Michael Hunter - Watching OK St. / Texas Tech game...
- Thread starter Vididiot
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At the time he said he was giving u football and going to grad school near home...and then he ended up at OSU
I have no respect for guys who bail on their teammates and coaches for purely selfish reasons. I hate that the NCAA allows this. If a school fires the coach that the kid played for or if the kid is not getting playing time I can understand it. Otherwise, the player is screwing coaches that invested in him and teammates that were counting on him. I think it reveals a real lack of character. If Hunter was planning to leave IU he should have quit football before last year or told the coaching staff of his plans so someone else could have been getting the experience.
If I were in charge of the NCAA this is the first rule I would change.
Do you feel the same when 4th year players who still have eligibility, have practiced and played to the best of their ability, and who want to finish their careers with one more season, are told that they won't be returning for their 5th year because their scholarship is needed for someone else?
Yeah, screw kids that want to be happy!! Coaches, ADs, Professors, Administrators should be given the freedom to live, and work where they want, but not the friggin kids, screw them!!! Screw the kids!!
Yes, I think that's a horrible thing to do to a kid. No AD or university President should allow that scholarship to be yanked. I don't know if the NCAA should make that policy or not (simply because it gives an out to a kid who doesn't want to continue to invest and get better or chooses to be a detriment to the team) but it absolutely ought to be university policy unless the player violates conduct or academic rules.
The kids aren't employees earning a living and supporting families. They are teammates who made a commitment for four years. They should certainly honor that commitment to those who invested in them and depend on them. Honor should bind them, but if not, the rules should. Nothing is more selfish than quitting on your teammates when they are depending on you. If you do this, then you are selfish to your core.
My cousin was an electronics tech aboard a nuclear sub. He had a 6-year commitment. By the end of his fourth year he had a wife and a child and he hated the Navy, especially being away from home and out of contact with his family for months at a time. He was not happy, and he certainly had the skills to pursue a much more lucrative and fulfilling life in the civilian world.
But the Navy and Uncle Sam had invested heavily in his training and education. They had given him those skills and the opportunity for a better future. He owed them a return on their investment and he accepted that and fulfilled his obligation. I kind of see a football scholarship like that.
We owe those who invest in us and give us opportunities to fulfill the promises we make in return. If that is screwing someone, you and I have vastly different ideas of what it means to "screw kids".
You are comparing playing on an amateur team to serving in the military? Wow! I'm sorry but that's idiotic.
First of all football players at IU generate far more income than what is invested in them. Secondly schools recruit over and push kids out on a yearly basis, many times they are shown loyalty until they arent needed anymore. Thirdly the coaches and admins that are "investing" in them come and go as they please without repercussion
I was saying screw the kids and their idiotic belief that they have the right to live and work wherever they want. Don't they know that them exceed using the rights that you enjoy is affecting your favorite team? That is selfish! They owe you more than that!$
They owe me nothing. They owe their teammates. They owe the coaches who played them ahead of other kids. You call my opinion "idiotic" and that's fine. I won't apologize or concede that I am wrong because I believe a person should show some loyalty to those who made an investment in them and those who establish a kinship. Hunter left 100 guys who depended on him in a bad position for selfish reasons. It doesn't matter one bit how much IU or any university makes off of football players. That isn't any different at OSU. He quit on his teammates and the coaches who developed him when they most needed him. For that, he is selfish as is every other player who does the same - even those who might come to IU under the same circumstance. I have no respect for that.
Hunter is a poor choice he committed for four years when he signed and he stayed for four years. Every year IU tells former red shirts that the fifth year isn't promised and they are no longer on the team
I'm sorry but believing that a kid who gets to a school and figures out its not the right school for him has to stay there and be miserable for four years because of your sense of loyalty is just crazy.
Why would you want someone on the team who doesn't want to be there? That is truly mind boggling
Help me out here. Did Hunter get his scholarship for his 5th year yanked? Was he told he wasn't going to be a starter at IU this year? Was he treated terribly by the coaching staff or his teammates? If any of these things are true, then I absolutely retract what I said about him.
And for some reason, IU was a good place to be for four years - even one lost to injury - but now he has to leave because he realizes he has been miserable for four years. That's a hell of a long time to take to figure out you never liked your school.
What IU MIGHT have done or what was done to some other kid is completely irrelevant here. In my original post I qualified my statement restricting it to these 5th year or 4th year graduate situations. I don't have a problem at all with kids who transfer after their first or second year if it isn't the experience they hoped for. I wouldn't have had a problem with Tre Roberson's transfer if he had done it when IU still had an opportunity to recruit a replacement.
