You can call me a troll all you want. It means very little. Continue to accept mediocrity.
Man, Sampson can coach
- Thread starter Wiedersehen
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Pulling out the old “fine with the mediocrity” card confirms YOU are a bonehead. None of us are fine with that. Troll someone else.
Agreed if that had continued but I don't think it would have. He knew had one year only with 2 of the top 10 players in college basketball, DJ and EJ, and did everything he could to fill the roster with talent without regard to character issues. I believe it was a one year thing.
Then why do you continue to defend the mediocrity you say you are not fine with?
I agree. Some people said so at the time. But it was a very unpopular opinion. We have a fetish with being above all that. I think it’s a problem — but that is still a very unpopular opinion to this day.
I have no qualms about saying that we should’ve gone after Pearl, and just put him on a leash.
You believe despite the evidence otherwise. Not just about IU basketball.
Thank goodness we have never had any players smoke weed since he left.
What other evidence? Were Lance Stemler and Mike White bad guys? Who he brought in during year 1?You believe despite the evidence otherwise. Not just about IU basketball.
So you don’t have an answer? You defended Crean until the end. You defended Archie until the end. You will undoubtedly defend Woodson until the end. Defending mediocrity is what you do.
I don’t think anybody’s fine with mediocrity. But I do think some are either afraid or unwilling to address what I (and others) believe is a cultural hangup that is holding us back.
There are reason that coaches like Sampson, Self, Pearl, etal are more often than not successful. And their actual coaching is only part of that explanation.
But I realize I’ll never win this argument. It’s too deeply ingrained. We think the Knight era will come back if we just hire the right guy to do it. I’m skeptical of that. The game has changed.
All the guys like DeAndre thomas were going to be gone. He had guys like elston coming in I think it would have changed. The old you got to give a guy four years sure did not apply is this case. IU were cowards and still are. Why they will not touch proven winners like pearl or drew.
The joe hillman and ted kitchell cult 100% believes simply hiring an IU grad is all that is needed to return the glory days. Hillman really believes that I have listed to him on podcasts
There were a lot of people here and on other forums who defended Archie wayyy past the time he should’ve been defended. I mean, I thought his seat should’ve gotten hot after Year 2 and should’ve been canned after Year 3.
Unvelievably, Fred Glass not only made it clear in word by saying that Year 3 wasn’t “make or break” but did so in deed by scheduling his retirement in May — effectively securing Archie a guaranteed 4th season no matter how poorly that season played out.
Glass did some good things at IU. But that was unforgivable.
Wrong and wrong. I thought Crean underperformed every year except one and said so. I hated his style of play and said that. I’m not a whiner so I didn’t say it like the Negative Nancies do, but I definitely said it. I was good with Miller until about the middle of his fourth season because his third year was definitely better than his first two. I was good with replacing him with the meltdown at the end of the season so I didn’t defend him then. Didn’t whine like an immature child though because I don’t do whining.
Also how the heck would you know? You weren’t here for Crean or most of Miller unless you had another handle. Who were you? Don’t be a coward and let us know.
I was in that group. I defended Archie blindly for 3.5 years even though the evidence pointed to him being in over his head (no pun intended).
Sports fans at all levels are going to have to come to grips with the fact that marijuana has gained enough cultural acceptance as to no longer count as taboo.
Ask any High School coach. It’s as common as beer and sex. Maybe moreso.
Idk how many times I have to tell you (this is at least the 3rd time). My Handle was @NC_Trojan10 . So call me a coward all you want, but you are the dumbass that can’t seem to get it through his head.
You were here blindly defending Crean and Archie as you are doing now.
You say you don’t do whining, yet here you are whining about other’s whining.
But if you stated the obvious that we were (at best) stagnant, his defenders would point, with a straight face, to KenPom data showing that we were actually improving and headed to success. Just needed more time, etc.
His teams never improved. If anything, they regressed over the course of individual seasons. And the arc across multiple seasons was basically flat. Then he’d have a good win here and there and it would renew that false hope.
