NCAA is a joke and about to get owned.

Cavanagh.13

Junior
Nov 6, 2019
1,904
2,203
113
In the end the Supreme Court ruling absolutely led to to outcome today's NIL ruling. Those who said otherwise didn't know what they were talking about. The NCAA committee mentioned the Supreme Court case when they recommended the approval of NIL. There is an ESPN article today with lots of IU stuff as one of the schools most prepared for this new world of college sports. AD Dolson wants to be known as the NIL school as stated in a quote today. Just wanted to finish what I started here. This message board is a disaster or the sites moderators encourage this to push people to the premium forum.

This place has really grown on me, when moderarion does happen I get annoyed. Easy to filter and keep scrolling for me. Some of the smarter basketball conversations magically pop here though. Way more then you will find on the premiuim boards. I find those to be very homer and low level thinking. You won’t get the latest recruit scoop, but for in season basketball talk? Some smart guys here for sure.

Oh and about this article. https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/31719581/ncaa-making-nil-prep-difficult

Scott Dolson might just have him a statue one day. I don’t think I could be more impressed. We might be the most prepared school in the country for this. What a stud.
 

Victorbmyboy

Senior
Nov 10, 2014
2,199
1,815
113
Who gets a better deal from Adidas, IU or KU? Ask yourself why. We aren’t close to Kansas.
Well if you are talking about KU original contract it was pretty close. They got an extension that doubled it in 2019. IU is due in 2023 and I bet we get ours significantly increased. KU was around 7-8 million.(they now have a contract for 12-14 million until 2031).IU is 6-7 million. IU will be set to negotiate anytime from now until 2023.
 

hookyIU1990

All-American
Gold Member
Sep 26, 2007
6,540
8,556
113
We're well positioned to take advantage of the NIL based on the number of Alumni alone. Add in the proactive steps that Dolson has taken and I like the idea that we're ahead of the curve.

From 2018, which is the last year I could find with good numbers, the top 10 list of universities with the largest living alumni base was dominated by the B1G with 7 of them.

1. Penn State 673k
2. Indiana 650k
3. Meatchicken 575K
4. Michigan State 552K
5. UCLA 500K
6. Ahia State 500K
7. Cal Berkley 499K
8. Rutger 486K
9. UT Austin 482K
10. purdoo 479K

 

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,846
3,310
113
Well if you are talking about KU original contract it was pretty close. They got an extension that doubled it in 2019. IU is due in 2023 and I bet we get ours significantly increased. KU was around 7-8 million.(they now have a contract for 12-14 million until 2031).IU is 6-7 million. IU will be set to negotiate anytime from now until 2023.
With NIL, seems like apparel providers might choose to structure their college deals differently, especially if they’re able to work with individual players.
 

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,846
3,310
113
We're well positioned to take advantage of the NIL based on the number of Alumni alone. Add in the proactive steps that Dolson has taken and I like the idea that we're ahead of the curve.

From 2018, which is the last year I could find with good numbers, the top 10 list of universities with the largest living alumni base was dominated by the B1G with 7 of them.

1. Penn State 673k
2. Indiana 650k
3. Meatchicken 575K
4. Michigan State 552K
5. UCLA 500K
6. Ahia State 500K
7. Cal Berkley 499K
8. Rutger 486K
9. UT Austin 482K
10. purdoo 479K

Aren’t IU’s numbers inflated by the regional campuses, which include many alums who never went to school in Bloomington and who likely aren’t rabid fans like those who did?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lucy01

i'vegotwinners

Hall of Famer
Dec 1, 2006
11,561
3,836
113
The wrong spelling “kavanaugh” statement was the thing that made it clear NIL is coming. That was the biggest part of this IMO.


the NFL and NBA also have business models and practices that would be illegal in other industries.

that said, i don't see Kavanaugh or the present court being a big defender of anti trust or employee rights.

when the "powers that be" that nominate judges for scotus refer to a judge as "conservative", it isn't abortion or gay rights they are talking about.
 