Hunter was invested in for four years by the staff. He was a starter last year and it was anticipated that he would be a starter this year and a key player in the secondary. He lied to his coaches and teammates. He let his team down as surely as Antonio Allen did - albeit under different circumstances. Just like Russell Wilson screwed his teammates and coaches at NC State to play at Wisconsin.
My statement was not an indictment against the whole philosophy of allowing transfers. It's about the lie of saying you are transferring to study in a different graduate program when the reality is that you want to wear a different uniform to improve your prospects of going to a bowl or improving your draft stock. Disloyalty and lying to improve your personal circumstances at the expense of those who invested time in you and now need your presence for the good of the group is selfish. It goes against everything that athletics is supposed to teach an individual.
Wilson didn't screw anybody. The NCSU coach gave him an ultimatum regarding baseball.
I reread your original reply and you didn't say fourth or fifth year transfers only.
If you are just saying you don't like the no sit out grad school transfer rule that's altogether different. I disagree, I think they shouldn't have to sit out a year under any circumstance, but many people don't like the grad school rule
Of course the hoops team has two of them, and they have been welcomed warmly. Have you spoken up about how you disagree with a quitter like Nick representing your school?
Then I stand corrected regarding Wilson. But I have to ask, did he play baseball at Wisconsin?
Part of the reason I feel so strongly about this goes back to the basketball guard from Valparaiso who transferred to MSU a few years ago. He played deep into the NCAA tournament with MSU while his teammates and coaches at Valpo missed the tournament. Had he stayed, the Crusaders would likely have been in the dance. MSU didn't give the time of day to the kid when he was in high school, but they were more than interested after Valpo had invested heavily in his development.
I had a personal connection to a teammate of his at Valpo who said that MSU let it be known to the kid that they would find a grad program not offered by Valpo to get him in a Spartan uniform. I just think this grad transfer stuff sucks. Notice that it rarely if ever happens with a kid who can't come in and start at his new school.
Neither Nick nor Max aren't going to be starters. Nick left a probable starting spot to come off the bench for IU
Addressing the Hunter situation, I apologize if it wasn't clear that I meant the grad transfer rule. I have a hard time watching IU basketball these days so I don't pay a lot of attention to Zeisloft or the kid we got from Michigan. But yeah, I have a difficult time rooting for them, particularly if they were guys their old school was counting on to help. A one-year sit-out would probably solve the problem. I could support that.
UM let Max know his time there was done. They wanted his scholarship for a HS stud, that eventually chose Cal
Nick was being counted on by ISU
If that's the case, I have no problem with the kid from UM being here. As much as Zeisloft might help us, my personal opinion is that he should have stayed put with his teammates - but he did have two years left to play, correct? So he was not quite a hired gun brought in to be a one year answer to our most pressing problem.
With that being said, I doubt that I watch much of either this year. I've been a high school basketball coach for thirty-plus years and I just can't stand the way the Hoosiers play. I've found that not watching is much easier on my blood pressure and keeps me from wanting to gouge my eyes out with a spoon in order to give up watching basketball altogether lol.
I don't understand why it matters when they transfer. If you think a player is quitting on the team by transferring as a senior, why is he not a quitter if he transfers as a sophomore?
I think the graduate transfer thing is just so often deceitful both on the part of the player and the school he is transferring to. I really suspect that a lot of times it involves improper indirect contact between a school with a pressing need and a kid who can solve that need looking to get himself into a more successful program with a better limelight. Especially so when the player is clearly headed for a professional career in his chosen sport, rather than entering the field of his graduate degree at his "new" university. To use an earlier example, did Russell Wilson even finish his grad program at Wisconsin or did he leave school at the end of football to get ready for the NFL draft ? I don't know, I really am asking. If he (or others) didn't, then how much of the transfer was driven by the need to pursue a graduate program and how much was just a chance to have a better athletic situation.
I think when most kids transfer after one or two years, they really are not satisfied with their overall university experience and are looking for a better fit. I'm sure that isn't always true but being willing to sit a year or play at a lower division level suggests to me that the kid is really dissatisfied with his overall experience.
If you are truly concerned that players are basing their decisions on athletics and not academics, stop watching college sports. If we got rid of every athlete who was more interested in sports than school, you would stop watching because if the poor level of play
Russel Wilson wasn't clearly headed to the NFL, his play at UW put him on the NFLs radar. His transfer might go down as one of the smartest transfers in history. It made the difference between him being a super bowl winner, and not a minor leaguer.
Why shouldn't Wilson be allowed to leave for a better athletic situation? If he doesn't transfer its very likely that he doesn't start at NCSt. But according to you that shouldn't matter, he should shelve his dream of playing in the NFL and be loyal...that's nuts.
