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More evidence against Covid-19 Herd Immunity

Madrid (CNN)Spain's large-scale study on the coronavirus indicates just 5% of its population has developed antibodies, strengthening evidence that a so-called herd immunity to Covid-19 is "unachievable," the medical journal the Lancet reported on Monday.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/health/spain-coronavirus-antibody-study-lancet-intl/index.html

It's even more discouraging in Sweden where they specifically targeted trying to achieve herd immunity. They figured they'd need about 80%, but in Stockholm, they've only reached about 7%. And that was with basically leaving the economy intact...
 
It's even more discouraging in Sweden where they specifically targeted trying to achieve herd immunity. They figured they'd need about 80%, but in Stockholm, they've only reached about 7%. And that was with basically leaving the economy intact...
Sweden’s economy was not left intact. Not even close. They shut down high schools and universities, put restrictions on restaurants and bars, etc. Their GDP is projected to drop significantly (10%+ I think). It’s a myth that Sweden just carried on as normal.
 
Bad phrasing on my part. I meant to say they basically left businesses open and didn't really enact a "lockdown"...
Correct. It was similar to what some states in the US did. But people in Sweden still stayed home, etc. Also my 10%+ GDP drop was an old number. Latest figures look better but still far from good.
 
I find it incredible some people are stilling hanging on this "herd immunity" thing. It's not a viable strategy for dealing with an epidemic. It never was.

"Herd immunity" is a concept in the world of vaccines, referring to the share of the population that need to be immunized against a disease in order to stop the disease from spreading in that community.

Without a vaccine, "herd immunity" is nothing more than the end state after the epidemic has run its course.
 
I find it incredible some people are stilling hanging on this "herd immunity" thing. It's not a viable strategy for dealing with an epidemic. It never was.

"Herd immunity" is a concept in the world of vaccines, referring to the share of the population that need to be immunized against a disease in order to stop the disease from spreading in that community.

Without a vaccine, "herd immunity" is nothing more than the end state after the epidemic has run its course.

nice job of 100% contradicting your 1st paragraph with your last.

and again, the linked article in the OP did not show what the tread title claimed it did.

what it showed, was that you don't have immunity until you contract the virus, (or with an effective vaccine when/if that occurs), and to date and with distancing and lock downs, so far not near enough have already been infected to approach herd immunity..

with youngers many places returning to normal society, will be interesting to see how much different the stats are 3 or 6 or 12 months from now.

when/if a safe vaccine is developed and proven safe even for olders, it will be interesting to see what percent of the population are already as immune as they're going to get by that point.

or if the vaccine becomes a booster shot for those who have already had it.

or how many, if any, have had it more than once at that point.
 
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I find it incredible some people are stilling hanging on this "herd immunity" thing. It's not a viable strategy for dealing with an epidemic. It never was.

"Herd immunity" is a concept in the world of vaccines, referring to the share of the population that need to be immunized against a disease in order to stop the disease from spreading in that community.

Without a vaccine, "herd immunity" is nothing more than the end state after the epidemic has run its course.

If antibodies don’t last long, how does a virus “run its course”? The assumption on “run its course” is antibodies for the specific strain generated by the host are sustained, evidence is building that the resistance window is short (weeks vs months). So the strain could conceivably never “run it’s course” naturally as people could reacquire the same strain (I think this needs to be verified/documented, my understanding is the studies are looking at antibody levels and assuming as a result the virus could be reacquired vs documented cases proving it). If it does play out that way, we need to hope the vaccine(s) are highly effective.

Per the article below, flu antibodies can last a long time, it is the various strains that cause repeated sickness in the same season. Also the flu itself provides stronger antibodies than the vaccine, which might be the inverse for Covid.

https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/10/28/does-the-flu-provide-better-immunity-than-a-flu-shot/
 
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If antibodies don’t last long, how does a virus “run its course”? The assumption on “run its course” is antibodies for the specific strain generated by the host are sustained, evidence is building that the resistance window is short (weeks vs months). So the strain could conceivably never “run it’s course” naturally as people could reacquire the same strain (I think this needs to be verified/documented, my understanding is the studies are looking at antibody levels and assuming as a result the virus could be reacquired vs documented cases proving it). If it does play out that way, we need to hope the vaccine(s) are highly effective.

Per the article below, flu antibodies can last a long time, it is the various strains that cause repeated sickness in the same season. Also the flu itself provides stronger antibodies than the vaccine, which might be the inverse for Covid.

https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/10/28/does-the-flu-provide-better-immunity-than-a-flu-shot/

I personally know two people that had symptoms, got tested, tested positive, quarantined for multiple weeks, one of them had severe symptoms and needed to be hospitalized, they both eventually tested negative twice (required to return to work), and they both recently tested positive again. Hospitalized one isn’t doing great.

It isn’t going anywhere any time soon. I’m more interested in good, fully vetted, treatments at this point. Not sure vaccines are realistic or will even be effective.
 
I personally know two people that had symptoms, got tested, tested positive, quarantined for multiple weeks, one of them had severe symptoms and needed to be hospitalized, they both eventually tested negative twice (required to return to work), and they both recently tested positive again. Hospitalized one isn’t doing great.

