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Not surprised at the decline of the program

Mas-sa-suta

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Oct 23, 2003
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..but I didn't think it would happen this quickly. What a shame to squander what it took so long to build.
 
..but I didn't think it would happen this quickly. What a shame to squander what it took so long to build.
Disagree mostly
It is tough to change coaches in any college sport with respect to recruiting and even more so in baseball. Coach Smith's '13 class was slim and two guys Brent Gibbs and CJ Eldred who have ended up successful are elsewhere. Eldred, son of Cal, and an Iowa legacy is currently the Hawkeyes Friday night starter. The '14 class, which should have benefitted from the big year was diminished with the coaching change and lost three potential contributors in Josh Ockimey big time hitting 1B prospect, Hunter Hart Pitcher, Matt Lloyd SS, and Larry Crisler made it to campus, redshirted but never played, perhaps academic casualty.

Long story short, recruiting has suffered. Next year's class looks good, but in baseball especially you don't know how many of the spring signees will make it to the fall. The recruiting system does not favor 4 year colleges. Kids who start at a 4 year school are not eligible to sign with the pros for 3 years I believe, but kids can sign right out of high school or any time out of Junior College.

Having said all that this team besides having an unbalanced roster has not displayed sound fundamentals, and a lot of that falls on the coaches. There needs to some steadying this year, & hope for few defections especially at the top of the class this fall. If next year's class doesn't keep the top line pitching the program will face an uphill battle and the seat may get warm for the skipper.
 
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Yes. I have been surprised by the mental errors. The guys playing are mostly young but I would think the coaches are also much to blame. In baseball youth is not much excuse for sloppy play. When they hired Lemonis I thought it was a good hire but now I'm wondering. We'll see if they can improve as the year progresses but losing the first two at Rutgers is not a good sign.
 
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Oh my Lord. We're what, 12-12? It's been...since last year since we made the tournament.

The team hasn't played very well, but come on.

Is the expectation now to make a tournament run every year? Cause we aren't always gonna have Kyle Schwarber on the team. I don't think we're ever going to be a powerhouse. I mean, Smith's last year ended with a quick flame out just like Lemonis' first year last season.
 
..but I didn't think it would happen this quickly. What a shame to squander what it took so long to build.

yep. Glass had the chance, with Smith, to establish the premier midwest baseball program.

completely blew it
 
yep. Glass had the chance, with Smith, to establish the premier midwest baseball program.

completely blew it

No offense, despite what some clowns (yes, there were actually people who claimed Smith would never leave Bloomington, loved the area, the school, built the program, kid in HS etc) here said at the time, Smith was never turning down a program like ASU. He took less $$ to go there. Would you expect Archie Miller to stay at Dayton forever or to turn down a program like Indiana or Louisville? That's basically the equivalent as ASU is baseball royalty (even higher than Indiana or Louisville on the basketball totem pole) with 5 national titles and 5 more runnerup finishes. They've been nationally ranked at some point in every season in school history. 4 out of every 10 seasons finishing in the top 5. Despite several chances they are on a long title draught.

Whether Glass made the right hire, no clue, but Lemonis was very well thought of and obviously "local" which should have been huge for recruiting.
 
No offense, despite what some clowns (yes, there were actually people who claimed Smith would never leave Bloomington, loved the area, the school, built the program, kid in HS etc) here said at the time, Smith was never turning down a program like ASU. He took less $$ to go there. Would you expect Archie Miller to stay at Dayton forever or to turn down a program like Indiana or Louisville? That's basically the equivalent as ASU is baseball royalty (even higher than Indiana or Louisville on the basketball totem pole) with 5 national titles and 5 more runnerup finishes. They've been nationally ranked at some point in every season in school history. 4 out of every 10 seasons finishing in the top 5. Despite several chances they are on a long title draught.

