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Mediocrity

3dogs

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Mar 29, 2013
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Wanted to post before the end of the Kentucky game because the outcome is meaningless to my question. Isn't this program slowly fading to mediocre at best? Is our coach just running on the fumes/talent left behind by Coach Smith? I see 2 players our current staff has brought in over 3 years that are even slightly better than average(Lloyd and Butler)
I see maybe 2 arms, maybe, that are slightly better than mid d-1 level. We finished 6th in the big ten, a mediocre league. Yes, a good RPI somehow but anyone who has watched the last 2 years has to see the lack of talent and "coaching them up"
Do we make a regime change or accept going back to being 6-8 in conference and just a bunch of guys? Need outside opinions because my friends and I are getting tired of complaining to each other.
 
Wanted to post before the end of the Kentucky game because the outcome is meaningless to my question. Isn't this program slowly fading to mediocre at best? Is our coach just running on the fumes/talent left behind by Coach Smith? I see 2 players our current staff has brought in over 3 years that are even slightly better than average(Lloyd and Butler)
I see maybe 2 arms, maybe, that are slightly better than mid d-1 level. We finished 6th in the big ten, a mediocre league. Yes, a good RPI somehow but anyone who has watched the last 2 years has to see the lack of talent and "coaching them up"
Do we make a regime change or accept going back to being 6-8 in conference and just a bunch of guys? Need outside opinions because my friends and I are getting tired of complaining to each other.
This is our 6th NCAA appearance ever. Lemonis is literally the only coach who has ever taken us to the NCAA tournament two out of his first three years. In the year that we didn't make it, last year, we still had a winning record. We finished like two games back in the loss column in the Big Ten. Our RPI was "somehow" ranked highly because we played a tough schedule and had several good wins, including a win over Louisville.

Also, Tracy Smith is currently sitting at home after leading Arizona State to their first losing season in like 50 years. Also, I do actually think he's a really good coach, but a good chunk of his tenure here was filled with missing the NCAA tournament. We are not always going to have a Kyle Schwarber on our team. And as good of a team as we head in Smith's last year, we didn't get out of regionals and lost at home. He did a lot for our program and helped build it up, but I have no idea where some of these expectations are coming from. You're seriously suggesting that we fire the coach for "only" making the NCAA tournament. Do you not see how stupid that is?

All of Lemonis' classes here have been ranked pretty highly, so I've now seen people complain about not recruiting enough talent here, and not doing enough with good recruiting classes. It's mind-boggling.

I'd like to know your expectations on yearly basis for the program. I have no idea why people think we are this powerhouse program because we had one run to the CWS. We are consistently getting 30 win seasons and making the NCAA tournament. When that happens, you will likely see a deep run every once in a while. To suggest firing the staff now is completely asinine and all that shows me that our fans don't follow college baseball much at all. Is the team flawed? Yes. Do the coaches make mistakes? Yes. But I cannot fathom why we are seeing threads like this. It's just dumb. And our current tournament game isn't even over.

To actually answer your question, there is a 0% chance that the staff is fired after the season. So there's no real point even discussing it. The IU baseball coach does not get fired after three years for having three winning seasons and two NCAA appearances.
 
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Smith:

41_CA5548-5269-4574-_B016-_D904_D4_AF5322.jpg


Lemonis:

IMG_7425.png


CL's classes have been right around the 30s, which is really good for us and the Big Ten. I cannot believe this is even being discussed.

Oh and I stand corrected, this is actually our sixth all time NCAA tournament appearance. Lemonis is literally responsible for a third of those.
 
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This wasn't an I love Coach Smith thread or a Smith versus Lemo thread. I want to know what talent Coach Lemo has brought in that is even above average. I count again 2 players and maybe 2 arms, one of which collapsed today and got outdone by KU freshman starter. If it were not for the talent left behind, we'd be Penn State baseball. My question is what has Lemo done to advance the program in the last 3 years? Do you think we are getting better or worse? Because we haven't been historically good does that mean we accept going backward? Can you honestly say, watching this team play this year, the future is on an upswing? I see mostly "just guys" who will place us middle conference and mostly average. I want to be wrong. We were told Lemo was a hot shot recruiter, I just don't see it. Ratings say one thing but results and eyeballs are saying another.
 
