Minimum Wage

Courtsensetwo

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Nobody ever wants to discuss the cost of care. Trust me, I've tried for years on here. Much easier to blame evil insurance companies rather than have to think long and hard about why costs are so high.
Yep.

Mark Cuban put it well IMO when he said:

"the only way to reduce the cost of healthcare is to reduce the cost of healthcare"
 
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Courtsensetwo

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if you saw an article, it must be true.

they-write-stories-impossible-to-disprove-photo-u1

That is not an alien, that is actually Chelsie
 
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Feudal system housing. Jesus H Christ... you belong in an institution.... govt run. Enjoy your medicaid nursing home. I hear they are lovely.
He's one of a very few I have on ignore (most are troll accounts that don't appear anymore). Is he still talking about moneyed interests?
 

mcmurtry66

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Nobody ever wants to discuss the cost of care. Trust me, I've tried for years on here. Much easier to blame evil insurance companies rather than have to think long and hard about why costs are so high.
I don't know the answer as to why they are so much more, from pills to scans to surgeries. What I've read largely points to doctors' salaries and admin. Admin might be able to become leaner and meaner but if it's true about salaries (at least as it relates to other nations) there are myriad connected parts that would prove difficult to fix. Med schools would have to be cheaper. More grants maybe. Would residencies have to be reviewed with an eye toward shortening same. Lawyers are a miserable lot but I have a buddy who is an ER doctor at our biggest hospital. I'm in awe of the hell he went through to become an ER doctor and the miserable on call hell he still goes through. People aren't going to go through all those years of lost income/benefits, all those years of school/ school tuition/residency/all nighters; and the incredible stress of that gig for $90k a year. So what gives?
 

twenty02

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I don't know the answer as to why they are so much more, from pills to scans to surgeries. What I've read largely points to doctors' salaries and admin. Admin might be able to become leaner and meaner but if it's true about salaries (at least as it relates to other nations) there are myriad connected parts that would prove difficult to fix. Med schools would have to be cheaper. More grants maybe. Would residencies have to be reviewed with an eye toward shortening same. Lawyers are a miserable lot but I have a buddy who is an ER doctor at our biggest hospital. I'm in awe of the hell he went through to become an ER doctor and the miserable on call hell he still goes through. People aren't going to go through all those years of lost income/benefits, all those years of school/residency/all nighters; and the incredible stress of that gig for $90k a year. So what gives?


I've talked before about the doctor lobby, which is quite powerful. And the hard limits they put on amount of seats available in med schools.

Add to that hospital arms races that have many hospitals resembling palaces. Maternity suites on par with 4 star hotels. It's a massive industry that's been created on the provider side.... and a very powerful constituency that exists in basically every congressional district.
 

jet812

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if you saw an article, it must be true.


outrageous-headlines.jpg



they-write-stories-impossible-to-disprove-photo-u1



and yes, nobody told you that there would be math involved, but when 34 mil, (pre covid number), live below the poverty level in the US, getting only 1.5 mil out of poverty doesn't exactly solve the problem.

then the real math problems arise, especially for someone staunchly opposed to universal healthcare.

average cost of a 1 br apt in US, $1621 mo.

average cost of a single person health plan is $462 mo, and a family health plan in the US is $1152 mo.

electric plus water plus internet maybe another $200 - $300 mo depending on locale.

$10 hr is $1700 gross a month for someone getting 40 hrs every week.

and we haven't addressed transportation or food or anything else yet, let alone kids.

do you not see the math issues yet?

that said, if you don't like the US cost of living numbers, start with the beyond absurd cost of housing in a feudal economy, and the cost of healthcare in a non Medicare for all universal healthcare country.
You left out alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, televisions, & cell phone plans
 

hookyIU1990

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Add to that hospital arms races that have many hospitals resembling palaces. Maternity suites on par with 4 star hotels. It's a massive industry that's been created on the provider side.... and a very powerful constituency that exists in basically every congressional district.
When people aren't spending their own money, that's what happens. It's really no different than the public university systems and cheap money from federal student loans. If the insurance/student loan money is going to pay for it, why not demand better amenities? Hospitals and universities are happy to invest since the 3rd party money raises the floor.

When people are disconnected from the actual cost of something, most really don't care as long as they can get what the perceive as what they're entitled to, then transfer the negatives and fault to a third party.

I know there are more factors involved, but I believe that's the basic underpinning of the hospital arms race.
 

larsIU

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I've talked before about the doctor lobby, which is quite powerful. And the hard limits they put on amount of seats available in med schools.