Whether Glass made the right hire, no clue, but Lemonis was very well thought of and obviously "local" which should have been huge for recruiting.
This year so far, the Royalty you describe is 14-9, and 1-5 in The Pac 12.
The drought may continue for a while.
 
This year so far, the Royalty you describe is 14-9, and 1-5 in The Pac 12.
The drought may continue for a while.

Actually, they are 16-10 and 3-6 in the PAC 12 but who is counting. Their young team got swept out in Corvallis to open conference play. They certainly really need to improve as PAC 12 plays two additional conference series over the Big Ten (and the Big Ten regularly has conference games canceled due to weather).
 
Oh my Lord. We're what, 12-12? It's been...since last year since we made the tournament.

The team hasn't played very well, but come on.

Is the expectation now to make a tournament run every year? Cause we aren't always gonna have Kyle Schwarber on the team. I don't think we're ever going to be a powerhouse. I mean, Smith's last year ended with a quick flame out just like Lemonis' first year last season.
It is not the losing it's the attitude of the team. And yes, I expect the tournament every year. No reason for low expectations. Your statement makes you sound like a loser which I doubt you are. The flameout you refer to happened in the NCAA Tournament on a miracle by Stanford. So it was a great season still. Attitude, lack of hustle, and lack of fundamentals are killing this team. I actually go to the games, all of them and I see what is happening. It's awful. Even in the win against ISU, with the two run homer, our CF was taken out of the game for not running it out on a pop up that was dropped. The CF thought it would be caught. This kid has run everything out for the whole time he has been here. The attitude is starting to get to the whole team.

Recruiting--go to the JC ranks. ISU had most of their roster from the JC ranks. We don't have to do that but getting 3 or 4 a year would help a lot.
 
yep. Glass had the chance, with Smith, to establish the premier midwest baseball program.

completely blew it

You continue to show your ignorance. Skip had chances to leave for Ohio State and Georgia, and turned those schools down because of Glass's commitment to baseball. Bart Kaufman field wasn't a happy accident, neither was Skip being the highest paid B10 coach at the time. Skip was not leaving IU unless a top 10 job came calling, and he leveraged other offers to build what is here today. I don't know why I even have to point this out to you other than to further illuminate that you're a moron.
 
Disagree mostly
It is tough to change coaches in any college sport with respect to recruiting and even more so in baseball. Coach Smith's '13 class was slim and two guys Brent Gibbs and CJ Eldred who have ended up successful are elsewhere. Eldred, son of Cal, and an Iowa legacy is currently the Hawkeyes Friday night starter. The '14 class, which should have benefitted from the big year was diminished with the coaching change and lost three potential contributors in Josh Ockimey big time hitting 1B prospect, Hunter Hart Pitcher, Matt Lloyd SS, and Larry Crisler made it to campus, redshirted but never played, perhaps academic casualty.

Long story short, recruiting has suffered. Next year's class looks good, but in baseball especially you don't know how many of the spring signees will make it to the fall. The recruiting system does not favor 4 year colleges. Kids who start at a 4 year school are not eligible to sign with the pros for 3 years I believe, but kids can sign right out of high school or any time out of Junior College.

Having said all that this team besides having an unbalanced roster has not displayed sound fundamentals, and a lot of that falls on the coaches. There needs to some steadying this year, & hope for few defections especially at the top of the class this fall. If next year's class doesn't keep the top line pitching the program will face an uphill battle and the seat may get warm for the skipper.

Please don't speculate that Crisler was an "academic casualty", he was a 21st Century scholarship kid. He's a good kid too, he wanted to be closer to home.
 
You are absolutely correct, it was wrong to say it even if it were true and from folks I know he was a good student in HS. The comment did nothing to add to my main point that part of this year's challenge is attributable to kids lost from prior classes. He was drafted by the Braves out of HS and seemed potentially a bat that could contribute.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Edit added info: Oops should have googled first: Larry is playing now at Snead State AL.
 
