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Meanwhile, Guv is upgrading us to Stage 5

Sort of. Going to modify original Stage 5 to require maintenance of certain social distancing provisions. New executive order expected tomorrow.
Is it just me, or did they order the stages backwards? Seems to me that Stage 1 should be good, and Stage 5 bad. I understand it's for purposes of reopening things, removing restrictions, etc., but naming it Stage 5 seems to assume that it will not be necessary to return to, say, Stage 4.
 
Is it just me, or did they order the stages backwards? Seems to me that Stage 1 should be good, and Stage 5 bad. I understand it's for purposes of reopening things, removing restrictions, etc., but naming it Stage 5 seems to assume that it will not be necessary to return to, say, Stage 4.
Same as DEFCON levels, I guess. Level 5 is normal readiness and Level 1 is nuclear war is imminent.
 
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Nope. Scuttlebutt I'm hearing is that this means restaurants and bars effectively stay at Stage 4.

That may be it, here is the wording from WXIN in Indy:

Restaurants and bars may be open at full capacity with physical distancing measures remaining in place. Capacity levels at gyms and fitness centers have also been lifted and facilities can open with continued distancing and sanitation precautions.​
 
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That may be it, here is the wording from WXIN in Indy:

Restaurants and bars may be open at full capacity with physical distancing measures remaining in place. Capacity levels at gyms and fitness centers have also been lifted and facilities can open with continued distancing and sanitation precautions.​
In real life, the capacity of restaurants and bars will continue to be determined by a combination of company policy and the willingness of county health officials to enforce the rules. Here in Allen County, you'll find sparsely populated dining rooms almost everywhere, but in some of the surrounding counties, only the chains are following the rules, and you can find people packed like sardines in smaller local joints.
 
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In real life, the capacity of restaurants and bars will continue to be determined by a combination of company policy and the willingness of county health officials to enforce the rules. Here in Allen County, you'll find sparsely populated dining rooms almost everywhere, but in some of the surrounding counties, only the chains are following the rules, and you can find people packed like sardines in smaller local joints.

Unless you're a BBQ joint just south of Ft Wayne. Then you blatantly flaunt not following the rules, tell the health dept to go f themselves, and then whine and cry when your restaurant is shut down by said health dept.
 
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The lessons learned from the pandemic is crystal. Communications needs to be consistent throughout the country. They all need to agree to a simple standard. Its mindboggling whats being or rather what's not being done.

We use a simple traffic light indicator here. Plus there is a consistent message to the keys for success. (Face, hands, space.)
 
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The lessons learned from the pandemic is crystal. Communications needs to be consistent throughout the country. They all need to agree to a simple standard. Its mindboggling whats being or rather what's not being done.

We use a simple traffic light indicator here. Plus there is a consistent message to the keys for success. (Face, hands, space.)
Yeah but you live in a dinky little country/state/county/city/island that’s all one in the same, with an arguably semi-authoritarian government controlled by the same party for its entire existence. Am I right? Who’s going to implement a single standard of action in the US? It’s not possible, and no one has the authority to even try it.
 
Yeah but you live in a dinky little country/state/county/city/island that’s all one in the same, with an arguably semi-authoritarian government controlled by the same party for its entire existence. Am I right? Who’s going to implement a single standard of action in the US? It’s not possible, and no one has the authority to even try it.

There is an article in Foreign Affairs blaming American Exceptionalism for our pathetic response. Bottom line, we did not need to learn from other nations how to respond because whatever we did was bound to be better. That doesn't do the idea justice, but makes the point. After long debates here about what we can learn from other countries on health care and how the general reply is, "absolutely nothing", there might be something to this point.

 
There is an article in Foreign Affairs blaming American Exceptionalism for our pathetic response. Bottom line, we did not need to learn from other nations how to respond because whatever we did was bound to be better. That doesn't do the idea justice, but makes the point. After long debates here about what we can learn from other countries on health care and how the general reply is, "absolutely nothing", there might be something to this point.

To me, the bigger problem is that we were (and still are) politically and culturally incapable of doing what was really needed to curb Covid.
 
Yeah but you live in a dinky little country/state/county/city/island that’s all one in the same, with an arguably semi-authoritarian government controlled by the same party for its entire existence. Am I right? Who’s going to implement a single standard of action in the US? It’s not possible, and no one has the authority to even try it.

See what Marvin said and its something I have said many times.
The arrogance/excuses for not learning from others -- including, in this case, the implempletation of a prepared pandemic game plan to even something as simple as getting testkits from Korea back in Feb -- led to a vacuum of inaction which led to thousands of avoidable deaths.

