Noah Locke; Braden Smith

mushroomgod_1

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Apr 9, 2012
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Couple of mentions on the Daily Hoosier of note.

One is a story to the effect that IU is trying to recruit Noah Locke, with Hunter being the lead recruiter. I know there's been talk of that on here, but I hadn't seen anything in writing.

I'm not all that sure about this guy.....Only averaging a little over 10 ppg in this 3rd year there. Shot 40% on 3s & 78% on FTs last year, but how about this stat: 14 assists in 26 games. And apparently not much of a defender. Also some ?s about how much of a team guy he is (??).

The other bit of info on there of interest is a story & '21 highlights for Braden Smith. There are smart guys on HSN that love this guy, and I'm with them. 22.6 pts, 6.2 assists, 5.4 rebs, 2.7 steals playing 4A against a 5A level schedule. Story says we've kept in contact with him, and I really hope we offer.
 
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TrojanFan004

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Apr 23, 2020
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Couple of mentions on the Daily Hoosier of note.

One is a story to the effect that IU is trying to recruit Noah Locke, with Hunter being the lead recruiter. I know there's been talk of that on here, but I hadn't seen anything in writing.

I'm not all that sure about this guy.....Only averaging a little over 10 ppg in this 3rd year there. Shot 40% on 3s & 78% on FTs last year, but how about this stat: 14 assists in 26 games. Any apparently not much of a defender. Also some ?s about how much of a team guy he is (??).

The other bit of info on there of interest is a story & '21 highlights for Braden Smith. There are smart guys on HSN that love this guy, and I'm with them. 22.6 pts, 6.2 assists, 5.4 rebs, 2.7 steals playing 4A against a 5A level schedule. Story says we've kept in contact with him, and I really hope we offer.
I really hope we get Locke. Hard pass on Smith. Far too small and unathletic.
 
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MikeHoncho69

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Braden Smith's only three offers are from Montana, Toledo and Appalachian State.

The kid is a gamer, and I hope he has a tremendous college career. He's not playing in the Big Ten, though.

As for Locke, I would LOVE to see Woodson and the staff bring him in. In three seasons at Florida, he shot 40% from three (217/538). He's also 6'3", so that would give IU some size at the two-guard spot.
 
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mattn7

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BLOOM,
I respect your opinion on the athletes that you have said are IU worthy or not. What do you think of Braden Smith? Is he good enough for IU? I have my opinion below but I am not someone who evaulares talent like you do. Please let me know if this kid can play at IU? Or do you feel he is more (Mid-Major) Indiana State, Montana level?

I have seen IU pass on a guy like this and then he will come back to haunt us. He is 6'1" and shoots 45.6% from 3. We need shooters and this is a guy that can shoot. I have seen him play and his court savvy males up for his lack of athleticism. This is why maybe we don't have those kind of Shooters at IU. It seems that IU needs this type but always seem to find reasons that he shouldn't be recruited. Braden Smith is a gamer he is a winner he loves IU he can shoot lights out ( no one on roster now like that) and he would bleed cream and crimson. I. All for adding this kid either by preferred Walk-on or even a scholarship. This may be why Indiana is not where we used to be because we feel we are to good for a kid like this. Maybe I am wrong but I feel he would be an asset and at least a spot up shooter we don't have now on our roster.
 
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mushroomgod_1

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BLOOM,
I respect your opinion on the athletes that you have said are IU worthy or not. What do you think of Braden Smith? Is he good enough for IU? I have my opinion below but I am not someone who evaulares talent like you do. Please let me know if this kid can play at IU? Or do you feel he is more (Mid-Major) Indiana State, Montana level?

