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Murphy’s Law is still on the sideline

82hoosier

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Sep 7, 2001
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Personal injury lawyers are always looking for an angle. All it will take is one lawyer talking to one football player at one university telling him that he is being put at an extreme risk of catching the virus when there is not ANY certainty that there will even be a season.

Two words of concern: punitive damages.
 
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Personal injury lawyers are always looking for an angle. All it will take is one lawyer talking to one football player at one university telling him that he is being put at an extreme risk of catching the virus when there is not ANY certainty that there will even be a season.

Two words of concern: punitive damages.

Meh.

The actual math and the actual science and the legal concepts of “proximate cause” and “burden of proof” are against it.

First, merely “catching the virus” is virtually meaningless. Most people are asymptomatic and have to be TOLD they “caught it.” Most of the rest never even get seriously ill. And the ones who do are overwhelmingly not college age or supremely-healthy athletes.

Plus, it is virtually impossible to tell how/when one “catches” the virus, which it makes it virtually impossible to PROVE how you got it in court.

The college athlete is far more at risk for being sued for infecting an older at-risk person than winning a lawsuit against a university, especially if they are not “forced” to play. But then the older at-risk person must also prove how and where they “caught” the virus.
 
Meh.

The actual math and the actual science and the legal concepts of “proximate cause” and “burden of proof” are against it.

First, merely “catching the virus” is virtually meaningless. Most people are asymptomatic and have to be TOLD they “caught it.” Most of the rest never even get seriously ill. And the ones who do are overwhelmingly not college age or supremely-healthy athletes.

Plus, it is virtually impossible to tell how/when one “catches” the virus, which it makes it virtually impossible to PROVE how you got it in court.

The college athlete is far more at risk for being sued for infecting an older at-risk person than winning a lawsuit against a university, especially if they are not “forced” to play. But then the older at-risk person must also prove how and where they “caught” the virus.

I am wondering if some players at some school will not show up claiming that it is not safe.
 
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Meh.

The actual math and the actual science and the legal concepts of “proximate cause” and “burden of proof” are against it.

First, merely “catching the virus” is virtually meaningless. Most people are asymptomatic and have to be TOLD they “caught it.” Most of the rest never even get seriously ill. And the ones who do are overwhelmingly not college age or supremely-healthy athletes.

Plus, it is virtually impossible to tell how/when one “catches” the virus, which it makes it virtually impossible to PROVE how you got it in court.

The college athlete is far more at risk for being sued for infecting an older at-risk person than winning a lawsuit against a university, especially if they are not “forced” to play. But then the older at-risk person must also prove how and where they “caught” the virus.

Before we rush to hangout in huge crowds....

Looks like Stanford fudged the figures on the "no worries, it's less infectious and deadly than we thought" study...:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/05...ts-accused-of-hyping-covid-19-antibody-study/

Letting partisan Politics overcome Common Sense and good science might eventually be the death of all of us... (not from COVID19 but something else in the future)...

And before I'm ripped for being some left wing Pollyanna, I can assure you all that I'm not.

Here's another article on the same topic:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...-antibody-studies.html?ico=amp_articleRelated
 
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Here's one of the more "Common Sense" type of articles ( out of Utah [not exactly a hotbed of far left politics]...) about how infectious COVID19 appears to be in different social settings (all anecdotal, no peer reviews, no links other than the article)...

It's a "Use Your Own Judgement" based on how it appears to have happened up till now article... (and I don't necessarily agree with every conclusion they're coming to so..., use your own judgement...).

The part that's most pertinent to college football is near the bottom (European soccer game)...

Here's the article: https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/05/23/your-guide-how/
 
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Personal injury lawyers are always looking for an angle. All it will take is one lawyer talking to one football player at one university telling him that he is being put at an extreme risk of catching the virus when there is not ANY certainty that there will even be a season.

Two words of concern: punitive damages.

This is where the insurance industry lobby has been so much more effective than the plaintiff's lobby. You're repeating the conventional wisdom, but it's just incorrect.

