Number of transfers in cause you concern?

TMFT

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I posted this on the Purdue board last week, so to be consistent I'll do so here too.

Does the number of transfers IU has coming in cause you concern? The response from the Purdue board generally boiled down to "we want to win, so don't care as long as it works." Which I think is the wrong attitude for college programs to have. The best part, for me, of watching college sports is being able to watch kids grow over their time at a school. That's what I loved about the IU basketball calendar as a kid, seeing those same faces every year and being able to watch them grow each year watching the games.

For clarity, I would like to start out by saying my order of preference for players are (1) HS recruited kids, (2) JUCO recruits, (3) grad transfers, and (4) normal transfers. I'm not a fan of how the transfer portal has created this quasi free agency feel to college sports.

But I also understand that transfers have become a part of the game, so no need for me to yell at clouds or tell kids to get off my lawn.

I will say that I like that IU seems to generally go after grad transfers to fill gaps vs chasing a bunch of young transfers. I also don't look at the transfers in as being "necessary" to fill gaping holes. For example, the WR (Matthews) is going to be a luxury to have, but wasn't a necessity given the WR talent IU has.

I do think a large number of transfers in should be concerning to a degree because it implies they weren't able to recruit, train, and/or retain enough players able to contribute to the degree necessary.

What say you?
 

vesuvius13

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I think the current transfers for IU is about the roster imbalance that our last coach left. I will be disappointed if next season sees IU pulling any transfers in other than special talent players. IU will have coach Allen's recruits throughout the roster in 2022. Still I have no problem bring in a transfer that IU was recruiting but chose another school like Carpenter. Some times a player realizes he made a mistake and wants to come to IU.
 
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IUNCAAChamps2012

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I would be concerned if LEO wasn’t a thing and we were just bringing in any and everybody who might be able to help. Coach allen knows what he is looking for and won’t take “risks” as it were.

Also, In the same way it is enjoyable to watch kids develop and grow...there are an equal number who may not have the opportunity for some reason or another (e.g., Carr at USC being a square peg in a round hole with the air raid offense over there). If he can help us, fills an immediate need, and we can see him take the next step in his college career at IU...why wouldn’t we pursue him?
 

Bowlmania

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I posted this on the Purdue board last week, so to be consistent I'll do so here too.

Does the number of transfers IU has coming in cause you concern? The response from the Purdue board generally boiled down to "we want to win, so don't care as long as it works." Which I think is the wrong attitude for college programs to have. The best part, for me, of watching college sports is being able to watch kids grow over their time at a school. That's what I loved about the IU basketball calendar as a kid, seeing those same faces every year and being able to watch them grow each year watching the games.

For clarity, I would like to start out by saying my order of preference for players are (1) HS recruited kids, (2) JUCO recruits, (3) grad transfers, and (4) normal transfers. I'm not a fan of how the transfer portal has created this quasi free agency feel to college sports.

But I also understand that transfers have become a part of the game, so no need for me to yell at clouds or tell kids to get off my lawn.

I will say that I like that IU seems to generally go after grad transfers to fill gaps vs chasing a bunch of young transfers. I also don't look at the transfers in as being "necessary" to fill gaping holes. For example, the WR (Matthews) is going to be a luxury to have, but wasn't a necessity given the WR talent IU has.

I do think a large number of transfers in should be concerning to a degree because it implies they weren't able to recruit, train, and/or retain enough players able to contribute to the degree necessary.

What say you?
Good post. As you've indicated, transfers are now a huge part of the college game. Bring 'em on!

And it speaks to the reputation of - - and belief in - - a program (like ours) when talented kids are looking to transfer in.
 

BoilerN

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Didn't see this on the Purdue board, but you have transfers to low and look at it all wrong. Look at Purdue and iu. Theybare getting a level of athlete out of the portal that they struggle to get out of high school. Both have gotten a former top 100 DE from an SEC school, purdues a freshman, iu's a sophmore. So that's close to getting them out if high school. Purdue got a LB from Auburn that is going to be a sophmore. None of those were choosing Purdue or iu over auburn or south Carolina.