Add to that hospital arms races that have many hospitals resembling palaces. Maternity suites on par with 4 star hotels. It's a massive industry that's been created on the provider side.... and a very powerful constituency that exists in basically every congressional district.
I remember listening to a podcast or reading an article (can't remember and can't find it now) discussing how we ended up with employer provided health insurance. There were the usual reasons around benefits/perks being given to sweeten the offers to potential hires but they went deeper to discuss Truman's involvement. He wanted universal coverage and pushed very hard for it. As I recall the #1 lobby against it was the AMA and other doctor's organizations. I believe the IRS soon after made premiums paid by companies tax deductible and this effectively allowed 3rd party payers to be the norm.

It does look like doctors, on average, make far less in Europe than they do in the US. Their annual education cost is also much lower. See article below. It does appear doctors everywhere spend an inordinate amount of time on administrative activities as well. I don't know what the norm should be, I'm not a doctor. It will be hard to overcome the doctor lobby if they're going to have to take a pay cut and receive nothing in return. They will probably need some incentive to do so which will most likely have to be tied to their education costs.

Agree with nearly everyone here that the administrative costs in the US are too high. Hospitals that look like a 4 star hotel seem silly when you step back and think about it.

https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2019-international-compensation-report-6011814#10
 

i'vegotwinners

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I remember listening to a podcast or reading an article (can't remember and can't find it now) discussing how we ended up with employer provided health insurance. There were the usual reasons around benefits/perks being given to sweeten the offers to potential hires but they went deeper to discuss Truman's involvement. He wanted universal coverage and pushed very hard for it. As I recall the #1 lobby against it was the AMA and other doctor's organizations. I believe the IRS soon after made premiums paid by companies tax deductible and this effectively allowed 3rd party payers to be the norm.

It does look like doctors, on average, make far less in Europe than they do in the US. Their annual education cost is also much lower. See article below. It does appear doctors everywhere spend an inordinate amount of time on administrative activities as well. I don't know what the norm should be, I'm not a doctor. It will be hard to overcome the doctor lobby if they're going to have to take a pay cut and receive nothing in return. They will probably need some incentive to do so which will most likely have to be tied to their education costs.

Agree with nearly everyone here that the administrative costs in the US are too high. Hospitals that look like a 4 star hotel seem silly when you step back and think about it.

https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2019-international-compensation-report-6011814#10

pretty sure employer provided health plans proliferated during WW II, when govt mandated wage controls on workers made for workers to seek a workaround from the govt wage controls, and health insurance became a vehicle of choice as that workaround.

it was never done because employers as gatekeepers of health coverage was thought to be a good thing.

on a side note, back in the 1960s as a kid i remember hearing that the AMA was the most powerful union in the country.

can't recall where or from who i heard it, just remember hearing it.
 

larsIU

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pretty sure employer provided health plans proliferated during WW II, when govt mandated wage controls on workers made for workers to seek a workaround from the govt wage controls, and health insurance became a vehicle of choice as that workaround.

it was never done because employers as gatekeepers of health coverage was thought to be a good thing.

on a side note, back in the 1960s as a kid i remember hearing that the AMA was the most powerful union in the country.

can't recall where or from who i heard it, just remember hearing it.
Thanks for reminding me, the part about wage controls was what i'd forgotten. And agree that employers gatekeeping health insurance is less than ideal.
 

i'vegotwinners

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People aren't going to go through all those years of lost income/benefits, all those years of school/ school tuition/residency/all nighters; and the incredible stress of that gig for $90k a year. So what gives?

not everyone is in things for the money, and MDs who go into medicine for the money shouldn't take up a med school spot from someone who isn't.

the rest of industrialized world provides better medical outcomes than the US does, at less doctor compensation than we have, so again you make an assertion with zero to back it up.

that said, i do agree that doctors should be very well paid, and RNs well paid too.

i also believe in free medical school for those with the qualifications, which will take some of the pressure off the earnings side, and also pave the way for those with the qualifications who want to go into medicine for humanitarian reasons, to do so.
 
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i'vegotwinners

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Nobody ever wants to discuss the cost of care. Trust me, I've tried for years on here. Much easier to blame evil insurance companies rather than have to think long and hard about why costs are so high.

no one here has blamed healthcare provider charges rather than insurance companies for the high costs more than i.

but that's how capitalism works in a non competitive market, hospitals aren't a competitive market, nor is there any way to make them one even if you tried.

that said, private health insurance companies operate on a closed percent of costs platform, so two ways a private health insurance company can increase earnings and profits.

