possibly be expected to do it even if he wanted. Now maybe after he hangs banners 6 and 7 and coaches the Olympic team to a couple of golds it will be a realistic strategy. Until then the Villanova model is the best strategy for IU basketball.
 
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I don't think anyone said the one and done approach can't be successful. If you can land 3-4 of the top 10 HS players year in and year out it certainly can be. Even then you're subject to inconsistency and early tourney exits due to such a young team. See the John Wall UK team or Duke last season or the UK team we beat a few years ago in the round of 32.

Right now only Coach K and Cal have the ability to recruit anywhere near that level. There is no way Archie could possibly be expected to do it even if he wanted. Now maybe after he hangs banners 6 and 7 and coaches the Olympic team to a couple of golds it will be a realistic strategy. Until then the Villanova model is the best strategy for IU basketball.

John Wall went to the Elite 8. And Duke was one of the best teams in basketball last year and went to the Elite 8. What the hell are you talking about early exit?
 
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We potentially could have Carton, TJD & KBJr all as our recruiting class. None of them are serious candidates to be OAD, although it could happen.

Teams that push to have as many OAD’s as possible lose the veteran players influence. It’s even caught up to Duke; despite all that talent they couldn’t get past a Kansas team with less talent but with more veterans. I’d rather have a few sprinkled in than constantly turning over the roster every year.
But by saying this you’re saying that Uk and Duke will be even better after the OAD rule is changed because they’ll have more veterans on the roster each year.

It can’t be both ways. A team full of OADs can’t be a bad thing, and then at the same time not having it be a hindrance to UK and Duke. That doesn’t make any sense.

Realistically what will happen is the UK’s and Duke’s of the world will drop down and get the Carton’s and TJD’s of the world if they can’t get the top 10 players. Then it pushes the rest of teams down to high 4 stars. Everything is relative.
 
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But by saying this you’re saying that Uk and Duke will be even better after the OAD rule is changed because they’ll have more veterans on the roster each year.

It can’t be both ways. A team full of OADs can’t be a bad thing, and then at the same time not having it be a hindrance to UK and Duke. That doesn’t make any sense.

Realistically what will happen is the UK’s and Duke’s of the world will drop down and get the Carton’s and TJD’s of the world if they can’t get the top 10 players. Then it pushes the rest of teams down to high 4 stars. Everything is relative.

But you are missing a HUGE difference.....

Those schools must now develop those players. Those low end 5 stars don't have the same success rate as one and done......see Arizona.

Also, those years when UK and Duke land those low end 5 stars, the following year they wont. Why? Because those freshman will stick around a year or 2. Which means other schools will land those low end 5 star kids just based on playing time and the top college talent spreads. That's not happening right now.

Yes, of course UK and Duke will be good after one and done. They always have been.

But the talent gap will be much less.
 
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Somebody gets it . . .
All people need to do is look at the two years at UK that he did not have dominating freshman and see what he did. The Noel and Goodwin team struggled and did not make the tournament. I know Noel missed the last part of the season but that team struggled most of the year. Look at the season where we beat them in the second round they had Murray and Ulis but they struggled a little bit that year. This shows if he doe snot have dominating talent he sometimes struggles and that would happened if he does not get all the top one and done players.
 
But by saying this you’re saying that Uk and Duke will be even better after the OAD rule is changed because they’ll have more veterans on the roster each year.

No, I'm not - especially in the case of Calipari.

If kids can go straight to the NBA from HS, the transcendental OAD Calipari has been so successful with in his best teams will no longer be available (or likely not available). Unless there is a minimum 2 year requirement put in place, most of the kids UK's current recruiting strategy targets will STILL be OAD's. So they'll still be turning the roster over at a high rate and still have the lack of veterans. Make sense?
 
No, I'm not - especially in the case of Calipari.

If kids can go straight to the NBA from HS, the transcendental OAD Calipari has been so successful with in his best teams will no longer be available (or likely not available). Unless there is a minimum 2 year requirement put in place, most of the kids UK's current recruiting strategy targets will STILL be OAD's. So they'll still be turning the roster over at a high rate and still have the lack of veterans. Make sense?
I understand what you’re saying absolutely. But I still disagree. You said a couple posts ago that Carton, TJD, and Brooks aren’t likely candidates for OAD. These are the players UK and Duke would be going after if they let the top 5-10 go from HS.

Just because they go to UK doesn’t automatically make them OAD. And I think there’s plenty of proof K and Cal can develop players. They’ve both done it for decades.
 
