Not trying to start a war, but....

Discussion in 'IU Football Board' started by TMFT, Dec 3, 2019 at 10:11 AM.

  1. TMFT

    TMFT Newcomer
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    What do you do with Peyton Ramsey?

    I've been a huge fan of his since watching his RS-Fr spring game. I thought he had "it." And coming in off the bench this year, he's been a true captain, even if he only recently got the title.

    I believe three things to be true in this situation:
    1) You shouldn't lose your job due to injury;
    2) Penix has a higher ceiling;
    3) If you have two QBs, you have none.

    I would honestly feel bad for him if he doesn't start next year and he never gets to play meaningful minutes because Penix goes injury free (simultaneously I'd be thrilled for Penix and the team as a whole).

    Arguments for staying are:
    1) he's going to be a coach some day and DeBoer would be a great guy to learn from;
    2) he seems committed to what they're doing in Bloomington;
    3) there's a chance, fairly high chance if you believe Penix is fragile, that he gets a lot of snaps next year;
    4) his arm strength has greatly improved from last year, who knows how much growth he has to close that gap, although admittedly he's not going to get Penix's rocket launcher

    Arguments for leaving:
    1) he's not likely to get the nod because of how the coaching staff decisions went this year;
    2) he's a great kid that's earned playing time that he may not get here;
    3) he's in college and needs to enjoy himself, period. We don't get those years back.

    My opinion, I'd love for him to stay but would 100% support him if he wanted to go have one year as a guaranteed starter. He'd be damn dangerous on a primarily running team with some RPO & play action passing where he can go over the top on occasion. I honestly think he'll transfer, and if he does, IU should throw him a parade to send him off. If he stays, they should throw him two.
     
  2. mattndallas

    mattndallas All-Big Ten
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    Great post.

    I have no idea.

    This situation looms, and the handling could make or break the program for the next 2-4 years (see Sudfeld/Roberson situation, and how that eventually doomed us).
     
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  3. Cream&Crimson

    Cream&Crimson All-Big Ten
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    It is a good question, I'm guessing he stays and finishes out at IU, knowing that there's a very good chance his team will need him again, and he'll want to be there for them. Whether he's QB1 or QB2 at the start of next season, he's earned his leader status on this team. And he seems like the kind of guy who will think he's got so much invested in this program and the progress they made, and will want to be a part of it next year. I can't see him walking away from that. That said, I wouldn't blame him if he did and would be rooting for him to have a great season wherever he went.
     
  4. Univee2

    Univee2 Hall of Famer
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    Well said, and I really like the last two sentences. I'm going to steal that .....

    Ramsey's father has Cincinnati Elder in the state championship game this year. Been a good year for the Ramseys.
     
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  5. JWilk1234

    JWilk1234 Recruit
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    I'd love for Penix not to get hurt next year, but I wouldn't bet on it. Also, I think there is a chance that Ramsey could beat Penix out for the starting job in the spring. I'm sure they will have an open competition.
     
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  6. mattndallas

    mattndallas All-Big Ten
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    I think the coaching staff will be thinking "long term"...as in...

    "no way we're doing anything that would have Michael Penix starting for Florida State or Tennessee for the next 3 years".

    Man, you just can't take that risk.

    I don't know how they do it, and I hope Peyton stays simply as the emergency backup because he digs it here and likes playing on the big stages.

    You go to another "big" school, and you run the risk of competition...leaving you in the exact same place, with a staff that doesn't know you.

    You go to Miami (OH) or Athens (OH) for a secure job....doesn't that still feel like a step down for him? He's gone into Lincoln and won in front of 90k.
     
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  7. Crossblock

    Crossblock Freshman
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    The concern I would have about leaving by transfer is that you are throwing yourself in a different Offensive System where you have to relearn terminology and a system, where your reads may be different. You may not have enough time to become efficient and have the Offense become Second Nature to you. Oklahoma has been able to be very successful several years in a row with One Year Transfer Quarterbacks. However those guys are very athletic and their natural athletic ability has allowed them to overcome their deficiencies and their short time in the System.
     
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  8. turney333

    turney333 All-Big Ten
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    Generally I think most QB transfers fall into 2 categories

    1) Have never gotten extended and meaningful playing time, and not on track to do so in their remaining year(s), and just wants to have a chance to actually play football
    2) Lost starting job after having significant playing time AND has at least an outside shot at a professional QB career and needs to play somewhere to keeps those hopes alive

    I would believe that Ramsey realizes he doesn't have much of a chance at a professional playing career, so he doesn't fit either of these categories and is most likely going to stay.
     
  9. Tegray1

    Tegray1 Junior
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    I think he stays and both will play but Penix will start. How can he leave now? He has already showed to be the ultimate teammate. For all the crap CTA takes about LEO, his players believe in it.