1), get more customers.

2), pay more for services to providers, thus allowing them to charge more for the insurance.

point being, the health insurance industry has zero incentive in holding down prices healthcare providers charge.

in fact, the opposite incentive exists.

on a side note, any price regulated utility pretty much has a similar disincentive to hold down costs, since how much they can charge their captive customer base, is often a function of the utility's costs.
 

INRanger27

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There are a lot of good things in the Biden Covid relief package. There are also a lot of good things in the GOP version (at least what's been released). I do think it should be possible for both sides to get together and come up with some sort of compromise that doesn't require falling back on reconciliation.

One thing that I'm worried about with the Biden plan, though, is their take on the minimum wage. I'm not opposed to a $15 minimum wage, in theory. I'm worried about getting rid of both the tipped minimum wage, and the tip tax credit, however.

I think most people in this country have some inkling that their food is cheaper because they tip. They realize that they are expected to pay their server or bartender, and in exchange, the cost of the food is less. Everyone wins. The customer gets cheaper food and drink, the business owner pays lower wages, and the server/bartender gets good money, a chunk of which they will never report as earned income to the government. I don't think most people realize just to what extent this arrangement helps customers, though. Restaurants and bars don't just save 15-20% on labor, which is made up by tips. They also have the tip tax credit, which saves them on payroll taxes. So, even though you might go into a restaurant knowing your real cost will be 20% higher than what the tab actually is, if we make servers non-tipped employees, the tab will actually go up by significantly more than 20%.

The change would also be a net negative for most servers. The truth is, most servers are already earning more than $15/hour. It's an extremely efficient job. You work about five hours, and go home with $100. Or twice that, if you're good and lucky enough to work at the right joint. So moving to a regular non-tipped position means making far less money or working longer hours. Probably with multiple jobs, because your boss isn't going to be jumping at the bit to raise your pay to $15/hour and move you from 25 to 40 hours/week, all while dealing with angry customers complaining that their $8 cheeseburger now costs $12.

I'd like to see Biden back off on the minimum wage, at least on getting rid of the tipped wage. Maybe go to $12/hour for regular employees, and $4-5/hour for tipped. That is something that could be absorbed. Prices would still go up, but not so much as to create an industry-wide shock to the market. If Biden is willing to ease up on this, maybe he could even use it to get some concessions from the GOP toward an overall compromise.
Anderson Cooper tried to take Biden to task last night on the CBO report but Biden unfortunately wrote off the CBO as fake news. Biden is far more presidential than the orange buffoon but he’s not any more convincing


COOPER: The Congressional Budget Office says that a $15 minimum wage would lift 900,000 people out of poverty, but would also cost 1.4 million people their jobs. Is that --

BIDEN: Yes, but there's also -- if you read that whole thing about Pinocchios and all the rest, there are also equal number of studies say that's not -- that it wouldn't have that effect, and particularly, as you do it in terms of how gradually you do it.
 

larsIU

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Costco moving to $16/hr minimum wage for their employees. Nice to see. I don't know what their starting wage was prior to this (hell, could have been 15.75/hr). Still, this may work for a larger multi billion dollar mega corp (and good for them for doing it) but isn't a one size fits all approach.
 
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Morrison

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I agree with this ruling. You shouldn’t be allowed to piggyback major legislation into a bill that is significant in itself.

It is interesting to have a professional in the White House again, because I’m of the opinion that Biden publicly supported the $15 minimum wage to appease the left, but would much rather work out a bipartisan bill with the Pubs. No way Harris overrules this.

Bernie’s plan B of incentivizing businesses to do this on their own, maybe should’ve been his plan A.

The minimum wage needs to be raised, but I think an initial base of $11, raised to $15 over 4-5 years is the way to go. But it should be a percentage based on geographic location, not a universal $11 to $15 nationwide.
 

Aloha Hoosier

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Marvin the Martian

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@TheOriginalHappyGoat is tipping dying? I have seen internet stories predating COVID that tipping in many industries is declining. If so, will that carry through to restaurants. I suspect COVID has greatly impacted tipping. I used to tip a little for carry out, I was not consuming near the service. I now tip full fair for carry out, actually well more since I suspect they need it. But 30%+ for carryout is not going to last for me, but carryout might.