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You are absolutely correct, it was wrong to say it even if it were true and from folks I know he was a good student in HS. The comment did nothing to add to my main point that part of this year's challenge is attributable to kids lost from prior classes. He was drafted by the Braves out of HS and seemed potentially a bat that could contribute.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Edit added info: Oops should have googled first: Larry is playing now at Snead State AL.

I appreciate your modesty, and I believe he has family in that area even though he's from Gary. I think most forget that most of these kids don't recieve full scholarships and are STUDENT athletes. The attrition happens with coaching changes, and Lemonis is not even 2 seasons through here at IU. It takes time to build your program as a coach.

If you look at what Sowers is doing this year vs last, you see the improvement. Kids have to grow, and this young team full of freshman and sophomores in key roles are gaining experience about how to play at his level. Orbit thinks glass missed a chance to be the premier program in the Midwest. News flash, glass hired the top assistant from the premier program in the Midwest in UL. It took skip 8 years to build what's here at IU. Not only that, we got one of the best recruiters of Indiana and the Chicagoland area. It takes time.
 
Actually, they are 16-10 and 3-6 in the PAC 12 but who is counting. Their young team got swept out in Corvallis to open conference play. They certainly really need to improve as PAC 12 plays two additional conference series over the Big Ten (and the Big Ten regularly has conference games canceled due to weather).
Well, he better really pick it up because the guy before him go canned after going 33-24/19-11 (for 3rd place). I thought at the time he went, it would be tough compared to IU. His choice, though, and even if he gets fired in a few years, he will have a ton of cash in his pocket.
 
IU should absolutely go to the NCAA every year. It should be a disappointment when we don't. We are the furthest south in the Big Ten conference - that and our investment in the program (stadium, etc), should lead to that expectation. Granted, we won't make it every year.....certainly this year appears that way, barring some huge turnaround....but we will get back there. I have faith in Lemonis and Glass.
 
Just a few thoughts:
  • I am glad a certain number of you weren't in charge of IU when Skip got the job as his first few years were rough as well.
    • 2006: 22-34
    • 2007: 19-35
    • 2008: 31-30
    • 2009: 32-27 (made the NCAA for the first time since 1996)
    • 2010: 28-27
    • 2011: 30-25
    • 2012: 32-28
    • 2013 and 2014 were the fun years
  • It takes time to get your players - no matter what school you are at.
  • I have visited Skip a few times while he's been at ASU and even with the history of ASU he knew he needed to upgrade the talent.
  • IU had no chance of keeping Skip when he left for ASU. It's as if Crean got offered the job at UK or Duke - he's taking it.
  • As for Lemonis, see the above arguments with regard to Skip. We need to give him time to develop "his" team and get "his" players on campus. We have good recruiting classes lined up and good pub in the bigs with Scwharber, Phegley and a variety of others close to making the Show.
 
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Just a few thoughts:
  • IU had no chance of keeping Skip when he left for ASU. It's as if Crean got offered the job at UK or Duke - he's taking it.
That's a horrible comparison. Not even close. An IU baseball program that has had no success before a few years ago, to a basketball program with 5 national championships, and not only making the NCAA a requirement, but it's a poor season if they do not have a high seed and don't make the sweet sixteen. Smith leaving IU for AZ State is more like Miller leaving Xavier for Arizona in basketball.
 
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IU should absolutely go to the NCAA every year. It should be a disappointment when we don't. We are the furthest south in the Big Ten conference - that and our investment in the program (stadium, etc), should lead to that expectation. Granted, we won't make it every year.....certainly this year appears that way, barring some huge turnaround....but we will get back there. I have faith in Lemonis and Glass.
I don't really disagree. It's just hard for me to freak out over our record when we've been to the tournament 5 times. Ever.
 
I appreciate your modesty, and I believe he has family in that area even though he's from Gary. I think most forget that most of these kids don't recieve full scholarships and are STUDENT athletes. The attrition happens with coaching changes, and Lemonis is not even 2 seasons through here at IU. It takes time to build your program as a coach.