I have seen IU pass on a guy like this and then he will come back to haunt us. He is 6'1" and shoots 45.6% from 3. We need shooters and this is a guy that can shoot. I have seen him play and his court savvy males up for his lack of athleticism. This is why maybe we don't have those kind of Shooters at IU. It seems that IU needs this type but always seem to find reasons that he shouldn't be recruited. Braden Smith is a gamer he is a winner he loves IU he can shoot lights out ( no one on roster now like that) and he would bleed cream and crimson. I. All for adding this kid either by preferred Walk-on or even a scholarship. This may be why Indiana is not where we used to be because we feel we are to good for a kid like this. Maybe I am wrong but I feel he would be an asset and at least a spot up shooter we don't have now on our roster.

Not Bloom, but....he's also a tremendous foul shooter....I think he was 83% this year, but he's been closer to 90% in previous years. That, plus his court vision and passing skills, would make him a nice asset in closing out games.

He's a guy who would bust his ass in practice and compete every minute he's on the floor.

People should watch his highlights from this year on the Daily Hoosier.
 
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outside shooter

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Wouldn't Braden Smith be in the poor-man's Luke Brown category? Luke was considered mid-major talent and is committed to Stetson. I don't see what would elevate Braden Smith above him.
 

mushroomgod_1

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Wouldn't Braden Smith be in the poor-man's Luke Brown category? Luke was considered mid-major talent and is committed to Stetson. I don't see what would elevate Braden Smith above him.
The only things they have in common are that they are little white guys that can shoot.

Smith's much quicker & athletic, is a much better passer, has a much better handle, and is stronger. And....has played and excelled against much better opposition. Watch Smith's highlight tape on the DH and compare it to Brown's tapes.
 

Champs1976

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May 18, 2020
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Couple of mentions on the Daily Hoosier of note.

One is a story to the effect that IU is trying to recruit Noah Locke, with Hunter being the lead recruiter. I know there's been talk of that on here, but I hadn't seen anything in writing.

I'm not all that sure about this guy.....Only averaging a little over 10 ppg in this 3rd year there. Shot 40% on 3s & 78% on FTs last year, but how about this stat: 14 assists in 26 games. And apparently not much of a defender. Also some ?s about how much of a team guy he is (??).

The other bit of info on there of interest is a story & '21 highlights for Braden Smith. There are smart guys on HSN that love this guy, and I'm with them. 22.6 pts, 6.2 assists, 5.4 rebs, 2.7 steals playing 4A against a 5A level schedule. Story says we've kept in contact with him, and I really hope we offer.
Did he grow two or three inches?
 

T.M.P.

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Jul 2, 2014
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Couple of mentions on the Daily Hoosier of note.

One is a story to the effect that IU is trying to recruit Noah Locke, with Hunter being the lead recruiter. I know there's been talk of that on here, but I hadn't seen anything in writing.

I'm not all that sure about this guy.....Only averaging a little over 10 ppg in this 3rd year there. Shot 40% on 3s & 78% on FTs last year, but how about this stat: 14 assists in 26 games. And apparently not much of a defender. Also some ?s about how much of a team guy he is (??).

The other bit of info on there of interest is a story & '21 highlights for Braden Smith. There are smart guys on HSN that love this guy, and I'm with them. 22.6 pts, 6.2 assists, 5.4 rebs, 2.7 steals playing 4A against a 5A level schedule. Story says we've kept in contact with him, and I really hope we offer.
Locke is a catch and shoot and a damn good one.
 
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Champs1976

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Braden Smith is an instant offer to me. Jordan Hulls with more size and athleticism.
Look at his offers, not one power 5 offer. They can't all be wrong. Lots of HS players put up big numbers and can't do it when moving up against much harder and more consistent competition. Watch the highlights again and start thinking about a guy equally as quick with four or more inches on him and better leaping ability - does it translate? I foresee a lot of his shots coming back in his face. I too want to see the second coming of Hulls or Alford or Yogi, but I don't think Braden is it.
 