Wanted to post before the end of the Kentucky game because the outcome is meaningless to my question. Isn't this program slowly fading to mediocre at best? Is our coach just running on the fumes/talent left behind by Coach Smith? I see 2 players our current staff has brought in over 3 years that are even slightly better than average(Lloyd and Butler)
I see maybe 2 arms, maybe, that are slightly better than mid d-1 level. We finished 6th in the big ten, a mediocre league. Yes, a good RPI somehow but anyone who has watched the last 2 years has to see the lack of talent and "coaching them up"
Do we make a regime change or accept going back to being 6-8 in conference and just a bunch of guys? Need outside opinions because my friends and I are getting tired of complaining to each other.

I won't bore you to death like RBB...

Yes.

We don't hit
We don't pitch
We run the bases like morons
 
Have you seen Jeremy Houston play? He is one of if not the best short stop in the BIG. He is a freshman from Chicago. Have you seen the play of Ryan Fineman? He is a soph catcher that is outstanding. I'd be curious to know how much you have watched this team.
 
Actually your table helps illustrate my point. 2nd,1st and 1st last years before Lemo. 6th,3rd,6th in Lemo's 3. Lemo hasn't signed 1 arm or 1 player better than anyone on the roster Smith's last year. Dedelow is your best player and our entire current pitching staff is turning into a dumpster fire. So yes, backsliding. Seems like 6th is going to be our new normal unless recruiting and coaching improve. Wasn't Coach Bunn considered a great hire?
 
Watched this team when I could during the year. Was at the big ten tournament. Houston is above average glove, very little bat. Tons of guys throughout college baseball just like him, saw several at the tournament. Fineman is a decent defensive catcher, started as your 4 hole hitter, ended as your 8 hole hitter hitting low 200's. Again, saw at least a handful in our own conference better. Decent/average/mediocre. My point is: they aren't horrible but they are just guys. Nothing more and that's ok.
 
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Actually your table helps illustrate my point. 2nd,1st and 1st last years before Lemo. 6th,3rd,6th in Lemo's 3. Lemo hasn't signed 1 arm or 1 player better than anyone on the roster Smith's last year. Dedelow is your best player and our entire current pitching staff is turning into a dumpster fire. So yes, backsliding. Seems like 6th is going to be our new normal unless recruiting and coaching improve. Wasn't Coach Bunn considered a great hire?
Look at the pitching we lost for gosh sakes. If you haven't seen the improvement in the freshman pitching over the course of the season then I don't think you really watch.
 
Unfortunately a few of the top recruits decided not to play college baseball and go pro out of high school including the best pitcher. That happens when you are trying for better players in college. This years class lost pitcher Skyler Syzinski and Jack Suwinski. Gorski, Loyd and Houston have all had good freshman seasons. Several of the freshman pitchers will contribute more next year. Matheny will also contribute more next year. Fineman and Miller are quality sophomores brought in by Lemonis.

I think your jump to say that we are headed down the tubes already is typical fandom these days. I think we are fine and I enjoy watching this team play.

It was painful to see our pitching staff not be able to hold leads and some of the base running mistakes but that is part of the game.
 
Krueger is actually 1 of the arms I referenced as potentially above average. Saalfrank threw 5 nice innings against Minnesota but still a nearly 6 era, but I'm at least mildly hopeful for him and Stievers perhaps. Their numbers give me less hope. There are a lot of freshmen pitchers around the country who have better numbers. I worry that Saalfrank tops out around 86/87 mostly.
 
Never said down the tubes, said mediocre, average, sliding back to roughly 6th or so and that is frustrating based on where we were and what we were told about the incoming staff. Thanks for the typical fandom stuff though. I guess being concerned about the direction and trend I see is uneducated. Fineman had 9 extra base hits all year and hit .230, meh. You are right on Miller, I should put him with Lloyd and Butler, my bad. Gorski was ok but he falls in with the vast majority of this roster. No statistical or eyeball reason to believe they will magically progress just by getting older(see Hobbie) Hope is all we have and that's not a strategy.
 
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Unfortunately a few of the top recruits decided not to play college baseball and go pro out of high school including the best pitcher. That happens when you are trying for better players in college. This years class lost pitcher Skyler Syzinski and Jack Suwinski. Gorski, Loyd and Houston have all had good freshman seasons. Several of the freshman pitchers will contribute more next year. Matheny will also contribute more next year. Fineman and Miller are quality sophomores brought in by Lemonis.