After the top 10, the realistic chance for lower rated players to be one and done drops significantly. UK, Duke, N.Car, Kansas have dominated these top 10 players out of HS in the last few years. It will hurt UK and Duke the most.
 
After the top 10, the realistic chance for lower rated players to be one and done drops significantly. UK, Duke, N.Car, Kansas have dominated these top 10 players out of HS in the last few years. It will hurt UK and Duke the most.
Actually UNC has not had many top 10 players in the last 6 or 7 years.
 
I understand what you’re saying absolutely. But I still disagree. You said a couple posts ago that Carton, TJD, and Brooks aren’t likely candidates for OAD. These are the players UK and Duke would be going after if they let the top 5-10 go
What I meant is those 3 likely won’t be OAD after 1 year in college (current rules). One of them could possibly be a OAD after their freshman year; none of them are going pro straight out of HS if the rule is changed.

Could these kids end up at Duke or UK? Maybe - but, again, Calipari’s modus operandi has always been “get you to the NBA the quickest”. Even IF they were to get these kids, if they’re going to the NBA after 1 year they’ll be in the same situation.
 
What I meant is those 3 likely won’t be OAD after 1 year in college (current rules). One of them could possibly be a OAD after their freshman year; none of them are going pro straight out of HS if the rule is changed.

Could these kids end up at Duke or UK? Maybe - but, again, Calipari’s modus operandi has always been “get you to the NBA the quickest”. Even IF they were to get these kids, if they’re going to the NBA after 1 year they’ll be in the same situation.
I understand your point and there may be some truth to that. But ultimately I believe the decision to leave after one year comes down to the kid and his family. I don’t think the particular school has much to do with that. Other than the fact that some coaches like Cal put their players best interests above their own when it comes to what they recommend. Would be a lot more selfish of Cal to suggest they come back and help him win more.

For example, guys like Eric Gordon, Vonleh, and Romeo are going one and done whether they go to UK, IU, or Northwestern. Guys like Yogi and Blackmon are staying multiple years regardless of whether they’re at UK, IU, or any other school.

It’s not like Yogi would have gone OAD at UK, just like Knox, Davis, etc wouldn’t have stayed multiple seasons at IU.
 
I understand your point and there may be some truth to that. But ultimately I believe the decision to leave after one year comes down to the kid and his family. I don’t think the particular school has much to do with that. Other than the fact that some coaches like Cal put their players best interests above their own when it comes to what they recommend. Would be a lot more selfish of Cal to suggest they come back and help him win more.

For example, guys like Eric Gordon, Vonleh, and Romeo are going one and done whether they go to UK, IU, or Northwestern. Guys like Yogi and Blackmon are staying multiple years regardless of whether they’re at UK, IU, or any other school.

It’s not like Yogi would have gone OAD at UK, just like Knox, Davis, etc wouldn’t have stayed multiple seasons at IU.

Ehhh -- i'm not all the way anti-Cal like some but let's not pretend like he's necessarily putting the interest of the kids first. it serves cal best when his kids go early. it's the system he created and K perfected.

side note: I agree folks around here look silly not admitting Cal is an exceptional college basketball coach but all these love letters to Cal and Self are a bit much. the whole reason you hire a whore is so you don't have to write her poems. think about it. lol
 
I understand your point and there may be some truth to that. But ultimately I believe the decision to leave after one year comes down to the kid and his family. I don’t think the particular school has much to do with that. Other than the fact that some coaches like Cal put their players best interests above their own when it comes to what they recommend. Would be a lot more selfish of Cal to suggest they come back and help him win more.

For example, guys like Eric Gordon, Vonleh, and Romeo are going one and done whether they go to UK, IU, or Northwestern. Guys like Yogi and Blackmon are staying multiple years regardless of whether they’re at UK, IU, or any other school.

It’s not like Yogi would have gone OAD at UK, just like Knox, Davis, etc wouldn’t have stayed multiple seasons at IU.
I agree totally.

But IMHO Calipari is gonna be targeting the kids who are looking to go pro ASAP. Does that mean they'll always go after 1 year? Maybe, maybe not - but if your stated goal is a "players-first program", while unselfish it will leave you with perpetually young teams.

It will be interesting to see IF the change is made will there be a minimum stay in college requirement of 2 years. That would benefit everyone, and kids who don't go straight to the NBA from HS could still go to the G-League or overseas.
 
