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Olivier Saar from Wake Forrest.....

I hope you don't consider me that way. I followed IU since Lou Watson days. Yet I was ND football since 5 years old. That means 60 years of ND football. The only times I rooted for them in BB was against UCLA. I know a lot of people don't like the reversible jacket guys . But I can't help not liking and respecting IU basketball. Bubbles Harris was one of my first favorite players besides McGinnis.
 
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Players that Archie has recruited:
3 and 4 year players: '18-'19 Hunter, Phinisee, Thompson (romeo 1 and done),
'19-'20 Franklin (Brunk-2years, TJD at least 2 years, maybe 3),
'20-'21 Leal, Galloway and Geronimo (Lander 2 maybe 3 years)

Summary:
9 of the 13 kids that Archie recruited are from Indiana
7, 3 and 4 year players
3, 2 or 3 year players
1, one and done
2, transfers that would have been 4 year players.

It is year 4, and IU is returning ALL 5 of its starters. I sure see a trend here, and am surprised that you have "no clue" the type of program Archie is building.
What a reasonable person takes from this is Archie can only recruit regionally and is not getting guys talented enough to have the option to leave for the NBA early.

Both of those are terrible recipes for success. But go ahead and put the crimson blinders on and twist it how you want.
 
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What a reasonable person takes from this is Archie can only recruit regionally and is not getting guys talented enough to have the option to leave for the NBA early.

Both of those are terrible recipes for success.
Yeah, we know - recruit like Cal. That is, if you want to max out at Sweet 16/Elite 8 every year. Is that the new standard of "success"?
 
I don’t see that as his model. What 3-4 year players? You mean Durham, Green, Davis, and Smith?


This will be Miller’s fourth year, and he returns all five starters. He may never have a team this experienced again. But, it’s a mixture of mostly kids that play a ton that he didn’t recruit , some short term players that he recruited mixed with a handful of players that he recruited as four year players.

he has recruited Romeo and Fitzner to each play one season.
He recruited Brunk and TJD to each play two seasons.

going into his fourth year which players has he brought in that will be juniors or seniors that are experienced players? Phin is one guy, and he would have more experience if he wasn’t injury prone. Who else? Race Thompson and Hunter? I think both players could be valuable contributors this upcoming season, but to this point they have been role players.


The truth is, we have NO IDEA, the type of program that Miller is trying to build. He has hung his hat on players that he didn’t recruit, and 1-2 year players that he did like Romeo and Brunk.

We will be darn good next year. I see next year mirroring the Crean year when he had the #1 seed (not saying we will be a top 5 team, just that next year may be the apex of the Miller era at IU). The year after? Who knows. We lose 4 starters including our entire starting front court (assuming TJD). We will have some young talent but I’m not so sure where they will be in the development process.
DUMB
 
Yeah, we know - recruit like Cal. That is, if you want to max out at Sweet 16/Elite 8 every year. Is that the new standard of "success"?
“Max out?”

In 10 years he’s been to 7 Elite 8s, 4 Final Fours, and won a title. Meanwhile we haven’t been past the sweet 16 in nearly two decades. What in the world are you thinking?

You also made the great guarantee that Calipari couldn’t land the top players anymore. And here he is with 5 five stars including 2 of the top 5. How are you always so wrong?
 
“Max out?”

In 10 years he’s been to 7 Elite 8s, 4 Final Fours, and won a title. Meanwhile we haven’t been past the sweet 16 in nearly two decades. What in the world are you thinking?

You also made the great guarantee that Calipari couldn’t land the top players anymore. And here he is with 5 five stars including 2 of the top 5. How are you always so wrong?
What's he done since 2015?

2016- Round of 32
2017-Elite 8
2018-Sweet 16
2019-Elite 8

And those "2 out of top 5"? Why aren't you using the 247 rankings - like you did when you were trying to say how many 4 stars IU had, remember? And you somehow think either Boston or Clarke qualify as Transcendental One-and-Dones? You think they're going to play the post?