I mean, you're not incorrect that attorneys are vigilant, but it's really not just that easy. You have to have a duty, breach of duty, proximate cause, and damages.

There's a reason that if you search you're not going to find many (if any) lawsuits against schools because someone got sick at college like we're talking about. You'll find some where someone got sick and was mis-diagnosed by a clinic. But that's not general negligence for getting sick, it's medical malpractice for poor care. Another theory could be a failure to warn. Like they find out there's an outbreak of something on a particular dorm floor and don't warn anyone of a concern. Schools generally already do this, because that can satisfy their duty.

COVID is a serious disease, but it's still a disease. It's not special, legally, because of the international response. It will still have to go through the same sober legal analysis as anything else. And like was said above, simply proving where you got infected and how will be a near impossibility for anyone who is even minimally mobile our out and about.

And most state universities won't give a lick about punitive damages because if their state Tort Claims Acts (the laws that allow us to sue state actors) are anything like ours, they're immune from punitive damages in addition to damages caps and a ton of other built-in protections.

Finally, and this is the most important thing to consider IMO, we all have a constitutional right to trial by jury in civil cases. And many of the same people who believe that adding face masks to the dress code to gain entry into a store is an assault on their freedom also believe that immunity statutes should be passed to limit litigation, which is ACTUALLY a right that has been chipped away for years.

Personal injury coronavirus cases are going to be hard enough. If you're able to prove all the necessary elements and suffer significant injury, they deserve compensation for wrongdoing without creating disincentives for businesses to take safety measures in the first place.
 
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I am wondering if some players at some school will not show up claiming that it is not safe.

Yep. Was thinking about that the other day too.

I'd say there will be several at every school who will pass.

Especially if I was already convinced I was not gonna pursue an NFL career, I think it would be a hard decision.

BUT --- most "kids" feel bulletproof. When they see/hear that they have a 98-99 percent chance of being OK, poof - they're in the car.
 
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Surely everyone playing or coaching or officiating will have to be tested and pass shortly before the game in order to play. Nobody should play otherwise.
 
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Before we rush to hangout in huge crowds....

Looks like Stanford fudged the figures on the "no worries, it's less infectious and deadly than we thought" study...:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/05...ts-accused-of-hyping-covid-19-antibody-study/

Letting partisan Politics overcome Common Sense and good science might eventually be the death of all of us... (not from COVID19 but something else in the future)...

And before I'm ripped for being some left wing Pollyanna, I can assure you all that I'm not.

Here's another article on the same topic:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...-antibody-studies.html?ico=amp_articleRelated

You know this is only one study that has shown it is not as bad as expected. How you got the entire group of people that think this is overblown came to this conclusion from this one study makes my head hurt.

Also, they didnt "fudge" the figures. That's a lie so please stop. It's embarrassing. They were accused of having some holes in their statistical model which happens(this is even mentioned in the article). Just because the mercurynews news, thru innuendo, tried to make it look like some grand conspiracy doesnt make it so.

From Mercury News article
The claim that this was politically motivated. Their proof?
- They went on the Fox network twice
- They accepted 5 grand from the dude from Jetblue. lol at 5k. I am not even a baller and I have blown 2k in the past week without a second thought. You mean I can buy off a Stanford research team for only 3k more? lol. at 5k.
- "Knowingly stepping into the partisan fray “injects their science blatantly into a political fight,” said Stanford’s Hank Greely, a prominent medical and scientific ethics expert. “It’s letting their research be weaponized for political ends, which guarantees it will be distorted.” How did they step into the political fray anymore than any other scientist.Please explain that. How are they different than all these other scientist going on CNN to the Joe Rogan podcast telling us how we are all going to die and the govt. needs to put in restrictions?

