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Michigan loses a top recruit

Baller23Boogie said:
I was talking about this back in January I believe when one of the trolls here was hyping up Michigan's class.

Really hasn't been a secret at all.
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I think they still have three other top 100 recruits. Howard will be a very good recruiter imo
 
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They also lost top-10 recruit Joshua Christopher, who many thought was a lock to Michigan, to Arizona State. That said, grad transfer Mike Smith will replace what Simpson did for them so if they don't lose anyone to the pros they will be a solid team again next season.
 
Didn't even look but I'm assuming it was Todd?

Yeah I think our resident star gazer was bragging about Howard getting Todd and we had to tell him to remember Josh Smith, as it was well known that Todd had zero intentions of playing college ball.

Love those one and dones!

Now I've got to see if it was Todd.
 
And yet they’re still dominating us in recruiting. Howard will succeed there.
 
TommyCracker said:
Didn't even look but I'm assuming it was Todd?

Yeah I think our resident star gazer was bragging about Howard getting Todd and we had to tell him to remember Josh Smith, as it was well known that Todd had zero intentions of playing college ball.

Love those one and dones!

Now I've got to see if it was Todd.
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He will always be a part of the Michigan family
 
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TR32 said:
Bet he doesn't.
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I’m not so sure he will either. Michigan was definitely not the same team this year without Beilein. I’d say by year 3-4 they’ll settle into the middle of the pack in the big ten. Michigan’s conf standings were 10th, 5th,4th, 4th and 4th the last five years
 
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fpeaugh said:
And yet they’re still dominating us in recruiting. Howard will succeed there.
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Stop you are not making sense. IU is getting the guys suited to our system. And I want to see you try to say how bad Archie is next year when we are in the top of the Big Ten race. But I am sure you will find something you always do. Look we are getting just as good of recruits as MU. You are going by stars and I am going by basketball players and Archie is bringing in winners. By the way if Lander reclassified then we have a better class than MU. We are building a successful program and you need to either get on board or be a pain in another teams forum. You are always negative. Always.
 
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Todd didn’t really leave Michigan, he left college basketball to turn pro. If there are many others leaving UMich it could signify an issue, but not just Todd.
 
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mattn7 said:
Stop you are not making sense. IU is getting the guys suited to our system. And I want to see you try to say how bad Archie is next year when we are in the top of the Big Ten race. But I am sure you will find something you always do. Look we are getting just as good of recruits as MU. You are going by stars and I am going by basketball players and Archie is bringing in winners. By the way if Lander reclassified then we have a better class than MU. We are building a successful program and you need to either get on board or be a pain in another teams forum. You are always negative. Always.
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he is always negative but at least it bring a tiny tiny bit of balance to this board. The majority, definitely including you, is way way way to positive in Archie.


this past year was far from a success, could it have been if the season continued? Sure, but doubtful. Don’t get it twisted if the season got cancelled one day earlier or we lost the last game of the year his narrative of we were on the bubble and a toss up to get in would 100% be true. Archie has yet to make a tournament, and UM was 100% better than us this year in Juwans first year.

Everything written about juwan is positive. Non bias people hold him in the highest regard in terms of coaching and recruiting. He was the ring leader of the fab five, and has been a great recruiter since he was 18.

Archie needs to win this next year and win big, there are no more excuses. Don’t act like there isn’t a possibility of it not working either. I think we will be good, I wanted to bet people on it, but to think it can’t happen and we suck like the last 20 years is not out of the realm of realistic possibilities.
 
Cavanagh said:
he is always negative but at least it bring a tiny tiny bit of balance to this board. The majority, definitely including you, is way way way to positive in Archie.


this past year was far from a success, could it have been if the season continued? Sure, but doubtful. Don’t get it twisted if the season got cancelled one day earlier or we lost the last game of the year his narrative of we were on the bubble and a toss up to get in would 100% be true. Archie has yet to make a tournament, and UM was 100% better than us this year in Juwans first year.

Everything written about juwan is positive. Non bias people hold him in the highest regard in terms of coaching and recruiting. He was the ring leader of the fab five, and has been a great recruiter since he was 18.

Archie needs to win this next year and win big, there are no more excuses. Don’t act like there isn’t a possibility of it not working either. I think we will be good, I wanted to bet people on it, but to think it can’t happen and we suck like the last 20 years is not out of the realm of realistic possibilities.
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To play devil's advocate, Howard was gifted with not only a fairly talented roster, but a very experienced one. Simpson was second to none in terms of on-court leadership and that quality can't be stressed enough for a first year head coach with minimal experience. I don't think anybody has questioned Howard's ability to recruit, I think everybody unanimously agreed that recruiting would come easy for Howard given his fame and NBA connections. But the jury is still out on player development and in-game coaching, something that his predecessor was one of the best at. Michigan went 10-10 in the B10 starting four upperclassmen from a team that won 30 games the year prior. Will be interesting to see how Michigan fares this year without Simpson. They have some talented pieces in Wagner and Livers (assuming he comes back) but in the last 24 hours have lost an immediate impact big in Isaiah Todd and had another top 10 recruit who most thought was all but a lock end up elsewhere.

Archie went .500 in the B10 his first year with a much inferior roster and inked a top 10 class and had already been written off by the same people giving high praise to Howard. I definitely think the jury is still out on Howard.
 
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Coach Geez said:
To play devil's advocate, Howard was gifted with not only a fairly talented roster, but a very experienced one. Simpson was second to none in terms of on-court leadership and that quality can't be stressed enough for a first year head coach with minimal experience. I don't think anybody has questioned Howard's ability to recruit, I think everybody unanimously agreed that recruiting would come easy for Howard given his fame and NBA connections. But the jury is still out on player development and in-game coaching, something that his predecessor was one of the best at. Michigan went 10-10 in the B10 starting four upperclassmen from a team that won 30 games the year prior. Will be interesting to see how Michigan fares this year without Simpson. They have some talented pieces in Wagner and Livers (assuming he comes back) but in the last 24 hours have lost an immediate impact big in Isaiah Todd and had another top 10 recruit who most thought was all but a lock end up elsewhere.