So yes, absolutely they should be using the portal if they want to compete and get better.
 

Bobby9

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I would be concerned if LEO wasn’t a thing and we were just bringing in any and everybody who might be able to help. Coach allen knows what he is looking for and won’t take “risks” as it were.

Also, In the same way it is enjoyable to watch kids develop and grow...there are an equal number who may not have the opportunity for some reason or another (e.g., Carr at USC being a square peg in a round hole with the air raid offense over there). If he can help us, fills an immediate need, and we can see him take the next step in his college career at IU...why wouldn’t we pursue him?
interesting conversation--my feeling--if coach feels recruit is meets same qualifications as others and he can help IU team, why not bring him in ?? No matter what , winning is still the name of the game and coach knows that--
will be proven by fan numbers this year--full houses--so go for it!!
 

YOTHN

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I think this new transfer situation is very different and a bit of a shock. Rightfully so. Unfortunately so many other people now have the same passion as us for collegiate sports that the revenue pool has shifted the balance and value of student athlete talent. This has been happening for a long time but its been suppressed which is why we've had some awkward years with NCAA rules for many decades. These changes aren't being made as a normal method of improving the product as much as realigning the power student athletes now truly hold. So although in the perfect world we wouldn't have this, in reality it should've happened long ago.

The real question we need to be asking is, will IU be able to handle the changes with ease and capitalize on them. So far I think we certainly have.

People have to understand IU will have good talent leave so we will always be in the transfer pool most every season. Its how we handle this new environment that will allow us to get a leg up. For football, the timing looks PERFECT!
 

Fenny72

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If we are able to improve our talent and depth by accepting transfers, I'm all in believing Coach Allen and the rest of the staff and trusting their talent/LEO evaluation and fit for the program. Also, I expect that we'll continue to lose Talented players to the NFL draft a year early, which would cause a need for those Grad Transfers as well.
 

IU_Hickory

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Not a big fan of the the whole free agency feel but i think covid and now free agency may have helped IU football more so than already established programs.


In regards to covid helping, I think one could argue that success this past season was helped by not having crowds in the stands. We didn't have to deal with hostile environments or refs that may have been swayed by home crowds. While that may or may not have had much of an impact but it didn't hurt.

As for free agency, it is allowing our recent success to lead to presumably a quicker upgrade in talent. Not only are we after higher rated recruits but now we are able to sway talented transfers that otherwise may not have been an option before the rule change. Perfect timing for IU. This is more likely to hurt established programs as talent may spread out to other teams when they find playing time harder to come by and now don't have to sit out a year to go elsewhere.

The icky transfer extravaganza is perfect timing for both of our programs as woodson was also able to fill up the basketball roster easier with all the transfer options available. Just think if it was like this when Crean was hired. Probably wouldn't have had to do a multi-year rebuild.
 
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MyTeamIsOnTheFloor

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It’s the new normal

Generally, it CAN allow the have-nots to get a better roster quicker. But if you take too many and destroy your team chemistry and trust, BOOM. And MANY kids who hit the portal find no place to land. A scholarship as a path to a degree needs to regain its value.
 
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Bowlmania

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Something else that should be mentioned is NIL (name, image, likeness) legislation. Right now these laws are being enacted only at the state level. Unless and until there's federal legislation, making college athletes throughout the country eligible for NIL compensation, schools in some states will be able to leverage NIL rights in recruiting. For example, Florida's NIL law goes into effect July 1 (barring court intervention). So Dan Mullen's anticipated new pitch - - Come to UF, and get paid while you're playing!
P.S. Just to be clear, the schools won't be paying the kids. The $$ will come from third parties.
 
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turney333

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Right now, things are a bit of a free-for-all, but think that it will settle down in a few years, and will ultimately benefit college sports. While there certainly are players that are just looking for the easiest path towards playing time or a bigger spot light, I think that after a few years, players considering transferring will have a lot of examples/evidence from previous transfers that the grass isn't always greener somewhere else.