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gonnerm

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Look at his offers, not one power 5 offer. They can't all be wrong. Lots of HS players put up big numbers and can't do it when moving up against much harder and more consistent competition. Watch the highlights again and start thinking about a guy equally as quick with four or more inches on him and better leaping ability - does it translate? I foresee a lot of his shots coming back in his face. I too want to see the second coming of Hulls or Alford or Yogi, but I don't think Braden is it.
Understand what you're saying. I think the P5 offers are going to come. If he ends up at Purdue, we're going to be upset for 4 years.
 
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Coach Geez

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Look at his offers, not one power 5 offer. They can't all be wrong. Lots of HS players put up big numbers and can't do it when moving up against much harder and more consistent competition. Watch the highlights again and start thinking about a guy equally as quick with four or more inches on him and better leaping ability - does it translate? I foresee a lot of his shots coming back in his face. I too want to see the second coming of Hulls or Alford or Yogi, but I don't think Braden is it.
I think you'll find the lack of an AAU season last summer really hurt guys like Braden Smith, as it did someone like Brian Waddell. Don't be surprised when his offer sheet grows after AAU ball is resumed this coming summer.
 
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BHAII

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I think you'll find the lack of an AAU season last summer really hurt guys like Braden Smith, as it did someone like Brian Waddell. Don't be surprised when his offer sheet grows after AAU ball is resumed this coming summer.
PG spot is getting crowded. I’d love Smith as a preferred walk-on possibly playing his way to a scholly after RP graduates
 

Paterfamilias

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Locke is a catch and shoot and a damn good one.
He is a Blackmon level shooter, but Locke's best comparison is Zeisloft... I think. Locke for his career has only made 20 buckets at the rim, whereas Blackmon made 173 at the rim in a couple hundred less minutes. Ziesloft was a tiny bit better with rebounding and assists, but neither one moves the needle. Locke is about average as a thief, while Z was well below average.

Just to finish it off, Blackmon was a good deal above Locke and Nick in the auxiliary stats.

I say all of this because most people think of Blackmon as a great catch and shoot guy and nothing more, but Blackmon was a far and away more productive player than the true catch and shoot specialists like Locke.

Locke is the definition of one dimensional and I'm not sure these types are getting minutes on top teams anymore. I guess David Singleton for UCLA is very similar and he came up big vs Bama, then only played 5 minutes vs Michigan.
 
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asindc

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Look at his offers, not one power 5 offer. They can't all be wrong. Lots of HS players put up big numbers and can't do it when moving up against much harder and more consistent competition. Watch the highlights again and start thinking about a guy equally as quick with four or more inches on him and better leaping ability - does it translate? I foresee a lot of his shots coming back in his face. I too want to see the second coming of Hulls or Alford or Yogi, but I don't think Braden is it.
Actually, ”they” can be and occasionally are. The only thing that matters is if IU thinks he can hack it.
 
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Coddingj

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Couple of mentions on the Daily Hoosier of note.

One is a story to the effect that IU is trying to recruit Noah Locke, with Hunter being the lead recruiter. I know there's been talk of that on here, but I hadn't seen anything in writing.

I'm not all that sure about this guy.....Only averaging a little over 10 ppg in this 3rd year there. Shot 40% on 3s & 78% on FTs last year, but how about this stat: 14 assists in 26 games. And apparently not much of a defender. Also some ?s about how much of a team guy he is (??).

The other bit of info on there of interest is a story & '21 highlights for Braden Smith. There are smart guys on HSN that love this guy, and I'm with them. 22.6 pts, 6.2 assists, 5.4 rebs, 2.7 steals playing 4A against a 5A level schedule. Story says we've kept in contact with him, and I really hope we offer.
 

T.M.P.

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He is a Blackmon level shooter, but Locke's best comparison is Zeisloft... I think. Locke for his career has only made 20 buckets at the rim, whereas Blackmon made 173 at the rim in a couple hundred less minutes. Ziesloft was a tiny bit better with rebounding and assists, but neither one moves the needle. Locke is about average as a thief, while Z was well below average.