These athletes are oftentimes their families only hope for a secure financial future and you think they should put loyalty to teammates above their family responsibilities?
Hunter, in his Twitter comments, made a comment to the effect that he wanted his final year to be a a school "that had a chance to do something in the post season." OSU met his goals for his graduate studies and playing at a better program.
It's ok for us to just disagree on this. I'm not going to change your opinion and you aren't changing mind. I'm just more skeptical of the motivations and the reasons/excuses offered by the players. I've never bought into the argument that players need to go where they can be "seen" in order to find opportunity. The scouting networks are extensive at both the college and pro levels. They know if you can play regardless of where you played.
As for the personal side of it, you obviously favor the right of the individual to act in his best interest. Fair enough. I see that as selfish and not to be admired if it means reducing the chances of success for those you once called teammates. I have always felt that being part of a team means making a commitment to something greater than yourself and remaining true to that commitment if breaking that commitment causes harm to others who depend on your contributions. It may be antiquated and naïve in today's environment of sports to think that way but I'd like to believe that character still counts for something. I've told my own children that if their personal goals are more important to them than being a great teammate that they should focus on individual sports.
I get that college sports are far less wholesome than they were once intended to be, but I think they still should emphasize life lessons. That's the teacher and high school coach in me. I make no apologies for it. One of the greatest life lessons is the value of loyalty and working your hardest everyday to improve the chances of success for everyone around you. Not leaving when you are confronted with a less-than-ideal group situation for a better chance at personal gain. Especially if your contribution is vital. That's the whole concept of a team whether it be family, sports, work, church, or other relationships.
My grandfather was fond of the saying "What a person has the right to do is not always the right thing to do". Players have the right to ditch their teammates for greener personal pastures. In my view that makes them less of a person. I don't respect it. I don't like to see organizations like the NCAA who have a mission to promote the concept of TEAM enable it.
We ask the kids on our basketball team what kind of teammate they would like to be remembered as being - the kind who sacrificed and deserved the respect and sacrifices of others, or the kind who looked out for himself and wasn't deserving of commitment and the best efforts of those around him.
As I said earlier, I value honor. I have very little respect for those who think it isn't important. I think we are in trouble as a society when we send messages to people that commitments don't matter and it's acceptable to dump on those who helped us get where we are - especially when they need us most. That's how I feel about Michael Hunter and I hate that the NCAA encourages it.
My question is whether he really is taking graduate
level courses in an acdemic field that IU does not
offer or are the courses at OK St. that he is now
enrolled in a ruse?
level courses in an acdemic field that IU does not
offer or are the courses at OK St. that he is now
enrolled in a ruse?
Well, we've sure heard from the "Me" generation haven't we? If you accept a scholarship to a school you should be bound to that school until they release you. Our kids are learning nothing about loyalty or keeping their word. All the rationalizations in the world will never make it right. Me, me, me...lots of young people on this site, eh? All kids learn from transferring is self fulfillment. If there's not a good reason for leaving, it should not be allowed. Lots of good reasons but if you don't have one, you're obligated when you signed to play. Playing time or finding a winning program is NOT, and never will be, a good reason...period. Imo...
I was siding with Hunter until I read this. If this is true then Michael Hunter is about as low a life as there is, IMO.... With everything that IU invested in this "young man" - I hesitate to call him a man - when he had his knee injury and surgeries, I can't believe he'd have the balls to leave IU for the sole reason stated here.
I find it hard to wish him success in football from here on out.... notice I said, football only.
Should the school be bound to the student athlete for the entirety of their five year period where eligibility is possible, regardless of their ability to help the team? Are you as passionate about this when any program (including IU) informs 4th year players with remaining eligibility that they will not be welcomed back for their 5th and final year? Are you okay when players are approached in November of that year and told that their parents will be invited to walk with other parents on Senior Day, but that their time with the program is done? All of this, by the way, because they (the coaches) want to free that scholarship up for someone else. Do your rationalizations include room for this well traveled scenario that will be occurring in programs all over the country this month?
It doesn't have to be a course not offered by IU, it can be as minor a difference as OSU offering an internship that IU doesn't
It was my understanding when he left that he had graduated and wanted to go to grad school in some kind of physical therapy or sports therapy in which IU did not have a grad program. His tweet could have meant that, of the schools that did have an acceptable program, he wanted to go to one that had post season possibilities. It might not necessarily mean that that was why he was leaving IU.
And Nick is going to be here for 2 years and not just one like most grad student transfers.
The deal is you come play ball for us and we give you a four year scholarship and plenty of support to get an undergraduate degree. When the time comes, you may be offered an additional year or you may not, depending on our needs. Why is that so difficult to grasp?
He wanted to be closer to home and play a different style of defense.
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