I have a hatred of tipping. For many years I ate lunch at Cafe Pizzaria with my coworkers, every day. Our waitress there was great, she had several customers like us who were the Norms and Cliffs. I do not think I have ever had such consistently good waitressing. But my order might come to $6. If I left a $3 tip, that was very high by customary percentage. If I went to Jankos for dinner and spent $50, even a mediocre waitress would get $10. The system does not reward good wait staff, it rewards high end restaurant staff.
 

i'vegotwinners

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Good. If you care about people in poverty you should oppose this. The CBO estimates that about 1.4 million people will lose their jobs. I’d rather make minimum wage, which I have many times while paying my way through college, than not making enough to go to IU.

no better way to defeat poverty than to keep wages low.

everybody knows that.

no doubt the working class appreciate your efforts on their behalf.
 

Aloha Hoosier

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no better way to defeat poverty than to keep wages low.

everybody knows that.

no doubt the working class appreciate your efforts on their behalf.
That was actually short enough to read without developing a headache. It still baffles me that you write like a stoned teenager. Does it make you feel cool? Why won't you answer that question and solve one of the great Cooler mysteries?

Tell us what you think about the 1.4 million that CBO projects to lose their jobs if the $15 minimum were passed. Screw them, right?
 

i'vegotwinners

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I agree with this ruling. You shouldn’t be allowed to piggyback major legislation into a bill that is significant in itself.

It is interesting to have a professional in the White House again, because I’m of the opinion that Biden publicly supported the $15 minimum wage to appease the left, but would much rather work out a bipartisan bill with the Pubs. No way Harris overrules this.

Bernie’s plan B of incentivizing businesses to do this on their own, maybe should’ve been his plan A.

The minimum wage needs to be raised, but I think an initial base of $11, raised to $15 over 4-5 years is the way to go. But it should be a percentage based on geographic location, not a universal $11 to $15 nationwide.

raising the min wage would obviously impact taxes, thus the budget, so absolutely no idea how someone could argue it doesn't.

that said, the senate parliamentarian currently serves at the pleasure of the DNC, totally controlled by Wall St, (who would rather the earth spin out of solar orbit than have workers make more), makes $172,500 a yr with primo benefits, and no doubt knows where her bread is buttered.

that said, the Raise The Wage Act calls for the min wage to go to $9.50 in 2021, $11 in 2022, $12.50 in 2023, $14 in 2024, and $15 in 2025, so it's not like the min wage goes to $15 everywhere the next day.

that said, your suggestion that high cost of living areas should have an even higher min wage than $15 hr by 2025, is interesting.
 

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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@TheOriginalHappyGoat is tipping dying? I have seen internet stories predating COVID that tipping in many industries is declining. If so, will that carry through to restaurants. I suspect COVID has greatly impacted tipping. I used to tip a little for carry out, I was not consuming near the service. I now tip full fair for carry out, actually well more since I suspect they need it. But 30%+ for carryout is not going to last for me, but carryout might.

I have a hatred of tipping. For many years I ate lunch at Cafe Pizzaria with my coworkers, every day. Our waitress there was great, she had several customers like us who were the Norms and Cliffs. I do not think I have ever had such consistently good waitressing. But my order might come to $6. If I left a $3 tip, that was very high by customary percentage. If I went to Jankos for dinner and spent $50, even a mediocre waitress would get $10. The system does not reward good wait staff, it rewards high end restaurant staff.
Your Jankos server only waited on 6 or 8 tables that night. The cafe waitress took care of three dozen. Service is rewarded, regardless of what type of establishment it is.
 

JamieDimonsBalls

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There are a lot of good things in the Biden Covid relief package. There are also a lot of good things in the GOP version (at least what's been released). I do think it should be possible for both sides to get together and come up with some sort of compromise that doesn't require falling back on reconciliation.

One thing that I'm worried about with the Biden plan, though, is their take on the minimum wage. I'm not opposed to a $15 minimum wage, in theory. I'm worried about getting rid of both the tipped minimum wage, and the tip tax credit, however.

I think most people in this country have some inkling that their food is cheaper because they tip. They realize that they are expected to pay their server or bartender, and in exchange, the cost of the food is less. Everyone wins. The customer gets cheaper food and drink, the business owner pays lower wages, and the server/bartender gets good money, a chunk of which they will never report as earned income to the government. I don't think most people realize just to what extent this arrangement helps customers, though. Restaurants and bars don't just save 15-20% on labor, which is made up by tips. They also have the tip tax credit, which saves them on payroll taxes. So, even though you might go into a restaurant knowing your real cost will be 20% higher than what the tab actually is, if we make servers non-tipped employees, the tab will actually go up by significantly more than 20%.

