My cousin, who is an IU grad and Harvard grad told me this long ago … we would rue that decision. I hated MD's coaching, and I would have never believed it, but proving to be true. Now we're paying top dollar for NIT and "we just need more time". We had MD's "help is on the way" with way better expectations of competing every year then. Now we are in Crean (self-created) rebuild hell. Archie, does not appear to be the answer. KS or MD … again, could we do worse?
MD never got a pass ... or got paid ...
- Thread starter go_iu
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Davis inherited a final four caliber roster including the Big Ten POY.
He underachieved immediately relative to what Knight would have done in 01, and he was never able to build success on his own.
If you want a comparison, look at Nebraska. They are underachieving.
Indiana is a disappointment, but what do you do when you start 2 freshmen and 2 sophomores? You hope to get better the following year. Cream couldn't win with his own recruits after three seasons. It took two future top 5 NBA picks to get to 5th in the conference in year 4.
He underachieved immediately relative to what Knight would have done in 01, and he was never able to build success on his own.
If you want a comparison, look at Nebraska. They are underachieving.
Indiana is a disappointment, but what do you do when you start 2 freshmen and 2 sophomores? You hope to get better the following year. Cream couldn't win with his own recruits after three seasons. It took two future top 5 NBA picks to get to 5th in the conference in year 4.
Not defending Crean but his rosters the first 3 years were NOWHERE near this roster. This team has guys who were actually recruited. The fact we have a 5-star player with a look that he would rather be at the movies is a big problem. And, a coach who is the highest paid babysitter in the country.
I use the term “coach” loosely.
He also made it during his final season at IU (19-12 record overall) despite having his best player, DJ White, out for most of the year. Just saying.
This was the roster his 3rd year..... how is it "nowhere near" the current roster? Wtf does "actually recruited" mean?
No. Name Position Ht. Wt. Year Hometown/High School
0 Kory Barnett F 6–5 195 Jr. Rochester, Indiana / Rochester High School
1 Jordan Hulls G 6–0 172 So. Bloomington, Indiana / Bloomington High School South
2 Christian Watford F 6–8 230 So. Birmingham, Alabama / Shades Valley High School
3 Maurice Creek G 6–5 200 So. Oxon Hill, Maryland / Hargrave Military Academy
4 Victor Oladipo G 6–5 210 Fr. Hyattsville, Maryland / DeMatha High School
5 Jeremiah Rivers G 6–5 214 Sr. Winter Park, Florida / Georgetown University
10 Will Sheehey G/F 6–6 195 Fr. Stuart, Florida / The Sagemont School
11 Daniel Moore G 5–10 170 Jr. Carmel, Indiana/ Carmel High School
12 Verdell Jones III G 6–5 185 Jr. Champaign, Illinois / Champaign Central High School
15 Guy-Marc Michel C 7–0 277 Jr. Sainte-Marie, Martinique / North Idaho College
23 Bobby Capobianco F 6–9 235 So. Loveland, Ohio / Loveland High School
24 Jeff Howard F 6–8 225 Fr. Westfield, Indiana / Westfield High School
25 Tom Pritchard F 6–9 250 Jr. Westlake, Ohio / St. Edward High School
30 Matt Roth G 6–3 192 Jr. Washington, Illinois / Washington Community High School
32 Derek Elston F 6–9 235 So. Tipton, Indiana / Tipton High School
And if you really look at the numbers, Bobby Knight was 60-42 in the Big Ten during his last six seasons at IU. Davis was 55-41. That is pretty much a wash. I have never understood why nobody says that the deterioration of IU hoops did start with Knight but some excellence was restored,by Davis. Why wasn't Knight run out of town like Davis was?
rmk did everything he could to make Davis' time at IU miserable (sabotaged a number of recruits) and poisoned his relationship with coaches in the state
That was not a final four roster at all. It had a five star player with alot of good shooters but they were not athletic or highly rated. They went on a amazing run and even Dane Fife said they had no business going as far as they did.
This team has more talent than Creans third year team did. This team is massivly underachieving.
Said by someone who obviously has no idea what coaching entails, why having freshmen in key positions=inconsistent play, why playing with the same players in the same system=better play, or really much about the game other than "ball go through hoop". Why has the basketball IQ of our fans collectively decreased so much since around 2000...oh.... Seriously, you aren't the same guy who suggested Archie switch from pack line to man-to-man on the other thread, are you?
61-41. Wikipedia hasn't corrected for one of the vacated seasons from one of numerous big ten teams who cheated during that period of time. And that is one more big ten win per season despite Neil Reed, Luke Recker, and Jason Collier all transferring and Charlie Miller, Mandeville, Eggers, Foster, Hart, Hermon, Rawles, Moore, and Wilkerson all disappointing.
Despite all of that, Knight was still a full game per year in the Big Ten better, made the tourney every year, and sure as heck didnt finish 14-15 and 15-14 in consecutive seasons like Davis did.