Archie went .500 in the B10 his first year with a much inferior roster and inked a top 10 class and had already been written off by the same people giving high praise to Howard. I definitely think the jury is still out on Howard.
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Robert Johnson and Simpson were very similar both in ratings pre college and pre new coach in college. Archie under achieved in his first 2 years and Howard I would say over achieved in his first.
 
Cavanagh said:
Robert Johnson and Simpson were very similar both in ratings pre college and pre new coach in college. Archie under achieved in his first 2 years and Howard I would say over achieved in his first.
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Simpson and Johnson play two different positions and Johnson had nowhere near the leadership qualities and on-court demeanor that Simpson displayed for nearly 3 years.

Archie Miller was starting:

Freddie McSwain
Juwan Morgan
Zack McRoberts
Robert Johnson
Devonte Green as So

by the end of his first year and still managed to go .500 in the B10. Calling that underachievement may be the statement of the century especially when saying Juwan Howard overachieved year 1. Michigan started

Teske Sr
Livers Jr
Wagner Fr (all-B10 freshman)
Brooks Jr
Simpson Sr

That lineup would wipe the floor with Archie's year 1 roster and I don't think that's even up for debate.
 
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Cavanagh said:
Don’t get it twisted if the season got cancelled one day earlier or we lost the last game of the year his narrative of we were on the bubble and a toss up to get in would 100% be true.
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"IF the season got cancelled one day earlier OR we lost the last game of the year"???? News flash, we didn't lose the last game and the season didn't get canceled one day earlier.

I will play that game.

If IU would have beaten OSU last year in the BTT they would have made the big dance. So Archie would have made the NCAA two years in a row.

If PU wouldn't have broken Scott May's arm in 75, IU would have won two NCAA's in a row.

If, If, but.
 
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Coach Geez said:
Simpson and Johnson play two different positions and Johnson had nowhere near the leadership qualities and on-court demeanor that Simpson displayed for nearly 3 years.

Archie Miller was starting:

Freddie McSwain
Juwan Morgan
Zack McRoberts
Robert Johnson
Devonte Green as So

by the end of his first year and still managed to go .500 in the B10. Calling that underachievement may be the statement of the century especially when saying Juwan Howard overachieved year 1. Michigan started

Teske Sr
Livers Jr
Wagner Fr (all-B10 freshman)
Brooks Jr
Simpson Sr

That lineup would wipe the floor with Archie's year 1 roster and I don't think that's even up for debate.
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What about our line up last year? A senior juwan Morgan and a lottery pick? That team should not wipe the floor against his year 2 team, but it would 9 out of 10 times.
 
Al Bino said:
"IF the season got cancelled one day earlier OR we lost the last game of the year"???? News flash, we didn't lose the last game and the season didn't get canceled one day earlier.

I will play that game.

If IU would have beaten OSU last year in the BTT they would have made the big dance. So Archie would have made the NCAA two years in a row.

If PU wouldn't have broken Scott May's arm in 75, IU would have won two NCAA's in a row.

If, If, but.
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I am saying we were a game away from being on the bubble. That is literally as close as you can be. People make it sound like we were a 7 seed.
 
Cavanagh said:
Robert Johnson and Simpson were very similar both in ratings pre college and pre new coach in college. Archie under achieved in his first 2 years and Howard I would say over achieved in his first.
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“Pre college” is the key phrase there...
 
Cavanagh said:
I am saying we were a game away from being on the bubble. That is literally as close as you can be. People make it sound like we were a 7 seed.
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And last year we were a game away from making it.

The point is we were in according to 89 out of 90 bracketologists. I even saw one that had us at an 8 seed.

You are emphasizing the negative, I am going for the positive and fpeaugh is ALWAYS negative. If he was balanced he would be much more credible.
 
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TommyCracker said:
I actually thought Howard had a pretty good first year.

He'll definitely recruit but that only gets you so far.

See Memphis last year.
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They lost the best player in the country early on. Having the best players is 90% of the game in college.
 
mattn7 said:
Stop you are not making sense. IU is getting the guys suited to our system. And I want to see you try to say how bad Archie is next year when we are in the top of the Big Ten race. But I am sure you will find something you always do. Look we are getting just as good of recruits as MU. You are going by stars and I am going by basketball players and Archie is bringing in winners. By the way if Lander reclassified then we have a better class than MU. We are building a successful program and you need to either get on board or be a pain in another teams forum. You are always negative. Always.
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I’m always realistic. The program has been a disaster for essentially two decades. I’ve heard the past two seasons that we’d be near the top of the Big Ten. And we finished 9th and 11th.

Recruiting rankings have been better than any other indicator on future success. And it’s objective apples to apples without fan bias. Just because it doesn’t match your bias doesn’t make it any less meaningful.
 
fpeaugh said:
I agree - it is.
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Just so we can clarify, you're saying that Michigan's recruiting, their three four star and one three star will be better than our five star when he reclassifies, two four stars and one three star (our three star is ranked and theirs isn't).

Just wanted you to get that cleared up for us. That is head and shoulders better recruiting?
 
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Baller23Boogie said:
Just so we can clarify, you're saying that Michigan's recruiting, their three four star and one three star will be better than our five star when he reclassifies, two four stars and one three star (our three star is ranked and theirs isn't).

Just wanted you to get that cleared up for us. That is head and shoulders better recruiting?
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Who assigns the stars? How many of these players have you actually seen play?
 
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