Many things or lessons in this case are transferrable. Like how you manage a small company can be transferrable to a larger corporation or vice versa. Or the best in breed concept.
Otherwise, people who work at large MNCs have no hope in hell to work in a small operation or v.v.

They are not mutually exclusive. And the same as comparing with countries.

FYI. the little dinky nation has all the conditions necessary for a blowup like a NYC. People living in close quarters.
 
To me, the bigger problem is that we were (and still are) politically and culturally incapable of doing what was really needed to curb Covid.

I marvel at the IHME rrports that 30% of Hoosiers are wearing masks. You Buckeyes are at 40%, congrats. It is amazing to me that such a simple solution cannot get above such paltry numbers.
 
FYI. the little dinky nation has all the conditions necessary for a blowup like a NYC. People living in close quarters.
Ahhh but NYC does not have citizenry that follow rules and guidelines instead of screaming about their right to not wear a mask, their right not to participate in contract tracing, etc.
 
Ahhh but NYC does not have citizenry that follow rules and guidelines instead of screaming about their right to not wear a mask, their right not to participate in contract tracing, etc.

Dunno. My sister lived through it, smack in the middle of the city. People understood the gravity of the situation early on and were fairly compliant after that. (Close quarter living and all.) New Yorkers became very 'asian'.

I think you are not giving the various governments around the world for the successful implementation of their respective pandemic plans. For in this case, asians, where they either have authoritian goverments or culturally compliant citizens.
Maybe its about a smart leadership? In times of trouble, people will always look to the government for help -- you see this in every hurricane season. You don't call the folks there ''citizenry that follow rules and guidelines''?
When it comes to ''life & death'' challenges, a smart government is required. For other circumstances, they have to set the environment for private sector to flourish.
Covid-19 is one of those life & death situations where a government has to step up -- whether they by-pass the Feds which isn't ideal which financially/budgetary-wise they would have a lot more flexibility. Or the state governments need to work together in that vacuum.
 
To me, the bigger problem is that we were (and still are) politically and culturally incapable of doing what was really needed to curb Covid.
I'm not sure I agree with this assessment. I've been as depressed as anyone by the poor response by our citizens to COVID. But ultimately I am convinced we would have taken a different path with rational leadership.

There were never any shared goals associated with wearing masks, like returning to school in the fall or getting people back to work. In fact, the message from the President has been that not wearing a mask is a way to minimize the threat of COVID. So how could we expect any rational, unified response?
 

This reads like they willfully, flagrantly broke the rules:

The closure stems from a Sept. 16 incident. The health department determined, after consultation with representatives from IU, local law enforcement and the fraternity chapter, that members of Alpha Epsilon Pi “intentionally instituted, permitted, or maintained conditions which may transmit the spread of COVID-19,” according to the release. Those members may have also initially provided false information to law enforcement about their actions.​
“Upon further investigation, a pattern of behavior was uncovered, which created conditions that had put the health of residents of Monroe County at risk of becoming infected with COVID-19,” according to the release.​
The health department, through its legal counsel, notified members of the fraternity chapter that it would petition to seek an injunction to prevent similar behavior in the future and to seek fines, unless immediate action was taken. On Wednesday, the health department announced IU and Alpha Epsilon Pi leadership reached an agreement to close the chapter house.​
 
I'm not sure I agree with this assessment. I've been as depressed as anyone by the poor response by our citizens to COVID. But ultimately I am convinced we would have taken a different path with rational leadership.

There were never any shared goals associated with wearing masks, like returning to school in the fall or getting people back to work. In fact, the message from the President has been that not wearing a mask is a way to minimize the threat of COVID. So how could we expect any rational, unified response?
Oh I agree 100% that we would be in a far better situation right now if had had effective leadership. But I still think we would be worse off than most other developed countries.
 
Europe's in their 2nd Wave. The US isn't even out of its 1st. Big diff.
Why is everyone so freaking obsessed with which “wave” we‘re in? What the hell matters? All I see are a bunch of cases with no to minimal symptoms. It’s time to stop the madness & get out of our bunker mentality. Our kids are going to pay for this BS for years to come.
 
Why is everyone so freaking obsessed with which “wave” we‘re in? What the hell matters? All I see are a bunch of cases with no to minimal symptoms. It’s time to stop the madness & get out of our bunker mentality. Our kids are going to pay for this BS for years to come.
🙄 🙄
 
Why is everyone so freaking obsessed with which “wave” we‘re in? What the hell matters? All I see are a bunch of cases with no to minimal symptoms. It’s time to stop the madness & get out of our bunker mentality. Our kids are going to pay for this BS for years to come.

So as long as nobody you know is dead this whole thing is BS? Good luck with that.
 
