Most underrated IU player

Mar 14, 2003
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Figured I'd try a new thread about something other than shitty coaches and transfer portals. Curious what people think about this topic...most underrated player over the years.

This popped in my head after watching some of the 81 season NCAA tourney games (UAB for one) and watching Ray Tolbert. I forgot what a freak he was...big, physical, great hops, could run. Saw him pull some serious man-sized rebounds above the rim in heavy traffic in the lane. But what really got me was his ability to hit the 10-12' jumper in the lane or the baseline. He hit several in the UAB game, and I realized that, as good as TJD is as a player, I don't think I've ever seen him do this, even once. Hopefully CMW is showing TJD a looped video of this game.

Tolbert is everything that RMK hoped Andre Patterson would become.

Greg Graham would also get serious consideration. Like Tolbert, Graham played on a stacked team with several studs, including one the greats (Calbert/Isiah) and tends to get less praise as a result.
 

Birnk403

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Nov 17, 2019
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Figured I'd try a new thread about something other than shitty coaches and transfer portals. Curious what people think about this topic...most underrated player over the years.

This popped in my head after watching some of the 81 season NCAA tourney games (UAB for one) and watching Ray Tolbert. I forgot what a freak he was...big, physical, great hops, could run. Saw him pull some serious man-sized rebounds above the rim in heavy traffic in the lane. But what really got me was his ability to hit the 10-12' jumper in the lane or the baseline. He hit several in the UAB game, and I realized that, as good as TJD is as a player, I don't think I've ever seen him do this, even once. Hopefully CMW is showing TJD a looped video of this game.

Tolbert is everything that RMK hoped Andre Patterson would become.

Greg Graham would also get serious consideration. Like Tolbert, Graham played on a stacked team with several studs, including one the greats (Calbert/Isiah) and tends to get less praise as a result.
Ray Lee was Big Ten MVP in ‘81. He was, among other things, an outstanding defender. On that team, underrated and sometimes overlooked was a guy like Steve Risley. Athletic, big, could gets some buckets, defend, handle the ball a little. Just a solid contributor.
 
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Florida4IU

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Figured I'd try a new thread about something other than shitty coaches and transfer portals. Curious what people think about this topic...most underrated player over the years.

This popped in my head after watching some of the 81 season NCAA tourney games (UAB for one) and watching Ray Tolbert. I forgot what a freak he was...big, physical, great hops, could run. Saw him pull some serious man-sized rebounds above the rim in heavy traffic in the lane. But what really got me was his ability to hit the 10-12' jumper in the lane or the baseline. He hit several in the UAB game, and I realized that, as good as TJD is as a player, I don't think I've ever seen him do this, even once. Hopefully CMW is showing TJD a looped video of this game.

Tolbert is everything that RMK hoped Andre Patterson would become.

Greg Graham would also get serious consideration. Like Tolbert, Graham played on a stacked team with several studs, including one the greats (Calbert/Isiah) and tends to get less praise as a result.

Ray Tolbert was never an underrated player......neither was Greg Graham.
 
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Mar 14, 2003
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Ray Lee was Big Ten MVP in ‘81. He was, among other things, an outstanding defender.
I guess I should preface my comments with the notion that 'underrated' means how much we mention their play today. We're always referencing Alford, Calbert, Isiah, even Jay Edwards, Scott May, Buckner...but damn, Ray was good and we don't bring him up very much on this board.
 
Mar 14, 2003
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Ray Lee was Big Ten MVP in ‘81. He was, among other things, an outstanding defender. On that team, underrated and sometimes overlooked was a guy like Steve Risley. Athletic, big, could gets some buckets, defend, handle the ball a little. Just a solid contributor.
yeah Risley is forgotten on that team. He always filled in the hole when someone like Ray, Landon or Kitch got into foul trouble. The 81 team was truly loaded.
 
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Uwe Blab- was kinda painful to watch him as a freshman. Sr year averaged 16/6 and 2 blocks and 30 min/game.

Shot 71% FT his Sr year...better than most of the players on recent IU teams. Another CAM legacy.
 
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Birnk403

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Uwe Blab- was kinda painful to watch him as a freshman. Sr year averaged 16/6 and 2 blocks and 30 min/game.

Shot 71% FT his Sr year...better than most of the players on recent IU teams. Another CAM legacy.
In that era, the Anderson duo of Winston Morgan and Stew Robinson were often under appreciated, but both were solid contributors. WM, in particular, endured quite a bit of BK’s coaching, but he hung in and made it.
 
