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No Tulsi, no hot moderators, someone tell me...

...why I should watch tonight.

To help save the future of democracy?

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CNN did 100% better in this debate, they were no longer trying to force a moderate vs progressive gang war.

I think the only function the debates have served is to eliminate people by not being invited. I cannot imagine many people changing their minds based on the debates.

Part of me wonders if debates matter any more. What can we discover in a debate in a post-fact world?
 
CNN did 100% better in this debate, they were no longer trying to force a moderate vs progressive gang war.

I think the only function the debates have served is to eliminate people by not being invited. I cannot imagine many people changing their minds based on the debates.

Part of me wonders if debates matter any more. What can we discover in a debate in a post-fact world?
I decided they didn’t after Hillary and Trump. She mopped the floor with him every time and he was clearly clueless on nearly every policy question he was asked. I’ve said all along I doubt that he debates this time.
 
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Part of me wonders if debates matter any more. What can we discover in a debate in a post-fact world?
I decided they didn’t after Hillary and Trump. She mopped the floor with him every time and he was clearly clueless on nearly every policy question he was asked. I’ve said all along I doubt that he debates this time.
If the debates don't matter (politically), then there's no reason for him not to participate, and his ego won't allow him to pass on the opportunity to play to the audience.

The key for his opponent will be to hold him up to scorn and ridicule, using his own words and actions. It shouldn't be hard. I'm sure Pete would annihilate him. Sanders and Warren would hurt him too. I don't know if Biden has it in him.
 
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If the debates don't matter (politically), then there's no reason for him not to participate, and his ego won't allow him to pass on the opportunity to play to the audience.

The key for his opponent will be to hold him up to scorn and ridicule, using his own words and actions. It shouldn't be hard. I'm sure Pete would annihilate him. Sanders and Warren would hurt him too. I don't know if Biden has it in him.

Scorn and ridicule won't matter to the 42-45%. We have seen that over and over again in polling and posts here.
 
Scorn and ridicule won't matter to the 42-45%. We have seen that over and over again in polling and posts here.

The scorn and ridicule runs so deep and is so pervasive that it has become absolutely meaningless. An occasional attaboy for some better or good decisions would lend more credibility to the scorn and ridicule.

Trump is the only enemy that I'm worried about. I really don't care about Iran. Iran is no threat to American democracy. Trump is, I won't support ANYTHING he does, EVER, and I won't play "us vs. them" with Iran. If you want to rally around the flag, that's your choice, but I won't until Trump and his fascism are a long gone. Meanwhile, if I have a chance to legitimately blame him for ANYTHING, I will.​
 
The scorn and ridicule runs so deep and is so pervasive that it has become absolutely meaningless. An occasional attaboy for some better or good decisions would lend more credibility to the scorn and ridicule.

Trump is the only enemy that I'm worried about. I really don't care about Iran. Iran is no threat to American democracy. Trump is, I won't support ANYTHING he does, EVER, and I won't play "us vs. them" with Iran. If you want to rally around the flag, that's your choice, but I won't until Trump and his fascism are a long gone. Meanwhile, if I have a chance to legitimately blame him for ANYTHING, I will.​

If you think it will help, you get him to show up and I will personally buy him a participation trophy and give it to him. I didn't think conservatives liked participation trophies though.

You know his Twitter stuff is crap. You know drawing on a NWS map with a sharpie is crap. You know a whole lot of what he says in his "official" capacity is a lie. Look at the evolving story on the QS airstrike. Nowhere have I complained about the strike, but shouldn't he have ONE story as to why we launched it? It really should not be that hard. But somewhere I think I congratulated him for not retaliating on the missile strike.

Go back in time and look at the threads when Trump went to converse with Kim. It was a complete reversal of decades of US positions. Trump made a big deal about getting the summit, as though Kim hadn't begged previous admins for that. And a great many Trump supporters bought into that as a huge diplomatic breakthrough. We cancelled exercises with South Korea from it, something the north wanted. Yet, we still are absolutely no closer to anything than where we were. I haven't seen very many Trump supporters admit that was wrong. So maybe he needs a participation trophy from one side, and a rebuke from the other?
 
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CNN did 100% better in this debate, they were no longer trying to force a moderate vs progressive gang war.

I think the only function the debates have served is to eliminate people by not being invited. I cannot imagine many people changing their minds based on the debates.

Part of me wonders if debates matter any more. What can we discover in a debate in a post-fact world?


Polls have barely budged from where things started out a year ago. I'd say the entire campaign hasn't much mattered.

Dem bench is so incredibly weak, that what's come out on top these last two cycles is pretty sad.
 
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Polls have barely budged from where things started out a year ago. I'd say the entire campaign hasn't much mattered.