Just to finish it off, Blackmon was a good deal above Locke and Nick in the auxiliary stats.

I say all of this because most people think of Blackmon as a great catch and shoot guy and nothing more, but Blackmon was a far and away more productive player than the true catch and shoot specialists like Locke.

Locke is the definition of one dimensional and I'm not sure these types are getting minutes on top teams anymore. I guess David Singleton for UCLA is very similar and he came up big vs Bama, then only played 5 minutes vs Michigan.
check this out ... after having two coaches that ignored the numbers ... this is music to my ears.

I laugh at people that think Crean used analytics because he had a piece of paper, or that Miller did because he read kenpom. Neither did ...

but things are going to change. No more dumb lineups, no more 10 man rotations. Corner threes, limited post ups, more rolls, more drive and kick, more shooting threes off offense boards. Smaller lineups, more situational zone.. welcome to the 21st century IU basketball.

 

rikki-tikka-tava

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check this out ... after having two coaches that ignored the numbers ... this is music to my ears.

I laugh at people that think Crean used analytics because he had a piece of paper, or that Miller did because he read kenpom. Neither did ...

but things are going to change. No more dumb lineups, no more 10 man rotations. Corner threes, limited post ups, more rolls, more drive and kick, more shooting threes off offense boards. Smaller lineups, more situational zone.. welcome to the 21st century IU basketball.

Uncharacteristically expressive you are - sort of has its own musical quality. May not know much, but If it's positive enough to get you excited, then it must be a really good thing.

If you haven't watched the clips that someone posted elsewhere of Woodson's sideline expressions you might take a look - nothing definitive there, but there's something about him...
 

Pryght

Sophomore
Nov 24, 2005
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Couple of mentions on the Daily Hoosier of note.

One is a story to the effect that IU is trying to recruit Noah Locke, with Hunter being the lead recruiter. I know there's been talk of that on here, but I hadn't seen anything in writing.

I'm not all that sure about this guy.....Only averaging a little over 10 ppg in this 3rd year there. Shot 40% on 3s & 78% on FTs last year, but how about this stat: 14 assists in 26 games. And apparently not much of a defender. Also some ?s about how much of a team guy he is (??).

The other bit of info on there of interest is a story & '21 highlights for Braden Smith. There are smart guys on HSN that love this guy, and I'm with them. 22.6 pts, 6.2 assists, 5.4 rebs, 2.7 steals playing 4A against a 5A level schedule. Story says we've kept in contact with him, and I really hope we offer.
 
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Paterfamilias

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check this out ... after having two coaches that ignored the numbers ... this is music to my ears.

I laugh at people that think Crean used analytics because he had a piece of paper, or that Miller did because he read kenpom. Neither did ...

but things are going to change. No more dumb lineups, no more 10 man rotations. Corner threes, limited post ups, more rolls, more drive and kick, more shooting threes off offense boards. Smaller lineups, more situational zone.. welcome to the 21st century IU basketball.

Absolutely! I do think that Miller and Crean tried to use analytics, but the result was Mathketball and not in a good way. If you look at IU's midrange usage with Crean's good teams, you'll see the 2012 team was approx 180th in the nation (pretty much in the middle), then Crean got his first glimpse of analytics and the 2013 team was approx 305th. Finally, he was all in with the 2016 team and they were somewhere in the 340's... damn near Alabama under Oats territory.

It's my opinion that running into Beoheim the very year he learned a little math is what got that team beat. Crean became a slave to the analytics as he understood them. As you've pointed out to me before, there is a give and take involved with every decision you make. If you ignore half the equation your worse off than before you knew the analytic side to begin with.

Anyway, with a long time NBA guy, like Woodson, proper use of analytics is likely second nature at this point. He probably doesn't have to fight the irresistible urge to re-invent the wheel like I think Crean did. It will be very interesting to see what they play like next year. I love the fact that IU/Woodson seems to be in Win Now mode!