Besides the players looking for a playing time/bigger spot light, there are certainly a lot of players that are legitimately in a bad spot. Things that are perhaps unexpected - coaching and/or scheme changes that no longer need their specific skillset, not meshing well with coaches or teammates, not being a good academic/nonathletic fit for a school. Alternatively, I also think that a lot of HS recruits are straight up mislead by staff and/or certain coaches don't really have the best interests of the players as a priority. These players shouldn't be forced to be miserable just to prove they can stick to a commitment.

In the end, I think the transfer market will force coaches to be more upfront and honest during recruitment, and really work hard to find the players that are the right fit for their program and work to make sure they feel welcome and fit in. Coaches/staffs that can't do this will be on the losing end of the transfer market and won't last long.
 

limestonecowboy

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Way too much hand-wringing with OP and that first reply.

Tom Allen should get all the good-fit transfers his heart desires. Great athletic programs frequently get transfers...it's not an inditement on previous recruiting lol...and it's not like we're a top 10 recruiting program anyway. Let's not look for ways to feel bad about getting guys like the Auburn kid.
 
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BoilerN

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Something else that should be mentioned is NIL (name, image, likeness) legislation. Right now these laws are being enacted only at the state level. Unless and until there's federal legislation, making college athletes throughout the country eligible for NIL compensation, schools in some states will be able to leverage NIL rights in recruiting. For example, Florida's NIL law goes into effect July 1 (barring court intervention). So Dan Mullen's anticipated new pitch - - Come to UF, and get paid while you're playing!
P.S. Just to be clear, the schools won't be paying the kids. The $$ will come from third parties.
Even though it's allowed at a state level, it still violates NCAA rules no? Meaning that laws are really just for show?
 

82hoosier

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Something else that should be mentioned is NIL (name, image, likeness) legislation. Right now these laws are being enacted only at the state level. Unless and until there's federal legislation, making college athletes throughout the country eligible for NIL compensation, schools in some states will be able to leverage NIL rights in recruiting. For example, Florida's NIL law goes into effect July 1 (barring court intervention). So Dan Mullen's anticipated new pitch - - Come to UF, and get paid while you're playing!
P.S. Just to be clear, the schools won't be paying the kids. The $$ will come from third parties.
What will stop someone from hooking up with 25 auto dealerships to sponsor $50,000 payments to a college‘s football recruits. One or two Hoosier alumni just paid $10 million to buy out Archie Miller’s contract.
 
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limestonecowboy

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Also, it sounds very holier than thou to characterize a kid transferring to IU as them "realizing the error of their ways". Don't sound like you're ready to offer a pardon to any kid that committed the "SiN!" of playing somewhere else for a little bit.

And if next year a 4 or 5 star guy wants to transfer here....cool!...yes please!
 
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MyTeamIsOnTheFloor

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What will stop someone from hooking up with 25 auto dealerships to sponsor $50,000 payments to a college‘s football recruits. One or two Hoosier alumni just paid $10 million to buy out Archie Miller’s contract.
That’s exactly what will happen.

Local car wash pays guys, puts their faces on a calendar with the schedule. You get one with a “Buy 5 get 1 free wash” coupon book. Advertising. Mad Men.

Star QB gets an Escalade from Johns Auto Sales.

Etc.
 
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Courtsensetwo

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Just understand that this is a two way street and some kids will transfer out if they believe a bigger stage will welcome them.
 