If you recruited like Cal did in his first 4-5 years - where he got NBA-ready studs like John Wall, Anthony Davis, James Young and Karl-Anthony Townes - you might put yourself in line for a title. But Cal hasn't done that. He's got a bunch of wing players and no post players - and, again, no veterans (you know, like Darius Miller?).

But, hey, getting to Elite 8's is the definition of "success" now . . .:rolleyes:
 
What's he done since 2015?

2016- Round of 32
2017-Elite 8
2018-Sweet 16
2019-Elite 8

And those "2 out of top 5"? Why aren't you using the 247 rankings - like you did when you were trying to say how many 4 stars IU had, remember? And you somehow think either Boston or Clarke qualify as Transcendental One-and-Dones? You think they're going to play the post?

If you recruited like Cal did in his first 4-5 years - where he got NBA-ready studs like John Wall, Anthony Davis, James Young and Karl-Anthony Townes - you might put yourself in line for a title. But Cal hasn't done that. He's got a bunch of wing players and no post players - and, again, no veterans (you know, like Darius Miller?).

But, hey, getting to Elite 8's is the definition of "success" now . . .:rolleyes:

No it isn't. Putting players in the NBA is for him...or so he says.
 
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What's he done since 2015?

2016- Round of 32
2017-Elite 8
2018-Sweet 16
2019-Elite 8

And those "2 out of top 5"? Why aren't you using the 247 rankings - like you did when you were trying to say how many 4 stars IU had, remember? And you somehow think either Boston or Clarke qualify as Transcendental One-and-Dones? You think they're going to play the post?

If you recruited like Cal did in his first 4-5 years - where he got NBA-ready studs like John Wall, Anthony Davis, James Young and Karl-Anthony Townes - you might put yourself in line for a title. But Cal hasn't done that. He's got a bunch of wing players and no post players - and, again, no veterans (you know, like Darius Miller?).

But, hey, getting to Elite 8's is the definition of "success" now . . .:rolleyes:
You’re a complete clown. You really are. And your bias is clouding your judgement so bad you don’t even recognize.

You probably also think Alabama is really bad at football, the Patriots are a lousy NFL franchise, and Coach K is a bad coach. Come out from your parents basement and get some fresh air outside the bubble for once.
 
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What's he done since 2015?

2016- Round of 32
2017-Elite 8
2018-Sweet 16
2019-Elite 8

And those "2 out of top 5"? Why aren't you using the 247 rankings - like you did when you were trying to say how many 4 stars IU had, remember? And you somehow think either Boston or Clarke qualify as Transcendental One-and-Dones? You think they're going to play the post?

If you recruited like Cal did in his first 4-5 years - where he got NBA-ready studs like John Wall, Anthony Davis, James Young and Karl-Anthony Townes - you might put yourself in line for a title. But Cal hasn't done that. He's got a bunch of wing players and no post players - and, again, no veterans (you know, like Darius Miller?).

But, hey, getting to Elite 8's is the definition of "success" now . . .:rolleyes:

I hate the endless back and forth with the ingrained anit-CAM/IU crowd, and have whoever you're arguing with blocked, but I'm not sure how any IU fans can belittle what UK has accomplished in Calipari's tenure as beneath us in terms of tourney results. Could/should they have done more with that talent? That's arguable. That fact that we'd have killed for that level of success in any period, even if we desired more really isn't.
 
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I hate the endless back and forth with the ingrained anit-CAM/IU crowd, and have whoever you're arguing with blocked, but I'm not sure how any IU fans belittle what UK has accomplished in Calipari's tenure as beneath us in terms of tourney results. Could/should they have done more with that talent? That's arguable. That fact that we'd have killed for that level of success in any period, even if we desired more really isn't.
Let's be clear: I'm not jealous of what UK has achieved. And, for the record, I think what Calipari has done - getting guys with one foot out the door to the NBA to play hard and play together - to be a really good job.