It may not work out either, but when you hire 3 coaches from the candidate list on the same staff you can't be faulted for a lack of trying.

I've hated every previous hire, but I quickly got on-board the Archie train because of his no nonsense approach coupled with the fact that every guru gushed about him. I eventually started thinking that Crean might even get a banner even though he seemed to do something over the top genius-stupid every few games.

This time my only concern was longevity. I had been hoping to see what IU would look like with Woodson/Wittman/Alford for so long, and now one of them finally gets a shot as the oldest HC hire at a Power 6 basketball conference for as far back as I was willing to dig... and I'm a patient digger. Bringing Fife on-board is a real game changer though.... anyway, I should shut up now! We don't really know anything yet :) more than Crean though
 
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T.M.P.

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I do think that Miller and Crean tried to use analytics,

Crean just used the gimmick of the day. The gimmick may have been the results of someone else's analytics but they didn't have anyone crunching numbers tracking everything.
 
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ams66

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Anyway, with a long time NBA guy, like Woodson, proper use of analytics is likely second nature at this point.
From the IndianaHQ article linked in the tweet:

“Analytics is what you make of it,” he [Woodson] said. “At the end of the day, you’ve still got to coach and put talent on the floor. Those players have got to be able to work within the system in terms of making things happen when it comes to winning and losing.”
 

MTBRider

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Look at his offers, not one power 5 offer. They can't all be wrong. Lots of HS players put up big numbers and can't do it when moving up against much harder and more consistent competition. Watch the highlights again and start thinking about a guy equally as quick with four or more inches on him and better leaping ability - does it translate? I foresee a lot of his shots coming back in his face. I too want to see the second coming of Hulls or Alford or Yogi, but I don't think Braden is it.
As others have mentioned, a lot of this is on the AAU games not being seen by coaches. If AAU had been normal last year, I'm confident there would be some P5 offers at this point. If you remember, Hulls was up in the air and had very few big offers until he blew up in a couple of games his last year of AAU.

I've watched the kid several times (mostly on the IHSAA feed) and talked to several parents who've got kids that have played against him....the kid is a stud. This isn't a Luke Brown situation, this kid is playing against some of the top talent in the state and putting up pretty gaudy numbers all while facilitating his teammates as well.

For the people saying we're getting crowded at the PG position, just remember the kid is 2 years away from being on campus...X will be senior and KL will be a Junior when he arrives. Braden will do just fine learning from them and providing a much needed shooting lift when needed. I'm not saying he's a "must get", but I have this sneaky feeling we'll be damned pissed if we pass on this kid.
 

kkott

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Oct 26, 2001
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check this out ... after having two coaches that ignored the numbers ... this is music to my ears.

I laugh at people that think Crean used analytics because he had a piece of paper, or that Miller did because he read kenpom. Neither did ...

but things are going to change. No more dumb lineups, no more 10 man rotations. Corner threes, limited post ups, more rolls, more drive and kick, more shooting threes off offense boards. Smaller lineups, more situational zone.. welcome to the 21st century IU basketball.

I like Woodson's comments. To me analytics are basically indicators, not necessarily mandates/directives. For instance, I don't have to be an analytics guru to know the first stat he discusses, is a red herring. Last year's squad was such a poor shooting team, imo, the last thing in the world they needed to be doing was hoisting and hunting more 3's. The focus with that team should have been on taking good 3s: in rhythym and stepping in to them, not on the # of 3s. Had we done that and not had guys like KL and JH hunting 3s, our percentage for both 3pt and overall FG%, along with scoring, would have been better, imo. Now, the relative lack of corner 3s is interesting as is his comment about AD shooting better from 1 side than the other. Those might have lifted our overall 3pt shooting %, but I think both had relatively few instances so not definitive, but definitely something to monitor, be aware of and possibly try and work in to the approach.