Crossblock

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Something else that should be mentioned is NIL (name, image, likeness) legislation. Right now these laws are being enacted only at the state level. Unless and until there's federal legislation, making college athletes throughout the country eligible for NIL compensation, schools in some states will be able to leverage NIL rights in recruiting. For example, Florida's NIL law goes into effect July 1 (barring court intervention). So Dan Mullen's anticipated new pitch - - Come to UF, and get paid while you're playing!
P.S. Just to be clear, the schools won't be paying the kids. The $$ will come from third parties.
Ah remember the good old days when Steve Alford was suspended by the NCAA for several games because he posed for and his picture appeared on a Sorority Calendar that was being sold for Charitable Fund raising. My understanding is that the NIL requirements will apply to situations involving sale of products and merchandise. I remember when almost every kid at the game wore an Antwan Randle El or Anthony Thompson Jersey. That is a direct relationship between the product and the Player and the Player should be compensated. If the rules are written in this manner, you eliminate the possibility of payment from an outside Party for being on the roster. To me this would limit the number of people who would really make big money from this activity.

But this also raises questions. If a Player's picture is used by the School in a marketing Plan (Billboard), can the school pay the player for that? What if the Player is interviewed after the Game on the Radio Network, or on the Coaches Weekly radio show, can that be compensated. I remember the old Chicago Cubs Radio Lead Off Show before a ball game, At the end of the interview, they would acknowledged that they were giving the guest a gift Certificate to a local Restaurant or Men' Store. Could something like that be done?

The one thing I don't want to see is NCAA football become Nascar, and allow advertising patches all the Uniform.
 

IUNCAAChamps2012

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Just understand that this is a two way street and some kids will transfer out if they believe a bigger stage will welcome them.
That might be the case, but look at Thomas’ offer list - plenty of big stages available and he chose IU. It might be (assuming current success continues) that the only bigger stage IU needs to worry about is the NFL.
 

Pigalow

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I posted this on the Purdue board last week, so to be consistent I'll do so here too.

Does the number of transfers IU has coming in cause you concern? The response from the Purdue board generally boiled down to "we want to win, so don't care as long as it works." Which I think is the wrong attitude for college programs to have. The best part, for me, of watching college sports is being able to watch kids grow over their time at a school. That's what I loved about the IU basketball calendar as a kid, seeing those same faces every year and being able to watch them grow each year watching the games.

For clarity, I would like to start out by saying my order of preference for players are (1) HS recruited kids, (2) JUCO recruits, (3) grad transfers, and (4) normal transfers. I'm not a fan of how the transfer portal has created this quasi free agency feel to college sports.

But I also understand that transfers have become a part of the game, so no need for me to yell at clouds or tell kids to get off my lawn.

I will say that I like that IU seems to generally go after grad transfers to fill gaps vs chasing a bunch of young transfers. I also don't look at the transfers in as being "necessary" to fill gaping holes. For example, the WR (Matthews) is going to be a luxury to have, but wasn't a necessity given the WR talent IU has.

I do think a large number of transfers in should be concerning to a degree because it implies they weren't able to recruit, train, and/or retain enough players able to contribute to the degree necessary.

What say you?
Nope. Not worried.
 

Rockport Zebra

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I don't really know about the money that players can now make. I have seen a Indiana University bus outside the Owensboro Riverpark center every time the Symphony plays. I am sure they get paid. I see the problem being several stars will get well and the rest of the team, well they get what has always been, 5 years to play 4, room, board and tuition. Some teams players will do well and others will only have a handful making any money. That could be a problem. As for the transfer portal making kids free agents, it seems to be going our way.
 
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Big Red Crimson Buffalo

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I posted this on the Purdue board last week, so to be consistent I'll do so here too.

Does the number of transfers IU has coming in cause you concern? The response from the Purdue board generally boiled down to "we want to win, so don't care as long as it works." Which I think is the wrong attitude for college programs to have. The best part, for me, of watching college sports is being able to watch kids grow over their time at a school. That's what I loved about the IU basketball calendar as a kid, seeing those same faces every year and being able to watch them grow each year watching the games.

For clarity, I would like to start out by saying my order of preference for players are (1) HS recruited kids, (2) JUCO recruits, (3) grad transfers, and (4) normal transfers. I'm not a fan of how the transfer portal has created this quasi free agency feel to college sports.

But I also understand that transfers have become a part of the game, so no need for me to yell at clouds or tell kids to get off my lawn.

