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More Censorship

Wedding cakes are on their menu. They refused to make one for a non-traditional couple.

Masterpiece's owner Jack Phillips, who is a Christian, declined their cake request, informing the couple that he did not create wedding cakes for marriages of gay couples owing to his Christian religious beliefs, although the couple could purchase other baked goods in the store.

If you don't want to sell wedding cakes for everyone having a wedding then you shouldn't be in the business of making wedding cakes. I wouldn't have issue if they took wedding cakes off their menu.

So no, still wacko.
If I remember correctly, this isn’t quite right.

They were willing to sell the couple any cake in the store, they just weren’t willing to decorate it in the way the couple wanted.
 
If I remember correctly, this isn’t quite right.

They were willing to sell the couple any cake in the store, they just weren’t willing to decorate it in the way the couple wanted.

Every article I can find has statements from him saying he refuses to bake a cake for a gay wedding. Doesn't say anything about decoration.

“This cake is a specific cake, a wedding cake is an inherently religious event and the cake is definitely a specific message,” Phillips said, explaining his objection to making the wedding cake for the same-sex wedding.

That reads to me that he claims that it being a wedding cake is a message. I don't think they were trying to write a gay message or image on the wedding cake, such as saying "Gay Love" on it. Do very many people actually try to write words on a wedding cake?

Most wedding cakes are made to order from my experience so that would mean he won't sell them a wedding cake unless he had a generic one on the shelf (which is unlikely)
 
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Every article I can find has statements from him saying he refuses to bake a cake for a gay wedding. Doesn't say anything about decoration.

“This cake is a specific cake, a wedding cake is an inherently religious event and the cake is definitely a specific message,” Phillips said, explaining his objection to making the wedding cake for the same-sex wedding.

That reads to me that he claims that it being a wedding cake is a message. I don't think they were trying to write a gay message or image on the wedding cake, such as saying "Gay Love" on it. Do very many people actually try to write words on a wedding cake?

Most wedding cakes are made to order from my experience so that would mean he won't sell them a wedding cake unless he had a generic one on the shelf (which is unlikely)
You may be right and I’m far to lazy to look it up.........
 
Also, 😂 at telling me to turn down my outrage level.

Apparently, YOU haven’t read the thread. I don’t care what Amazon does. I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy? Hypocrisy might apply if "cancel culture" really were somehow an invention of the Left. However, HISTORY tells us otherwise...

The "hypocrisy" is the people who had no problem with Country Radio stations and DJs joining together and boycotting the playing of Dixie Chick albums. If "private censorship" exists as some want to claim then THIS is Censorship because NO radio stations were playing any Chick albums to the Chicks target market- Country music...

On the other hand, Amazon is making a decision for THEIR Marketplace space, and is not trying to keep anyone from READING the book or being able to purchase it from ANYONE else. THAT is NOT Censorship, just like Joe Blow's Christian bookstore deciding to refuse to carry what it deems objectionable material is also NOT censorship.

Now for the yabuuttt crowd... Isn't that basically your way of deflecting from examining your own hypocrisy? I mean the policy had to originate SOMEWHERE,and I remember consumer boycotts basically originating as early as the 60s against people like Jim Morrison and The Beatles. In other words from folks on the RIGHT of the political spectrum...

Along with examples like those and what happened to the Chicks, I think it would be pretty hard for any of you to REALISTICALLY try and claim "cancel culture" is an invention of the Left. Anybody remember anyone on the Left in 1960-66 influential enough to "cancel" anyone, as relates to the population as a whole?

Yet the usual suspects seem to want to pretend they are only reflecting both sides, to try and hide their hypocritical claims that the Left is somehow to blame for engaging in the same sort of mass-market influence/ boycotts that the Right in this country wrote the book on...I guess that sort of twisted logical fallacy will work if you are posting to appeal to VanPastor Man or Mas... Congrats???
 
Hypocrisy? Hypocrisy might apply if "cancel culture" really were somehow an invention of the Left. However, HISTORY tells us otherwise...

The "hypocrisy" is the people who had no problem with Country Radio stations and DJs joining together and boycotting the playing of Dixie Chick albums. If "private censorship" exists as some want to claim then THIS is Censorship because NO radio stations were playing any Chick albums to the Chicks target market- Country music...

On the other hand, Amazon is making a decision for THEIR Marketplace space, and is not trying to keep anyone from READING the book or being able to purchase it from ANYONE else. THAT is NOT Censorship, just like Joe Blow's Christian bookstore deciding to refuse to carry what it deems objectionable material is also NOT censorship.