If you look at what Sowers is doing this year vs last, you see the improvement. Kids have to grow, and this young team full of freshman and sophomores in key roles are gaining experience about how to play at his level. Orbit thinks glass missed a chance to be the premier program in the Midwest. News flash, glass hired the top assistant from the premier program in the Midwest in UL. It took skip 8 years to build what's here at IU. Not only that, we got one of the best recruiters of Indiana and the Chicagoland area. It takes time.
Orbit trolls every board here. Just put him on ignore. He's now going to respond to this by saying he's "in my head."
 
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greetings Great Massasuta...a lot has changed since we last spoke....

anyway... I am sad to see the baseball team struggle...
 
greetings Great Massasuta...a lot has changed since we last spoke....

anyway... I am sad to see the baseball team struggle...
Hello Bugs...yes, a lot of things have changed and a lot of good people's lives have been turned upside down.
 
I thought the "great Massasuta" got so butchered around here a year or so ago that he called us all names and slinked off in a huff.

Sad to see him back, and totally not surprised he hasn't changed his stripes.
 
I thought the "great Massasuta" got so butchered around here a year or so ago that he called us all names and slinked off in a huff.

Sad to see him back, and totally not surprised he hasn't changed his stripes.
No, you didn't think that. If so, you have a cognitive issue of some sort.
A poster vented about Tracy Smith, apparently called "Skip" by the true fans, leaving for greener pastures and leaving IU after they had made quite an infrastructure investment in 'his' program. I agreed with him.
The invective started immediately from the 'true fans', and the thread devolved into one with reason on one side, and a few 'true fans' emulating pre-menstrual teenagers in their verbal chicken-fighting, attacking me, when I did not make the initial post.
Sound familiar?
 
No, you didn't think that. If so, you have a cognitive issue of some sort.
A poster vented about Tracy Smith, apparently called "Skip" by the true fans, leaving for greener pastures and leaving IU after they had made quite an infrastructure investment in 'his' program. I agreed with him.
The invective started immediately from the 'true fans', and the thread devolved into one with reason on one side, and a few 'true fans' emulating pre-menstrual teenagers in their verbal chicken-fighting, attacking me, when I did not make the initial post.
Sound familiar?

You really aren't much of a baseball fan, right? Not speaking specifically about Indiana but any baseball correct?
 
MSU victory bump...

17zmtl.jpg
 
MSU victory bump...

17zmtl.jpg

Nice win, team has been improving for sure and all but MSU is only #62 in the RPI. Clearly a good win but Indiana is #128 in the RPI and sans top 50 win to-date. 22-14 against the #194th rated schedule.

Absolutely need to finish strong against the likes of Notre Dame, UK, Louisville and Minnesota to prove how far they've come this season. That's six top 50 games coming up.
 
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Nice win, team has been improving for sure and all but MSU is only #62 in the RPI. Clearly a good win but Indiana is #128 in the RPI and sans top 50 win to-date. 22-14 against the #194th rated schedule.

Absolutely need to finish strong against the likes of Notre Dame, UK, Louisville and Minnesota to prove how far they've come this season. That's six top 50 games coming up.
Oh absolutely. This is hardly a "great team" and they have work to do. But this was a completely ridiculous thread to start.
 
Oh absolutely. This is hardly a "great team" and they have work to do. But this was a completely ridiculous thread to start.
No, it was not 'totally ridiculous'
Are you a 13 year old girl?
My neighbor's daughter uses the same term.

I am pleased that the team's focus and attention to detail seems markedly improved from a few short weeks ago.
 
No, it was not 'totally ridiculous'
Are you a 13 year old girl?
My neighbor's daughter uses the same term.

I am pleased that the team's focus and attention to detail seems markedly improved from a few short weeks ago.
I didn't even say that.

But yes, it was completely ridiculous.
 
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