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,846
3,310
113
I fully expect that too. I’m on the fence as to how.
Apparel companies will go directly to players, but if permitted to do so. What if UA wants to sponsor TJD but IU has him in Adidas apparel, including a uniform and shoes? If TJD’s deal is recognized, isn’t the Adidas deal devalued as a result? What if Penix wears Nike because he’s paid to do so? Why wouldn’t Adidas measure the ultimate value of their deal with any school based on the take up by individual players?
 
Last edited:

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
27,588
13,493
113
We're well positioned to take advantage of the NIL based on the number of Alumni alone. Add in the proactive steps that Dolson has taken and I like the idea that we're ahead of the curve.

From 2018, which is the last year I could find with good numbers, the top 10 list of universities with the largest living alumni base was dominated by the B1G with 7 of them.

1. Penn State 673k
2. Indiana 650k
3. Meatchicken 575K
4. Michigan State 552K
5. UCLA 500K
6. Ahia State 500K
7. Cal Berkley 499K
8. Rutger 486K
9. UT Austin 482K
10. purdoo 479K

Not only does IU have one of the largest and most affluent alumni bases in the country, but they have a large subway following as well. Standard alumni might be 70% connected to IU hoops (for example) while subway alumni are 100% as sports is why they are there.

IU's numbers are very attractive, despite what our rivals want you to think.
 

Victorbmyboy

Senior
Nov 10, 2014
2,199
1,815
113
Not only does IU have one of the largest and most affluent alumni bases in the country, but they have a large subway following as well. Standard alumni might be 70% connected to IU hoops (for example) while subway alumni are 100% as sports is why they are there.

IU's numbers are very attractive, despite what our rivals want you to think.
This fact alone gives IU, Duke, UK, Kansas, UNC, even UCLA a big advantage. Fans buy stuff. Alumni, especially business alumni will help get deals long after they leave campus. If CBB was a popularity contest those above walk the main hallway. This of course only works if the school doesn’t screw it up. PUke isn’t even in the same universe. People need to realize recruiting has forever changed. Twitter following just got more power than it’s ever had.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cavanagh.13

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
27,588
13,493
113
This fact alone gives IU, Duke, UK, Kansas, UNC, even UCLA a big advantage. Fans buy stuff. Alumni, especially business alumni will help get deals long after they leave campus. If CBB was a popularity contest those above walk the main hallway. This of course only works if the school doesn’t screw it up. PUke isn’t even in the same universe. People need to realize recruiting has forever changed. Twitter following just got more power than it’s ever had.
MI, TX, AL, Ahia are also huge (Football based).
 

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,846
3,310
113
Not only does IU have one of the largest and most affluent alumni bases in the country, but they have a large subway following as well. Standard alumni might be 70% connected to IU hoops (for example) while subway alumni are 100% as sports is why they are there.

IU's numbers are very attractive, despite what our rivals want you to think.
In particular, would you link the data related to affluence? I’ve seen this mentioned generally, but never with any support. Thanks.
 

Baller23Boogie

Senior
Gold Member
Aug 17, 2008
2,543
4,104
113
Apparel companies will go directly to players, but if permitted to do so. What if UA wants to sponsor TJD but IU has him in Adidas apparel, including a uniform and shoes? If TJD’s deal is recognized, isn’t the Adidas deal devalued as a result? What if Penix wears Nike because he’s paid to do so? Why wouldn’t Adidas measure the ultimate value of their deal with any school based on the take up by individual players?

That goes for every major college athlete out there though.

Kansas and Adidas. Duke and Nike. Texas and Nike. North Carolina and Jordan.

Every major college team has a sponsor.
 

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,846
3,310
113
That goes for every major college athlete out there though.

Kansas and Adidas. Duke and Nike. Texas and Nike. North Carolina and Jordan.

Every major college team has a sponsor.
Agreed, which will devalue them for the universities. No reason to pay a large sum to IU or any other school when you can go directly to the athletes. The same will be true potentially for any sort of consumer product, including (if over 21) alcohol. You can certainly see car dealers and restaurants getting into this with enthusiasm, though I think the landscape will ultimately produce a glut of players, with endorsement values going down (pro players will continue to want to endorse, as well). Major market schools with close in alumni fan and alumni bases will likely carry the day, as will SEC and BT football schools.
 