I will say that I like that IU seems to generally go after grad transfers to fill gaps vs chasing a bunch of young transfers. I also don't look at the transfers in as being "necessary" to fill gaping holes. For example, the WR (Matthews) is going to be a luxury to have, but wasn't a necessity given the WR talent IU has.

I do think a large number of transfers in should be concerning to a degree because it implies they weren't able to recruit, train, and/or retain enough players able to contribute to the degree necessary.

What say you?
I disagree on the Matthews transfer. He was a real need once Whop left. We have a very good core group of guys but we didn’t have an explosive, quick-twitch athlete out there and every team needs a minimum of 1, if not 2, of those guys that the other team must game plan for. With Fryfogel and Matthews both out there, we create a much more difficult group to plan for as an opponent.
 
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YOTHN

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I don't really know about the money that players can now make. I have seen a Indiana University bus outside the Owensboro Riverpark center every time the Symphony plays. I am sure they get paid. I see the problem being several stars will get well and the rest of the team, well they get what has always been, 5 years to play 4, room, board and tuition. Some teams players will do well and others will only have a handful making any money. That could be a problem. As for the transfer portal making kids free agents, it seems to be going our way.
Right, just like on a high school team you have a player who is getting a D1 scholarship and other players who have no shot at playing at the next level. That is life. All players can collectively benefit from the team doing well but players with more talent are naturally more valuable. There is an elephant in the room there but those other kids can use that as a motivation to work harder to get better. Or, they can quit because life is unfair. That's up to them but I assure you the sport will go on without them.
 
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YOTHN

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The one thing I don't want to see is NCAA football become Nascar, and allow advertising patches all the Uniform.

You may not want to see that but if that uniform advertising was going to those kids, would it truly bother you so bad that you would prefer those kids don't get it? Its just advertising and if you look at Nascar, those sponsorships are in the fabric of those drivers. Tradition tomorrow will be whatever it is we do today.
 

TMFT

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Good discussion fellas.

While I'm clearly in the minority, my concern is whether transfers in indicates that they're not able to recruit/train/retain the kids they need to compete for championships. It's one thing to bring in a handful of grad transfers to fill needs, which I think the coaching staff has been stellar at the last couple of years. It's another thing to rely on transfers widely across the board. I'm not sure we're at the latter yet, but we'll see how it plays out over the next year or two.

I can certainly say I'm more excited about the level of HS recruiting picking up and the prospect of landing some big ones and going into the season with a top 30 or better class.
 

JohnsyRick

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Good discussion fellas.

While I'm clearly in the minority, my concern is whether transfers in indicates that they're not able to recruit/train/retain the kids they need to compete for championships. It's one thing to bring in a handful of grad transfers to fill needs, which I think the coaching staff has been stellar at the last couple of years. It's another thing to rely on transfers widely across the board. I'm not sure we're at the latter yet, but we'll see how it plays out over the next year or two.

I can certainly say I'm more excited about the level of HS recruiting picking up and the prospect of landing some big ones and going into the season with a top 30 or better class.
You have to understand the portal works both ways, as I mentioned in a different thread, we lost 2 DL to graduation and 4 DL to the portal. We “needed” to bring in folks to fill those holes, this doesn’t in any way mean we weren’t able to “ recruit and train” the kids they need. “Retaining” kids is a whole other issue, in today’s world if they are “second” on the depth chart some kids want to go be a ”starter”, nothing you can do. In our defense, in particular, I don’t get it because we play so many guys, which is great because everyone stays fresh. Take Lewis , for instance, he was going to play, not start , but play. Why he leaves exactly is anyone’s guess, but in today’s world you better be using the portal or you will be competing with one arm tied behind your back
 