I know I heard an Assembly Call podcast after a couple decent 3 pt shooting performances where the speaker said we needed to be shooting more 3s and shortly thereafter we did and it resulted in horrific shooting % and losses. That team needed to be focused on taking good shots, regardless of 3s or 2s.
 

T.M.P.

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I know I heard an Assembly Call podcast after a couple decent 3 pt shooting performances where the speaker said we needed to be shooting more 3s and shortly thereafter we did and it resulted in horrific shooting % and losses. That team needed to be focused on taking good shots, regardless of 3s or 2s.
That's just reading stats ... analytics breakdown almost everything into percentages individual, team, opponents, plays, defense sets. Like what an opposing player does off the high pick and that determines how to guard them. Do they shoot so poorly off the bounce that you can go under, are they so quick coming off the pick that you want to switch or hedge, force right or left, all of it is tracked and it dictates how to guard them.
 
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ciggar_man

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The only things they have in common are that they are little white guys that can shoot.

Smith's much quicker & athletic, is a much better passer, has a much better handle, and is stronger. And....has played and excelled against much better opposition. Watch Smith's highlight tape on the DH and compare it to Brown's tapes.
No way he a better passer or 3pt shooter, Brown had 33 pts against New Albany and 34 pts against FW Blackhawks also avg 90 percent from ft line for his career! Brown hit a lot of NBA 3s myself if you offered Smith why not Brown? I known he to little not quick enough time will tell, Oh! by the way he scored 3011 pts not to bad for a little white guy! lol
 

T.M.P.

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No way he a better passer or 3pt shooter, Brown had 33 pts against New Albany and 34 pts against FW Blackhawks also avg 90 percent from ft line for his career! Brown hit a lot of NBA 3s myself if you offered Smith why not Brown? I known he to little not quick enough time will tell, Oh! by the way he scored 3011 pts not to bad for a little white guy! lol
Yabbut the guys he guarded scored 4211.
 

rikki-tikka-tava

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Well, so much for that.
Never a good sign when the school reporting on the exciting news that someone has signed states:

"The knocks on Locke are that he struggles to create his own shot, doesn’t do enough off the bounce, and goes through stretches where he is a subpar on-ball defender. A lack of athleticism, not a lack of effort, are at the heart of these deficiencies."

Sounds vaguely familiar...
 

T.M.P.

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If you try just a little harder you could sound completely incoherent instead of just mostly. There's this thing called 'punctuation' - only mention it because almost need a translator to figure out what you're saying.
FO
 

rikki-tikka-tava

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No way he a better passer or 3pt shooter, Brown had 33 pts against New Albany and 34 pts against FW Blackhawks also avg 90 percent from ft line for his career! Brown hit a lot of NBA 3s myself if you offered Smith why not Brown? I known he to little not quick enough time will tell, Oh! by the way he scored 3011 pts not to bad for a little white guy! lol
If you try just a little harder you could sound completely incoherent instead of just mostly. There's this thing called 'punctuation' - only mention it because almost need a translator to figure out what you're saying.
 
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Never a good sign when the school reporting on the exciting news that someone has signed states:

"The knocks on Locke are that he struggles to create his own shot, doesn’t do enough off the bounce, and goes through stretches where he is a subpar on-ball defender. A lack of athleticism, not a lack of effort, are at the heart of these deficiencies."

Sounds vaguely familiar...
I noticed that. Does ring a bell🤣
 

mushroomgod_1

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Never a good sign when the school reporting on the exciting news that someone has signed states:

"The knocks on Locke are that he struggles to create his own shot, doesn’t do enough off the bounce, and goes through stretches where he is a subpar on-ball defender. A lack of athleticism, not a lack of effort, are at the heart of these deficiencies."

Sounds vaguely familiar...

Yes....not so sure why everyone was so high on this guy. He had 17 assists in 25 games last year. Has averaged 10.6/game the last 2 years playing 29M per game. Not saying he couldn't play for us, but no where in Franklin's class as a player.