Last edited:

Cavanagh.13

Junior
Nov 6, 2019
1,904
2,203
113
This fact alone gives IU, Duke, UK, Kansas, UNC, even UCLA a big advantage. Fans buy stuff. Alumni, especially business alumni will help get deals long after they leave campus. If CBB was a popularity contest those above walk the main hallway. This of course only works if the school doesn’t screw it up. PUke isn’t even in the same universe. People need to realize recruiting has forever changed. Twitter following just got more power than it’s ever had.
I have already had dms with Tamars family (asked if I could take them out to eat in the Bahamas) think how easily people are gonna be able to shoot NIL stuff to them. They will get offers left and right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Victorbmyboy

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,846
3,310
113
I have already had dms with Tamars family (asked if I could take them out to eat in the Bahamas) think how easily people are gonna be able to shoot NIL stuff to them. They will get offers left and right.
Overall social media followings for all IU teams is in the bottom third of the P5. They’re 4th overall on basketball, but hoops badly trails football here. This is a football dominated deal and, while we won’t do poorly, we’ll hardly dominate in the grander scheme. Overall, we’re no better than 11th in the BiG, just ahead of PU, Rutgers and Northwestern.
 

Cavanagh.13

Junior
Nov 6, 2019
1,904
2,203
113
Overall social media followings for all IU teams is in the bottom third of the P5. They’re 4th overall on basketball, but hoops badly trails football here. This is a football dominated deal and, while we won’t do poorly, we’ll hardly dominate in the grander scheme. Overall, we’re no better than 11th in the BiG, just ahead of PU, Rutgers and Northwestern.
IU basketball players will easily make on average top 5 schools in the country money. I’m not gonna argue. The numbers and deals will be public. Football is not related to basketball at all in this. NIL gives free market to boosters. Me, you, or any business can now offer individual players deals. I am willing to give IU basketball players money
for their NIL. Not willing to give football players a dime. Many will feel the same as me in the state or be very tilted towards the basketball players.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Victorbmyboy

Victorbmyboy

Senior
Nov 10, 2014
2,199
1,815
113
Agreed, which will devalue them for the universities. No reason to pay a large sum to IU or any other school when you can go directly to the athletes. The same will be true potentially for any sort of consumer product, including (if over 21) alcohol. You can certainly see car dealers and restaurants getting into this with enthusiasm, though I think the landscape will ultimately produce a glut of players, with endorsement values going down (pro players will continue to want to endorse, as well). Major market schools with close in alumni fan and alumni bases will likely carry the day, as will SEC and BT football schools.
It won’t include alcohol or tobacco products(or establishments that sell them)per NIL rules released today. That is specifically mentioned. Also, the student athletes can’t use any school logo promoting themselves unless it’s approved.
 
Last edited:

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,846
3,310
113
IU basketball players will easily make on average top 5 schools in the country money. I’m not gonna argue. The numbers and deals will be public. Football is not related to basketball at all in this. NIL gives free market to boosters. Me, you, or any business can now offer individual players deals. I am willing to give IU basketball players money
for their NIL. Not willing to give football players a dime. Many will feel the same as me in the state or be very tilted towards the basketball players.
Football isn’t related to basketball In this? Thats crazy. In the little pond that is Indiana, basketball players will do okay. But the real money nationwide will be driven by football. That’s why our social media ranking within the P5 is in the mid 50’s. Football is the goldmine here.
 

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
27,588
13,493
113
IU basketball players will easily make on average top 5 schools in the country money. I’m not gonna argue. The numbers and deals will be public. Football is not related to basketball at all in this. NIL gives free market to boosters. Me, you, or any business can now offer individual players deals. I am willing to give IU basketball players money
for their NIL. Not willing to give football players a dime. Many will feel the same as me in the state or be very tilted towards the basketball players.
If IU Football has a seven or eight win regular season the social media numbers will continue to climb exponentially. Tough to ever catch StatePenn, MI, or Ahia but basketball numbers will be climbing as well. IU will be in the upper half of the BIG very shortly.
 