YOTHN

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You have to understand the portal works both ways, as I mentioned in a different thread, we lost 2 DL to graduation and 4 DL to the portal. We “needed” to bring in folks to fill those holes, this doesn’t in any way mean we weren’t able to “ recruit and train” the kids they need. “Retaining” kids is a whole other issue, in today’s world if they are “second” on the depth chart some kids want to go be a ”starter”, nothing you can do. In our defense, in particular, I don’t get it because we play so many guys, which is great because everyone stays fresh. Take Lewis , for instance, he was going to play, not start , but play. Why he leaves exactly is anyone’s guess, but in today’s world you better be using the portal or you will be competing with one arm tied behind your back
I am with you on this. Naturally we just want things as they were but going back to the old way simply isn't an option. It would be one thing if we were migrating to this new way of collegiate sports as a way to improve the product....yeah, then we should shower them with our disapproval. What we have here is simply something that was going to change because it had to. So we have to work within those confines or the conversation is worthless.

Therefore, knowing this IS the new way of life, I think the portal is going to become just as important as the team you recruit out of HS. Some years you may not need much but way more often than not, prepare to consistently have veteran teams. If your team isn't performing well this year, its likely you use the portal to upgrade holes you had. If your team does great, players will leave and again, you are back in the portal getting talent.

Teams like IU will not be hurt by this changing environment because if a kid is doing well at IU, they are likely to stay. Teams at the bottom of the totem pole and or in mid majors, they will be the ones paying the price most often because their top talent will move to greener pastures. There will be a separation of the have's and the have not's. That's why I think its a matter of time before the major 5 conferences break off and do their own thing in due time.
 

vesuvius13

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Now that players have a one time deal with transferring it may calm down in the future. However, who knows how many, will always leave to seek greener pastures so in that aspect teams must use the portal from here on out.
 
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MyTeamIsOnTheFloor

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All I know is this - when I look at who we lost off of last year's 2-deep, and who we replaced them with from "next man up" and the Port Hole, and who comes back from injury ....

monophy.gif



BEAT IOWA!!
 

limestonecowboy

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Good discussion fellas.

While I'm clearly in the minority, my concern is whether transfers in indicates that they're not able to recruit/train/retain the kids they need to compete for championships.
I mean it's not like we're recruiting the same kind of talent as a Michigan, in terms of class as a whole. Coaching/scheming/developing can only do so much to the bridge talent gap on a consistent basis. Are you suggesting that we have arrived at that level of high school recruiting or that the talent gap doesn't amount to much on gameday?
 
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TMFT

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I mean it's not like we're recruiting the same kind of talent as a Michigan, in terms of class as a whole. Coaching/scheming/developing can only do so much to the bridge talent gap on a consistent basis. Are you suggesting that we have arrived at that level of high school recruiting or that the talent gap doesn't amount to much on gameday?
What I'm getting at is that IU was able to put a B1G championship level squad out there in 2020 overwhelmingly with kids they recruited from HS or JUCO. The only exceptions that I'm seeing are Swann & Powell (both grad transfers I believe) and Tuttle (regular transfer). And I'm 100% fine with plugging holes, particularly with grad transfers.

I know a lot of guys have transferred out (which I believe is the sign of a healthy program), but was IU THAT thin at positions where we're needing to bring in a ton of kids? Or is there some systemic issue that we're not seeing? I can say with certainty that I would not want to see a time where IU starts 6 kids that have come in for one year of eligibility, it would seem kind of mercenary-like.

I'm just trying to see the whole chess board.
 

YOTHN

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I mean it's not like we're recruiting the same kind of talent as a Michigan, in terms of class as a whole. Coaching/scheming/developing can only do so much to the bridge talent gap on a consistent basis. Are you suggesting that we have arrived at that level of high school recruiting or that the talent gap doesn't amount to much on gameday?
Bingo. I think the portal is the biggest equalizer for a middling program in a big conference, like Indiana. We're in the sweet spot right now. Good enough that top transferring talent would consider IU, bad enough we can sell them on instant playing time, yet good enough that top performing players will want to stay. We're going to be driving our rosters off that portal from now until forever or something changes but I think this works heavily in our favor.

I generally see this portal as a way to bring down the depth of top teams and level out the veteran talent pool amongst the conference. It also pulls top talent from the lower level conferences and replaces them into the upper tier conferences.