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Melania Trump plagarizes 2008 Michelle Obama DNC speech

Indian and Asian elephants are endangered.

Somewhere in discussing that, I threw in a caveat regarding conservation status. So I'm not equating the hunting of deer with the hunting of any species that is considered threatened. As such, an elephant was a bad example.

I was really speaking more about disparate emotions, depending on the particular animal in question.
 
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I fail to see how any sentient being does not understand how someone could not understand the different situations between elephants and deer. Deer processing in my state is monitored to determine permit levels. Low levels of fat will reduce permits and vice versa. They also have biologists that do spotlighting. My son and I rode along on one of these checks.

Indian and Asian elephants are endangered.
Since crazed originally was responding to my comment, let me clarify this: the reason I find trophy hunting distasteful has nothing to do with species endangerment. I find it distasteful because I think it shows a lack of respect for life, and I think taking the life of an animal should be accompanied by some utilitarian justification, such as food, or the protecting of livestock, whatever.

But, from a purely conservationist standpoint, I'm willing to look past my own distaste, because, as I originally pointed out, big game hunting in Africa is actually an important part of conservation of these species. Namibia wouldn't have the resources to protect these species without the money received from rich western hunters during occasional license auctions. The money spent to kill one elephant can be used to save multiple other elephants from poachers. It's a net gain, conservation-wise.

Similarly, in many areas of North America, deer sometimes need to be culled to help prevent the spread of disease, or to lessen competition for scarce resources that might be more damaging for the population as a whole than hunting is. In those cases, my personal distaste for hunting just for sport takes a backseat to the practical benefits of thinning the population. (FTR, most hunters I know don't hunt just for sport, but instead turn their catch into food.)
 
Actually I think waterboarding very clearly fits that definition, specifically under 2(C).

I don't know when thinking you could die at any moment doesn't qualify as torture, per section (1). And goat nailed it by citing section 2(c).

Do folks not realize it simulates drowning? That would have to be one of my top five most terrifying ways to die.
 
I don't know when thinking you could die at any moment doesn't qualify as torture, per section (1). And goat nailed it by citing section 2(c).

Do folks not realize it simulates drowning? That would have to be one of my top five most terrifying ways to die.
Actually, it doesn't simulate anything. It is drowning. It's just a very controlled drowning.
 
I don't know when thinking you could die at any moment doesn't qualify as torture, per section (1). And goat nailed it by citing section 2(c).

Do folks not realize it simulates drowning? That would have to be one of my top five most terrifying ways to die.
Maybe it has to draw blood? Leave a mark?
 
Since crazed originally was responding to my comment, let me clarify this: the reason I find trophy hunting distasteful has nothing to do with species endangerment. I find it distasteful because I think it shows a lack of respect for life, and I think taking the life of an animal should be accompanied by some utilitarian justification, such as food, or the protecting of livestock, whatever.

But, from a purely conservationist standpoint, I'm willing to look past my own distaste, because, as I originally pointed out, big game hunting in Africa is actually an important part of conservation of these species. Namibia wouldn't have the resources to protect these species without the money received from rich western hunters during occasional license auctions. The money spent to kill one elephant can be used to save multiple other elephants from poachers. It's a net gain, conservation-wise.


Similarly, in many areas of North America, deer sometimes need to be culled to help prevent the spread of disease, or to lessen competition for scarce resources that might be more damaging for the population as a whole than hunting is. In those cases, my personal distaste for hunting just for sport takes a backseat to the practical benefits of thinning the population. (FTR, most hunters I know don't hunt just for sport, but instead turn their catch into food.)

I will accept that it was a stupid example, because it was.
 
I will accept that it was a stupid example, because it was.
I don't think anyone said anything stupid. I was only clarifying because a lot of this conversation is based in my lack of clarity several pages ago when it appeared I was singling out "big game" hunting as especially distasteful. In truth, I was only singling it out because of my point about raising money to combat poaching, which is especially important for big game in Africa, but I didn't do a very good job of explaining that clearly. This whole sub thread with crazed started with my sloppy post.
 
Goat, I wonder if you would change your tune if you had a child serving overseas in the middle east. Is water boarding torture? Yes, but it does get results. Khalid Sheik Muhhamad sang like a canary after receiving it. Nobody likes or loves water boarding. But it gets results and could save American lives. If my child was over there I would hope my govt uses every possible means to protect my child. The old saying is true, "war is hell". It ain't pretty and sometimes to get the job done things like water boarding has to be done to get vital info to defeat the enemy and secure American soldier lives.
I just imagined Jesus saying the nonsense you just typed out...turn off Fox News.
 
The average age of Fox News viewers is reportedly over 65 now. Old. White. Farts.
I do solemnly swear to never watch Fox News, even when I am 65 years old. By then, it probably would kill me , the way it makes my blood boil!
 
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