Man, Sampson can coach

[bailey777]

also, I think that part of the problem with firing Crean was that when IU was replacing Davis, there was a lot of interest in the job by a lot of quality candidates. 2 years later, that interest basically disappeared with Crean being one of the few people willing to listen to IU, which the administration was highly concerned would be the case if it was perceived that IU fired Crean too soon. Even when IU did fire Crean, interest in the job was limited.

We don't really know that freddy zoned in on archie and the search was over. I wanted crean gone but in hindsight probably should of made darn sure you had a better option before you canned him. Instead they took a gamble of a mid major who had a defense that took four years to learn.

 

[82hoosier]

Just totally owned Brad Underwood today. That team is super fun to watch and I wouldn’t be surprised to see them back in the Final Four. In Hindsight, we were idiotic to get rid of him and pulled the trigger way too fast on something that would have blown over.

IU was idiotic to hire him.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

And some wanted to give him a fifth year. The four year unwritten rule is ridiculous.

I’m fine with an obligatory 4th year if it’s warranted by what’s transpired in the first 3. But not because “he can coach a team consisting of all his own players.” That’s poor reasoning that smacks of a lack of accountability.

For instance, I wouldn’t have denied Crean a 4th year. He inherited one of the worst situations in college basketball history: two returning walk-ons, recruiting sanctions, and a still-smoldering civil war. He asked for and got an extension before he took the floor for the first time. And understandably so. It was a hot mess.

 

[dbmhoosier]

IU was idiotic to hire him.

Were they idiotic to hire Davis, Crean, or Archie? I don't get Woody either as a 64 year old with no college experience but we'll see.

 

[GThomas]

Were they idiotic to hire Davis, Crean, or Archie? I don't get Woody either as a 64 year old with no college experience but we'll see.

Different circumstances. IU hired a guy in Sampson who had an NCAA cloud hanging over his head ... and they knew it. He may be a great coach, but it was a bad hire.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

The day all of that came out we beat a ranked team at home (I believe MSU) and our crowd chanted his name walking off the floor. We’re not any better than these other programs. It was only afterwards that the Crean cult turned him into a pariah to excuse Crean’s complete ineptitude.

You aren't even close here either.

IU was idiotic to hire him.

I remember exactly were I was when I got that call that he was hired. I was stunned that we would do that and we paid a heavy price for being so foolish.

 

[bailey777]

Were they idiotic to hire Davis, Crean, or Archie? I don't get Woody either as a 64 year old with no college experience but we'll see.

Gotta wonder how different Indiana basketball would look these days if Kelvin Sampson hadn’t made all those phone calls. …

1:05 PM · Mar 20, 2022·Twitter for iPhone

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@GoodmanHoops
They would have another banner or two if they weren’t too soft to stand by him

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Were they idiotic to hire Davis, Crean, or Archie? I don't get Woody either as a 64 year old with no college experience but we'll see.

As I said above, I wouldn’t have hired Woodson - despite thinking the world of him. I’d have gone after Pearl (with a leash).

Yeah, that has to do with being in Evansville and having seen his USI teams up close. I’ve advocated for him in the past, too. But the guy’s teams win and win big. They’re fun to watch and usually play hard. He can recruit like nobody’s business. As much success as he’s had at “football schools”, I’d love to see what he could do at a major “basketball school.”

But I always knew it wasn’t going to happen, for various reasons.

As for CMW, I was OK with the hire. He bleeds Cream & Crimson and has the NBA pedigree that means so much these days. Hiring him alongside Matta and Fife — like Michigan did with Howard and Martelli — was smart. They bring the college coaching pedigree that Woodson doesn’t have. And, if it goes well, then Fife can probably become coach-in-waiting for a smooth handoff like our pals up in WL did.

It’s something of an experiment. We’ll see. But remember that everybody was jazzed about hiring Archie. He was the hot name in coaching at that time. And how’d that work out for us?

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Gotta wonder how different Indiana basketball would look these days if Kelvin Sampson hadn’t made all those phone calls. …

1:05 PM · Mar 20, 2022·Twitter for iPhone

31
Retweets
10
Quote Replying to
@GoodmanHoops
They would have another banner or two if they weren’t too soft to stand by him

He would have been fired the same year for the even worse academic and drug transgressions

I could not care less about the phone calls.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Our crowd chanted his name after he was headline news for the infractions. Get off the moral high horse.

Lol. Has nothing to do with my “morals”. Do I have to simplify this further? I asked a very simple question. Half or more of the people saying, “we should’ve never fired Sampson”. Weren’t saying so at the time. I never said I wanted him or didn’t. So f-off as usual.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

As I said above, I wouldn’t have hired Woodson - despite thinking the world of him. I’d have gone after Pearl (with a leash).