Why is everyone so freaking obsessed with which “wave” we‘re in? What the hell matters? All I see are a bunch of cases with no to minimal symptoms. It’s time to stop the madness & get out of our bunker mentality. Our kids are going to pay for this BS for years to come.

Go to the state of Indiana dashboard and look at counties like Pike, Davies, Knox and look at hospitalizations. Those three currently have over 100 hospitalized, each.
 
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The wearing of masks becoming a political issue is the stupidest thing of my life time. I was at a church service this week where masks were required. A number of assholes had to prove they were assholes by refusing to wear the mask correctly. The “my freedom” is just another way to say that Im a huge baby and not a fully functioning adult.
 
Go to the state of Indiana dashboard and look at counties like Pike, Davies, Knox and look at hospitalizations. Those three currently have over 100 hospitalized, each.
all I know is I live in Georgia... you know, the state that was railed on for allowing us to continue to live like real people... And guess what? We had a peak, our numbers are falling drastically, and we did very little in the way of lockdown, etc... I'm proud to live here and the way our governor has handled this has made me more of a fan. We are absolutely no worse off than anywhere else in the USA. Once again, I'll say that I believe what I see with my own eyes, not what the media and so called experts with agendas are telling us.
 
all I know is I live in Georgia... you know, the state that was railed on for allowing us to continue to live like real people... And guess what? We had a peak, our numbers are falling drastically, and we did very little in the way of lockdown, etc... I'm proud to live here and the way our governor has handled this has made me more of a fan. We are absolutely no worse off than anywhere else in the USA. Once again, I'll say that I believe what I see with my own eyes, not what the media and so called experts with agendas are telling us.
If you're proud of Kemp you are hopeless. Georgia has one of the highest death rates in the country. My brothers live there and they hate him.

Case and death counts by place
DeathsCases
Adj. for populationTotals
PlaceTotal reported deaths per 100kNew deaths in last 7 days per 100kChange in daily deaths in last 7 days
Guam245
North Dakota283.633%
Florida682.8-2%
Georgia662.819%
Missouri322.8155%
Mississippi962.7-24%
Arkansas422.4-65%
South Carolina662.1-19%
Texas552-5%
Virginia371.9-18%
Montana161.850%
Rhode Island1051.750%
Tennessee351.7-12%
Alabama521.67%
Arizona801.6-9%
North Carolina331.5-4%
West Virginia181.5-20%
Louisiana1161.4-33%
Massachusetts1371.415%
Nevada541.4-33%
South Dakota241.4-33%
California391.3-17%
Iowa411.30%
Delaware661.1100%
Idaho271.1-25%
Nebraska241.1200%
Pennsylvania631.171%
Puerto Rico191.1-55%
Illinois6815%
Kansas210.9-45%
New Mexico410.90%
Ohio410.9-34%
Oklahoma250.9-25%
Indiana530.8-9%
Kentucky260.8-25%
Michigan710.838%
Maryland650.70%
Minnesota360.7-12%
Washington290.729%
Wisconsin220.5-17%
Colorado370.433%
Oregon130.40%
District of Columbia910.3
Hawaii90.3
New Jersey1810.30%
Connecticut1260.2
Maine110.2
Utah150.2
Wyoming90.2
Alaska60.1
New York1670.1-1%
American Samoa00
Northern Mariana Islands40
New Hampshire330
Virgin Islands180
Vermont
 
I marvel at the IHME rrports that 30% of Hoosiers are wearing masks. You Buckeyes are at 40%, congrats. It is amazing to me that such a simple solution cannot get above such paltry numbers.
That shocks me. I know when I am out, i.e Kroger, Costco, various restaurants, everybody is wearing a mask. I know some of these places require it, but even in places that don't, it is at 100% rate, at least what I see. It has been that way for at least 2-3 months.
 
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all I know is I live in Georgia... you know, the state that was railed on for allowing us to continue to live like real people... And guess what? We had a peak, our numbers are falling drastically, and we did very little in the way of lockdown, etc... I'm proud to live here and the way our governor has handled this has made me more of a fan. We are absolutely no worse off than anywhere else in the USA. Once again, I'll say that I believe what I see with my own eyes, not what the media and so called experts with agendas are telling us.

GA a largely rural state, averages 1,800 cases a day during reduced testing.

GA Positivity rates remains at 10%...double the "acceptable" rate.

GA cases are dominated by 18-29 year-olds who are most active and continue to drive the virus into more vulnerable demographics.

"No worse off than anywhere else in the USA" Bullshit...you are worse off than 90% (exactly) of the USA.

GA has NOTHING to brag about.

Man up and put your mask on...over your nose.
 
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