Not to give ourselves a big head or anything...
- Thread starter Jayhoosier83
- Start date
Athlon and Lindy's both rank the B1G as the second strongest conference for 21-22.
And these bloggers have the right to overrule 20 years of history?
I think I might have revised that up to a B or so after they made all the rest of the hires? Can’t remember.
I’d grade the entire staff revamp at a B, maybe B+. Currently with Woodson bringing that grade down slightly. Fife and Matta being in the A range for their hire versus their respective positions.
A level coaching hires would have been Stevens or Donovan. As unrealistic as both probably were. I think all things considered, Dolson did a pretty good job. Obviously Woodson can change that to home run if he does well.
I would have originally agreed with IU North’s last paragraph. But seeing how Woody has gotten Bates, Schifano, Newton, and kept TJD, Logan, Race, etc and brought in X and Koop, not sure anybody else could have done the same. I also think Woody’s experience playing for Knight means he knows better than most what it means to play hard and with incredible focus and smarts. We got the right guy and I’m certain he will turn out to be a brilliant hire.
I’m excited about all those kids you listed, and others coming in and on the current roster.
But to suggest Stevens and/or Donovan wouldn’t have kept the same or more players, and brought in more talent in their first couple classes…well that would be pretty naive. Heck, look at what Beard did at Texas. Donovan or Stevens would have crushed with transfers and top 50 kids in all likelihood. I’d say with virtual certainty that Donovan would have had a Calipari/Coach K like impact, and we’d immediately be top 10 talent wise. Stevens might not have had the same instant success as Donovan bringing more talent in, but he might have, and in all likelihood would have gotten more top end kids than Woody did thus far.
But yeah, I think he’s done a very good job early on. Well have to see how it all plays out though now. A number of his recruits and transfers have some question marks that they’ll need to answer. Where as a Donovan would bring in the sure fire transfers and recruits that would immediately elevate the program.
Not to say Woody can’t, won’t, didn’t, do that. It’s just more of an unknown.
Who are the more important players they could have kept? Durham graduated, so you can only be talking about Franklin and Hunter. Woodson basically told Hunter there was no room, so the only person he “lost” was Franklin. We don’t get Tamar Bates if Franklin doesn’t leave.
Bates > Franklin.
Woodson IS crushing it with Transfers and top 50 players.
Maybe your right, but it’s pure speculation regarding how successful Donovan and Stevens would be in immediately bringing in great talent. Would they have been able to talk TJD and Race into staying or gotten Bates to come? We don’t know that at all. I’d argue that Woody is bringing guys in who would be perfect for the kind of ball he intends to play. Furthermore, Donovan and Stevens have not exactly turned out to be great NBA coaches. Would I have been thrilled for either to have become our next coach? Sure. But they obviously were interested on taking on a sick patient. I think Woody is going to prove to be a great recruiter, leader and coach.
While Kenya Hunter is the one bringing in these recruits, you give Fife, who hasn't done a thing an A?
Biased much ...
Lead assistant from a program in a better position than IU, has coached and learned under Izzo, well established defensive mind, played under Knight, IU guy, could be a potential HC after Woody, depending on his time frame. It was an A hire for an IU assistant job. Good lord. Do better.
And the fact that we had Hunter in the fold already, an elite recruiter, and Woodson coming in with all his NBA connections…bringing in a guy like Fife To bring elite B10 level coaching and program running experience… So no, not biased.
Mainly Franklin. But Hunter maybe? I’ll take a properly coached Hunter over Kopp probably. If Brunk is healthy it’d be nice to have him for post depth?
You sure a freshman Bates is better than a junior Franklin? Hope so!
Bates and Hood-Scofino so far by my count for top 50 kids? Love both of them…but I don’t think it’s a stretch to say Donovan or Stevens would have brought in more top 50 kids in the 21 and 22 classes…and/or top 50 level transfers coming in 21. There were a TON of major difference makers in this years “transfer class”. We got some solid ones for sure. But Donovan/Stevens would have gotten a couple Marcus Carr level guys.
And I’m VERY happy with how it’s all playing out by the way. Donovan and Stevens were never gonna happen. Beard wasn’t leaving Texas. With Fife and Matta on board, keeping Hunter on board, and getting a guy that both has IU/Knight ties and significant NBA ties…very good result. Woodson on his own though, without the rest of the staff they assembled…A LOT more questions than we now have.
