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NCAA Rips Kansas regarding allegations—Wow

The NCAA enforcement staff said Kansas' basketball program committed "egregious" and "severe" rules violations that "significantly undermine and threaten the NCAA Collegiate Model," and alleged that Jayhawks coach Bill Self and assistant Kurtis Townsend "embraced, welcomed and encouraged" Adidas employees and consultants to influence high-profile recruits to sign with Kansas.
 
Nothing to see here. As the former head snake at the FBI would say, "But they did not intend to do it".
 
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The NCAA enforcement staff said Kansas' basketball program committed "egregious" and "severe" rules violations that "significantly undermine and threaten the NCAA Collegiate Model," and alleged that Jayhawks coach Bill Self and assistant Kurtis Townsend "embraced, welcomed and encouraged" Adidas employees and consultants to influence high-profile recruits to sign with Kansas.

The NCAA enforcement staff said Kansas' basketball program committed "egregious" and "severe" rules violations that "significantly undermine and threaten the NCAA Collegiate Model," and alleged that Jayhawks coach Bill Self and assistant Kurtis Townsend "embraced, welcomed and encouraged" Adidas employees and consultants to influence high-profile recruits to sign with Kansas.
Take away a few scholarships and call it a day. Its kansas not much will happen.
 
The NCAA is going to have a very difficult time in court with this due to the FBI case that resulted in convictions and prison time. Which is RIDICULOUS.

The FBI argued that schools did not participate in the deals, and therefore were a victim of fraud. You cannot have fraud if there is no victim, if they "encouraged" and "embraced" it as the NCAA is stating the Feds had no crime committed and no case.

Remember it was the defense that brought in the recordings of Will Wade, Sean Miller, and Bill Self to prove the schools were involved. The prosecution and the courts ruling said they were not involved. It wasn't a crime if Kansas participated in the scheme, merely NCAA rule violations. The federal court has ruled that they did not. The NCAA is going to have to get those convictions overturned.
 
The NCAA is going to have a very difficult time in court with this due to the FBI case that resulted in convictions and prison time. Which is RIDICULOUS.

The FBI argued that schools did not participate in the deals, and therefore were a victim of fraud. You cannot have fraud if there is no victim, if they "encouraged" and "embraced" it as the NCAA is stating the Feds had no crime committed and no case.

Remember it was the defense that brought in the recordings of Will Wade, Sean Miller, and Bill Self to prove the schools were involved. The prosecution and the courts ruling said they were not involved. It wasn't a crime if Kansas participated in the scheme, merely NCAA rule violations. The federal court has ruled that they did not. The NCAA is going to have to get those convictions overturned.
The NCAA won’t be “in court”, nor do they have standing to “get those convictions overturned”. This is an NCAA enforcement issue.
 
The NCAA is going to have a very difficult time in court with this due to the FBI case that resulted in convictions and prison time. Which is RIDICULOUS.

The FBI argued that schools did not participate in the deals, and therefore were a victim of fraud. You cannot have fraud if there is no victim, if they "encouraged" and "embraced" it as the NCAA is stating the Feds had no crime committed and no case.

Remember it was the defense that brought in the recordings of Will Wade, Sean Miller, and Bill Self to prove the schools were involved. The prosecution and the courts ruling said they were not involved. It wasn't a crime if Kansas participated in the scheme, merely NCAA rule violations. The federal court has ruled that they did not. The NCAA is going to have to get those convictions overturned.
The NCAA isn't a court and what the prosecution argued doesn't matter. The court didn't rule that the schools didn't commit NCAA rule violations. The NCAA will determine that, and it doesn't look good for them IMO.
 
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The NCAA won’t be “in court”, nor do they have standing to “get those convictions overturned”. This is an NCAA enforcement issue.
Kansas lawyers will have them in court, they will file immediately if they punish for rule violations that a court of law already ruled did not happen. If they "embraced" "encouraged" participated there was no crime.

The UNC case had precedent in federal court with the NCAA stating in several civil cases it was not responsible for what they were then trying to punish a school for. They tried to, but UNC lawyered up and the NCAA would lose horribly in court, from their own arguments in prior winnings cases. They will have to defend any punishments given over this new court ruling, and the FBI's successful case, which put people in prison, after proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the colleges did not participate in this "crime". They will be enforcing a rule, that the courts already ruled was not broken.
 
The NCAA isn't a court and what the prosecution argued doesn't matter. The court didn't rule that the schools didn't commit NCAA rule violations. The NCAA will determine that, and it doesn't look good for them IMO.
The problem is they ruled there was a crime, and their is no crime if the NCAA rules were violated by "embracing or encouraging" the activity. The defense was that the schools were involved. The court ruled otherwise. The NCAA saying we are going to punish them anyway? They will have to debunk the Feds winning case or the punishments will not stand.
 
The problem is they ruled there was a crime, and their is no crime if the NCAA rules were violated by "embracing or encouraging" the activity. The defense was that the schools were involved. The court ruled otherwise. The NCAA saying we are going to punish them anyway? They will have to debunk the Feds winning case or the punishments will not stand.
No, the court didn't rule that there was no violation of NCAA rules. Those weren't the charges. The federal government doesn't make determinations of NCAA rules violations. The NCAA will determine whether there were NCAA rules violations and will use evidence from the trials in its case. It doesn't look good for the schools.
 
