Mark me down in the 'Biden has already missed his window' camp...

[Ohio Guy]

I don't think this is some Freudian slip or anything like that, but at a campaign stop in Iowa, Biden said "poor kids are just as talented as white kids".

I like Joe. I think his heart is probably in the right place. This misstatement alone doesn't make me root against him, it's more the sum of his parts at this point.

For me, I'd like to see a ticket with either Cory Booker or Kamala Harris at the top with Joe using his platform as a former VP/top Dem to keep speaking out about issues he's passionate about.

 

[iuwclurker]

I don't think this is some Freudian slip or anything like that, but at a campaign stop in Iowa, Biden said "poor kids are just as talented as white kids".

I like Joe. I think his heart is probably in the right place. This misstatement alone doesn't make me root against him, it's more the sum of his parts at this point.

For me, I'd like to see a ticket with either Cory Booker or Kamala Harris at the top with Joe using his platform as a former VP/top Dem to keep speaking out about issues he's passionate about.

HE also allegedly misspoke after the El Paso and Dayton tragedies, referring to ?? and Michigan. He goofs up all the time. Problem is, he's the only viable candidate who's getting any traction. The others are all massively too far left. Booker definitely isn't going to beat Trump and Kamala has serious question marks too. Warren has no chance against Trump and Bernie's fading.

The ironic factor with Biden is that he can win winner-take-all primaries with only 35% of the votes, a la Trump 2016. Are there enough such primaries to get him over the line? I'm not saying that's a good thing. If he continues to slip geriatrically, that could be a disaster.

I think the Democrats' best chance is to get referendums in most or all states on issues that won't increase Republican turnout but will increase Democratic turnout, like environmental issues, something about racism maybe, or guns, although guns might be too hot a topic to help. A gun referendum might backfire.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

HE also allegedly misspoke after the El Paso and Dayton tragedies, referring to ?? and Michigan. He goofs up all the time. Problem is, he's the only viable candidate who's getting any traction. The others are all massively too far left. Booker definitely isn't going to beat Trump and Kamala has serious question marks too. Warren has no chance against Trump and Bernie's fading.

The ironic factor with Biden is that he can win winner-take-all primaries with only 35% of the votes, a la Trump 2016. Are there enough such primaries to get him over the line? I'm not saying that's a good thing. If he continues to slip geriatrically, that could be a disaster.

I think the Democrats' best chance is to get referendums in most or all states on issues that won't increase Republican turnout but will increase Democratic turnout, like environmental issues, something about racism maybe, or guns, although guns might be too hot a topic to help. A gun referendum might backfire.

The Democrats eliminated all winner-take-all primaries, part of democratizing the process.

 

[iuwclurker]

The Democrats eliminated all winner-take-all primaries, part of democratizing the process.

Cool. Too bad the Republicans didn't foresee that flaw.

 

[twenty02]

All this kind of stuff makes zero impact.

See current POTUS for confirmation of that.

 

[iuwclurker]

All this kind of stuff makes zero impact.

See current POTUS for confirmation of that.

The gaffes only make Biden seem more real. The problem is, is he slipping? That's a serious question that everyone's going to ask.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I don't think this is some Freudian slip or anything like that, but at a campaign stop in Iowa, Biden said "poor kids are just as talented as white kids".

I like Joe. I think his heart is probably in the right place. This misstatement alone doesn't make me root against him, it's more the sum of his parts at this point.

For me, I'd like to see a ticket with either Cory Booker or Kamala Harris at the top with Joe using his platform as a former VP/top Dem to keep speaking out about issues he's passionate about.

But what about Asians?

 

[Harry Hondo]

I don't think this is some Freudian slip or anything like that, but at a campaign stop in Iowa, Biden said "poor kids are just as talented as white kids".

I like Joe. I think his heart is probably in the right place. This misstatement alone doesn't make me root against him, it's more the sum of his parts at this point.

For me, I'd like to see a ticket with either Cory Booker or Kamala Harris at the top with Joe using his platform as a former VP/top Dem to keep speaking out about issues he's passionate about.