     
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  10. i'vegotwinners

    i'vegotwinners All-American
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    "Not trying to, but"

    i learned long ago how to translate that.
     
    10 i'vegotwinners, Dec 3, 2019 at 11:01 AM
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 11:09 AM
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  11. Bligedy

    Bligedy Hall of Famer
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    Points 2 & 3 of "he goes" make the most sense to me....

    I think he leaves and I wouldn't blame him. You have a finite number of years to play college football and I think he prefers to play.

    He'll be a starting QB at Cincinnati or a MAC school and we'll all miss the hell out of him.
     
    11 Bligedy, Dec 3, 2019 at 11:12 AM
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 11:20 AM
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  12. TMFT

    TMFT Newcomer
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    Honestly I wasn't. I read enough of the PR v. MP debate all summer into the first weeks of the season, which was the genesis of the thread title.

    Just felt like it's the elephant in the room and hope for the best result for all parties.
     
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  13. fkfootball

    fkfootball Senior
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    Ramsey should stay and try to beat out Penix. Penix hasn’t earned anything yet. He’s talented but he’s fragile. Ramsey has more heart than anyone on that roster.
     
  14. rediufan

    rediufan Recruit
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    Something no one has mentioned, if PR would enter the Transfer Portal there is no guarantee that he would granted an immediate eligibility and could be forced to sit a year. The NCAA is not consistent in their decisions when dealing with these situations.
    If he graduates and transfers the ruling might be different. My guess he stays.
     
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  15. Cream&Crimson

    Cream&Crimson All-Big Ten
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    I think if he was going to do that, it would have been this year.
     
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  16. Courtsensetwo

    Courtsensetwo Hall of Famer
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    Nah, he brought up an obvious talking point that we all have and handled both sides of it well. It is a nice problem to have but one that the staff will need to deal with.

    If it creates a "fight", that is on the combatants.
     
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  17. grammy2

    grammy2 Benchwarmer
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    A big deal was made of Ramsey not quitting on his team this year and that he "loved" his teammates too much to quit. He also said he never thought about leaving the team.
    Why would those emotions change next year. He's an IU hero and played plenty this year. He's staying, 100 percent.
     
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  18. YOTHN

    YOTHN All-Big Ten
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    If he stays, great.

    If he isn't going to be the starter and decides to transfer, he'll get looks from a lot of really good teams. Those that say "MAC" have lost their minds. There are a lot of big boy programs in need of replacing QBs and picking up one of the best ones in the B1G would be a monster addition. If Purdues 2 super mediocre QBs could transfer and start for LSU and UF like they did, you better believe Ramsey would have plenty of great options.
     
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  19. Bligedy

    Bligedy Hall of Famer
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    He'd be a graduate transfer.
     
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  20. Classof96'

    Classof96' Senior
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    What we do know is that Penix has not shown that he can stay healthy for an entire season. Thus the chance exists that Ramsey could get a lot of snaps next year. I certainly hope he stays and may the best man win the competition in the offseason. Payton has certainly earned the chance to compete for the job. No question that Penix is more talented, but Ramsey has a toughness about him that the team obviously gravitates to.
     
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  21. Bligedy

    Bligedy Hall of Famer
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    There is a pretty small window for these guys to finish camp and transfer.
     
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  22. kmathum

    kmathum Senior
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    under arguments for staying, number 3 says it all.
     
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  23. Cream&Crimson

    Cream&Crimson All-Big Ten
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    Good point. Well I hope he stays.
     
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  24. MrBing

    MrBing All-Big Ten
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    Run up the score in the first half of every game and then let him play the second! ;)
     
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  25. IndyIUFan66

    IndyIUFan66 Senior
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    First, as a 5th ur grad transfer he could be eligible anywhere.

    Candidly, he is very good but I don’t see him going to a bigger/better school to start. Why transfer to Northwestern or Rutgers? Or why go to a MAC program after B10?

    He is a class act, coaches son, now borderline IU legend. He would either graduate and leave on a super high note, or I think stay for a 5th year.

    If stays, I still would like to see a 10-15lb stronger Penix as starter as I DO think he has a potential NFL arm that takes the passing game to a new level.

    But coaches may want to gov ePenix “load management” where Ramsey would get minutes sooner if IU is up. And let’s face it, few QBs make it a whole season without injury (see Tua at Alabama). Ramsey would very likely get time during season for at least a game or two at starter is my guess.