Yeah, that has to do with being in Evansville and having seen his USI teams up close. I’ve advocated for him in the past, too. But the guy’s teams win and win big. They’re fun to watch and usually play hard. He can recruit like nobody’s business. As much success as he’s had at “football schools”, I’d love to see what he could do at a major “basketball school.”

But I always knew it wasn’t going to happen, for various reasons.

As for CMW, I was OK with the hire. He bleeds Cream & Crimson and has the NBA pedigree that means so much these days. Hiring him alongside Matta and Fife — like Michigan did with Howard and Martelli — was smart. They bring the college coaching pedigree that Woodson doesn’t have. And, if it goes well, then Fife can probably become coach-in-waiting for a smooth handoff like our pals up in WL did.

It’s something of an experiment. We’ll see. But remember that everybody was jazzed about hiring Archie. He was the hot name in coaching at that time. And how’d that work out for us?

I should add that I’m interested to see how Kenny Payne works out in Louisville. Payne is another guy I definitely would’ve considered. I bet he has a lot of success at UL.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Our crowd chanted his name after he was headline news for the infractions. Get off the moral high horse.

This is overstated. Some students thought IU should tell the ncaa to **** off and some of them chanted KS twice that I recall. I actually attend the games so happy to help here.
Oh and the students were not yet aware if the more serious infractions around academics when they were supporting him

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I’m just saying that what you saw in the 4th year to finally pull the plug was already well within evidence in the previous years. The problems weren’t going away, they were setting in. There was no good reason to think they would improve — other than hope. And hope can be a really tricky temptress.

What he did at Dayton was irrelevant. John Groce was successful at OU, too. It happens. And the quicker ADs recognize mistakes and correct them, the better. I know there’s a school of thought that coaches need 4 years. It’s a bad school of thought. That’s too much - unless there’s compelling evidence that things are headed in the right direction.

There was never a single day in Archie’s tenure where a reasonable person would conclude they were headed in the right direction.

We have differing opinions and we’re both reasonable people. I think it was plenty reasonable to think we were headed in the right direction after the third season and with the recruits coming in for his fourth. I honestly think it would have been extremely unreasonable to fire him after the third season. It was only reasonable after the fourth because the season ended in a meltdown AND someone ponied up the money for the buyout.

It’s all water under the bridge now. We have a new coach and reasonable hopes that he can get it done.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

We don't really know that freddy zoned in on archie and the search was over. I wanted crean gone but in hindsight probably should of made darn sure you had a better option before you canned him. Instead they took a gamble of a mid major who had a defense that took four years to learn.

Should HAVE. Also, Miller was considered by all the experts, including RMK, to be a great hire for IU. He didn’t work out, but no need to revise history.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

We have differing opinions and we’re both reasonable people. I think it was plenty reasonable to think we were headed in the right direction after the third season and with the recruits coming in for his fourth. I honestly think it would have been extremely unreasonable to fire him after the third season. It was only reasonable after the fourth because the season ended in a meltdown AND someone ponied up the money for the buyout.

It’s all water under the bridge now. We have a new coach and reasonable hopes that he can get it done.

Yeah, I know. I’m not calling you an unreasonable person. You know I don’t think that. And of course you’re also right that it’s water under the bridge.

But I still think it’s a discussion worth having — because it may not be the last time we find ourselves tempted to hang on to a failed coach. Not that it’ll ever be our decision of course. 😏

But, you’re right, I totally disagree that it was unreasonable to fire him after the 3rd season for the reason I’ve cited: the problems that had bedeviled us in Years 1-3 were obviously not going away. They weren’t getting better. They had become expected. The meltdown the following year only came as a surprise to people who either didn’t see this or refused to acknowledge it.

It was a costly mistake that we should be careful not to repeat in the future. Give them enough time to right the ship — but not any more than that.

 

[nawsmith]

Just totally owned Brad Underwood today. That team is super fun to watch and I wouldn’t be surprised to see them back in the Final Four. In Hindsight, we were idiotic to get rid of him and pulled the trigger way too fast on something that would have blown over.

sorry but IMO IU should never hired that POS in the firs place. He may be a good coach but he lacks and still lacks, IMO , any sort or type of personal integrity. He was one of several coaches who trashed out the IU basketball program. Including our illustrous President from Australia.

Just totally owned Brad Underwood today. That team is super fun to watch and I wouldn’t be surprised to see them back in the Final Four. In Hindsight, we were idiotic to get rid of him and pulled the trigger way too fast on something that would have blown over.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Should HAVE. Also, Miller was considered by all the experts, including RMK, to be a great hire for IU. He didn’t work out, but no need to revise history.