Now for the yabuuttt crowd... Isn't that basically your way of deflecting from examining your own hypocrisy? I mean the policy had to originate SOMEWHERE,and I remember consumer boycotts basically originating as early as the 60s against people like Jim Morrison and The Beatles. In other words from folks on the RIGHT of the political spectrum...

Along with examples like those and what happened to the Chicks, I think it would be pretty hard for any of you to REALISTICALLY try and claim "cancel culture" is an invention of the Left. Anybody remember anyone on the Left in 1960-66 influential enough to "cancel" anyone, as relates to the population as a whole?

Yet the usual suspects seem to want to pretend they are only reflecting both sides, to try and hide their hypocritical claims that the Left is somehow to blame for engaging in the same sort of mass-market influence/ boycotts that the Right in this country wrote the book on...I guess that sort of twisted logical fallacy will work if you are posting to appeal to VanPastor Man or Mas... Congrats???
you don't know what censorship means. They are engaging in private censorship. That other outlets are still selling the book is immaterial and doesn't bear on the fact that amazon is engaging in censorship.

Censorship, the suppression of words, images, or ideas that are "offensive," happens whenever some people succeed in imposing their personal political or moral values on others. Censorship can be carried out by the government as well as private pressure groups. Censorship by the government is unconstitutional.

“We don’t sell certain content including content that we determine is hate speech, promotes the abuse or sexual exploitation of children, contains pornography, glorifies rape or pedophilia, advocates terrorism, or other material we deem inappropriate or offensive.”

An election to stop selling that book is an expression of amazon’s personal, political, or moral values being imposed on others. and i fully support amazon's right to do so; but it's still censorship.
 
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So every bookstore that doesn't carry every book ever written on their shelves is committing censorship?

I recall going to blockbuster and they didn't always have the movie I'm looking for or a placeholder on theirs shelves for the movie. Are they censoring?
 
So every bookstore that doesn't carry every book ever written on their shelves is committing censorship?

I recall going to blockbuster and they didn't always have the movie I'm looking for or a placeholder on theirs shelves for the movie. Are they censoring?
dumb
 
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you don't know what censorship means. They are engaging in private censorship. That other outlets are still selling the book is immaterial and doesn't bear on the fact that amazon is engaging in censorship.

Censorship, the suppression of words, images, or ideas that are "offensive," happens whenever some people succeed in imposing their personal political or moral values on others. Censorship can be carried out by the government as well as private pressure groups. Censorship by the government is unconstitutional.

“We don’t sell certain content including content that we determine is hate speech, promotes the abuse or sexual exploitation of children, contains pornography, glorifies rape or pedophilia, advocates terrorism, or other material we deem inappropriate or offensive.”

An election to stop selling that book is an expression of amazon’s personal, political, or moral values being imposed on others. and i fully support amazon's right to do so; but it's still censorship.

So I should be able to go to Holy Roller Book Emporium and buy a copy of The Communist Manifesto or The Quran and if they refuse to sell it to me they are engaging in "Censorship"?

I mean your definition of "censorship" fits those types of people to a "T"...

"Censorship, the suppression of words, images, or ideas that are "offensive," happens whenever some people succeed in imposing their personal political or moral values on others."

Now exactly why is it Censorship when it pertains to Amazon, but not to the Holy Roller Book Emporium? Exactly who would you say is more involved in "trying to impose their moral values" on others in this country than Religious Zealots?

No offense, but a CONSISTENT position would be not caring whether Amazon sells this book or whether Holy Rollers sells the works of Marx. Neither example bothers me, because (unlike the Nazis) neither entity is attempting to impose a BAN on either work.

They are NOT attempting to keep people from READING the books in question.
Rather they are making a calculation that they prefer not to include them in their marketplace.

For myself, I'd likely go to a used bookstore anyway, because I'm too cheap to buy from either Amazon or a local retailer... But CONSISTENCY would seem to be finding the Christian bookstore as guilty of censorship as some of you try to claim Amazon is...
 
So I should be able to go to Holy Roller Book Emporium and buy a copy of The Communist Manifesto or The Quran and if they refuse to sell it to me they are engaging in "Censorship"?

I mean your definition of "censorship" fits those types of people to a "T"...

"Censorship, the suppression of words, images, or ideas that are "offensive," happens whenever some people succeed in imposing their personal political or moral values on others."

Now exactly why is it Censorship when it pertains to Amazon, but not to the Holy Roller Book Emporium? Exactly who would you say is more involved in "trying to impose their moral values" on others in this country than Religious Zealots?