    He’s earned right to make whatever decision he wants with nothing but gratitude from all. But he’s clearly wanted back and if he wants to play one more season (vs graduate & start his career) then I bet he returns. He has faith things will work out and doesn’t seem to see grass greener elsewhere. Plus, EVERY season he’s had competition and things worked out. TBD
     
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  26. walkerman

    walkerman Newcomer
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    He is such a competitive athlete that I do not see him walking away from competition for starting QB. Like many here I really like the potential of Mike Penix. but I also think Peyton is very underrated by too many fans. Instead of comparing him to Mike obvious superior throwing ability, how did he stack up against the opposing QB's this year on our schedule. IMO only OSU and Michigan had an advantage at his position. I felt last year some of his problems were directly related to Coach Debord's schemes and play calls and please do not dismiss he had some great passes this season that made the difference in the game. I'm not an expert but I think he stays, competes and is the starter against Wisconsin.
     
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  27. td75

    td75 Hall of Famer
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    I beg him to stay, that's what I do with Peyton Ramsey. Penix probably won't make it through a complete season at Indiana. So yeah, I beg Ramsey to continue leading the offense.

    This is coming from a big MP fan. He just seems injury prone and I hate that.
     
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  28. Hoosiers Rising

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    We needed both this year and we will need them both next year.
     
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  29. Chriselli

    Chriselli All-Big Ten
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    Peyton hasn't beaten Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, or Penn State. I think he stays!
     
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  30. frikkenfrakken

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    If he graduates, there's no ruling to worry about. If he doesn't graduate but transfers anyway, he may never play again. He's already been in college 3.5 years. If he sat another year, and then came back, he'd be breaking the 5 years to play 4 rule. They do grant waivers sometimes for that.
     
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  31. IUXC68

    IUXC68 All-Big Ten
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    Dude, do you really expect us to believe your expressed intent? "War" is exactly what you wanted.
     
  32. MKordIUBB

    MKordIUBB Freshman
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    Peyton only has 1 year left and most likely isn’t thinking NFL. Football will not be in his life much longer and playing backup at a school as fun as IU is a great job. There’s a 90% chance he’d get meaningful minutes at some time if he stays.
     
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  33. Walt542

    Walt542 All-Big Ten
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    I agree with the point about staying and learning from coach DeBoer. He gets to practice playing QB coach when MP is healthy and will surely get some time in when MP misses games hurt. PR will make a terrific college coach and learning from CKD is a big time plus for him.
     
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  34. Grateful Redbeard

    Grateful Redbeard Sophomore
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    I hope he stays, but I just can’t see it. MP is the starter and he’ll be back by spring ball. You can’t hit the QB in spring ball or fall camp and MP will look better because he is better.

    Injuries are of course the elephant in the room, as MP has been injured in both seasons and missed multiple games. That said, PR got hurt his RS Fr. year and missed multiple games (He didn’t play as a true Fr.). With another year in the weight room there’s no reason to think that MP can’t get his body ready to start for a full season. PR couldn’t do it until his 3rd season.

    Selfishly, I’d love the depth and I believe that PR is a great teammate. I just can’t see how a guy with zero pro prospects wouldn’t want to be the guaranteed starter somewhere next year? There will be a bunch of teams recruiting him as well. He’ll have his pick of the litter for sure. I just hope Tuttle is ready because we’ll still need a quality backup. Playing in the B1G East demands the you have 2 QB’s.
     
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  35. HereYouGoIU

    HereYouGoIU Benchwarmer
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    nothing Changes.

    Penix starts next season. If still injury prone then Peyton gets starts like this season.

    If Penix truly healthy then PR might leave. Tuttle as back up.

    I think next season is a Combo again of both MP and PR
     
  36. CC  Mac

    CC Mac Senior
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    If Ramsey stays I can’t see Tuttle staying and I’d hate to see him leave.Given the chance I think he could put up some good numbers.
     
  37. MyTeamIsOnTheFloor

    MyTeamIsOnTheFloor Hall of Famer
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    He stays.

    He told Don Fisher on the live electric radio he would graduate in May.

    Thus, he can be a grad transfer anywhere.

    BUT ... he did not go through the Senior Day ceremony, which he woulda done if he was leaving.

    And he told the world on ESP and N that he couldn’t leave the teammates he’d been through all the prep and sweat with and for.

    He may test the NFL, let them eval him, give him a report, but he will be enrolled at IU next Fall getting a Masters and planning his coaching career and IMO playing for us.

    Allen won’t let Penix loses the job “because of” injury, but there WILL be open competition - either in Spring or Fall, depending on when Penix can get full go. Penix and Ramsey and Tuttle will slug it out and the starter will be named a week before the first game.

    #LEO
     
  38. Jssanto

    Jssanto Freshman
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    1. Ramsey starts the bowl game. Penix won’t be ready but regardless Ramsey deserves the start.
    2. No way a kid this tough, studies film preparing to help when needed, has his attitude, work ethic, etc leaves IU
     

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