I think your jump to say that we are headed down the tubes already is typical fandom these days. I think we are fine and I enjoy watching this team play.

It was painful to see our pitching staff not be able to hold leads and some of the base running mistakes but that is part of the game.
Yep, a lot of people's idea of criticism leads directly to "we need to fire everybody right now!" And I seriously have no idea where these ridiculous expectations came from.
 
Dogs you are entitled to your opinion but I don't see it as mediocre. Making the Regionals two out of three years regardless of the big ten finish tells me that we might see development. Baseball is a lot different game than a lot of the other sports. I just like to wait and see and let him see what he can bring in this year that might be able to plug in right away. Yes I have attended games and watched whenever I could. I feel that I saw enough development not to throw in the towel.
 
I should state mine, not just ask the question. It is my opinion that nearly every aspect of the program is worse than when Coach took over, not a catastrophie but clearly worse with little on the horizon to make me think it will get better. My expectation is to fix the pitching staff somehow, recruit some hitters and tighten up some coaching decision making
 
Well I too have been critical of the baseball program – and the response has always been “look at the record”. And I respect that because wins matter. But I am old school when it comes to baseball. Don’t strike out, value runners, take pitches when the situation requires it, etc.
The rise in strikeouts is not just an Indiana phenomenon, there are a lot players at every level that could care not less about the number of times they strike out. It’s sort of a selfish approach; but again, it’s not just at Indiana. I have heard Coach say “we like to go after the first straight one” which is a good approach but after that you have to adjust.
, and a baserunner should never, ever get picked off second; if you are on second you are in what we used to call “scoring position” – but now you have to get a ridiculous lead.
This is the way the game is played now… swing away, hit some bombs and have 6 – 8 guys that can throw 90 *+; just not the way I remember the game coaching

P.S. if Saalfrank can get guys out throwing upper 80's who cares - just get guys out
 
Dogs you are entitled to your opinion but I don't see it as mediocre. Making the Regionals two out of three years regardless of the big ten finish tells me that we might see development. Baseball is a lot different game than a lot of the other sports. I just like to wait and see and let him see what he can bring in this year that might be able to plug in right away. Yes I have attended games and watched whenever I could. I feel that I saw enough development not to throw in the towel.
Agree. Even broaching the subject of getting a new coaching staff after three years, with those three years including three winning seasons and two NCAA appearances is just completely asinine.

I mean, Smith only made the tournament three years out of nine years. This is a bizarre thread.
 
I'm not throwing in the towel, just see a trend that bothers me. I was excited at his hire and love college baseball. Just worried we slide into irrelevance more or less. I agree on Saalfrank it was just interesting to see how many guys from the various big ten staffs at least threw 91 or so. We had 2/3 guys go that. Get outs I agree but would like to see some arm talent maybe. Saalfrank showed well in the 2nd Gopher game.
 
Smith took over a much worse program and left it in great shape. The trend appears to be going in the opposite direction now. Sorry that worries me, I'll just accept it. Have a good day.
 
Well I definitely think Syzinski would have helped on the mound this year. Lemonis lost his two biggest bat recruits that have also decided on the pro route rather than go to college. I will say though I was disappointed in some of the poor fundamentals this year. Where do we find and get to college the next Schwarber and Travis.
 
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Watched this team when I could during the year. Was at the big ten tournament. Houston is above average glove, very little bat. Tons of guys throughout college baseball just like him, saw several at the tournament. Fineman is a decent defensive catcher, started as your 4 hole hitter, ended as your 8 hole hitter hitting low 200's. Again, saw at least a handful in our own conference better. Decent/average/mediocre. My point is: they aren't horrible but they are just guys. Nothing more and that's ok.


Troll
 
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That brings up the issue of how the elite baseball programs achieve success on a yearly basis. The baseball coaches are always trying to recruit the best talent, but aware the best players may be drafted highly and bypass college. It's almost as though you want good talent, but worry if they have great ability. It makes it more challenging than football and basketball, where the players will likely attend the university if they have signed.