That’s true. Not many people were disappointed with the hire at the time. It made perfect sense to expect far better results than we got.

But I bet that Coach Knight wouldn’t have continued to play a kid based on his expectations at the time he was recruited. Sometimes players, like coaches, don’t work out and the guy in charge absolutely must be willing to trim his sails when that happens. A kid plays based on his performance, not how the coach sees his potential.

 

[82hoosier]

As I said above, I wouldn’t have hired Woodson - despite thinking the world of him. I’d have gone after Pearl (with a leash).

Yeah, that has to do with being in Evansville and having seen his USI teams up close. I’ve advocated for him in the past, too. But the guy’s teams win and win big. They’re fun to watch and usually play hard. He can recruit like nobody’s business. As much success as he’s had at “football schools”, I’d love to see what he could do at a major “basketball school.”

But I always knew it wasn’t going to happen, for various reasons.

As for CMW, I was OK with the hire. He bleeds Cream & Crimson and has the NBA pedigree that means so much these days. Hiring him alongside Matta and Fife — like Michigan did with Howard and Martelli — was smart. They bring the college coaching pedigree that Woodson doesn’t have. And, if it goes well, then Fife can probably become coach-in-waiting for a smooth handoff like our pals up in WL did.

It’s something of an experiment. We’ll see. But remember that everybody was jazzed about hiring Archie. He was the hot name in coaching at that time. And how’d that work out for us?

You are correct. Even RMK said it was a great hire. If only he would have explained the nuances of the pack line defense before the decision to hire him.

 

[cshartle123]

It’s pretty easy to read between the lines with the Sampson situation. Someone or some people didn’t like him, so they found a way to fire him with cause. Then they hired Crean to “save” Indiana from its own sanctions. It’s one of the worst management stories I’ve ever seen.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

It’s pretty easy to read between the lines with the Sampson situation. Someone or some people didn’t like him, so they found a way to fire him with cause. Then they hired Crean to “save” Indiana from its own sanctions. It’s one of the worst management stories I’ve ever seen.

Sampson found a way to get himself fired. Those without integrity tend to do that.

 

[gator mcCluskey]

Should HAVE. Also, Miller was considered by all the experts, including RMK, to be a great hire for IU. He didn’t work out, but no need to revise history.

Now hold on here. RMK made some generic, supportive statements AFTER the hire and the start of the season, asking for fans to be patient. Certainly nothing approaching his full-throated endorsement of CMW. Most, if not all former players hated the hire. You’re being deceptive.

 

[Al Bino]

Now hold on here. RMK made some generic, supportive statements AFTER the hire and the start of the season, asking for fans to be patient. Certainly nothing approaching his full-throated endorsement of CMW. Most, if not all former players hated the hire. You’re being deceptive.

I would say that RMK made more than generic statements.

“He comes from a really good basketball background, and I know a little bit about that,” Knight said.

Knight said. “He’s no-nonsense, he’s tough, smart, and he wants to win."

The legendary coach suggested that the program will see success under Miller as long as fans support him.
“So you folks give him a good introduction, you get behind him, and I think you’re going to enjoy some good basketball.”

I understood that the former player were not happy because an "IU guy" was not hired not because they were against Miller.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Now hold on here. RMK made some generic, supportive statements AFTER the hire and the start of the season, asking for fans to be patient. Certainly nothing approaching his full-throated endorsement of CMW. Most, if not all former players hated the hire. You’re being deceptive.

You’re revising history if you’re saying that Archie wasn’t considered a great hire by the majority of the “experts.” That’s a fact. Why the need to dispute that fact?

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Sports fans at all levels are going to have to come to grips with the fact that marijuana has gained enough cultural acceptance as to no longer count as taboo.

Ask any High School coach. It’s as common as beer and sex. Maybe moreso.

Except it’s still illegal. This isn’t a morality issue. It doesn’t matter how you feel or I feel. Until it’s legal it has to be dealt with. Good grief. I’m fine with people toking it up but it’s not how it is. Yet.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

This is overstated. Some students thought IU should tell the ncaa to **** off and some of them chanted KS twice that I recall. I actually attend the games so happy to help here.
Oh and the students were not yet aware if the more serious infractions around academics when they were supporting him

Does this sound like just a few students? Get off the imaginary high horse.

 

[Al Bino]

Unvelievably, Fred Glass not only made it clear in word by saying that Year 3 wasn’t “make or break” but did so in deed by scheduling his retirement in May — effectively securing Archie a guaranteed 4th season no matter how poorly that season played out.

You have made this claim before and every time, you post no evidence to back up your assertions.
IMO, FG's retirement did not in any way shape or form secure another year for Archie. Why would you think that? Just because you believe that FG didn't want to fire his guy? Difficult to buy.