Dem bench is so incredibly weak, that what's come out on top these last two cycles is pretty sad.
It’s Trump’s to lose at this point.
 
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Polls have barely budged from where things started out a year ago. I'd say the entire campaign hasn't much mattered.

Dem bench is so incredibly weak, that what's come out on top these last two cycles is pretty sad.

I think what has happened to the Democrats is the paradox of choice. With 30 people running, the assumption is one of them has to be perfect. The bar goes way up with more options and we are less happy about the choices rather than more happy.

I think this happened to the GOP last time, with all their candidates and none appearing as perfect, the GOP settled on the least perfect since they all sucked.
 
LOL. It's like a Linux-curious person who wails about "too many choices". They often want to be told which distro to chose rather than try a few and make a decision.

I read the book years ago, found it excellent. The author tells a story of getting a new pair of blue jeans, he hadn't bought jeans in years. He went to the store, and instead of just a choice between Levi and Wrangler, there were dozens of choices for fit, cut, etc. He tried them on for hours. He left with a pair of jeans that was marginally better than if he had only encountered the old paradigm, then felt disappointed it was only marginally better for all that time he spent.

The classic case I can think of is cable tv. I am sure we all know people who say, "all these channels and I can't find something worth watching".
 
I think what has happened to the Democrats is the paradox of choice. With 30 people running, the assumption is one of them has to be perfect. The bar goes way up with more options and we are less happy about the choices rather than more happy.

I think this happened to the GOP last time, with all their candidates and none appearing as perfect, the GOP settled on the least perfect since they all sucked.

I think it's funny that twenty finds the Democrat bench weak when I find it incredibly strong and diverse. There are so many positive options available in the group that was and is running. I'd be very happy with a lot of them.
 
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I think it's funny that twenty finds the Democrat bench weak when I find it incredibly strong and diverse. There are so many positive options available in the group that was and is running. I'd be very happy with a lot of them.
Same. Even the people who have dropped out are extremely competent and I Hope will make up a large part of the cabinet.
 
CNN did 100% better in this debate, they were no longer trying to force a moderate vs progressive gang war.

I think the only function the debates have served is to eliminate people by not being invited. I cannot imagine many people changing their minds based on the debates.

Part of me wonders if debates matter any more. What can we discover in a debate in a post-fact world?
Are you saying that the press picks the candidate? So if the press just doesn't invite someone then they are out? That is a scary proposition. But then again we have Trump. The press didn't pick him. They in fact attacked him from the get go. Yet the people voted him in.
 
Are you saying that the press picks the candidate? So if the press just doesn't invite someone then they are out? That is a scary proposition. But then again we have Trump. The press didn't pick him. They in fact attacked him from the get go. Yet the people voted him in.

I am not sure where you get that from. The DNC setup the rules (just as the RNC had done in 2016). The DNC decided to require certain milestones to qualify. Not qualifying seemed to signal one was not a serious contender and they would drop out.
 
I am not sure where you get that from. The DNC setup the rules (just as the RNC had done in 2016). The DNC decided to require certain milestones to qualify. Not qualifying seemed to signal one was not a serious contender and they would drop out.
VPM once again showing how little he understands outside the talking points he regularly regurgitates.
 
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VPM once again showing how little he understands outside the talking points he regularly regurgitates.
If you put him on ignore the IQ of the board jumps dramatically and your (or at least mine) stress level will drop. The button could changed from "Show Ignored Content" to "Show Ignorant Content".
 
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The scorn and ridicule runs so deep and is so pervasive that it has become absolutely meaningless. An occasional attaboy for some better or good decisions would lend more credibility to the scorn and ridicule.

Trump is the only enemy that I'm worried about. I really don't care about Iran. Iran is no threat to American democracy. Trump is, I won't support ANYTHING he does, EVER, and I won't play "us vs. them" with Iran. If you want to rally around the flag, that's your choice, but I won't until Trump and his fascism are a long gone. Meanwhile, if I have a chance to legitimately blame him for ANYTHING, I will.​
Hey! If you're gonna cite my wisdom, I expect royalties!
 
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Are you saying that the press picks the candidate? So if the press just doesn't invite someone then they are out? That is a scary proposition. But then again we have Trump. The press didn't pick him. They in fact attacked him from the get go. Yet the people voted him in.
Um, no. What in the world makes you think that’s what he was saying. The press was right to attack Trump and so were all of us who knew he was nothing but a two bit mobster. We are seeing now just the edge of the iceberg of what he has done. We will be hearing for the next decade about all the things that trickle out a little bit at a time about this hero of yours. He can’t buy off everyone in the world. It will be an avalanche and people like you will still be making excuses.
 
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