Of course you're not. A lobster doesn't know he's boiling alive until it's too late, even though he's in the water.
Morgan Ellison
- Thread starter limestonecowboy
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I wasn't talking about make-up calls, and that's not what this is about. I referenced history as an impetus for the "me too" movement. And sexual violence against women isn't confined to the past. It's still happening, with alarming frequency.
Various studies have shown that only about one-third of sexual assaults are ever reported to law enforcement. Other studies have shown that only about 2%-10% of all sexual assault charges are determined to be false, roughly the same percentage as for other felonies. As the title of the linked article indicates, your son is more likely to be sexually assaulted than to face false sexual assault allegations. The suggestion that there's a rash (or uptick) of false accusations of rape is simply fear-mongering - - and a myth.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/ct-life-false-rape-allegations-20181011-story.html
Oh, what a cool analogy. I'm as dumb as a lobster. There's a novel insult, masked in an analogy, even. Much better effort. Good work.
How much do you want to bet that however I die, it won't be because I got beheaded without a trial after someone accused me of rape? I'll lay odds...100 to 1 sound good?
Meh...that insult's not as good. There has to be some kernel of truth to the insult...and lobsters can't type at all, much less type in complete sentences. IU would be pretty bummed if they found out they issued a degree to someone dumber than a lobster. Fortunately, they won't face that ignominy.
But, I presume from your lack of response that you're not going to take that bet? Typical of fearmongers...all talk, no walk.
What was the bet, lobster boy?
I guess I sort of lost interest after starting to read your post. I'm sure that happens often.
I agree with all of this with the exception of the last sentence, there are unintended consequences to most "mass movements".
There was no bet, lobster boy. It takes two people to make a bet.
"How much do you want to bet that however I die, it won't be because I got beheaded without a trial after someone accused me of rape? I'll lay odds...100 to 1 sound good?"
I ignored your laughable attempt at being macho.
So yeah, in fact, you are the dumb one.
Ummm, you thought that was being macho? I was literally just offering to bet that the thing you said was close to happening wouldn't happen. I know you ignored it, which is why I brought it back up. I never said you agreed to it. I want to know why you won't, since you keep trying to make us all afraid of it happening.
I'm starting to think maybe you don't read so good. Either way, your meaningless insults have grown tired. Good luck with the fear mongering. I'm out.
Hope Ellison is able to find success at another school. The university process is a total farce. Black men are especially likely to be falsely accused. They make up 22% of sexual assault convictions but a whopping 58% of exonerations.
This is one of those cases in which I’m not shocked as a former player. We all have mothers and grandmothers and understand sexual assault, but these are kangaroo courts and the process has to change. The way the system is set up, they rarely give justice to someone who is actually assaulted, and yet manage to punish individuals in very questionable cases. I was disturbed when CKW told the team one day, “if you’re even accused you’re off the team, so make sure that woman isn’t crazy.” The leadership at IU for young men in these circumstances is non existent from my experience. So I refuse to say Ellison is “innocent” because we don’t know, but it’s very questionable to conclude that he’s “guilty”. I don’t know how a three team panel with no corroboration can come to a reasonable conclusion, and there isn’t enough here to charge Ellison. For me personally, this is grounds to seriously protest Indiana Univerisity, not out of anger, but so that they can get a more refined process because I wouldn’t feel comfortable sending a Son OR Daughter into an environment where there is this shaky of a process. Allen’s response to the team would also be interesting to know. If it’s along the lines of what CKW said “don’t get accussed!” Then I’d be disturbed. The “only 2-10%” of claims is false logic doesn’t cut it either. You still need a solid process because we’ve decided just as a standard that you should probably prove someone is guilty before you punish them, and if this were any other crime we wouldn’t use this logic. Assume Ellison accused a female athlete of stealing his xbox. With no additional witnesses or tangible evidence. Then imagine the school suspending the female athlete and ordering her to pay back Ellison for the damages. We’d all say that’s absurd, although few people report a false theft. Sexual assault is a more serious crime than theft, but if anything that highlights that we should take these allegations more seriously since they can tarnish an individuals reputation. And I think that it should be a cause for pause if Indiana can’t determine a better process. I don’t see any conversations going in internally at Indiana about “how can we fix this process”. If people don’t seriously speak out this will indefinitely be their process and then “you better not get accussed!”. It’s obviously a much bigger issue than winning football games. I don’t care if Ellison was a 6th string walk on. This process is fishy. And I think the team will be fine without Ellison, so it goes way beyond winning games. This doesn’t seem like a healthy culture or process whatsoever.