Many times, the new AD comes in and fires a coach that is underachieving so that he can bring in HIS guy.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Does this sound like just a few students? Get off the imaginary high horse.

View embedded media

lol nice try. Recorded in the middle of the students.

Nice try, but again...fail.

 

[cshartle123]

Sampson found a way to get himself fired. Those without integrity tend to do that.

Sampson’s first head coach job was in 1981, and he’s only been fired once.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Sampson’s first head coach job was in 1981, and he’s only been fired once.

That means absolutely nothing.

 

[cshartle123]

That means absolutely nothing.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you can’t claim ignorance now.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

You are entitled to your opinion, but you can’t claim ignorance now.

I never did,

 

[Victorbmyboy]

This whole thread is a rinse and repeat every stinking year. Give the Sampson thing a freaking rest! It’s unreal the revisionists in this group. Newsflash….Sampson was our coach for like ten minutes and he/we screwed it up. Bad hire(at the time). Good coach. However you slice it. Lock this dumb post up. Good grief!

 

[Fpeaugh2]

Lol. Has nothing to do with my “morals”. Do I have to simplify this further? I asked a very simple question. Half or more of the people saying, “we should’ve never fired Sampson”. Weren’t saying so at the time. I never said I wanted him or didn’t. So f-off as usual.

How wrong were you on the Big Ten today? I’ve never seen someone be wrong on every prediction. Defies all statistics.

 

[ReadHall84]

Correct. It should have been Beilein. But the Indiana Administration hired a racist President.

Clown comment from a Trump fan lol!

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Except it’s still illegal. This isn’t a morality issue. It doesn’t matter how you feel or I feel. Until it’s legal it has to be dealt with. Good grief. I’m fine with people toking it up but it’s not how it is. Yet.

That’s why I said that programs need to deal with it inside the confines of rules above their head. That would include laws.

But I suspect that those laws will have some impact on where some kids choose to play, too. Whatever the laws are in any particular jurisdiction, the point is that it’s reached its Tipping Point in terms of social acceptance.

I don’t much like that. But I surely recognize it.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

You have made this claim before and every time, you post no evidence to back up your assertions.
IMO, FG's retirement did not in any way shape or form secure another year for Archie. Why would you think that? Just because you believe that FG didn't want to fire his guy? Difficult to buy.

Many times, the new AD comes in and fires a coach that is underachieving so that he can bring in HIS guy.

The evidence is in (1) something he said (“not a make or break year”), and (2) something he did (scheduled his retirement for 2 months after the season). Both of these are facts, not opinions.

The latter was probably more impactful. Because an AD can always go back on his word. It was a stupid thing for Fred to say. But I guess he could always welch.

But the retirement — and its timing — made it practically impossible for Archie to be fired.

You want proof that I was right? Was Archie fired after that season, despite stinking up Assembly Hall for a 3rd straight year? No he wasn’t. Just as I said he wouldn’t be. Because Fred made it a practical impossibility. And so I have zero doubt that he said what he said and did what he did with precisely that in mind.

But he screwed the basketball program even worse by doing so.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

Either way FG would certainly be on any short list for worst AD in the history of college sports.

 

[twenty02]

The evidence is in (1) something he said (“not a make or break year”), and (2) something he did (scheduled his retirement for 2 months after the season). Both of these are facts, not opinions.

The latter was probably more impactful. Because an AD can always go back on his word. It was a stupid thing for Fred to say. But I guess he could always welch.

But the retirement — and its timing — made it practically impossible for Archie to be fired.

You want proof that I was right? Was Archie fired after that season, despite stinking up Assembly Hall for a 3rd straight year? No he wasn’t. Just as I said he wouldn’t be. Because Fred made it a practical impossibility. And so I have zero doubt that he said what he said and did what he did with precisely that in mind.

But he screwed the basketball program even worse by doing so.

Archie's 3rd year was going to end with a tourney bid before the covid cancellation. He wasn't getting fired after winning 20 games and making the tourney, regardless of Fred's retirement. That's just complete nonsense.

 

[Crayfish57]

Clown comment from a Trump fan lol!

Take that shit somewhere else .

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Archie's 3rd year was going to end with a tourney bid before the covid cancellation. He wasn't getting fired after winning 20 games and making the tourney, regardless of Fred's retirement. That's just complete nonsense.

We were 9-11 in the conference — good for 10th place — and, yet again, a lesser team later in the season than earlier in it. It was as clear as could be by then that he was a failed coach. A fourth year wasn’t going to (and didn’t) turn him into a successful one.

Not firing him, when it was abundantly clear that he was a bad hire, set us one year farther away from getting back to where we want to be.

And that’s on Fred. The following year he got was a pointless waste in all reasons other than financial.