Franklin was very streaky as a shooter, and he was poor inside the arc. He had a negative assist to turnover ratio.
What exactly makes you think Hunter would have been better than Kopp this year? Kopp is a proven scorer and good player at the Big Ten level. Hunter is not. LOL at thinking Brunk makes an impact. He wasn’t good prior to his back going out. No chance he would be better than Durr or Duncomb.
Xavier Johnson was one of the top transfers this off-season. This staff couldn’t be off to a better start than they are. Simply amazing what they have accomplished in 6 months. We will see if it translates to the court.
Franklin…not really streaky. Actually pretty good going to the basket. I’ll take your word for it on the stats, and agree that distributing the ball wasn’t his strength.
Kopp I’d say is a decent shooter. Decent passer. Not a great defender. And very inconsistent on the boards for his size. All things that could be said for Hunter as well. Hunter, however, has much more versatility to his game. I’d take either of them. But I’d have really liked to have seen what the new staff could have done with him.
Brunk was solid when healthy. I admittedly don’t know much about Durr…other than he looks a lot like Deron Davis on his highlights. Brunk vs Duncombe? I’d take a healthy Brunk for one season. Probably take Duncombe though because of his youth and potential. But that is irrelevant as we had both.
I don’t remember who all Xavier was choosing from. He chose IU fairly early after the season, so there wasn’t as much hype as some of the other PG transfers. He also wasn’t really on great terms at Pitt…seemed to be some attitude problems. But he’s good. Definitely improves the position for IU. One of the top transfers good? Not sure on that. Hope so though.
Like I said. I’m happy with the hire and where we’re at. It’s nuts, to me, to think Donovan or Stevens wouldn’t have us in a better position though.
I'm not sure why we are even throwing Donovan's name around in this discussion. He was in yr 1 of a four year/$24M deal with the Bulls. He was never even the slightest option when CAM was dismissed.
As for Brad....I wish we could just move on. He had the table set for him. He passed on IU. And now he's not even a coach. So I'm not sure the Stevens you refer to even exists anymore.
All things considered, IU bball came out of the CAM firing pretty well. Time to get some games in front of us so we stop having all these hypothetical arguments.
As for Brad....I wish we could just move on. He had the table set for him. He passed on IU. And now he's not even a coach. So I'm not sure the Stevens you refer to even exists anymore.
All things considered, IU bball came out of the CAM firing pretty well. Time to get some games in front of us so we stop having all these hypothetical arguments.
Franklin not streaky?? Really? As a freshman he shot 26.6% from 3. He had two games where he was 4/5 and 3/5 from 3. If you take those away he was only 18% from 3. As a sophomore he shot 42.4%. However, there was a stretch where he hit 17 3s in 4 games. He only had 36 3s on the season and 17 came in a 4 game stretch. He was a 32% shooter from 3 outside those 4 games.
Franklin was not good going to the basket. He hit only 43% of his shots inside the Arc.
How does Hunter have more versatility to his game?
Brunk was not good when healthy.
Xavier was the 18th best transfer in the country according to CBS Sports. That’s 18th out of 1700 transfers. He had offers from Baylor and Houston when he chose IU. That’s last year’s national champion and another of the Final 4 teams. He doesn’t have an attitude issue. Clearly you don’t know much about him.
You are complaining because we didn’t get 2 of the greatest college basketball coaches of all time. Woody and company are a phenomenal consolation prize.
By the way, hilarious that you have Fife as an A hire, but not Kenya Hunter. Hunter will be making close to a million per year next year as an assistant. He’s absolutely killed it in the last 6 months.
Neither Donovan nor Stevens were ever, even remotely, possibilities for us. Not once, even for a millisecond. BD wanted to be what he was (an NBA coach), and Stevens did, too. There was zero chance either would be the IU coach. How’s that for finality?
Al Durham was #
Al Durham was #62 on the list. Do you know where Kopp and Durr were ranked?
yeah that was my point...they are arguing scenarios that are complete fiction and serve zero purpose. At the time, I thought Stevens might be possible, but seeing the career move he made since, it's now obvious he never had any true interest in returning to college coaching, at least at this point in his life.
