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NCAA is a joke and about to get owned.

Love it. Schools like iu will continue to recruit and get players like TJD who are more concerned about their stats and making $ from their NIL than they are winning. Meanwhile Purdue will continue to recruit players who want to win. Its been nearly 2,000 days since Purdue lost to iu. iu fans will line the pockets of their players with cash while Purdue just keeps racking up wins.
Want to wager on that?

Oh...wait...never mind.

2,000 days...yikes. Who keeps count of this...oh that is right, your entire fanbase bases their self esteem on this count. I bet you even have the count on GBI? Nah...that would be waay too obsessed and the most little brother thing ever.
 
Want to wager on that?

Oh...wait...never mind.

2,000 days...yikes. Who keeps count of this...oh that is right, your entire fanbase bases their self esteem on this count. I bet you even have the count on GBI? Nah...that would be waay too obsessed and the most little brother thing ever.
They would need a supercomputer capable of exploring the multiverse and all of its infinite timelines to count the days since their last NCAA basketball championship.
They should probably stick with "nearly 2000".
 
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The University has nothing to do with what the Alum and business owners will pay. That is where NIL is going to come into play. TJD can do commercials etc.

IU basketball fans will pay more toward NIL than anyone but UK and maybe UNC.

I don't think you or others have any idea what this means, it isn't the Athletic department getting free reign on spending. It allows the athletes to profit off themselves. Meaning, allowing me to pay Tamar to put" Cavanagh is the smartest man on rivals" on his shoe.
Unwittingly, you demonstrated why this isn’t going to work as you and a few others believe it will. Paragraph One blows you out of the water.
 
Preposterous not to think the Indiana basketball program and subsequent players and prospective recruits won't benefit from the recent NIL recommendations from the Supreme Court. Indiana has one of the largest (and big $$) basketball fan bases in the country as is evident by it's generated revenue. Only reason why Ordy is once again trying to downplay Indiana University.
The SC ruling had nothing to do with NIL. Typical of you to not know anything about the case. And you claimed to be an educator. Lol
 
30 years in the sports media business. The originator of this thread is mostly correct. Indiana has one of the largest "basketball" fan followings in the nation. I've been involved with ad buys targeting sport specific college fans and the IUBB base is massive. It's simply because it's the flagship university of a basketball crazy state that has been good for decades. Indiana's combined basketball Twitter/Instagram is around the same size as Kentucky.

There's a good podcast on Hoosier Hysterics with the CEO of OpenDorse. NIL is a complicated subject with laws still be written. But in nutshell TJD has one of the largest combined Twitter/Instagram followings in the Big Ten. And IU basketball has been terrible the past few years. OpenDorse guy says TJDs social media revenue is worth 140k per year. Then there will be additional money for autographs, personal appearances etc. He also predicted that NIL revenue will be as well known as the IU player basketball stats.

In this state most of the NIL spending will be done on basketball players. There's an NCAA meeting this week that will hopefully clarify the NIL rules. But, yes, if this all happens Indiana basketball players will be the kings of NIL revenue for basketball players. Let's hope the coaching staff can take advantage of this new world in college sports.

mostly???? ;). Oh and the current staff was built for this. We are running this thing like a professional team, perfect time for the new staff to transition.
 
30 years in the sports media business. The originator of this thread is mostly correct. Indiana has one of the largest "basketball" fan followings in the nation. I've been involved with ad buys targeting sport specific college fans and the IUBB base is massive. It's simply because it's the flagship university of a basketball crazy state that has been good for decades. Indiana's combined basketball Twitter/Instagram is around the same size as Kentucky.

There's a good podcast on Hoosier Hysterics with the CEO of OpenDorse. NIL is a complicated subject with laws still be written. But in nutshell TJD has one of the largest combined Twitter/Instagram followings in the Big Ten. And IU basketball has been terrible the past few years. OpenDorse guy says TJDs social media revenue is worth 140k per year. Then there will be additional money for autographs, personal appearances etc. He also predicted that NIL revenue will be as well known as the IU player basketball stats.

In this state most of the NIL spending will be done on basketball players. There's an NCAA meeting this week that will hopefully clarify the NIL rules. But, yes, if this all happens Indiana basketball players will be the kings of NIL revenue for basketball players. Let's hope the coaching staff can take advantage of this new world in college sports.
Thanks for the calm version, this is consistent with what i have read and frankly, just being in the middle of it for so long. I need to learn more about what the opportunities and pitfalls ahead may be. i will check out that podcast this weekend.
 