Another player IU would have had the past couple of seasons is Josh Ockimey, a hard hitting first baseman out of Philadelphia who signed with Boston as a fifth round choice. He had 18 homers last season at low A Greenville and is now at high A Salem.
 
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I will honestly say that I did not watch the baseball team this year. Followed their record and watched post season play.

Historically IU and the Big Ten have been a joke nationally. I believe the Big Ten had more teams in post season play than ever before. University's are now investing more time/money into the baseball program and that includes IU. Bart Kaufman stadium for example, huge investment that will lead to more/better recruits. We went out and got a head coach from the Louisville staff that has already established a winning tradition.

As pointed out in earlier threads, Lemonis has taken IU to the post season 2 out of 3 years. He is still learning and growing as well. Freshman class is very good including some pitchers that will make the jump during the off season.

I see it as very exciting and on their way to consistent relevance.
Not sure we're everyone has been for the last 20 years, but IU was somewhat of a joke. I believe most tied to baseball, nationally, now takes IU very serious and a program moving in the right direction. I could understand if we had tradition or success like the SEC, Oregon St., Stanford, etc... but that is not the case. It's a process and the right buttons are being pushed. Sit back and enjoy it.
 
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I will honestly say that I did not watch the baseball team this year. Followed their record and watched post season play.

Historically IU and the Big Ten have been a joke nationally. I believe the Big Ten had more teams in post season play than ever before. University's are now investing more time/money into the baseball program and that includes IU. Bart Kaufman stadium for example, huge investment that will lead to more/better recruits. We went out and got a head coach from the Louisville staff that has already established a winning tradition.

As pointed out in earlier threads, Lemonis has taken IU to the post season 2 out of 3 years. He is still learning and growing as well. Freshman class is very good including some pitchers that will make the jump during the off season.

I see it as very exciting and on their way to consistent relevance.
Not sure we're everyone has been for the last 20 years, but IU was somewhat of a joke. I believe most tied to baseball, nationally, now takes IU very serious and a program moving in the right direction. I could understand if we had tradition or success like the SEC, Oregon St., Stanford, etc... but that is not the case. It's a process and the right buttons are being pushed. Sit back and enjoy it.
This. For most of its history, the baseball program was even worse than the football program.
 
I think the Coach should stay and that he has done a very good job. They had a very hard game on Friday night that they lost in extra innings and played well on Saturday. Kentucky is a better team and that is why they won. Someday it will be Iu who wins!!!!!
 
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I'm not throwing in the towel, just see a trend that bothers me. I was excited at his hire and love college baseball. Just worried we slide into irrelevance more or less. I agree on Saalfrank it was just interesting to see how many guys from the various big ten staffs at least threw 91 or so. We had 2/3 guys go that. Get outs I agree but would like to see some arm talent maybe. Saalfrank showed well in the 2nd Gopher game.
A trend that bothers you? You mean the trend of making it to the NCAA tourney almost every year? Last year was the exception, and we can all be a little disappointed in how the year ended, and with a handful of games in particular, but the fact is we were better this year than last year. So if we just improved from the prior year, how possibly could that be sliding into irrelevance? It would be nice to have a Schwarber, Travis, Demuth and Denato every year but that's just not reality. Hopefully we find a couple more studs like them soon but the program is in great shape. And anyone calling for Lemonis' job, well (1) you are way off base, and (2) you are just wasting your time. Not going to happen until we actually lose more games than we win in multiple years. Thank goodness Glass is in charge and not some of the posters.
 
Watched this team when I could during the year. Was at the big ten tournament. Houston is above average glove, very little bat. Tons of guys throughout college baseball just like him, saw several at the tournament. Fineman is a decent defensive catcher, started as your 4 hole hitter, ended as your 8 hole hitter hitting low 200's. Again, saw at least a handful in our own conference better. Decent/average/mediocre. My point is: they aren't horrible but they are just guys. Nothing more and that's ok.

I don't disagree. But I think at least part of the problem is that Tracy didn't recruit very well his last few years. Just MHO

He didn't exactly leave the cupboard loaded with studs. To get the results that they've got with what they have is pretty impressive.
 
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Smith took over a much worse program and left it in great shape. The trend appears to be going in the opposite direction now. Sorry that worries me, I'll just accept it. Have a good day.