You may like others, but Joe is likely the only one who can win. Dems need to nominate him if they want to get rid of Trump.

Perhaps one of the other fringe candidates will gain momentum, but I think we’re living in a moment where the only candidate the Dems can win with has to be a moderate and most likely white.

 

[UncleMark]

All this kind of stuff makes zero impact.

See current POTUS for confirmation of that.

No kidding. It's comical that people are making an issue of Biden's stumbles when the current idiot couldn't string together a coherent sentence if his life depended on it. Hell, he can't even get one out when reading from a teleprompter.

You may like others, but Joe is likely the only one who can win. Dems need to nominate him if they want to get rid of Trump.

He may not be the only one, but I'm not willing to take the chance. Trump needs to be removed, and if Joe has the best chance of doing so, then that's that. Policy questions have to take a back seat to disinfecting the executive branch.

 

[twenty02]

The gaffes only make Biden seem more real. The problem is, is he slipping? That's a serious question that everyone's going to ask.

Biden's been making verbal gaffes for 40 years

 

[twenty02]

No kidding. It's comical that people are making an issue of Biden's stumbles when the current idiot couldn't string together a coherent sentence if his life depended on it. Hell, he can't even get one out when reading from a teleprompter.

He may not be the only one, but I'm not willing to take the chance. Trump needs to be removed, and if Joe has the best chance of doing so, then that's that. Policy questions have to take a back seat to disinfecting the executive branch.

Biden Has the Right Strategy
Even if the former vice president is the wrong candidate, voters like his centrist approach.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/biden-centrist-campaign-strategy.html

 

[UncleMark]

Biden Has the Right Strategy
Even if the former vice president is the wrong candidate, voters like his centrist approach.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/biden-centrist-campaign-strategy.html

Yeah, I read that. He's got a good take on the reality of the situation we find ourselves in. Joe can win, and his policy positions are such that he won't be subject to attacks about Socialism! and Free Stuff! like many of the others. Once in office, how much he will be able to accomplish will all come down to what the Senate looks like. In fact, I have to believe Biden at the top of the ticket will give the Dems the best chance (still slim) of taking the Senate in 2020 as well.

 

[Harry Hondo]

No kidding. It's comical that people are making an issue of Biden's stumbles when the current idiot couldn't string together a coherent sentence if his life depended on it. Hell, he can't even get one out when reading from a teleprompter.

He may not be the only one, but I'm not willing to take the chance. Trump needs to be removed, and if Joe has the best chance of doing so, then that's that. Policy questions have to take a back seat to disinfecting the executive branch.

Biden Has the Right Strategy
Even if the former vice president is the wrong candidate, voters like his centrist approach.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/biden-centrist-campaign-strategy.html

Yes, the country is begging for moderation. Those Dems who are far left and Trump being “crazy” right has made a lot of us longing for the middle.

Let’s make politics boring again. Please.

 

[IUclover]

I don't think this is some Freudian slip or anything like that, but at a campaign stop in Iowa, Biden said "poor kids are just as talented as white kids".

I like Joe. I think his heart is probably in the right place. This misstatement alone doesn't make me root against him, it's more the sum of his parts at this point.

For me, I'd like to see a ticket with either Cory Booker or Kamala Harris at the top with Joe using his platform as a former VP/top Dem to keep speaking out about issues he's passionate about.

I like Booker but for some reason question how genuine he really is - just an instinct that may be wrong. Ideally, I’d like Bernie and another candidate who isn’t giving up a Senate seat that would be competitive. I’d also take a Warren and Pete as VP ticket. Warren’s sharper than Bernie overall but both have the right plan and message. Harris is probably my third - I’ve been a huge fan of hers in the Senate and will lobby for her when people bring up lame disqualifications.

Biden is a dud to me. More of the same and this country needs an overhaul and actual justice and oversight or those who do wrong. Maybe he can be VP for someone to attract those who aren’t as progressive.