snowling
Hall of Famer
Pathetic of our spineless leaders. Shame on IU
Do you have knowledge of the evidence that was presented to the panel? Did you participate in the proceedings in some way?
Outside observers too often rush to judgment. But rushing to exonerate, without knowing much/anything about what happened, is also inappropriate. Unless you have first-hand knowledge of what happened, referring to IU's leaders as "spineless" is pretty reckless - - and irresponsible.
If there wasn’t enough evidence for the Bloomington PD to charge him, there wasn’t enough to do what they did. End of story
It should be noted that his suspension was upheld. Also he was permanently dismissed from the football team. That would be on CTA. Do you think this is spineless?
Wrong. Based on this logic one should not be able to suspended from the university without some sort of parallel conviction in a court of law.
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Better hope some crazy woman doesn’t decide to accuse you of something someday
Some people are incapable of putting themselves in the shoes of the falsely accused. They naively believe that as long as you do nothing wrong you don't have to worry about being accused. Sadly, Ellison is another in a long list of men whose lives have been ruined by campus kangaroo courts.
Better hope some crazy lady isn’t mad at you one day, you’ll sing a different tune
If there is no corroboration, and if Bloomington PD couldn’t pick up the case, then CTA is spineless. There is certainly a generation gap in terms of how these cases are handled. I think that older men and men in CTA’s age gap have seen the system abuse women and ignore them, so they either overcorrect for how the system used to be, or they’re scared to get fired. Men my age can’t fathom how someone could be kicked out of school with a weak fact pattern, but we didn’t grow up in the 80’s and have a different life experience. However, these are “if’s”. As others have stated, if there were additional details then we can’t say definitively that CTA is spineless, AND that’s why I refuse to say Ellison is guilty of innocent. But often times these cases do indeed have weak evidence, and schools have shown a bias towards the females side in these situations, or they’ve been on the other extreme and have completely ignored the females. It’s difficult to argue that this process is healthy in any way. Kicking guys out of school based on weak fact patterns doesn’t solve rape. Kicking guys out of school based on weak fact patterns doesn’t make anyone safer. And I think that any man who allows that to happen should be fired, the same way that I think that any man who hides information like Art Briles should be fired. I don’t think either type of man should have the privilege of guiding young men. These are “if’s”, but we likely won’t get any more details due to privacy regulations. And this is where we need to hear Ellisons side of the story, and more from the accuser if she wants to share more, although she has shared some details.
And I like CTA. This isn’t a case of me “wanting” him to get fired. I think that he can coach and lead IU to success. But some things are bigger than football, and this is one in which it would be important to know if CTA was spineless, or if he had grounds to believe Ellison committed this crime. That’s important enough that it should be followed up, and exactly what happened needs to be noted. I think that’s very relevant to IU football because this issue will likely come up again.
And I like CTA. This isn’t a case of me “wanting” him to get fired. I think that he can coach and lead IU to success. But some things are bigger than football, and this is one in which it would be important to know if CTA was spineless, or if he had grounds to believe Ellison committed this crime. That’s important enough that it should be followed up, and exactly what happened needs to be noted. I think that’s very relevant to IU football because this issue will likely come up again.
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Schools live in a different bubble than normal people. Sadly with schools like MSU completely burying assault issues and getting away with it, admins like IUs think they are progressively addressing issue. In reality, they are just creating another set of unintended consequences where both sides run greater risk of injustice.
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