You realize you're also comparing the program to the absolute best years ever (and not even by a little but by a lot) and that it's certainly conceivable that even if Tracy had stayed we would never be that good again?

It's akin to an IU Basketball fan comparing every team since the '74-'76 seasons and saying we've come up short since then. It's dumb.

How much did you analyze the Big Ten schedule this year?
  • We played 6 of the 7 other teams that made the tournament. Nebraska played 4. The only other team that made the BTT that came close to that was Purdue, who played 5 of those teams. None of the others played more than 4. We finished in 6th....a whopping 2 games out of first. The unbalanced schedule couldn't play a role in that 2 game shift?
 
A question I have, and I'll ask in this thread, is how do we get IU baseball to become something akin to Louisville baseball? They are located less than 100 miles south, so the climate issue isn't totally applicable. I understand that they now play in an excellent baseball conference, but they rose playing in "lesser" conferences. Facilities seem generally similar. What is the key? Is it that they rode a couple of good seasons and really were able to capitalize, or are there other issues/factors that supported their rise? I think that, with the hire of Lemonis, we were clearly attempting to follow the UofL blueprint, but I'm curious about the thoughts of people that know more about this than I.
 
A question I have, and I'll ask in this thread, is how do we get IU baseball to become something akin to Louisville baseball? They are located less than 100 miles south, so the climate issue isn't totally applicable. I understand that they now play in an excellent baseball conference, but they rose playing in "lesser" conferences. Facilities seem generally similar. What is the key? Is it that they rode a couple of good seasons and really were able to capitalize, or are there other issues/factors that supported their rise? I think that, with the hire of Lemonis, we were clearly attempting to follow the UofL blueprint, but I'm curious about the thoughts of people that know more about this than I.
They kind of got the ball rolling a few years before Tracy Smith had his big 2-3 years here. So I think it basically comes down to time. They have many more years of momentum to build off of.
 
They kind of got the ball rolling a few years before Tracy Smith had his big 2-3 years here. So I think it basically comes down to time. They have many more years of momentum to build off of.
That's kind of my thinking, but I'm just curious about whether there is anything specific that they have done or a specific "thing" that has put them where they are or allowed them to continue capitalize on the success they have had. Are there any facilities/administrative support that IU baseball doesn't have? I know that McDonnell is one of the best coaches in the game and UofL is supporting him and paying him $1 million per year, but I was just curious about anything else that this administration could be doing to support the build of the IU program.
 
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Wanted to post before the end of the Kentucky game because the outcome is meaningless to my question. Isn't this program slowly fading to mediocre at best? Is our coach just running on the fumes/talent left behind by Coach Smith? I see 2 players our current staff has brought in over 3 years that are even slightly better than average(Lloyd and Butler)
I see maybe 2 arms, maybe, that are slightly better than mid d-1 level. We finished 6th in the big ten, a mediocre league. Yes, a good RPI somehow but anyone who has watched the last 2 years has to see the lack of talent and "coaching them up"
Do we make a regime change or accept going back to being 6-8 in conference and just a bunch of guys? Need outside opinions because my friends and I are getting tired of complaining to each other.

DBlPy8NXcAARCj_.jpg:large
 
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Wanted to post before the end of the Kentucky game because the outcome is meaningless to my question. Isn't this program slowly fading to mediocre at best? Is our coach just running on the fumes/talent left behind by Coach Smith? I see 2 players our current staff has brought in over 3 years that are even slightly better than average(Lloyd and Butler)
I see maybe 2 arms, maybe, that are slightly better than mid d-1 level. We finished 6th in the big ten, a mediocre league. Yes, a good RPI somehow but anyone who has watched the last 2 years has to see the lack of talent and "coaching them up"
Do we make a regime change or accept going back to being 6-8 in conference and just a bunch of guys? Need outside opinions because my friends and I are getting tired of complaining to each other.

I wish I were more organized and was picking your entire post apart all at once, but there's just so much wrong with it, it's hard to keep it all in one reply.

the 'mediocre' Big Ten (yes, it is historically) has risen over the past 5 years to above average to good. It's not the SEC. It's not the ACC. But they got 5 teams in this year. PAC-12....4 teams.

Gone are the years of the Big Ten only getting a single team into the regionals. That hasn't happened since 2011. They've gotten 5 teams in this year and in 2015. Three teams in 2014
 
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