Frankly, IU is going to be one of the biggest winners in this. The current staff is already pumping it in recruitments. IU will compensate players more than almost any other school in the country. IU UK UNC KU etc. a few huge winners in this. Hell, I’ll pay Tamar to put “Cavanagh was right”on his shoes.
There are soooo many layers to this, and details that are yet to be determined, that I think its basically impossible to say, right now, who will benefit the most from this...outside the players themselves, which I think is the main takeaway, at this point...and the point of NIL. High profile male basketball talents, if you're looking for a demographic that will certainly benefit from NIL rules, will be the ones that benefit the most. High profile football players, namely quarterbacks and other position guys, would probably be up there too. Then other rare Olympic level young athletes that choose to attend college... Really any athlete that already has an established social media following coming into college, is going to benefit from this NIL the MOST.

The devil is in the details for just how much, who, what programs, etc... will benefit the most from NIL. If it ends up being pure market driven...think a professional athletes freedom to make money via endorsements, autographs, etc... but obviously without the salary... If that's how it goes, I can't envision a scenario where IU basketball doesn't benefit greatly from it, versus most other college programs.

Use Zion Williamson as an example (most extreme recent example, but a good one)...If he's allowed to make money off his Youtube fame, his twitter fame, his instagram fame...and maintain his NCAA eligibility...he'll come into college already wealthy. So it'll change the factors he'll use for his college choice, possibly. But I would still think, nearly ALL high profile recruits will begin to factor in what schools will maximize their earning potential during those 1-4 years they're in school. And that's where the details are crucial. If its a pure market, and fans, companies, donors, etc... are allowed to endorse and pay players for things like appearances, autographs, are allowed to drive followers to their social media platforms, are allowed to cross market ON their social media platforms, etc...without any regulation or oversite from the NCAA and/or from the school...well then IU will absolutely benefit greatly from it...versus most other programs. If things are divied out in the athletic department in anyway, if NCAA controls it somehow, if there are major limiting factors on how earnings are generated, etc... then obviously it could change the calculus greatly. If its in anyway based off total school revenue, obviously the Texas, OSU, Alabamas of the world will dominate. But I think that would kind of go away from what this whole NIL movement is trying to achieve...which is to allow the individual athletes to make money off their own talents and contributions.

With regards to IU. If its purely market driven, and a Zion Williamson type kid can make money off both his own brand coming into college, but then also benefit and make even more money off what his brand will grow too while in school...I can't see how IU wouldn't benefit GREATLY from it.

How many schools have had the ability to pay a 10 million dollar buyout in basketball...AND offer a guy like Stevens the contracts that we were rumored to have offered him...and then go and assemble a staff like we were able to assemble??? That list is VERY short. And it illustrates how powerful our numbers, our alumni, and even though we haven't earned it on the court in a LONG, LONG time, how powerful our tradition is when it comes to spending money on our basketball program. If anything, the fact that we were able to get a donor to buy Archie out, and to spend the money to assemble the staff we did...despite the Admin fumbling on nearly every major decision we've made on the program since the mid 90's... makes an even stronger case for how powerful our "brand" will be for these high profile recruits.

How much earning potential will there be, in a short period of time, for these athletes.

Coach Woodson will have to become well versed in what IU has going for it in terms of social media followers, active donors for the program, etc... Or more likely, all the top programs will have a specialist that will track all this, and be able to communicate what their earning potential would be at IU versus the other programs they're looking at. And this "Player Brand Associate" will probably be the most popular people at the AAU tournaments. To the point where it'll leave the coaches to just go back to watching basketball, and not having to deal solely with the "entourages".

"PBA...I want to pursue these 8 players. Get in contact with them and their people and give them our NIL numbers."

No matter what, things are going to change dramatically for the high profile basketball and football kids. It'll change for all athletes, but I don't think the non revenue sports will benefit, or get hurt much from it.

Whether IU basketball benefits from it is based on the details of the rule.
 
There are soooo many layers to this, and details that are yet to be determined, that I think its basically impossible to say, right now, who will benefit the most from this...outside the players themselves, which I think is the main takeaway, at this point...and the point of NIL. High profile male basketball talents, if you're looking for a demographic that will certainly benefit from NIL rules, will be the ones that benefit the most. High profile football players, namely quarterbacks and other position guys, would probably be up there too. Then other rare Olympic level young athletes that choose to attend college... Really any athlete that already has an established social media following coming into college, is going to benefit from this NIL the MOST.