I have friends losing their business and we have unemployment that they now say is up to anywhere from 15-20 plus percent. I am officially tired of you people. You cling on any nonsense that helps you believe you were not 100% wrong on this. This hysteria is almost as bad as when I had to hear for 3 years that our President was an agent for Russia and even after being cleared of colluding with Russians by Mueller they still refuse to accept reality(I did vote in 2016 but not for Trump or Hillary).
 
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You know this is only one study that has shown it is not as bad as expected. How you got the entire group of people that think this is overblown came to this conclusion from this one study makes my head hurt.

Also, they didnt "fudge" the figures. That's a lie so please stop. It's embarrassing. They were accused of having some holes in their statistical model which happens(this is even mentioned in the article). Just because the mercurynews news, thru innuendo, tried to make it look like some grand conspiracy doesnt make it so.

From Mercury News article
The claim that this was politically motivated. Their proof?
- They went on the Fox network twice
- They accepted 5 grand from the dude from Jetblue. lol at 5k. I am not even a baller and I have blown 2k in the past week without a second thought. You mean I can buy off a Stanford research team for only 3k more? lol. at 5k.
- "Knowingly stepping into the partisan fray “injects their science blatantly into a political fight,” said Stanford’s Hank Greely, a prominent medical and scientific ethics expert. “It’s letting their research be weaponized for political ends, which guarantees it will be distorted.” How did they step into the political fray anymore than any other scientist.Please explain that. How are they different than all these other scientist going on CNN to the Joe Rogan podcast telling us how we are all going to die and the govt. needs to put in restrictions?

I have friends losing their business and we have unemployment that they now say is up to anywhere from 15-20 plus percent. I am officially tired of you people. You cling on any nonsense that helps you believe you were not 100% wrong on this. This hysteria is almost as bad as when I had to hear for 3 years that our President was an agent for Russia and even after being cleared of colluding with Russians by Mueller they still refuse to accept reality(I did vote in 2016 but not for Trump or Hillary).

Here's hoping you're 100% right and everyone else (including me) is 100% wrong.

Couple of small notes : adjusting your figures to match a predisposed outcome is known to most of the rest of the slightly civilized world as "fudging" them..., oh and the Stanford study isn't just one among many it's one that up until now many in this universe considered the most credible... (but I'm guessing you already knew that)...

Businesses can be rebuilt..., neither you nor I can resurrect anyone...

If you have me slotted in that group of people who considers lives more important than money than boy you pigeon holed me you really did...(DWS).
 
What a relief! We can get it, pass it on, maybe even kill a few people, and get off Scott free!

I suddenly envisioned two old enemies coughing at each other

luckynumberslevin.jpg
 
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You know this is only one study that has shown it is not as bad as expected. How you got the entire group of people that think this is overblown came to this conclusion from this one study makes my head hurt.

Also, they didnt "fudge" the figures. That's a lie so please stop. It's embarrassing. They were accused of having some holes in their statistical model which happens(this is even mentioned in the article). Just because the mercurynews news, thru innuendo, tried to make it look like some grand conspiracy doesnt make it so.

From Mercury News article
The claim that this was politically motivated. Their proof?
- They went on the Fox network twice
- They accepted 5 grand from the dude from Jetblue. lol at 5k. I am not even a baller and I have blown 2k in the past week without a second thought. You mean I can buy off a Stanford research team for only 3k more? lol. at 5k.
- "Knowingly stepping into the partisan fray “injects their science blatantly into a political fight,” said Stanford’s Hank Greely, a prominent medical and scientific ethics expert. “It’s letting their research be weaponized for political ends, which guarantees it will be distorted.” How did they step into the political fray anymore than any other scientist.Please explain that. How are they different than all these other scientist going on CNN to the Joe Rogan podcast telling us how we are all going to die and the govt. needs to put in restrictions?

I have friends losing their business and we have unemployment that they now say is up to anywhere from 15-20 plus percent. I am officially tired of you people. You cling on any nonsense that helps you believe you were not 100% wrong on this. This hysteria is almost as bad as when I had to hear for 3 years that our President was an agent for Russia and even after being cleared of colluding with Russians by Mueller they still refuse to accept reality(I did vote in 2016 but not for Trump or Hillary).