No offense, but a CONSISTENT position would be not caring whether Amazon sells this book or whether Holy Rollers sells the works of Marx. Neither example bothers me, because (unlike the Nazis) neither entity is attempting to impose a BAN on either work.

They are NOT attempting to keep people from READING the books in question.
Rather they are making a calculation that they prefer not to include them in their marketplace.

For myself, I'd likely go to a used bookstore anyway, because I'm too cheap to buy from either Amazon or a local retailer... But CONSISTENCY would seem to be finding the Christian bookstore as guilty of censorship as some of you try to claim Amazon is...
I love it. Bookstores and antiquarian books stores are dying and desperately need more people like you. If the holy roller bookstore refuses to sell the communist manifesto because of their political and moral values that they wish to impose on you it is censorship. that they aren't actively picketing other stores to stop selling it or actively trying to limit your ability to buy it elsewhere is of no moment.
 
All this talk about buying books on Amazon makes me miss brick and mortar bookstores (smaller ones mostly, I still visit Barnes and Noble as well).

Also, Blockbuster. God I used to wander around for an hour looking for movies (possibly inebriated - on a Tuesday) many times in my early to mid twenties.

Side note - apparently they cancelled my membership at some point b/c I (allegedly) owed them $108 for late fees. I held out and now they're out of business. I won.
 
All this talk about buying books on Amazon makes me miss brick and mortar bookstores (smaller ones mostly, I still visit Barnes and Noble as well).

Also, Blockbuster. God I used to wander around for an hour looking for movies (possibly inebriated - on a Tuesday) many times in my early to mid twenties.

Side note - apparently they cancelled my membership at some point b/c I (allegedly) owed them $108 for late fees. I held out and now they're out of business. I won.
stickin it to the man! agreed on all fronts. love bookstores. and honestly it's so weird but i have a ten year old. there's no toy stores!
 
there's no toy stores!

Does she have a screen/phone yet b/c once that happens toys are moot unless it's gaming consoles. It's hilarious but you go to the LEGO store and it's all 30-50 year old dudes. no kids.
 
All this talk about buying books on Amazon makes me miss brick and mortar bookstores (smaller ones mostly, I still visit Barnes and Noble as well).
That could be a good thread on it's own. Favorite Bookstore? Right before covid, we went to Literati in Ann Arbor...very nice. Hyde Bros in the fort is a must visit too.
 
Does she have a screen/phone yet b/c once that happens toys are moot unless it's gaming consoles. It's hilarious but you go to the LEGO store and it's all 30-50 year old dudes. no kids.
oh yeah. so sad and true. xbox/tv/phone. and once in a while i have to stop her mid story because she doesn't know it but she's talking like these kids that make tik tok videos and i'm the audience. it's awful
 
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That could be a good thread on it's own. Favorite Bookstore? Right before covid, we went to Literati in Ann Arbor...very nice. Hyde Bros in the fort is a must visit too.
Must be a college town thing. I'm old but I remember Morgensterns in Bloomington and Caveat Emptor (I think that was the name) and others. I believe Morgensterns (per the internet and it never lies) is making a comeback. Indy has shit for bookstores (sans B&N). Independents are dead save the rare book sellers.

I gotta admit, a Kindle is a useful tool but sucks for anything involving a map/illustrations. Hell, try reading House of Leaves on a Kindle. hilarious.
 
oh yeah. so sad and true. xbox/tv/phone. and once in a while i have to stop her mid story because she doesn't know it but she's talking like these kids that make tik tok videos and i'm the audience. it's awful
Don't worry. It gets worse.
 
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Must be a college town thing. I'm old but I remember Morgensterns in Bloomington and Caveat Emptor (I think that was the name) and others. I believe Morgensterns (per the internet and it never lies) is making a comeback. Indy has shit for bookstores (sans B&N). Independents are dead save the rare book sellers.

I gotta admit, a Kindle is a useful tool but sucks for anything involving a map/illustrations. Hell, try reading House of Leaves on a Kindle. hilarious.
Morgenstern's is coming back, we drove by over the weekend and it does not look close.
 
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Must be a college town thing. I'm old but I remember Morgensterns in Bloomington and Caveat Emptor (I think that was the name) and others. I believe Morgensterns (per the internet and it never lies) is making a comeback. Indy has shit for bookstores (sans B&N). Independents are dead save the rare book sellers.
I used to drop $100 at a time at Howard's. Then I got a computer. Joie went broke a year later.
 
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So every bookstore that doesn't carry every book ever written on their shelves is committing censorship?