Ehhh -- i'm not all the way anti-Cal like some but let's not pretend like he's necessarily putting the interest of the kids first. it serves cal best when his kids go early. it's the system he created and K perfected.

side note: I agree folks around here look silly not admitting Cal is an exceptional college basketball coach but all these love letters to Cal and Self are a bit much. the whole reason you hire a whore is so you don't have to write her poems. think about it. lol

Do we have to bring Louisville into this conversation? :D
 
John Calipari will have his resume for the pros polished up in 3 . . .2 . . .1 . . .

I'm sure Cal already has his exit strategy ready when the one and done rule changes. Cal is basically a G-League coach now.

This won’t hurt Calipari at all. He’ll get the top recruits each year whether they’re top 5 or top 20. It’s all relative.

It’s amazing nobody mentioned it hurting puke either as they have adopted the oad model as well and it has backfired on them like it will this year. Cal hates the oad he feels kids should be able to go right out of high school if they chose to do so. I like the two or nine model better as kids will have to stay two years regardless. Cal will be able to gauge which kids will go and won’t based on feedback he gets from coaches. I will be glad when it’s gone so it will hopefully clear up some corruption in the NCAA. Rest assured him and all over coaches have a plan for this. Do you guys feel Romeo would of actually rent to Indiana for one yeah if he had to? The answer would be no. He’s a top player that has tremendous upside which is what the nba drafts on. I’m sure he won’t be the last one Archie gets between now and 2021
 
Cal has never won anything without guys like Anthony Davis, Marcus Camby, Wall, or DRose. Those guys will all now go straight to the NBA and he will actually have to develop players which he's never shown the ability to do. This will absolutely hurt Cal. I would absolutely take a senior like Juwan Morgan over the fringe 5 stars that Cal will be able to rent for a year or 2 once players can go straight to the pros.
Davis and walk are both on record saying on dan patrick they would of atleast attended one yr. walk could of went because he was 19 and was eligible but chose to come to uk instead
 
It will hurt Cal because the talent gap of the lottery picks is much greater, the non one-and-done's are much closer alike in talent level. Cal won't have the dominant star player as in the past. He will have to do more in-game coaching with no one-and-dones, where he is mediocre.
Cals Memphis team had one player on it in 2008 that was oad in Derrick Rose the rest were upperclassmen he developed. His umass squad had camby that stayed two years to go with other guys he developed
 
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I understand what you’re saying absolutely. But I still disagree. You said a couple posts ago that Carton, TJD, and Brooks aren’t likely candidates for OAD. These are the players UK and Duke would be going after if they let the top 5-10 go from HS.

Just because they go to UK doesn’t automatically make them OAD. And I think there’s plenty of proof K and Cal can develop players. They’ve both done it for decades.
Cal sucks at developing talent

Signed
Shai
Ulis
Briscoe
Josh harrelson (actually got drafted after adding nothing his previous years)
Wcs-ranked in the 40s and was a top ten pick
 
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Cal will still be able to recruit but he will have a choice to make. Sticking around post OAD means tougher recruiting battles on a more level playing field plus having to care about things such as academics and eligibility which are not issues for his current mercenaries. uk grads that are honest tell me that they like the wins but don't like what the program has become...disconnected and outsourced. They have a g-league program with their jersey on.
 
Cal sucks at developing talent

Signed
Shai
Ulis
Briscoe
Josh harrelson (actually got drafted after adding nothing his previous years)
Wcs-ranked in the 40s and was a top ten pick
Some here will just never admit Cal is a good coach. At least we don’t have to hear them adamantly demand that Crean is a better coach than him anymore. The knowledgeable posters had to hear this nonsense for 7-8 years and avoid bashing our heads into a wall. It was painful.
 
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Some here will just never admit Cal is a good coach. At least we don’t have to hear them adamantly demand that Crean is a better coach than him anymore. The knowledgeable posters had to hear this nonsense for 7-8 years and avoid bashing our heads into a wall. It was painful.
Turnover crappy will fit right in at ga. He will be able to use his same shitty ties he used at Indiana. They will give him two seasons to bring in talent if he doesn’t do that they will be out with pitchforks chasing his clappy ass out of Georgia
 
It’s amazing nobody mentioned it hurting puke either as they have adopted the oad model as well and it has backfired on them like it will this year. Cal hates the oad he feels kids should be able to go right out of high school if they chose to do so. I like the two or nine model better as kids will have to stay two years regardless. Cal will be able to gauge which kids will go and won’t based on feedback he gets from coaches. I will be glad when it’s gone so it will hopefully clear up some corruption in the NCAA. Rest assured him and all over coaches have a plan for this. Do you guys feel Romeo would of actually rent to Indiana for one yeah if he had to? The answer would be no. He’s a top player that has tremendous upside which is what the nba drafts on. I’m sure he won’t be the last one Archie gets between now and 2021
Boogie, if you read back thru my responses you’ll see I think Cal is a good coach. But how hot does his seat become if he goes multiple years w/o a Final Four - say they don’t get there this coming season?