One problem is this - the earliest predictions based on the earliest models were wrong.

No other way to look at it.

The US public was told "there will be millions - plural - die in the United States" and most folks believed it. Now the folks who touted those numbers face the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" problem. (And folks forget who won that story - the wolf. The Boy was just the FIRST loser.)

That would have happened no matter what.

BUT they were also reported in the current political climate where facts matter less than insulting or defending Trump. The real data gets lost in the political fight. Reporters don't ask the meaningful questions. Newpapers don't write about the meaningful issues. They ask and write about what will make Trump look good/bad respectively.

And the first "rush to press" stories about vaccines said "2-3 years."
Then 18 months.
Then maybe New Years.
Then we hear there are 90 in some stage of testing, including one that will be tested in 10,000 people as early as July.

What to believe?

Your guess is as good as mine.
Walter Cronkite ain't gonna walk through that door.
At best we get politically-influenced facts.
At worst, we get fabricated news.

That's why I look for NUMBERS and trust my own eyes.
They tell me that I need to lay low for a while, but most everybody else is pretty safe.
 
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Deep dive into the Indiana coronavirus page from the state and go read the IUPUI study data. The data doesn’t lie. Deadly?...for a fraction of a percentage, sure. Worth the hysteria? No way. Take precautions. Vulnerable sit tight. It’s pretty simple.

It’s a highly infectious virus. Of course it’ll spread like crazy. It’s starting to spread where I work. It’s going to spread everywhere. Protect yourself but don’t get hysterical. Our kids, young and old need educated. The fact of the matter is we have a very unhealthy nation. Let this be a wake up call.
 
Before we rush to hangout in huge crowds....

Looks like Stanford fudged the figures on the "no worries, it's less infectious and deadly than we thought" study...:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/05...ts-accused-of-hyping-covid-19-antibody-study/

Letting partisan Politics overcome Common Sense and good science might eventually be the death of all of us... (not from COVID19 but something else in the future)...

And before I'm ripped for being some left wing Pollyanna, I can assure you all that I'm not.

Here's another article on the same topic:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...-antibody-studies.html?ico=amp_articleRelated
Well, I'm a primarily liberal fellow(NOT a Democrat, mind you)who is in favor of reopening, because--we have to, but a lot of my friends, relatives, etc. who are mostly lefties, scoff, & doubt the improving #'s, & they regularly raise the possibility of the improving #'s being "fudged", but it's not that easy to do that. Last week it was Georgia--I pointed out the decrease in new cases despite having been reopened for nearly a month, & they counter with, "I read the #'s are being fudged, I don't trust them!". I responded by educating them how the reporting process works in most states: Each district or county sends in their daily #'s from their medical facilities, & the state totals these figures & reports them. In Georgia, Atlanta is by far the largest contributor in terms of #'s, & by by far the most liberal district in Georgia(Athens too). If someone at the state were to attempt to alter the reported #'s, it would be called out INSTANTLY! Medical professionals go over these reports with a fine tooth comb, & if any discrepancies existed, believe you me they would be called out. In this information age & with the presence of social media, it is very difficult to get away with any such deceptions on this large of a scale. I've been disappointed to see the left wing media, CNN particularly, behave in the manner they have during this pandemic. They have fully immersed themselves into this ridiculous reporting "competition" with right wing media. Instead of offering unbiased, balanced information, they skew, shape, & basically only report figures that support their narrative of, "we reopened too soon!"(which I didn't necessarily disagree with initially, but that is IRRELEVANT now. The reality is, we are reopening, & the responsible thing to do would be to educate people on how to do so safely, & effectively. Not to continue to try to convince people that we shouldn't have done it in the 1st place--that is a useless endeavor at this point) In the last week, I've seen them report North Carolina, & Texas, as having their highest single day increase in reported Covid 10 cases, whiile on the same day, 6 & 7 states, respectively, had their largest single day DECREASES of covid cases, but of course, nary a mention of those states.That's but 1 of many, many, many examples of the partisan coverage of this pandemic, & I could go on all day with examples of how the coverage is slanted, deceptively so, in the direction the networks wish the public to view the outbreak, & the liberal population seems to be buying the left wing narrative hook line & sinker, & therefore they are uninformed, on a scale that I've never seen in the LW before.(this has always & forever applied to the RW media & RW population, just too get that fact established) I agree that we cannot let "partisan politics overcome common sense & good science", but that absolutely goes both ways during this pandemic, & a LOT of people are tragically unaware of that FACT. A lot as in, MOST people, from what I see, hear, read, & ENDURE on a daily basis. BBC America offers the primarily unbiased coverage of our pandemic, but unfortunately, it's not particularly in depth.
 