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,846
3,310
113
It won’t include alcohol or tobacco products(or establishments that sell them)per NIL rules released today. That is specifically mentioned. Also, the student athletes can’t use any school logo promoting themselves unless it’s approved.
But every kid and his family will essentially be up for bid during the recruiting process. Even without alcohol, some kids and their families will still be able to bypass the school. Will TJD sign a deal to promote Nike? What would IU’s provider think about that? Remember Michael Jordan covering his Reebok logo? We’re 11th on the Bog 10 in social media followings for all teams. Not saying we can’t do okay, but the notion that we’ll leapfrog a bunch of Big 10 teams is unrealistic, at best.
 

hookyIU1990

All-American
Gold Member
Sep 26, 2007
6,540
8,556
113
Data is a year old but IU has the 4th largest amount of social media followers of all NCAA basketball programs. Also the most of any B1G school by a wide margin.


For those wondering Skull Sparks is a social media branding consultancy that focuses on college athletics.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cavanagh.13

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,846
3,310
113
Data is a year old but IU has the 4th largest amount of social media followers of all NCAA basketball programs. Also the most of any B1G school by a wide margin.



For those wondering Skull Sparks is a social media branding consultancy that focuses on college athletics.
Correct. Check out how we compare overall, and within the BiG.
 

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
27,588
13,493
113
Data is a year old but IU has the 4th largest amount of social media followers of all NCAA basketball programs. Also the most of any B1G school by a wide margin.



For those wondering Skull Sparks is a social media branding consultancy that focuses on college athletics.
#1 in the BIG and almost double #2 and that margin will grow assuming Woddy has some success Tom Allen, assuming again some success will see FB followings grow substantially. IU is in by far the best position in the BIG for growth due to current data and the likely hood of exponential increases.

This is not rocket science just Marketing 101.
 

Lucy01

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Sep 16, 2014
10,617
5,108
113
#1 in the BIG and almost double #2 and that margin will grow assuming Woddy has some success Tom Allen, assuming again some success will see FB followings grow substantially. IU is in by far the best position in the BIG for growth due to current data and the likely hood of exponential increases.

This is not rocket science just Marketing 101.
Who is Woddy?
 

hookyIU1990

All-American
Gold Member
Sep 26, 2007
6,540
8,556
113
#1 in the BIG and almost double #2 and that margin will grow assuming Woddy has some success Tom Allen, assuming again some success will see FB followings grow substantially. IU is in by far the best position in the BIG for growth due to current data and the likely hood of exponential increases.

This is not rocket science just Marketing 101.

It's not been a coincidence that we had players on both basketball and football tweeting out professional quality highlights packages or in game photos of themselves and their stats after games.

If our football team can maintain it's recent success, the social media group should be able to grow their numbers into something respectable within a season or two. I think the football program does a great job with the team level stuff and CTA already.
 

IUNorth

All-American
Oct 25, 2002
7,450
1,569
113
Football isn’t related to basketball In this? Thats crazy. In the little pond that is Indiana, basketball players will do okay. But the real money nationwide will be driven by football. That’s why our social media ranking within the P5 is in the mid 50’s. Football is the goldmine here.
I think this will make the current we’re swimming against in football recruiting stronger and more difficult. As you’ve pointed out, football has staggering numbers, and we’re not very high on the totem pole. It’s going to be a challenge for Dolson and Allen to put anything credible together that would convince a blue chip football recruit his time at IU would be as profitable as it would in Happy Valley, Ann Arbor, etc… which is what this will all be about.

But I don’t think the football numbers will have a huge bearing on basketball. Social media commerce is obviously influenced by larger macro type general pools of “consumers”…but MUCH more so it’s evolved into targeted, demographic specific efforts…much more on the micro level. Geofencing, algorithms that track web activity…these things dominate it all now. And IUs HUGE advantage against our current peers in basically any metric you look at, as it pertains to college basketball specific fans…combined with what looks like an AD that is on the cutting edge of maximizing his athletes knowledge and benefits from NIL…it will be a boost for IU recruiting.