The devil is in the details for just how much, who, what programs, etc... will benefit the most from NIL. If it ends up being pure market driven...think a professional athletes freedom to make money via endorsements, autographs, etc... but obviously without the salary... If that's how it goes, I can't envision a scenario where IU basketball doesn't benefit greatly from it, versus most other college programs.

Use Zion Williamson as an example (most extreme recent example, but a good one)...If he's allowed to make money off his Youtube fame, his twitter fame, his instagram fame...and maintain his NCAA eligibility...he'll come into college already wealthy. So it'll change the factors he'll use for his college choice, possibly. But I would still think, nearly ALL high profile recruits will begin to factor in what schools will maximize their earning potential during those 1-4 years they're in school. And that's where the details are crucial. If its a pure market, and fans, companies, donors, etc... are allowed to endorse and pay players for things like appearances, autographs, are allowed to drive followers to their social media platforms, are allowed to cross market ON their social media platforms, etc...without any regulation or oversite from the NCAA and/or from the school...well then IU will absolutely benefit greatly from it...versus most other programs. If things are divied out in the athletic department in anyway, if NCAA controls it somehow, if there are major limiting factors on how earnings are generated, etc... then obviously it could change the calculus greatly. If its in anyway based off total school revenue, obviously the Texas, OSU, Alabamas of the world will dominate. But I think that would kind of go away from what this whole NIL movement is trying to achieve...which is to allow the individual athletes to make money off their own talents and contributions.

With regards to IU. If its purely market driven, and a Zion Williamson type kid can make money off both his own brand coming into college, but then also benefit and make even more money off what his brand will grow too while in school...I can't see how IU wouldn't benefit GREATLY from it.

How many schools have had the ability to pay a 10 million dollar buyout in basketball...AND offer a guy like Stevens the contracts that we were rumored to have offered him...and then go and assemble a staff like we were able to assemble??? That list is VERY short. And it illustrates how powerful our numbers, our alumni, and even though we haven't earned it on the court in a LONG, LONG time, how powerful our tradition is when it comes to spending money on our basketball program. If anything, the fact that we were able to get a donor to buy Archie out, and to spend the money to assemble the staff we did...despite the Admin fumbling on nearly every major decision we've made on the program since the mid 90's... makes an even stronger case for how powerful our "brand" will be for these high profile recruits.

How much earning potential will there be, in a short period of time, for these athletes.

Coach Woodson will have to become well versed in what IU has going for it in terms of social media followers, active donors for the program, etc... Or more likely, all the top programs will have a specialist that will track all this, and be able to communicate what their earning potential would be at IU versus the other programs they're looking at. And this "Player Brand Associate" will probably be the most popular people at the AAU tournaments. To the point where it'll leave the coaches to just go back to watching basketball, and not having to deal solely with the "entourages".

"PBA...I want to pursue these 8 players. Get in contact with them and their people and give them our NIL numbers."

No matter what, things are going to change dramatically for the high profile basketball and football kids. It'll change for all athletes, but I don't think the non revenue sports will benefit, or get hurt much from it.

Whether IU basketball benefits from it is based on the details of the rule.

That was some good shit. I am highly confident it is going to be a free market. Obviously, nothing is set in stone, but just seeing how things are trending it would be shocking if it was anything otherwise IMO.
 
That was some good shit. I am highly confident it is going to be a free market. Obviously, nothing is set in stone, but just seeing how things are trending it would be shocking if it was anything otherwise IMO.
I'm highly confident they'll have to rip the money out of the NCAA's cold, dying hands. So I would guess initially, they'll try to put some rules and regulations in place to put a governor on how much the kids can make...and to try to tap into whatever revenue streams are created. "See what we did everyone?! Zion Williamson got a check from the NCAA for a whopping 50 grand!...(to their staffer under their breath)..."Make sure they never find out we made 50 million off the linked social media accounts, the NCAA brokered endorsement deals, and the NCAA sanctioned autograph sessions."

The end game is probably pure market...but that could be a long ways off. So the details on how they attempt to control it will be crucial.

The Brnks of the board could end up being right. You could end up being right. Not sure anyone is right, right now though.