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Surely everyone playing or coaching or officiating will have to be tested and pass shortly before the game in order to play. Nobody should play otherwise.

Let’s say they test all players before a game. Two starters test positive. So they are definitely out. Do they play the game? And if so are both teams quarantined the following 1 or 2 weeks? What if is a coach or trainer that test positive?

And at Kentucky what if it’s a topless or bottomless cheerleader who tests positive?
 
One problem is this - the earliest predictions based on the earliest models were wrong.

No other way to look at it.

The US public was told "there will be millions - plural - die in the United States" and most folks believed it. Now the folks who touted those numbers face the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" problem. (And folks forget who won that story - the wolf. The Boy was just the FIRST loser.)

That would have happened no matter what.

BUT they were also reported in the current political climate where facts matter less than insulting or defending Trump. The real data gets lost in the political fight. Reporters don't ask the meaningful questions. Newpapers don't write about the meaningful issues. They ask and write about what will make Trump look good/bad respectively.

And the first "rush to press" stories about vaccines said "2-3 years."
Then 18 months.
Then maybe New Years.
Then we hear there are 90 in some stage of testing, including one that will be tested in 10,000 people as early as July.

What to believe?

Your guess is as good as mine.
Walter Cronkite ain't gonna walk through that door.
At best we get politically-influenced facts.
At worst, we get fabricated news.

That's why I look for NUMBERS and trust my own eyes.
They tell me that I need to lay low for a while, but most everybody else is pretty safe.
I am like you and look at the numbers instead of what the resistance media or any other media. Look at the guy in England that claimed they would have millions dying and had to change very much to look at the numbers there.

The younger adults don't get in danger from this virus except for a few and people in school from elementary and upper grades aren't very get sick from this except a few. The age group with the most risk is 80 and over with 70-79 the next group in risk. In fact 65 and over have almost 90% of deaths from this virus. Take care of the elderly people and the ones with health problems that put them in risk then let others get back to living their lives with just a few changes in their lives. Before those jump in and say I don't care about the older people I am in the group, I just don't want to change so many peoples lives just because I might not that the changes I need to to protect myself.
 
Let’s say they test all players before a game. Two starters test positive. So they are definitely out. Do they play the game? And if so are both teams quarantined the following 1 or 2 weeks? What if is a coach or trainer that test positive?

And at Kentucky what if it’s a topless or bottomless cheerleader who tests positive?

First...: you don't need to test the KY cheerleaders..., just assume they already have something worse than COVID19 and move on...

Second: you should already know that those pesky hold out and quarantine rules will only apply to Teams whose names don't begin with an O, an M or P... (or possibly a W or an Ne depending on how much the boosters can ante up...)

To summarize: if a couple of our guys test positive we're screwed for two weeks minimum...
 
Let’s say they test all players before a game. Two starters test positive. So they are definitely out. Do they play the game? And if so are both teams quarantined the following 1 or 2 weeks? What if is a coach or trainer that test positive?
Yes, you play the game. With only people who test well on a reliable test shortly before the game. Coach has it, better have a good assistant! Teams learn how to keep their people safe. You should not have to quarantine if only healthy people played.
 
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