It isn’t going anywhere any time soon. I’m more interested in good, fully vetted, treatments at this point. Not sure vaccines are realistic or will even be effective.

i too have greater hope for an effective treatment.

that said, when were they diagnosed positive the first time?
 
I saw a study German study that said 25% of the people who contract this virus and recover will have either permanent health problems (heart, lungs, liver, etc.) or they will spend years recovering.

Herd immunity ain't happening with this virus. I don't believe a vaccine will be happening anytime soon either.
 
I saw a study German study that said 25% of the people who contract this virus and recover will have either permanent health problems (heart, lungs, liver, etc.) or they will spend years recovering.

Herd immunity ain't happening with this virus. I don't believe a vaccine will be happening anytime soon either.
Right. All the evidence people need to see is out there. They shut down the country. Watch what is done, not what they tell you.
 
Right. All the evidence people need to see is out there. They shut down the country. Watch what is done, not what they tell you.

I'm in South Florida. Things are shutting back down here FAST.

My buddy owns the Funky Buddha brewery in Oakland Park (basically part of Fort Lauderdale).

In June they reopened for dine in, bar patrons, etc.

Today they announced they are back to being takeout only.

Most other businesses are following suit.
 
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I'm in South Florida. Things are shutting back down here FAST.

My buddy owns the Funky Buddha brewery in Oakland Park (basically part of Fort Lauderdale).

In June they reopened for dine in, bar patrons, etc.

Today they announced they are back to being takeout only.

Most other businesses are following suit.
Good luck brother.
 
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i too have greater hope for an effective treatment.

that said, when were they diagnosed positive the first time?

April ish. It doesn’t conclusively prove anything to me at this point. Either of the tests could have been wrong. Though with one of the people, each positive test had been accompanied by severe symptoms. Hard to argue those tests. But his two negative tests could have been faulty? Maybe the virus never really left his body, and he was reintroduced to it and it “woke it up”.

I’m starting to come around to the possibility that there may not ever be a “cure” for it. And once you get it, you have it. Similar to HIV. And your reactions throughout your life after that will be based off things “aggravating, activating” it. Also wondering if there isn’t something to the Russian roulette theory that your reaction to it depends on which “spike or spikes” are the ones that make the attachment. That’s why there are so many seemingly healthy people getting very sick and dying.

Who knows? No one is the answer to that question.
 
same vets died that way but Plax hates America and the American flag

Interesting you love vets but support a mook who dodged the draft 5 times with fake bone spurs, attacked a POW who spent years in a North Vietnamese prison (ironically, the same war Bone Spurs dodged), attacked Gold Star families and attacked highly regarded American generals (who Bone Spurs claimed to know more than).

Yeah, you love vets and the flag. Sure you do. Go cry more about Confederate statues of losers who led people to attack and kill soldiers carrying the American flag.
 
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Interesting you love vets but support a mook who dodged the draft 5 times with fake bone spurs, attacked a POW who spent years in a North Vietnamese prison (ironically, the same war Bone Spurs dodged), attacked Gold Star families and attacked highly regarded American generals (who Bone Spurs claimed to know more than).

Yeah, you love vets and the flag. Sure you do. Go cry more about Confederate statues of losers who led people to attack and kill soldiers carrying the American flag.
Man do I wish we had President McCain right now.
 
Interesting you love vets but support a mook who dodged the draft 5 times with fake bone spurs, attacked a POW who spent years in a North Vietnamese prison (ironically, the same war Bone Spurs dodged), attacked Gold Star families and attacked highly regarded American generals (who Bone Spurs claimed to know more than).

Yeah, you love vets and the flag. Sure you do. Go cry more about Confederate statues of losers who led people to attack and kill soldiers carrying the American flag.
Obama?
 
Over Trump? Are you serious?
You don’t have to play if you don’t want, but if so...
What do you think Trump is doing that is helping? I’m not judging. I’m curious. And I’m leaving open the possibility that I’m clueless. It’s often so.
 
And to answer your question; I would’ve been just fine if McCain had won. He would have helped this country. I was undecided on that election.
 
Over Trump? Are you serious?
You don’t have to play if you don’t want, but if so...
What do you think Trump is doing that is helping? I’m not judging. I’m curious. And I’m leaving open the possibility that I’m clueless. It’s often so.
Obama's hatred for the military and the police officers was unbearable
 
Obama's hatred for the military and the police officers was unbearable
I want a President who defends the police. But when they’re killing people on camera, it pins them in a corner. They call it politics for a reason.
 
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Make China Great Again

China handed Bone Spurs his ass and then he had to pay the farmers 28 billion in socialist welfare.

Afterwards, I’m sure you moronically complained about socialism, not realizing what lard ass was doing to try and keep the farmer vote.

Spoiler alert: get ready to mourn Bone Spurs the one termer.
 
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China handed Bone Spurs his ass and then he had to pay the farmers 28 billion in socialist welfare.

Afterwards, I’m sure you moronically complained about socialism, not realizing what lard ass was doing to try and keep the farmer vote.

Spoiler alert: get ready to mourn Bone Spurs the one termer.
2020 Joe Biden!
 
You believe that?
Well it was reported multiple places with multiple sources and England confirmed. So yes, I generally believe things that have been proven to be true. Notice even Trump hasn’t denied it.
 
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