The charge was fraud. The defense was that these were just NCAA violations, no crime. To win the case the Feds had to establish that the NCAA violations did not happen because the schools were not involved. There was no denial of the activity, only that the colleges participated, so no fraud, just NCAA rules not followed.

To prove fraud they had to clear the schools of "embracing or encouraging" the activity. It was a week long trial all about the schools breaking rules or being the victims of fraud. They can't be both.
 
Kansas lawyers will have them in court, they will file immediately if they punish for rule violations that a court of law already ruled did not happen. If they "embraced" "encouraged" participated there was no crime.

The UNC case had precedent in federal court with the NCAA stating in several civil cases it was not responsible for what they were then trying to punish a school for. They tried to, but UNC lawyered up and the NCAA would lose horribly in court, from their own arguments in prior winnings cases. They will have to defend any punishments given over this new court ruling, and the FBI's successful case, which put people in prison, after proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the colleges did not participate in this "crime". They will be enforcing a rule, that the courts already ruled was not broken.
I’m afraid you lack even a rudimentary understanding of either the UNC or KU matters, the NCAA enforcement process, or the role of the legal system as it pertains to matters such as the alleged violations of rules specific to either school.
 
The charge was fraud. The defense was that these were just NCAA violations, no crime. To win the case the Feds had to establish that the NCAA violations did not happen because the schools were not involved. There was no denial of the activity, only that the colleges participated, so no fraud, just NCAA rules not followed.

To prove fraud they had to clear the schools of "embracing or encouraging" the activity. It was a week long trial all about the schools breaking rules or being the victims of fraud. They can't be both.
I think you need to do a little more research in this. These convictions are in no way good for the athletic programs of these universities. I'd bet good money that there will be NCAA punishments for Louisville and Kansas. Louisville at least fired their coach and ruled Bowen ineligible, but that's probably not enough for the NCAA. Kansas has done nothing but denying despite Self being very likely directly involved in getting his recruits paid to come to Kansas.

Also, keep in mind that the interests of the university and the of the university coaches aren't always the same. The universities' interests can be harmed by their basketball coaches acting in a way that they believe is in THEIR best interest (recruiting top talent, even if it requires some rules violations). The university awards scholarships thinking that the athletes are eligible - even if they actually aren't because of violations committed by their coaches.
 
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The UNC case punishments/findings were specifically dropped due to the court case where they could not win. UNC basically said "shut the eff up, and give the punishments we will proceed with the case, and remove them. They had no case to assess the punishment. There were 3 previous cases where the NCAA were defendants from individuals and class action groups of student athletes, already ruled on the issue in federal court. The NCAA argued successfully that was not their jurisdiction in those. If they were to impose the punishments UNC had a slam dunk case to overturn the NCAA. Much clearer then the Penn State football case where the NCAA was annihilated for their punishments and had to pay damages on top of it. The NCAA was 18 million in already and UNC was 22 million in already. They had no case to win in court if they went forward with any sanctions

This case is in their jurisdiction, but the FBI case specifically dealt with the schools involvement or lack of involvement. That is what the entire case was about. The activity was admitted to, only the schools involvement was in question. They federal court ruled they were not involved. That is the case Kansas and their lawyers have. Throw out these findings and penalties, you have already exonerated the schools of these actions in the FBI case beyond a reasonable doubt which was the only basis for the defendants being imprisoned.
 
The coaches and athletic Department represent the school. It would be easy for the NCAA if they found this information and proceeded. Since it became a criminal case it hinged entirely on saying they were defrauded by the outside parties without knowledge from the school that includes their employees (coach included). The wording the NCAA used in their statement means they know they are going to have to refute the FBI's case and the finding of the court that the colleges were not involved.
 
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The coaches and athletic Department represent the school. It would be easy for the NCAA if they found this information and proceeded. Since it became a criminal case it hinged entirely on saying they were defrauded by the outside parties without knowledge from the school that includes their employees (coach included). The wording the NCAA used in their statement means they know they are going to have to refute the FBI's case and the finding of the court that the colleges were not involved.
You’re entirely out of your element here. That goes for each of your last two posts.
 
NCAA is a private organization. They have bylaws that deal with rule violations. As long as they follow their bylaws the courts will not get involved in whatever internal discipline/consequences they impose (or don't).
 
They certainly can win this as it falls under their bylaws, and they will fight to. The Penn State and UNC cases did not fall under their jurisdiction which they even argued successfully in court previously, and they lost spectacularly in each. It should be a no problem enforcement by their organization, but the week long criminal case muddied the waters. The issue that Kansas legal team is making is these findings are after an in depth federal case which has already ruled that the behavior did not happen.

The reason Cleveland State gets hammered on any NCAA accusation, is they can't afford 20 plus million in legal fees for defense and NCAA pressure leaning on them. Kansas has been on this for years already, with top level legal teams. The findings of the court gives them the wiggle room for when the NCAA now tries to find after the fact the opposite of what the court found.