The change would also be a net negative for most servers. The truth is, most servers are already earning more than $15/hour. It's an extremely efficient job. You work about five hours, and go home with $100. Or twice that, if you're good and lucky enough to work at the right joint. So moving to a regular non-tipped position means making far less money or working longer hours. Probably with multiple jobs, because your boss isn't going to be jumping at the bit to raise your pay to $15/hour and move you from 25 to 40 hours/week, all while dealing with angry customers complaining that their $8 cheeseburger now costs $12.

I'd like to see Biden back off on the minimum wage, at least on getting rid of the tipped wage. Maybe go to $12/hour for regular employees, and $4-5/hour for tipped. That is something that could be absorbed. Prices would still go up, but not so much as to create an industry-wide shock to the market. If Biden is willing to ease up on this, maybe he could even use it to get some concessions from the GOP toward an overall compromise.

you will like this

 

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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you will like this

Man, that's a lot of complicated bullshit, but it's not wrong. Minimum wage is complicated for many reasons, and that article highlights many of them. Obviously, I think it gave somewhat short shrift to the tipped wages, but that doesn't make it wrong.

We should be judging economic policy by the end effects for the working class, not by the "per hour" line on their W-2.
 
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NPT

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Nobody ever wants to discuss the cost of care. Trust me, I've tried for years on here. Much easier to blame evil insurance companies rather than have to think long and hard about why costs are so high.
One thing for sure is that there is a lot of waste. I would guess that 40% of follow-up appointments are completely unnecessary and people can't get into see their family doctor for 2-3 weeks because of unnecessary appointments. For example, I recently had a test done and got the results on MyChart (could have easily just have been a phone call) and the result of the test was "No change" so why should I have to see a doctor to tell me that?
 
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NPT

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@TheOriginalHappyGoat is tipping dying? I have seen internet stories predating COVID that tipping in many industries is declining. If so, will that carry through to restaurants. I suspect COVID has greatly impacted tipping. I used to tip a little for carry out, I was not consuming near the service. I now tip full fair for carry out, actually well more since I suspect they need it. But 30%+ for carryout is not going to last for me, but carryout might.

I have a hatred of tipping. For many years I ate lunch at Cafe Pizzaria with my coworkers, every day. Our waitress there was great, she had several customers like us who were the Norms and Cliffs. I do not think I have ever had such consistently good waitressing. But my order might come to $6. If I left a $3 tip, that was very high by customary percentage. If I went to Jankos for dinner and spent $50, even a mediocre waitress would get $10. The system does not reward good wait staff, it rewards high end restaurant staff.
Exactly Marvin.... why should a person have to pay someone who serves a $50 meal a lot more than someone who serves a $10 meal?
 

NPT

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I think the best way to continue to pass wealth to the middle and working class is to keep income taxes low and have a pretty nasty wealth tax to keep money flowing into the economy.
What do you mean by wealth tax? That means different things to different people so I just wanted a clarification of what you meant by it. Thanks!
 
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One thing for sure is that there is a lot of waste. I would guess that 40% of follow-up appointments are completely unnecessary and people can't get into see their family doctor for 2-3 weeks because of unnecessary appointments. For example, I recently had a test done and got the results on MyChart (could have easily just have been a phone call) and the result of the test was "No change" so why should I have to see a doctor to tell me that?
You don't have to see the doctor the second time if you're comfortable with the MyChart explanation. I've cancelled a couple of follow ups because there wasn't anything to follow up on.
 

JamieDimonsBalls

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Man, that's a lot of complicated bullshit, but it's not wrong. Minimum wage is complicated for many reasons, and that article highlights many of them. Obviously, I think it gave somewhat short shrift to the tipped wages, but that doesn't make it wrong.

We should be judging economic policy by the end effects for the working class, not by the "per hour" line on their W-2.
Man, that's a lot of complicated bullshit, but it's not wrong. Minimum wage is complicated for many reasons, and that article highlights many of them. Obviously, I think it gave somewhat short shrift to the tipped wages, but that doesn't make it wrong.

We should be judging economic policy by the end effects for the working class, not by the "per hour" line on their W-2.

it just seems like an obvious notion that wages cannot and should not be equally floored because of inherent differences in cost of living, in particular, among others.

I think all too often the argument is only focused on job loss. The Seattle experiment proves the hours worked are just as important and are a critical element in thinking through who is going to be disadvantaged.
 
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i'vegotwinners

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What do you mean by wealth tax? That means different things to different people so I just wanted a clarification of what you meant by it. Thanks!

a wealth tax doesn't mean different things to different people, everyone pretty much grasps what it is.

we can argue the specifics of how it's implemented.

that said, it's absolutely needed, and has been for ages.

the reason we don't already have one is the golden rule.
 