I like Yang, Castro, and Klobuchar and would be fine with them as VP.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Biden's been making verbal gaffes for 40 years

Exactly. a long history. Interesting that some here seem surprised.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Biden is a dud to me. More of the same and this country needs an overhaul and actual justice and oversight or those who do wrong. Maybe he can be VP for someone to attract those who aren’t as progressive.

This just means you are very liberal. Subjecting this country to a far left President after one that some ITT consider "crazy right” (despite his non traditional conservative views on some issues) is going to further divide the country. A centrist or moderate liberal platform would do much more to heal the fractures instead of creating new ones.

Most people are not very liberal or very conservative.

 

[Harry Hondo]

Biden is a dud to me. More of the same and this country needs an overhaul and actual justice and oversight or those who do wrong. Maybe he can be VP for someone to attract those who aren’t as progressive.

This just means you are very liberal. Subjecting this country to a far left President after one that some ITT consider "crazy right” (despite his non traditional conservative views on some issues) is going to further divide the country. A centrist or moderate liberal platform would do much more to heal the fractures instead of creating new ones.

Most people are not very liberal or very conservative.

This might be the first time I’ve agreed with you. Well done!

 

[mashnut]

This just means you are very liberal. Subjecting this country to a far left President after one that some ITT consider "crazy right” (despite his non traditional conservative views on some issues) is going to further divide the country. A centrist or moderate liberal platform would do much more to heal the fractures instead of creating new ones.

Most people are not very liberal or very conservative.

It’s very neat and convenient for center-right folks to use their own party electing an imbecile to try to coerce the other party into nominating a conservative candidate. If a rational center-right politician is what you want, find that in the party that used to stand for that.

 

[IUclover]

This just means you are very liberal. Subjecting this country to a far left President after one that some ITT consider "crazy right” (despite his non traditional conservative views on some issues) is going to further divide the country. A centrist or moderate liberal platform would do much more to heal the fractures instead of creating new ones.

Most people are not very liberal or very conservative.

I understand what you’re saying but maybe the right has just moved further right while the left has remained neutral. Should the left continue to move further right? I’m not even what one would consider a crazy, progressive liberal and I’ve been presenting this same argument for around 6-7 years.

Put Biden as VP and he can tend to those fractures.

 

[HillzHoozier]

I understand what you’re saying but maybe the right has just moved further right while the left has remained neutral. Should the left continue to move further right? I’m not even what one would consider a crazy, progressive liberal and I’ve been presenting this same argument for around 6-7 years.

Put Biden as VP and he can tend to those fractures.

This is faulty and why Trump will win a second term.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I understand what you’re saying but maybe the right has just moved further right while the left has remained neutral. Should the left continue to move further right? I’m not even what one would consider a crazy, progressive liberal and I’ve been presenting this same argument for around 6-7 years.

Put Biden as VP and he can tend to those fractures.

Lol left has remained neutral? We're now hearing reparations, free college, elimination of student debt, free Healthcare, citizen benefits for non citizens, wealth taxes and re-regulation.

Give me a break. At least be honest with yourself.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

It’s very neat and convenient for center-right folks to use their own party electing an imbecile to try to coerce the other party into nominating a conservative candidate. If a rational center-right politician is what you want, find that in the party that used to stand for that.

Own party? You're probably the kind of person that votes along party lines because you cannot fathom making tough decisions.

 

[iuwclurker]

I understand what you’re saying but maybe the right has just moved further right while the left has remained neutral. Should the left continue to move further right? I’m not even what one would consider a crazy, progressive liberal and I’ve been presenting this same argument for around 6-7 years.

Put Biden as VP and he can tend to those fractures.

Obamacare represents the first time in US history health care insurance companies cannot discriminate against pre-existing conditions and we basically have something resembling universal health care insurance. The only thing stopping Obamacare from being universal health care insurance is individuals opting to not elect to have the insurance.

A large percentage of the public weren't happy with Obamacare at first, to the extent that Republicans dominated the 2010 elections. Gradually public opinion of Obamacare became more positive, that is, it shifted to the left.

Now Biden wants to keep Obamacare but improve on it. All of the above show a shift to the left. For you and others here to suggest or imply that Biden represents some sort of shift to the right is plainly disingenuous and untruthful. Frankly, you're more closely resembling Republicans fabricating a bubble of untruth.