But when I say I don't want to turn a roster over every year - and I comment on what Cal has done since 2015 - it has to do with having teams that have to rely on youth EVERY year without veterans. IMHO it's no coincidence that UK (and Duke) won their only titles utilizing the OAD concept when they had key veteran guys (Darius Miller / Quin Cook).

IF you're going to go the OAD route, you better be getting all the Transcendental OAD's you can - and, even then, it's no guarantee. Hell, Duke had the #1, #2 and #3 players in the nation and STILL never made it to the Final Four.

Would I like to get some 5 Stars? Hell yeah, I would - but if the goal is to load your roster with them EVERY YEAR that youth is going to catch up with you. I'd like a couple to compliment veteran teams, guys that can help you get over the hump.
 
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Let's be clear: I'm not jealous of what UK has achieved. And, for the record, I think what Calipari has done - getting guys with one foot out the door to the NBA to play hard and play together - to be a really good job.

But when I say I don't want to turn a roster over every year - and I comment on what Cal has done since 2015 - it has to do with having teams that have to rely on youth EVERY year without veterans. IMHO it's no coincidence that UK (and Duke) won their only titles utilizing the OAD concept when they had key veteran guys (Darius Miller / Quin Cook).

IF you're going to go the OAD route, you better be getting all the Transcendental OAD's you can - and, even then, it's no guarantee. Hell, Duke had the #1, #2 and #3 players in the nation and STILL never made it to the Final Four.

Would I like to get some 5 Stars? Hell yeah, I would - but if the goal is to load your roster with them EVERY YEAR that youth is going to catch up with you. I'd like a couple to compliment veteran teams, guys that can help you get over the hump.

You're talking methods, I'm talking results. There are a variety of ways to accomplish the task, but at the end of the day as IU, we'd have loved to have had the results that they've had under Calipari even if you want to argue they should have done more.
 
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You're talking methods, I'm talking results. There are a variety of ways to accomplish the task, but at the end of the day as IU, we'd have loved to have had the results that they've had under Calipari even if you want to argue they should have done more.
Oh, I would have loved to have had that success.

But if you remember what I posted about Crean 3 years back, it’s (to me, anyways) about building sustainable success toward winning championships. Does that mean you couldn’t when using the UK one and done model? No - but I think it’s more likely winning with the veteran team then it will be having a young roster every year.
 
You're talking methods, I'm talking results. There are a variety of ways to accomplish the task, but at the end of the day as IU, we'd have loved to have had the results that they've had under Calipari even if you want to argue they should have done more.

Agreed.

how can any IU fan be critical of 2 elite 8s and a S16 in the last four years?

until IU has a four year stretch that is better, who are we to talk? We can’t even make 4 NCAA tournaments in a row. If someone states that IU basketball will never have a stretch better than UKs last four (as measured by tourney success), who’s to say they’ll be wrong.

I don’t like pUKe or coach Cal. But, 2 elite 8s in four years ain’t too shabby. And it’s a universe away from IU,
 
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Agreed.

how can any IU fan be critical of 2 elite 8s and a S16 in the last four years?

until IU has a four year stretch that is better, who are we to talk? We can’t even make 4 NCAA tournaments in a row. If someone states that IU basketball will never have a stretch better than UKs last four (as measured by tourney success), who’s to say they’ll be wrong.

I don’t like pUKe or coach Cal. But, 2 elite 8s in four years ain’t too shabby. And it’s a universe away from IU,

Cal is bothering me less these days, maybe because it just seems the rest of college bball has gotten so slimy. The worst of the bunch to me was still the UNC African American studies debacle, and after they skated, I think I kind of figured, WTF. Plus, I had a friend who's father was a pretty well-known Coach, but slipped off the radar a bit in coaching circles after he retired. He ended up with cancer, but he'd coached at Memphis in the 70s and she said Cal was one of the few coaches who followed up and even came to see him. He may be an egotistical ass, but I think he does care about his players and friends.
 
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