One thing is certain, how good, or bad, IU basketball has been the last 30 years on the court isn't likely going to be a limiting factor in how we're able to market in the new NIL world. No matter how its laid out. Our lower football numbers could be a factor...but that would surprise me, as it would mean the new NIL laws really aren't doing what most believe they were intended to do.
 
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Do you guys realize this ruling had nothing to do with NIL, right?

I mean that's a separate issue that's definitely coming down the pike..... but that's really nothing to do with this ruling which deals with arbitrary caps on "educational benefits" that schools can provide.
 
Do you guys realize this ruling had nothing to do with NIL, right?

I mean that's a separate issue that's definitely coming down the pike..... but that's really nothing to do with this ruling which deals with arbitrary caps on "educational benefits" that schools can provide.
The wrong spelling “kavanaugh” statement was the thing that made it clear NIL is coming. That was the biggest part of this IMO.

 
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Do you guys realize this ruling had nothing to do with NIL, right?

I mean that's a separate issue that's definitely coming down the pike..... but that's really nothing to do with this ruling which deals with arbitrary caps on "educational benefits" that schools can provide.
The NCAA has stated they were waiting on this ruling before moving forward with their new NIL rules. Legislation in some states take effect on July 1st allowing athletes to profit from their NIL. The NCAA is scrambling to address it across the board before then. The reality is that the only option the NCAA really has is to allow a free market across the board. You can’t have different states with different NIL rules.
 
The wrong spelling “kavanaugh” statement was the thing that made it clear NIL is coming. That was the biggest part of this IMO.
NIL was already coming. It's as good as here already. As @twenty02 said, all this case addressed was additional "educational" benefits. The Court wasn't asked to address direct payments to players. But Kavanaugh's concurrence did everything but invite the players to bring that question up next, and sounded like he at least would rule in their favor if/when they do. It would take several years for that question to get back to them. In the meantime, how NIL is executed and regulated seems to be being left to the various states unless Congress steps in.
 
The wrong spelling “kavanaugh” statement was the thing that made it clear NIL is coming. That was the biggest part of this IMO.


Kavanaugh wrote a solo opinion. It was not the actual ruling, and nobody else signed onto his opinion. Gorsuch wrote the actual ruling, and it was fairly narrow.

NIL was already coming. This had nothing much to do with it. Other than perhaps give it the last nudge off the cliff.

The tea leaves have been easy to read on this for a number of years. Comp to players was gonna be happening. Ncaa should just run the damn tourneys, negotiate the money deals with the TV networks and stay the hell out of the way of everything else.
 
Kavanaugh wrote a solo opinion. It was not the actual ruling, and nobody else signed onto his opinion. Gorsuch wrote the actual ruling, and it was fairly narrow.

Do you think the unanimous ruling has any correlation to the others thinking the same as Kavanaugh? I have no clue, but I assume at least the majority feel the same way he does.
 
Do you think the unanimous ruling has any correlation to the others thinking the same as Kavanaugh? I have no clue, but I assume at least the majority feel the same way he does.

No I think that others think the same way as the opinion written by Gorsuch that they actually signed. If they agreed with Kavanaugh, they could have easily joined him. But none did.

Doesn't much matter. The state legislatures are pushing the envelope on NIL. And nothing the NCAA can do to stop that.
 
No I think that others think the same way as the opinion written by Gorsuch that they actually signed. If they agreed with Kavanaugh, they could have easily joined him. But none did.

Doesn't much matter. The state legislatures are pushing the envelope on NIL. And nothing the NCAA can do to stop that.
Im ready for it, I love this Wild Wild West shit.
 
We already know you don’t belong in a discussion of IU sports. Where are you going to meet me at the Idaho game, or are you still too afraid to tell me? Lol.
The offer still stands Ordy. Kickoff is at 7:30PM. Meet me in the parking lot at like 6:30PM. I’m usually in Lot 10. I’ll even buy you a beer, if you actually show up, but you’re not invited to dinner at Janko’s before the game.
 
In 2005, you were probably in middle school. You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, as usual. When teams are good, fans pay. When they aren’t, they don’t. Since you don’t follow IU closely, you’d be shocked by the 3,000 - 4,000 empty seats these last few years, as well as the disappearance of the waiting list for tickets. “We make shirts” and TJD at a local car dealership only reveals how modest Your expectations are for NIL. You need to get out more.
Oh my goodness. You’re just flailing all over the place in here. Keep up the selfings though please. It’s hilarious. The NIL projections are looking good for IU because even though we’ve been below average for years, we still have a huge social media footprint.
 