 

[Morrison]

Yeah, I’m not sure it’s a good idea for Democrats to race as far left as we can, as soon as we can. That’s what the Pubs did, and that party is full on looney tunes now. I’m a self described moderate Dem however, and I do understand the progressives argument. It’s just not good politics IMO.

Kamala Harris is a curious case in that I know she’s more moderate than the image she’s trying to project. She thinks she needs to be in the progressive lane to get the nomination. In fact, she’s a mirror image of Obama and Biden, politically.

 

[iuwclurker]

Let’s start here. For those who replied to my post and anyone else, do you support campaign finance reform, including challenging Citizens United. Do you think the majority of republicans will vote for or make this a priority? Yes, I understand not all democrats will be fully supportive.

Citizens United is a SC decision. What are you proposing? New legislation? That currently takes 60 senators. 2020 prognostications are tough sledding for Democrats to get to 50 + VP.

The litmus test being propagated right now is MfA. Bullock was roundly ridiculed by leftists after the 2nd debate as too moderate even though he may have been the best out there. Meanwhile, poll after poll shows public support (not talking about just republicans) for MfA far below improving Obamacare. How in the world are you going to get anywhere in the direction of controlling the Senate, to say nothing of 60 votes, if you ridicule Democratic candidates who far better represent the broad public?

I'm not advocating for or against MfA as policy or as preferable. I'm addressing how to put Democrats in position to support campaign finance reform or anything else that can't be mandated by Executive Directive.

 

[hoosboot]

Yeah, I’m not sure it’s a good idea for Democrats to race as far left as we can, as soon as we can. That’s what the Pubs did, and that party is full on looney tunes now. I’m a self described moderate Dem however, and I do understand the progressives argument. It’s just not good politics IMO.

Kamala Harris is a curious case in that I know she’s more moderate than the image she’s trying to project. She thinks she needs to be in the progressive lane to get the nomination. In fact, she’s a mirror image of Obama and Biden, politically.

Harris is following the classic roadmap of run to the left (in the Democratic Party/right in the GOP) in the primary and then move center in the general. She's a very Obama Democrat.

 

[twenty02]

I like Booker but for some reason question how genuine he really is - just an instinct that may be wrong. Ideally, I’d like Bernie and another candidate who isn’t giving up a Senate seat that would be competitive. I’d also take a Warren and Pete as VP ticket. Warren’s sharper than Bernie overall but both have the right plan and message. Harris is probably my third - I’ve been a huge fan of hers in the Senate and will lobby for her when people bring up lame disqualifications.

Biden is a dud to me. More of the same and this country needs an overhaul and actual justice and oversight or those who do wrong. Maybe he can be VP for someone to attract those who aren’t as progressive.

I like Yang, Castro, and Klobuchar and would be fine with them as VP.

The country needs an overhaul?

LOL.

An economy that's at 3.5% unemployment, negligible inflation, dominates the world economically and militarily... and it needs overhauled?

We can always do better, but this kind of nonsense is why Dems lose elections more often than not.

 

[Morrison]

The country needs an overhaul?

LOL.

An economy that's at 3.5% unemployment, negligible inflation, dominates the world economically and militarily... and it needs overhauled?

We can always do better, but this kind of nonsense is why Dems lose elections more often than not.

I hear ya man, but in fairness I think he/she’s referring to having a psychopath in the Oval Office and all the corruption...

 

[twenty02]

I hear ya man, but in fairness I think he/she’s referring to having a psychopath in the Oval Office and all the corruption...

I didn't take it as that....it was Biden was old and boring and wouldn't deliver the drastic "change" we need.

I just want normal people that don't drive huge wedges in our society. Govt is overrated and doesn't provide much in the way of solutions, but they can provide a lot of problems by dividing people into groups, via terrible leaders (like we have now).

I disagreed with policy positions of prior admins of both parties. People disagree. Never felt any of them were leading us into a ruinous cycle of pitting people against each other until lately. Now it's almost all we are offered.