They still have to play the games. So Woodson still has to make sure he’s going after the right kinds of kids. And then developing them and winning with them. He should have the ability to get better overall talents than other Big Ten programs. But it doesn’t mean much if we end up with a Memphis type program. In the end…NIL will be a very, very big factor in top level recruits. And we’ll make a lot more lists because of it. But the big money is still getting to the NBA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cavanagh.13

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,846
3,310
113
I think this will make the current we’re swimming against in football recruiting stronger and more difficult. As you’ve pointed out, football has staggering numbers, and we’re not very high on the totem pole. It’s going to be a challenge for Dolson and Allen to put anything credible together that would convince a blue chip football recruit his time at IU would be as profitable as it would in Happy Valley, Ann Arbor, etc… which is what this will all be about.

But I don’t think the football numbers will have a huge bearing on basketball. Social media commerce is obviously influenced by larger macro type general pools of “consumers”…but MUCH more so it’s evolved into targeted, demographic specific efforts…much more on the micro level. Geofencing, algorithms that track web activity…these things dominate it all now. And IUs HUGE advantage against our current peers in basically any metric you look at, as it pertains to college basketball specific fans…combined with what looks like an AD that is on the cutting edge of maximizing his athletes knowledge and benefits from NIL…it will be a boost for IU recruiting.

They still have to play the games. So Woodson still has to make sure he’s going after the right kinds of kids. And then developing them and winning with them. He should have the ability to get better overall talents than other Big Ten programs. But it doesn’t mean much if we end up with a Memphis type program. In the end…NIL will be a very, very big factor in top level recruits. And we’ll make a lot more lists because of it. But the big money is still getting to the NBA.
I think where the dominance of football over basketball will potentially “hurt” IU athletes is that sheer volume may somewhat dilute the social media impact of NCAA athletes. Since football is so dominant, they’re likely to get a huge amount of the attention.

We’re the top school in the Big 10 for SM following in respect of basketball, and top five nationally. When you consider all sports (of which football provides the overwhelming contribution), we fall to 11th and 54th, respectively. That’s what most people here are missing. We may feel like a big fish in our little pond but, in the big ocean, we have dramatically less significance.

Is there potential to grow? Of course. But every school will believe they can grow, and NIL capabilities will flower everywhere. The notion that we have some kind of huge head start is wishful, at best.

Will be interesting to see how it sorts out.
 

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
27,588
13,493
113
I think this will make the current we’re swimming against in football recruiting stronger and more difficult. As you’ve pointed out, football has staggering numbers, and we’re not very high on the totem pole. It’s going to be a challenge for Dolson and Allen to put anything credible together that would convince a blue chip football recruit his time at IU would be as profitable as it would in Happy Valley, Ann Arbor, etc… which is what this will all be about.

But I don’t think the football numbers will have a huge bearing on basketball. Social media commerce is obviously influenced by larger macro type general pools of “consumers”…but MUCH more so it’s evolved into targeted, demographic specific efforts…much more on the micro level. Geofencing, algorithms that track web activity…these things dominate it all now. And IUs HUGE advantage against our current peers in basically any metric you look at, as it pertains to college basketball specific fans…combined with what looks like an AD that is on the cutting edge of maximizing his athletes knowledge and benefits from NIL…it will be a boost for IU recruiting.

They still have to play the games. So Woodson still has to make sure he’s going after the right kinds of kids. And then developing them and winning with them. He should have the ability to get better overall talents than other Big Ten programs. But it doesn’t mean much if we end up with a Memphis type program. In the end…NIL will be a very, very big factor in top level recruits. And we’ll make a lot more lists because of it. But the big money is still getting to the NBA.
Football will have little if any impact on Basketball but in IU's case the big MBB numbers will be an easier transtion to FB should TA have some success this year. Bottom line is that IU is very good position for major advancement in the rankings...dependent of course upon the FB team's progress. That will be a tough road given the brutal schedule and the huge bullseye that will be on their backs.
 