For starters.
What? I never said anything about switching defenses. I say give Archie at least 6 years to get this thing going. He needs at least 5 years of his own recruits at a minimum.
The day Jeffries signed I literally told anyone who would listen that this team would go to the Final Four. I signed onto Peegs to follow the Jeffries recruitment. It was a new thing. We could also listen to broadcast.com by a certain Dallas Mavs owner to listen to IU games on the "world wide web".
Underachieving but Archie has a single recruiting class with 2 players out all season. If they suck again next year then we know it is the coach.
If they go 12 -8 in the conference next year and make the dance, all will be righted.
I see a lot of growth in Al, Davis is playing with committment, and Rob has been a good freshman. There are positives. Miller will need to find more and build on them.
Clear as day though, Indiana cannot shoot. They miss when they are open. A few guys will look a lot better if they keep working.
I agree with this. I grew up in eastern Pennsylvania and didn’t know anything about Indiana until I moved here in the mid 60s. Being from outside the area, the quickest way to make friends was to root for the local favorite, so I did. Rooting for IU was what seemed to be the norm and so I did. I got attached to the ‘68 football team more so than any other IU squad and to this day that’s why I’m more of an IU football than basketball fan. Most people think I am crazy for that but to me it seems like being a basketball fan was the cheaper and easier decision. Those ‘68 football guys played their ass off and were the last IU team to go to the Rose Bowl. Sure the basketball team has won a couple national championships since then and that’s great because I am their fan too. But football proved it over the whole season and not just the tourney, go IU!
Kn
Ans- He essentially was, it was just a slower process because Knight gave us banners, had a more captivating personality, was a better fundraiser for the university and still routinely made the post season tournament. Compared to Davis Knight was so much more when taking other things into consideration than just W/L records. Knight’s firing wasn’t as abrupt as it might appear. The process had already begun when it happened, it just had to be made to play out so that it could be done legally via a fabricated policy instigated to assure his final failure. It would be interesting to know how IU basketball would be today if Knight had gone out on his own terms. I can’t imagine it being any worse than the ongoing struggles we’ve had for the last 20 years with no real end in sight. Hell, I remember Davis calling in sick an hour before a home game with Iowa, only later to give us some mumbo-jumbo about being too afraid to come out of his basement like it was the fault of the IU fans as being the reason for his acute bout of paranoia. Have we forgotten him running out onto the court in frustration before the end of the Kentucky game, threatening to attack the referee who made a questionable call? I, for one, haven’t.
First, running out on the court does not compare too well with throwing chairs at a referee and to be clear, we both have heard the rumors as to why Davis really called in sick. Perhaps we both would have done the same thing. Whether there was any actual threat on Davis's life, the rumors were real and out there.
Sort of like Hazell in Waste Laffy.
Don't think you want to compare the generally conservative, blue collar and rural student population and alumni of PU with the generally centrist and liberal more urban white collar student population of IU.
But you are not smart enough to help yourself.
Coming so closely on the heels of Knight’s firing for stunts like that, yes, Davis running to mid court threatening of a referee was a big deal at the time. When is the last time you’ve seen a college coach do that on TV? (never) Knight did not throw a chair at a referree, he slid his plastic chair across the foul lane as a Purdue player was preparing to shoot a free throw in protest of a bullshit call that took place right in front of him. “The rumors were real and out there” whether there was an actual threat to his life or not....I like that one! So let me get this straight then since if it happened to us, you think we would do the same chicken-shit thing....Davis was overcome with an acute bout of paranoia resulting from a fear of assassination, whether real or delusional. It’s a relatively common malady that inflicts college coaches struggling to please the disgruntled fans of losing programs. That’s why IU leads the country today with their security checks, just to make sure our coach never misses a game again due to the paralyzing fear of possible assassination attempts. Got it, Dude!
Who threw chairs at referees? Missed that one. Was it the same guy that threw an LSU fan in a trash can, slugged a PR cop or "pulled his team off the floor" vs the Ruskies?
You're breathing too much of the air at Dunn Meadow. Hazell coached for four years and was 3-24 in conference before getting fired. The worst coach in Purdue football history.
As far as Monroe County being more liberal than Tippecanoe County and that somehow equating to being more racially tolerant...well the fine dem politicians in Virginia and elsewhere are proving that they're the true racists. Now stagger back down to the meadow and continue to free your mind.
Some things in IU basketball history are probably best forgotten. The action by Davis, or perhaps it’s best to say the lack of action was a sad statement of the direction are program was heading.
Don’t be disparaging anything Dunn Meadow there. That “air” wafting through the towering cypress trees alongside Jordan River is what helped get me through the grueling demands of academia. May the spirit of Dunn Meadow always be with us!
I didn't spend much time in DM other than walking through but to say students in WL are somehow more progressive and liberal overall than this in Btown is simply laughable. But this is how we know Hunkgolden.
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