The NCAA knows they have a real battle now, for what would have been a no problem enforcement if it wasn't for the ridiculous criminal case the Feds had to save face with. They have even assigned this to a 3rd party legal group to handle intricate legal cases they have established.
 
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The NCAA has to make Adidas "boosters" not a 3rd party outside of Kansas involvement, as the federal case found. They will have to refute the courts verdict to have jurisdiction in it's bylaws. Here are the statements already released as to NCAA bylaws from Kansas.

"As the federal trial proved, Adidas employees intentionally concealed impermissible payments"

"Kansas never denied impermissible payments were made, they claim misapplication of NCAA bylaws on boosters and recruiting"

associating the payments to Kansas is a "gross misapplication of bylaws and CASE PRECEDENT"

This is where the legal battle lies, Adidas and really all shoe companies actions as "boosters" or separate actors as the federal court found them to be, which was the basis for the fraud convictions.


"
 
The NCAA has to make Adidas "boosters" not a 3rd party outside of Kansas involvement, as the federal case found. They will have to refute the courts verdict to have jurisdiction in it's bylaws. Here are the statements already released as to NCAA bylaws from Kansas.

"As the federal trial proved, Adidas employees intentionally concealed impermissible payments"

"Kansas never denied impermissible payments were made, they claim misapplication of NCAA bylaws on boosters and recruiting"

associating the payments to Kansas is a "gross misapplication of bylaws and CASE PRECEDENT"

This is where the legal battle lies, Adidas and really all shoe companies actions as "boosters" or separate actors as the federal court found them to be, which was the basis for the fraud convictions.


"
Once again, you don’t have the slightest clue how the NCAA renders punishment within the construct of their rules.
 
Ok, there is going to be a legal battle just like Penn State (Sandusky crimes). NCAA punishments were struck down for not having the jurisdiction in their bylaws for the behavior they were punishing, and they had to pay for how and what they rendered. Just like UNC after 5 years leaning, when time for court, they have to step down, no case to defend thethe punishments they rendered. That's how the NCAA renders punishment, and also how they are thrown out.

They now have to show Kansas "embraced" "encouraged" and were not victims of fraud, which would make them in violation by their bylaws. NCAA has already stated their case Will be that it fits as a "booster" relationship, that is opposite of the courts findings in the Fed case. If the courts verdict stands and they are ruled as a 3rd party who defrauded the University, the court can and has struck down penalties that do not meet the bylaws as an infraction, and being the unknowing victim of fraud does not meet that bylaw on boosters and recruiting.

The FED case is a problem, for what should be a textbook easy enforcement of a violation.
 
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By the way did you see the agents papers filed today to Zion and his mother. Each question specifically states acting on behalf of Duke University for what is claimed to have been given.
 
Ok, there is going to be a legal battle just like Penn State (Sandusky crimes). NCAA punishments were struck down for not having the jurisdiction in their bylaws for the behavior they were punishing, and they had to pay for how and what they rendered. Just like UNC after 5 years leaning, when time for court, they have to step down, no case to defend thethe punishments they rendered. That's how the NCAA renders punishment, and also how they are thrown out.

They now have to show Kansas "embraced" "encouraged" and were not victims of fraud, which would make them in violation by their bylaws. NCAA has already stated their case Will be that it fits as a "booster" relationship, that is opposite of the courts findings in the Fed case. If the courts verdict stands and they are ruled as a 3rd party who defrauded the University, the court can and has struck down penalties that do not meet the bylaws as an infraction, and being the unknowing victim of fraud does not meet that bylaw on boosters and recruiting.

The FED case is a problem, for what should be a textbook easy enforcement of a violation.
The NCAA punishment against PSU wasn’t “struck down” by any court, it was voluntarily reduced by the NCAA. Your posts are replete with inaccuracies and falsehoods.
 
The NCAA punishment against PSU wasn’t “struck down” by any court, it was voluntarily reduced by the NCAA. Your posts are replete with inaccuracies and falsehoods.
You are correct! They did "voluntarily" admit they were wrong, and rescinded it all, with apologies, the legal fight Penn State continued had no affect, it was time to put up or shut up, they shut up and apologized...lol. They learned, and left Baylor (big money to fight)and others alone where they would get hammered in court for over stepping their bylaws in criminal situations ever since, lol. Just as the UNC case, they "voluntarily" retracted their sanctions...lol. No more delays possible, time for court, oh we "volunteer" to drop/rescind the charges/sanctions, from the advice of our own arbitration people, but we are disappointed you did not accept the findings...lol

They will do as they wish, but if the school has the financial wherewithal to stay strong they better be doing it within the bylaws, or they will rescind.

What should be a open and shut case now is open to "gross misapplacation of bylaws" legal argument due to the clearly guilty offenders being deemed victims of fraud with no knowledge prior in a federal court to the. charges the NCAA sites as a "booster" relationship.

They have a legal battle ahead. They can win this one, so hopefully they won't "voluntarily" rescind/drop charges for the findings, once again.
 
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Dtodd I seriously doubt anyone has read more than one of your legal briefs, or diatribes or whatever. It may be too late to rescue this thread but please stop.
 
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