NPT

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a wealth tax doesn't mean different things to different people, everyone pretty much grasps what it is.

we can argue the specifics of how it's implemented.

that said, it's absolutely needed, and has been for ages.

the reason we don't already have one is the golden rule.
You must not read because I've seen different definitions of it.
 

i'vegotwinners

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you will like this


housing prices are about the only significant difference in the cost of living from Podunk WV to Malibu or Midtown.

yes, there are other costs that vary, but those have a min effect on cost of living compared to housing.

a new and perhaps dynamic min wage is absolutely needed.

as for the $15 hr min wage, the DNC killed that, and no one should be fooled into thinking otherwise.

the reason $15 hr wasn't bargained down some to facilitate it's passage, is because the DNC didn't want it raised at all.

pay attention not to what people or organizations say, but rather to what they do.

the fact that different parts of the country, and even different parts of individual states, have different housing costs, shouldn't be a legit reason to not raise the min wage, nor should a national min wage be set according to the cheapest housing prices in the country.

there is always more demand for min wage workers than there are workers willing to work for min wage, so the idea than raising the min wage will cost jobs is totally bs propaganda, as has been proven out every time the min wage has been raised anywhere.

some small employers in labor intensive businesses may need to tweak things to adapt, or their landlords may need to tweak things, but their competitive position relative to their competition will remain unchanged regardless of the min wage being $7.25 hr or $11 hr or $15 hr.

you can't argue Joe's Grill or Joe's Bar or Joe's Lawn Service would be put out of business by a higher min wage, without arguing that all restaurants and all bars and all lawn services would be put out of business by it, and that ain't happening as long as people like to eat and drink and don't want to mow their own yard, nor has it happened anywhere $15 hr has been implemented..
 

IUCrazy2

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One thing for sure is that there is a lot of waste. I would guess that 40% of follow-up appointments are completely unnecessary and people can't get into see their family doctor for 2-3 weeks because of unnecessary appointments. For example, I recently had a test done and got the results on MyChart (could have easily just have been a phone call) and the result of the test was "No change" so why should I have to see a doctor to tell me that?
So they can bill you an office visit.
 

larsIU

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So I have a statement and two questions.

Statement: I believe the min wage should be raised b/c of the miniscule number of people (as a % of the overall workforce) that even make min wage. According to the BLS:
In 2020, 73.3 million workers age 16 and older in the United States were paid at hourly rates, representing 55.5 percent of all wage and salary workers. Among those paid by the hour, 247,000 workers earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 865,000 workers had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 1.1 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 1.5 percent of all hourly paid workers.

I don't think the harm in raising the federal standard to $10/hr would be that great. Which leads to two questions:

1. The labor market is a market, no? If the demand for workers is high (which it seems to be as of right now) and the supply is not going to increase substantially over the next 5 years, why wouldn't we expect wages to rise (as they have over the past 18 months). If wages are rising isn't this the perfect time to raise the floor of the federal min wage? Or does this set a trap for later on down the road when the situation is reversed?

2. Why can't the states just handle this themselves? If Oregon wants to raise its min to $13/hr and Missouri doesn't, who cares? Or does this set a bad precedent where wages would become "regionalized" as Michigan/Indiana wouldn't want to fight over workers along their border?
 

mcmurtry66

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So I have a statement and two questions.

Statement: I believe the min wage should be raised b/c of the miniscule number of people (as a % of the overall workforce) that even make min wage. According to the BLS:


I don't think the harm in raising the federal standard to $10/hr would be that great. Which leads to two questions:

1. The labor market is a market, no? If the demand for workers is high (which it seems to be as of right now) and the supply is not going to increase substantially over the next 5 years, why wouldn't we expect wages to rise (as they have over the past 18 months). If wages are rising isn't this the perfect time to raise the floor of the federal min wage? Or does this set a trap for later on down the road when the situation is reversed?

2. Why can't the states just handle this themselves? If Oregon wants to raise its min to $13/hr and Missouri doesn't, who cares? Or does this set a bad precedent where wages would become "regionalized" as Michigan/Indiana wouldn't want to fight over workers along their border?
Good questions. And we already see regionalized wages - right to work vs union states to cite one ex.
 

hookyIU1990

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It should be a state issue, not a federal one. Wages are already regionalized and I'd argue they're broken down even further within a state, down to areas of a city.
 
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