Victorbmyboy

Senior
Nov 10, 2014
2,199
1,815
113
Football isn’t related to basketball In this? Thats crazy. In the little pond that is Indiana, basketball players will do okay. But the real money nationwide will be driven by football. That’s why our social media ranking within the P5 is in the mid 50’s. Football is the goldmine here.
I think where the dominance of football over basketball will potentially “hurt” IU athletes is that sheer volume may somewhat dilute the social media impact of NCAA athletes. Since football is so dominant, they’re likely to get a huge amount of the attention.

We’re the top school in the Big 10 for SM following in respect of basketball, and top five nationally. When you consider all sports (of which football provides the overwhelming contribution), we fall to 11th and 54th, respectively. That’s what most people here are missing. We may feel like a big fish in our little pond but, in the big ocean, we have dramatically less significance.

Is there potential to grow? Of course. But every school will believe they can grow, and NIL capabilities will flower everywhere. The notion that we have some kind of huge head start is wishful, at best.

Will be interesting to see how it sorts out.
Why are you lumping them together? You think Kansas, Kentucky etc will fail because last I checked Kansas football is a dumpster fire. You can’t lump all of them together and the money is individual.
 

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,846
3,310
113
Why are you lumping them together? You think Kansas, Kentucky etc will fail because last I checked Kansas football is a dumpster fire. You can’t lump all of them together and the money is individual.
Lumping them together shows how much the overall numbers favor football over basketball. Again, IU can be a relatively big fish in the relatively small hoops pond, but theres a reason we lag most of the Big 10 and the P5.
 
May 2, 2017
1,309
2,283
113
Why are you lumping them together? You think Kansas, Kentucky etc will fail because last I checked Kansas football is a dumpster fire. You can’t lump all of them together and the money is individual.
Because he's old man Ordy and he doesn't understand how this works.

hardware-cloud.jpg
 

IUNorth

All-American
Oct 25, 2002
7,450
1,569
113
Lumping them together shows how much the overall numbers favor football over basketball. Again, IU can be a relatively big fish in the relatively small hoops pond, but theres a reason we lag most of the Big 10 and the P5.
But there’s little to no practical reason to lump them together. Ohio State football fans and/or boosters aren’t going to shop, endorse, cross market, etc… on a Kaleb Wesson type kids “brand”… they’re going to focus all their time, influence, money, on Justin Fields.

I happen to think this is going to hurt basketball recruiting at obvious football schools. In my example above…Kaleb Wesson will see a massive Ohio State fan/alumni/booster base to try to market to, to your point. But in terms of that fanbases interest in him, because he’s not playing football, he’ll likely be viewed as an offensive lineman level in terms of marketability for the OSU pool. It’s going to be hard for OSU basketball to get kids excited about what they offer with the huge football heavy OSU pool.

IU basketball stars will be at the top of the IU NIL world. And thusly, near the top of the college basketball NIL world.
 

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,846
3,310
113
But there’s little to no practical reason to lump them together. Ohio State football fans and/or boosters aren’t going to shop, endorse, cross market, etc… on a Kaleb Wesson type kids “brand”… they’re going to focus all their time, influence, money, on Justin Fields.

I happen to think this is going to hurt basketball recruiting at obvious football schools. In my example above…Kaleb Wesson will see a massive Ohio State fan/alumni/booster base to try to market to, to your point. But in terms of that fanbases interest in him, because he’s not playing football, he’ll likely be viewed as an offensive lineman level in terms of marketability for the OSU pool. It’s going to be hard for OSU basketball to get kids excited about what they offer with the huge football heavy OSU pool.

IU basketball stars will be at the top of the IU NIL world. And thusly, near the top of the college basketball NIL world.
There’s no reason to think TOSU fans won’t support Wesson, too. It’s an extremely loyal fan base for all of their sports. If single sport fans reign, it will be at places like IU, where the football fan following remains poor, especially given the enrollment, as well as the heavily local alumni base.