The offer still stands Ordy. Kickoff is at 7:30PM. Meet me in the parking lot at like 6:30PM. I’m usually in Lot 10. I’ll even buy you a beer, if you actually show up, but you’re not invited to dinner at Janko’s before the game.
Nah, let’s meet inside the stadium. If you need directions, let me know. Cool that your folks are taking you to JLZ. Gonna get the hot dog? By the way, we both know you’ll never show. Guys like you always run and hide.
 
Kavanaugh wrote a solo opinion. It was not the actual ruling, and nobody else signed onto his opinion. Gorsuch wrote the actual ruling, and it was fairly narrow.

NIL was already coming. This had nothing much to do with it. Other than perhaps give it the last nudge off the cliff.

The tea leaves have been easy to read on this for a number of years. Comp to players was gonna be happening. Ncaa should just run the damn tourneys, negotiate the money deals with the TV networks and stay the hell out of the way of everything else.
This is what i learned reading more deeply into it last night. The Gorsuch document is what needs to be minded and it is less broad and sloppy than BK's.
 
Nah, let’s meet inside the stadium. If you need directions, let me know. Cool that your folks are taking you to JLZ. Gonna get the hot dog? By the way, we both know you’ll never show. Guys like you always run and hide.
You don’t go to football games old man. A 7:30PM kickoff will be past Ordy’s bedtime. I’ve got a 4:30PM reservation at Janko’s and then we’re heading to Lot 10. There will be a group of us since I have friends in real life. There’s no need to be scared. I just want to see what a 75 year old internet troll looks like in person.
 
Lost in the discussion is the possibility of seeing guys like Kofi Cockburn and Lula Garza staying in college because they will make more than if they'd turn pro. It might be wise to consider that colleges do not want their highly paid athletes leaving early after a nice tourney run.

The NCAA is a minor professional league now. The repercussions are vast.
 
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You don’t go to football games old man. A 7:30PM kickoff will be past Ordy’s bedtime. I’ve got a 4:30PM reservation at Janko’s and then we’re heading to Lot 10. There will be a group of us since I have friends in real life. There’s no need to be scared. I just want to see what a 75 year old internet troll looks like in person.
You’re eating at 4:30? Lol. And we all knew you were too scared to follow through.
 
You don’t go to football games old man. A 7:30PM kickoff will be past Ordy’s bedtime. I’ve got a 4:30PM reservation at Janko’s and then we’re heading to Lot 10. There will be a group of us since I have friends in real life. There’s no need to be scared. I just want to see what a 75 year old internet troll looks like in person.
He does not attend games and I suspect never set foot on campus, after all "Btown sucks, restaurants suck, academics suck, IU FB sucks, facilities suck" We learned that he does not attend after a Neb FB game where claims of being there were made and then debunked. That is when he swore to never ever ever respond to another of my posts. That was about 2,100 responses ago. And remember he is "not ordy" he has told us that many times

"Lot 10" I assume you mean entrance 10 (purple lot)? They sure made that area nicer than the old gravel lot didn't they? We are either up the hill in the HH white lot or down by the practice field if we bring the MH. Looking forward to a very interesting season. Cheers.
 
Lost in the discussion is the possibility of seeing guys like Kofi Cockburn and Lula Garza staying in college because they will make more than if they'd turn pro. It might be wise to consider that colleges do not want their highly paid athletes leaving early after a nice tourney run.

The NCAA is a minor professional league now. The repercussions are vast.
Again, a huge advantage to IU. Can you imagine what Cody zeller would have got paid his sophomore year? Good god, he would have had more commercials (rightfully so he is naturally funny like a poor mans Peyton) than any athlete in Indiana. Easily.

Hell, Romeo would have had so many endorsement deals from southern Indiana. That guy literally held autographs lines for hours after games. He was way better at marketing than basketball. 500k not out of the question for him his freshmen year in a free market, maybe more tbh.
 
Again, a huge advantage to IU. Can you imagine what Cody zeller would have got paid his sophomore year? Good god, he would have had more commercials (rightfully so he is naturally funny like a poor mans Peyton) than any athlete in Indiana. Easily.

Hell, Romeo would have had so many endorsement deals from southern Indiana. That guy literally held autographs lines for hours after games. He was way better at marketing than basketball. 500k not out of the question for him his freshmen year in a free market, maybe more tbh.