If your offer is that the right/left solution is the best for us all...,then I'm ok with it. Make your point.

If your base idea is we are going to pit group A vs group B.... I'm out.

 

[Zizkov]

Lol left has remained neutral? We're now hearing reparations, free college, elimination of student debt, free Healthcare, citizen benefits for non citizens, wealth taxes and re-regulation.

Give me a break. At least be honest with yourself.

The left hasn't gone nearly as far left as the GOP has gone right. Unless you have other info that shows this to be incorrect. I haven't read extensively on it, but it matches what I have seen on a daily basis:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...l?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

The left hasn't gone nearly as far left as the GOP has gone right. Unless you have other info that shows this to be incorrect. I haven't read extensively on it, but it matches what I have seen on a daily basis:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...l?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

Based on what criteria?

I need to move to Denmark

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Biden may turn out to be a great candidate. But his name has been linked to every presidential race in American history. Ok, that is an exaggeration, every one since the civil war. If he is such a great candidate, why did he never come close to winning?

I have heard it said the Dems cannot afford Dukakis. Biden lost to Dukakis, one of the few people to manage that feat.

Biden needs to go out and prove he can inspire people to vote FOR him. On a rainy, cold, blustery November day in PA, WI, and MI, getting people to turn out FOR a boring safe choice may be hard. Counting on people to turn out only because they hate Trump is far from guaranteed. Uncle Joe needs to inspire people. "Trump is an idiot and everyone else is marxist" is not inspirational.

The only thing stopping Obamacare from being universal health care insurance is individuals opting to not elect to have the insurance.

Actually, a whole lot of Americans still cannot afford insurance. Or they can afford the insurance but not the deductible. Insurance is not care. Source.

 

[iuwclurker]

Biden may turn out to be a great candidate. But his name has been linked to every presidential race in American history. Ok, that is an exaggeration, every one since the civil war. If he is such a great candidate, why did he never come close to winning?

I have heard it said the Dems cannot afford Dukakis. Biden lost to Dukakis, one of the few people to manage that feat.

Biden needs to go out and prove he can inspire people to vote FOR him. On a rainy, cold, blustery November day in PA, WI, and MI, getting people to turn out FOR a boring safe choice may be hard. Counting on people to turn out only because they hate Trump is far from guaranteed. Uncle Joe needs to inspire people. "Trump is an idiot and everyone else is marxist" is not inspirational.

He inspires in me the confidence he’ll be an experienced, no-nonsense, sensible, wise, statesperson of a president.

And even in his current incarnation, if there is some slippage, he still comes across as far more of the above than anyone else running except maybe Bullock.

Actually, a whole lot of Americans still cannot afford insurance. Or they can afford the insurance but not the deductible. Insurance is not care. Source.

Fair enough. It is true Obamacare went up in price significantly after the first year.

That doesn’t undercut my point whatsoever, though. It still represent a huge step to the left in our politics from pre-Obamacare. Look at how many people were affordably treated for their catastrophic health situation. Do you disagree?

 

[Cortez88]

The Democrats just need to run to win. Win elections at all levels in all places. Do what you have to do to accomplish that first and then do policy. Run against Trump for his danger to our country, his unfitness for office and his corruption. Run on the GOP taking away healthcare with absolutely no plan of their own. Run on inequality and the tax cut. Run on gun control. This are big ticket items and all poll very well. They also don’t require a wonkiness level that the average Joe will not get into.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

He inspires in me the confidence he’ll be an experienced, no-nonsense, sensible, wise, statesperson of a president.

The problem becomes the gaffes, every stupid gaffe is a reminder he may not be super competent.

That doesn’t undercut my point whatsoever, though. It still represent a huge step to the left in our politics from pre-Obamacare. Look at how many people were affordably treated for their catastrophic health situation. Do you disagree?

I am sure many obtained treatment. That is good, but far from where we want to be.