Things look much improved now, but as we learned quickly with CAM (quickly, as in...2 games into his tenure) , it has to translate onto the court. Good thing is we'll soon be debating spread offense, free throw shooting and playing time, and not these made up topics that have been picked apart all summer out of boredom.
This was all related to my “grading” the initial hire of Woodson as a C-. After the entire staff was put together I upgraded that to a B. Saying something along the lines that As would have been Stevens, Donovan, Beard…all the whole acknowledging that they weren’t ever realistic. So I guess an A wasn’t possible on my scale??
So at that point the conversation turned to what I think those unrealistic hires would have done versus what Woodson has done. Just because they weren’t gonna happen doesn’t mean we can’t think about what they would have done if they had come to IU, for some reason. There are far less pertinent conversations that happen on this board regularly, than that.
Both Donovan and Stevens likely would have brought in a better haul than Beard did at Texas. And he absolutely cleaned up in the transfer market.
Woody has done great though. And I’m excited to see how it all pans out. Hope Clowney adds to the momentum here soon as well!
Franklin was/is a solid all around B10 level guard. I’d love to still have him.
Hunter is better than Kopp going to the basket, and scoring inside with his back to the basket. Kopp is a better overall outside shooter. I like Hunters overall skill set more. But also like Kopp. Neither were ranked in any of the transfer rankings I saw.
X was ranked 18 in that one service. 37 in another that I saw. 50s in another. He’s really good. Again though, Texas has 3 transfers ranked higher than him. Kentucky has 2 or 3. Im glad we got X. He’ll make us better.
Hunter was already here. And he’s great, I agree. His presence made the Fife hire even better. We’ve had talent in Bloomington lately. We haven’t had coaches that have turned that talent into enough wins. That includes Hunter. Fife should help with that. Obviously Woodson too mainly.
On that note. One of the most impressive things to me with Woodson, so far, is he isn’t too proud or threatened to surround himself with guys that have had success and experience in areas he hasn’t yet. That’s a sign of a great leader.
I also bet he’s comfortable enough in his own abilities that he wouldn’t freak out if people talked about what Stevens or Donovan would do at IU. He’d probably say something like…”yeah they’d crush it here.” Again, great leaders don’t worry about things like that.
Franklin is solid, but I will take Bates all day every day. We wouldn’t have Bates if Franklin was still here.
Shooting was the biggest thing missing from this team, and Kopp is the superior shooter. Additionally, Hunter really struggles on defense. Kopp, while not a great defender, is better suited to guard the 3 than Hunter.
Why do you assume we would have landed a transfer class like Texas with Donovan or Stevens? Texas has two players returning that got minutes on their team last year. They had way more PT to pitch than we did. Woody and staff got great guys that are going to help us win this year.
You say “Hunter was already here” like it was no big deal that Woody re-recruited him to be on the staff. Hunter was being pursued by other big time programs, but Woody was able to talk him into staying (and it’s paid off). Fife has yet to land a recruit (although he will be fine in that department). Hunter is our most valuable assistant, and his salary next year (whether at IU or another big time program) will reflect that.
You could have simply said, “I was wrong, Woody was a fantastic hire, and I’m excited to see what he continues to build here”.
I beg to differ about recruiting credit going so noticeably to Coach Hunter. Coach Rosemond has brought in his share. Gotta believe on the D end of the court the duo of Woodson and Fife will soon be acknowledged for their stout coaching.
Agree that Ya is doing well too. Kaleb Banks, Newton, and potentially Clowney on Monday.
No offense, but I do not agree with anything you say.
Franklin < Stewart or Johnson or Bates
Brunk < Duncomb or Durr
Hunter < Kopp
Donovan or Stevens, We will never know, but we have Woody and IU looks in good hands.
None of them have played together, and none of them have played for IU, yet you know each of them is “better” than the player to their left. Interesting “analysis”.
Interesting analysis from a PUke fan. It is hard to give you any credibility for IU comments since you are so biased.
I was always high on Franklin so your comparison will be awesome if it plays out that way.
Any player coming in will make a decision based on the coaching staff. Than said, both kenya ands Rosemond are excellent recruiters.