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Coach Geez

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Alan Henderson. Great player and obviously very decorated in the record books but was really overshadowed playing with Calbert, Graham, and Bailey for most of his career. Underrated in that sense. Also overshadowed in-conference by other guys in Robinson and Webber.
 
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Alan Henderson. Great player and obviously very decorated in the record books but was really overshadowed playing with Calbert, Graham, and Bailey for most of his career. Underrated in that sense. Also overshadowed in-conference by other guys in Robinson and Webber.
yes as good as Alan was, he always seemed to be playing 2nd fiddle to someone else, whether it was an IU player, big Dog, or Fraud5.
 
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yep I liked both of those guys as players. Winston barely made it through...I'm sure he cried himself to sleep many times.
In that era, the Anderson duo of Winston Morgan and Stew Robinson were often under appreciated, but both were solid contributors. WM, in particular, endured quite a bit of BK’s coaching, but he hung in and made it.
 

kkott

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When I think of underrated, I think of glue guys who were more important to the success of the team than the "stats" they had. A Joe Hillman or Steve Eyl come to mind.
 

Coach Geez

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yes as good as Alan was, he always seemed to be playing 2nd fiddle to someone else, whether it was an IU player, big Dog, or Fraud5.
Henderson is the only player in school history to finish his career top 5 in points, rebounds, blocks, and steals. Think about that? How many IU fans would consider Henderson a top 5 player in school history? Top 10 even? I don't think many would.
 

VanPastorMan

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Central Pennsylvania Via Washington Indiana
Figured I'd try a new thread about something other than shitty coaches and transfer portals. Curious what people think about this topic...most underrated player over the years.

This popped in my head after watching some of the 81 season NCAA tourney games (UAB for one) and watching Ray Tolbert. I forgot what a freak he was...big, physical, great hops, could run. Saw him pull some serious man-sized rebounds above the rim in heavy traffic in the lane. But what really got me was his ability to hit the 10-12' jumper in the lane or the baseline. He hit several in the UAB game, and I realized that, as good as TJD is as a player, I don't think I've ever seen him do this, even once. Hopefully CMW is showing TJD a looped video of this game.

Tolbert is everything that RMK hoped Andre Patterson would become.

Greg Graham would also get serious consideration. Like Tolbert, Graham played on a stacked team with several studs, including one the greats (Calbert/Isiah) and tends to get less praise as a result.
I think Joe Hillman's name isn't spoken enough. He was a glue guy. Joe was a big time scorer in high school but Knight took him and he became the guy who didn't have a whole lot of stats but was a stable influence on the court.
 

Birnk403

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yep I thought about Ricky Roe as well. He frustrated me at times but did a lot of the inside dirty work.

Does anyone dare mention Dakich's name in a thread like this??? sorry, just made myself laugh.
Nover and Steve Bouchie were similar players, though SB was bigger and stronger. Undersized but great competitors and both more skilled than they were ever given credit for.
 
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speroni

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Feb 4, 2004
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Mo Creek. His freshman year was incredible. He put IU on his back often. Averaged 16 points while hitting 61% from two, and 45% from three. That 31 point effort against UK was dazzling (even if the rest of the IU team fell apart in the second half). If he hadn't been injured for most of his IU career, I'd have loved to have seen what he would have accomplished.
 
Mar 14, 2003
2,408
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Mo Creek. His freshman year was incredible. He put IU on his back often. Averaged 16 points while hitting 61% from two, and 45% from three. That 31 point effort against UK was dazzling (even if the rest of the IU team fell apart in the second half). If he hadn't been injured for most of his IU career, I'd have loved to have seen what he would have accomplished.
Creek's body betrayed him. Over and over.
 
Mar 3, 2020
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definitely under appreciated. Most young fans don't even know who he is. I remember him blocking an inside shot vs one of the Iowa twin towers (Stokes/Payne?) and he was undersized by 10" but still stuffed it back in his face. Guy could really leave the ground. He hit a couple nice jumpers in the UAB game I referenced.
I remember him dunking on someone one time and got flipped and landed on his head amazing it didn't break his neck, saw him a few years ago in Indy he was listed at 6 4 couldn't have been 6 2 great athlete.
 
Mar 14, 2003
2,408
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I think most of us, when we hit 50 yrs old, are at least 2" shorter than our stated high school 'playing height'. The body shrinks, as does our ambitions. (sorry that sounded too melencholy).
I remember him dunking on someone one time and got flipped and landed on his head amazing it didn't break his neck, saw him a few years ago in Indy he was listed at 6 4 couldn't have been 6 2 great athlete.
 

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