Here I go responding to myself again, but Tom Crean will benefit from NIL. I can see him landing good talent because of his marketing abilities.

I think Cody would have easily been worth over a million dollars his sophomore year.

You know Christian is like….. about that watshot rev?????
 
He does not attend games and I suspect never set foot on campus, after all "Btown sucks, restaurants suck, academics suck, IU FB sucks, facilities suck" We learned that he does not attend after a Neb FB game where claims of being there were made and then debunked. That is when he swore to never ever ever respond to another of my posts. That was about 2,100 responses ago. And remember he is "not ordy" he has told us that many times

"Lot 10" I assume you mean entrance 10 (purple lot)? They sure made that area nicer than the old gravel lot didn't they? We are either up the hill in the HH white lot or down by the practice field if we bring the MH. Looking forward to a very interesting season. Cheers.
Says the fake alum who talked about the HYPER and Jimmy Laskowski. Way too many instances where I’ve busted you for lying about your affiliation with IU. Happy to resume. Rent free, of course. Love that I remain in your head.
 
You’re eating at 4:30? Lol. And we all knew you were too scared to follow through.
Do the math Ordy. It's a 7:30PM kickoff. We'll be at Janko's from 4:30 - 6:00, and then head to the stadium. We'll want to have some time in the lot to drink a couple of beers before we head inside. We both know you won't be there, but I will. Would the Cincinnati game the following week work better for you? No Janko's that day because after the game I'm heading up to Indy for the Umphrey's McGee show. Nothing like a Saturday full of IU football and then an UM rock show.

Here are some covers and an original for the uninitiated:





 
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He does not attend games and I suspect never set foot on campus, after all "Btown sucks, restaurants suck, academics suck, IU FB sucks, facilities suck" We learned that he does not attend after a Neb FB game where claims of being there were made and then debunked. That is when he swore to never ever ever respond to another of my posts. That was about 2,100 responses ago. And remember he is "not ordy" he has told us that many times

"Lot 10" I assume you mean entrance 10 (purple lot)? They sure made that area nicer than the old gravel lot didn't they? We are either up the hill in the HH white lot or down by the practice field if we bring the MH. Looking forward to a very interesting season. Cheers.
I may be saying it wrong, but it's the back of the parking lot when you enter off the bypass. Just started parking there last year and loved it. Easy in and easy out. We used to park back off 12th Street, kinda by the old Yogi's location, cause it was free. We're over the long walk though. I usually leave my car in the lot till the next morning so I don't get a DUI now that they serve those yummy Upland beers inside the stadium. That's a nice perk of parking there as well.
 
You really don’t have friends do you… when you are at large gathering, you know with friends, you eat when available. Like noon, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, hell even 10 pm!!!

Never been to a tailgate have you lol.
Cav, you can come and party with us anytime pregame. We'll be puffing as well, so you'll fit right in with our group.
 
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Do the math Ordy. It's a 7:30PM kickoff. We'll be at Janko's from 4:30 - 6:00, and then head to the stadium. We'll want to have some time in the lot to drink a couple of beers before we head inside. We both know you won't be there, but I will. Would the Cincinnati game the following week work better for you? No Janko's that day because after the game I'm heading up to Indy for the Umphrey's McGee show. Nothing like a Saturday full of IU football and then an UM rock show.

Here are some covers and an original for the uninitiated:





There's something Notre Dame related that I can get behind.
 
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There's something Notre Dame related that I can get behind.
I was at IU from 1998-2002 and they played the Bird about 5-6 times a year back then. I first saw them playing at a campground after a Phish show at Deer Creek in 1997 I think? Anyway, they were the bar band du jour when I was at IU and I've been seeing UM shows for over 20 years now. I wish I could've been at Red Rocks last weekend for the 3 night run, but seeing them in Indy this fall will have to suffice for now.
 
I was at IU from 1998-2002 and they played the Bird about 5-6 times a year back then. I first saw them playing at a campground after a Phish show at Deer Creek in 1997 I think? Anyway, they were the bar band du jour when I was at IU and I've been seeing UM shows for over 20 years now. I wish I could've been at Red Rocks last weekend for the 3 night run, but seeing them in Indy this fall will have to suffice for now.
10 years earlier, it was Jif and the Choosy Mothers that always seemed to be on the bill. UM was certainly the better option.
 
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