Look at the difference in how the parties handle this question. The GOP starts with "we are going to go out and double the largest tax cut for billionaires in history". After negotiations whittle that down, they pass simply the biggest billionaire tax cut in history. The Dems start with "we are going to insure a couple more people", where does that go after negotiations? Even if the Dems get to 50 in the Senate, you will need 10 Republicans. If your opening negotiation is status quo, I guarantee you are leaving with a cut. This is why the country keeps sliding further and further to banana republic.

 

[Rockfish1]

If Biden is the nominee I'll absolutely vote for him, but this whole Great White Hope thing is mostly wishful thinking. Electability is very hard to assess, voters are lousy at it, and polling at this stage tells us almost nothing about the general election. Biden himself is too old, he's out of step, he's a gaffe machine, he's been a lousy presidential candidate in the past, and his stumbles are attracting a lot of attention.

I understand the desire for a generic moderate white guy, but Joe Biden isn't just a generic moderate white guy. He's the specific person named Joe Biden, and it's much less obvious to me than it is to most others that the specific person named Joe Biden really is the likeliest candidate to beat Trump. So I remain deep in wait-and-see mode, without having chosen any candidate to support.

 

[Rockfish1]

If Biden is the nominee I'll absolutely vote for him, but this whole Great White Hope thing is mostly wishful thinking. Electability is very hard to assess, voters are lousy at it, and polling at this stage tells us almost nothing about the general election. Biden himself is too old, he's out of step, he's a gaffe machine, he's been a lousy presidential candidate in the past, and his stumbles are attracting a lot of attention.

I understand the desire for a generic moderate white guy, but Joe Biden isn't just a generic moderate white guy. He's the specific person named Joe Biden, and it's much less obvious to me than it is to most others that the specific person named Joe Biden really is the likeliest candidate to beat Trump. So I remain deep in wait-and-see mode, without having chosen any candidate to support.

I also think people are over-learning what are (probably mistakenly) thought to be the lessons of 2016. Poli sci types said that a generic Republican would have been favored in 2016. Hillary still got 3 million more votes -- even though she was an extremely unpopular candidate -- but lost in the electoral college based on the distribution of about 80,000 votes in three states. And that happened after James Comey's October surprise, which Nate Silver says was enough to tip the election to Trump, who had Putin helping him.

Maybe Democrats should just support whomever they think is the best candidate.

 

[hoosboot]

Biden may turn out to be a great candidate. But his name has been linked to every presidential race in American history. Ok, that is an exaggeration, every one since the civil war. If he is such a great candidate, why did he never come close to winning?

I have heard it said the Dems cannot afford Dukakis. Biden lost to Dukakis, one of the few people to manage that feat.

Um...Marvin...Biden actually ran for President twice before 1988 and 2008. That second time he ended up as VP. for eight years.

Know who else ran twice unsuccessfully for President before ultimately getting his party's nomination and winning...Ronald Reagan. Ask Republicans how they think that went.

I'm not specifically a Biden guy, but I'm really confused about all the hand-wringing about him.

 

[hoosboot]

Maybe Democrats should just support whomever they think is the best candidate.

Agree. Maybe that will turn out to be Biden. Time will tell. I like a lot of the candidates Democrats have to choose from.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Um...Marvin...Biden actually ran for President twice before 1988 and 2008. That second time he ended up as VP. for eight years.

Know who else ran twice unsuccessfully for President before ultimately getting his party's nomination and winning...Ronald Reagan. Ask Republicans how they think that went.

I'm not specifically a Biden guy, but I'm really confused about all the hand-wringing about him.

I said mentioned as a candidate, not ran. People born when he last ran will be 32 on election day.

My biggest complaint about Warren, Sanders, and Biden is they had their turn in the sun and look where we are. In a perfect world it is time to see if new blood can improve us.

I read a book last year on the Battle of Britain. A section of the book dealt with the fall of France. The author pointed out the age differences between German and French political and military leaders. Germany looked at new and innovative solutions to the problem of war with France, France looked to the solutions of 1914-1918. That has helped sell me on the belief it is time to stop being afraid of new ideas. I do not buy any of the three listed are ready to offer anything except what has been offered since 1972 (when Biden first went to the Senate).