I recall going to blockbuster and they didn't always have the movie I'm looking for or a placeholder on theirs shelves for the movie. Are they censoring?
If they are making that choice based on objectionable content, yes. If its because it won’t sell, no.
 
Must be a college town thing. I'm old but I remember Morgensterns in Bloomington and Caveat Emptor (I think that was the name) and others. I believe Morgensterns (per the internet and it never lies) is making a comeback. Indy has shit for bookstores (sans B&N). Independents are dead save the rare book sellers.

I gotta admit, a Kindle is a useful tool but sucks for anything involving a map/illustrations. Hell, try reading House of Leaves on a Kindle. hilarious.

The old Book Nook in Bloomington, on Kirkwood, just before Indiana, was the best bookstore ever.
 
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Must be a college town thing. I'm old but I remember Morgensterns in Bloomington and Caveat Emptor (I think that was the name) and others. I believe Morgensterns (per the internet and it never lies) is making a comeback. Indy has shit for bookstores (sans B&N). Independents are dead save the rare book sellers.

I gotta admit, a Kindle is a useful tool but sucks for anything involving a map/illustrations. Hell, try reading House of Leaves on a Kindle. hilarious.
Agreed on all fronts. It’s a shame. I used to read a book a week. For years. I watched all sports too. Now I never read. I watch Netflix, prime etc. only watch soccer. Times have changed. I wonder if I’m an exception or if there’s been a decline in readers.

But yes the independents are toast. And have been for a while. Even Larry McMurtry sold his bookstores and gave up his dream of creating a “book town” five or so years ago.

The dumbing down of America
 
Agreed on all fronts. It’s a shame. I used to read a book a week. For years. I watched all sports too. Now I never read. I watch Netflix, prime etc. only watch soccer. Times have changed. I wonder if I’m an exception or if there’s been a decline in readers.

But yes the independents are toast. And have been for a while. Even Larry McMurtry sold his bookstores and gave up his dream of creating a “book town” five or so years ago.

The dumbing down of America
On the book thing, nobody leaves me alone in my own house. Or in bed, the wife will just start talking and get pissed when i'm not listening. So netflix and prime it is. She does watch soccer and F1. So there's that.
 
On the book thing, nobody leaves me alone in my own house. Or in bed, the wife will just start talking and get pissed when i'm not listening. So netflix and prime it is. She does watch soccer and F1. So there's that.
Yeah that’s a great point. Reading coincided with my single days
 
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The old Book Nook in Bloomington, on Kirkwood, just before Indiana, was the best bookstore ever.

I remember the Book Nook. That goes back decades.

No bookstore discussion would be complete without a mention of the Tattered Cover in Denver. High rents and Amazon has forced it to down size, but now has two smaller locations plus a newsstand with some books at the train station. I could spend an half day easy in the original Tattered Cover.

Ironically, Amazon opened a brick and mortar book store near the original Tattered Cover location. I was there one time, took me about 20 minutes to cover it. Imagine a stand-alone Walmart bookstore and you'll get the picture.
 
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I remember the Book Nook. That goes back decades.

No bookstore discussion would be complete without a mention of the Tattered Cover in Denver. High rents and Amazon has forced it to down size, but now has two smaller locations plus a newsstand with some books at the train station. I could spend an half day easy in the original Tattered Cover.

Ironically, Amazon opened a brick and mortar book store near the original Tattered Cover location. I was there one time, took me about 20 minutes to cover it. Imagine a stand-alone Walmart bookstore and you'll get the picture.

And right around the corner was The Gables. . .
 
Wasn't that Howard's before? Or was Howard's up the street a couple doors?

I know Howard's daughter well and know the history of the store but am drawing a blank on the original location.
yeah marv corrected me. i'm at a loss as to where/what book nook was - i was thinking of the book corner
 
Thinking about it, you are right. When radio stations refused to air Dixie Chicks songs, that was censorship. Or the people way back when protesting the cinema showing Life of Brian. Would the people that boycotted Disney because the allowed same sex employee benefits count?

In other words, some are not mad that cancel culture exists, they are mad liberals got better at it.

Amazon should sell the book. I did not see a change.org petition. It seems someone somewhere upset should have created one. Or maybe people just want the issue and do not care about the book.
Sometimes that word doesn't matter, depending on .... well marketing or something.
6ec36223ff3f95675cdfecda484a74db_XL.jpg
 
Okay, then Howard's was a.... wait, I think Howard's was over on College... maybe a door or two up from where the Tap is now...
I think so.

Looking it up, circa 1970 it started in the building where Uptown is, then it moved over by The Tap's location before its final location.
 
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