If you’re honest you know there was complaining on Rupp Rafters last winter when UK was going thru a funk. If he’s still targeting kids looking to go OAD even if they’re the ones who can go straight from HS, he still be turning over the roster nearly every year - almost guarantees having a young, inexperienced (yet talented) squad.

Yes, Romeo would be playing in the NBA next season if he could. In that would be good with that. If I’m an accountant I can leave early and go into the business, but not in basketball? That rule was put in place to keep general managers from making bad picks.
 
Some here will just never admit Cal is a good coach. At least we don’t have to hear them adamantly demand that Crean is a better coach than him anymore. The knowledgeable posters had to hear this nonsense for 7-8 years and avoid bashing our heads into a wall. It was painful.

I don't recall many here proclaiming TC a better coach than Cal. There is a long list of things that TC is better, prep or game coach is not one of them.
 
I don't recall many here proclaiming TC a better coach than Cal. There is a long list of things that TC is better, prep or game coach is not one of them.
It was 90% of the board. Some people have short memories. This board was a full on Crean cult for about 7 years. I’ve never seen anything like it with any fan base in any sport in my 60+ years.
 
Boogie, if you read back thru my responses you’ll see I think Cal is a good coach. But how hot does his seat become if he goes multiple years w/o a Final Four - say they don’t get there this coming season?

If you’re honest you know there was complaining on Rupp Rafters last winter when UK was going thru a funk. If he’s still targeting kids looking to go OAD even if they’re the ones who can go straight from HS, he still be turning over the roster nearly every year - almost guarantees having a young, inexperienced (yet talented) squad.

Yes, Romeo would be playing in the NBA next season if he could. In that would be good with that. If I’m an accountant I can leave early and go into the business, but not in basketball? That rule was put in place to keep general managers from making bad picks.
My personal experience is you’re drastically overstating the frustration in the UK fan base with Cal. I know dozens of UK fans including a couple sizeable boosters who live in Lexington, and they all love the guy. They worship the ground he walks on.

Cal will be at UK until the day he no longer wants to be there. That could be 1 year or 20 more.
 
It was 90% of the board. Some people have short memories. This board was a full on Crean cult for about 7 years. I’ve never seen anything like it with any fan base in any sport in my 60+ years.
Can’t say I agree with your assessment.

Were there people who defended the hell out of Crean? Absolutely, unreal amounts. But 90% of the board said he was a better coach than Cal? Nuh-uh . . .
 
I don't give a crap if it helps or hurts Calipari to get rid of the OAD. He may have to look at player development and focus on academics a little more after the first semester,. It will be up to others to worry about and schedule for years 2, 3 and 4.

My personal feeling is that programs that have relied on a roster of rental players have missed out on watching the growth and development of players. I don't think it has been healthy for college basketball.

A player like LeBron James has no business being forced to attend college or play somewhere else before being accepted into the NBA draft. Kids graduate and go into the military, go to trade schools, or start working at an entry level job. College is not for everyone. Basketball players should be offered the same opportunities as other high school graduates.

There will be some that make bad decisions despite the urging of people to delay entry. There should be some method for those mistakes to be reversed. I don't believe failure to be drafted should make them ineligible to ever play college basketball.
 
Signing with an agent makes you a ineligible for college basketball.
 
Can’t say I agree with your assessment.

Were there people who defended the hell out of Crean? Absolutely, unreal amounts. But 90% of the board said he was a better coach than Cal? Nuh-uh . . .

ahhh....misread the original post

considering Crean's support was down to about 60% after we figured out he couldn't do sheeet with Yogi, Vonleh, and Sheehey, the op is laughable

i have a sneaking suspicion the two dudes who are trying to dominate this board lately just really get off on calling this fan base a bunch of idiots. not saying they are even necessarily wrong, but what a strange foreplay ritual. but hey -- they are way more self-aware than iuscott and that's good enough for me! lol
 
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