Ugh. I don’t want to relive it.
BTW, I should say that I’m very much still on the Woodson bus. He’s not who I’d have hired. But he is who was hired. And he deserves an ample chance to get things going. I think he did a fairly good job this year. And hopefully he’ll get the weapons we need to address our obvious weaknesses.
Here is one for the "Water Cooler" Section.
Effect of Medical Marijuana Card Ownership on Pain, Insomnia, and Affective Disorder Symptoms
This randomized clinical trial examines the risks and benefits of a medical marijuana card, including the development of cannabis use disorder and improvement of insomnia symptoms.
jamanetwork.com
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His 3rd year sucked too. He was beyond defense by that point.
You know I like and respect you, Aloha. A lot. But you should be able admit that you were wrong to defend him beyond that. It should have been a surprise to nobody that things didn’t improve in his last year. They were never going to.
HS coaches and recruits’ parents disliked him. So did many people who matter on campus. His teams didn’t play hard. They made the same mistakes over and over again. It’s not like that was going to magically change in a 4th year of hell.
We should not be afraid to cut bait when it’s obvious it needs to be cut.
Sorry. Thought that was another guy. I was wrong and I admit it.
You’re wrong about me blindly defending Crean as I never did. I soured on him early and he gave us all some hope for a couple years and then he deserved firing. I posted that he should be replaced. I was happy about it when it happened.
I definitely defended Miller for about three and a half years, but I’d dispute “blindly” because my defense was always fact based. I stopped defending him toward the end of last year because he clearly wasn’t the answer at that point, but didn’t call for firing him because I didn’t think IU would do it because of the buy out. A rich dude took care of that problem which is good.
I don’t whine. Ever. I say what I mean.
I’m not touting marijuana use. I think people are stupid to smoke that stuff. I’ve personally known a number of people who (IMO) diminished their capability to reach their potential by getting caught up in that crap. Apathetic, obsessed, etc. I employ a fair number of people and I won’t hire people who smoke pot. They tend to be very low performing people.Here is one for the "Water Cooler" Section.
Effect of Medical Marijuana Card Ownership on Pain, Insomnia, and Affective Disorder Symptoms
This randomized clinical trial examines the risks and benefits of a medical marijuana card, including the development of cannabis use disorder and improvement of insomnia symptoms.
I’m simply talking about the social acceptance. It’s here, it’s not going back. Get used to it.
If I’m currently whining, then you are too.Sorry. Thought that was another guy. I was wrong and I admit it.
You’re wrong about me blindly defending Crean as I never did. I soured on him early and he gave us all some hope for a couple years and then he deserved firing. I posted that he should be replaced. I was happy about it when it happened.
I definitely defended Miller for about three and a half years, but I’d dispute “blindly” because my defense was always fact based. I stopped defending him toward the end of last year because he clearly wasn’t the answer at that point, but didn’t call for firing him because I didn’t think IU would do it because of the buy out. A rich dude took care of that problem which is good.
I don’t whine. Ever. I say what I mean.
If what you say is true, and you stop posting when you sour on a coach, then I suspect we will be seeing you post less and less over the course of the next year or so.
Sorry. Thought that was another guy. I was wrong and I admit it.
You’re wrong about me blindly defending Crean as I never did. I soured on him early and he gave us all some hope for a couple years and then he deserved firing. I posted that he should be replaced. I was happy about it when it happened.
I definitely defended Miller for about three and a half years, but I’d dispute “blindly” because my defense was always fact based. I stopped defending him toward the end of last year because he clearly wasn’t the answer at that point, but didn’t call for firing him because I didn’t think IU would do it because of the buy out. A rich dude took care of that problem which is good.
I don’t whine. Ever. I say what I mean.
Questioning a firing for financial reasons is very different than defending a coach on their merits.
My recollection is also that you defended Archie on the merits - way more than I could believe, anyway.
You were hardly alone in that. It just surprised me.
CH2- Totally Understand what you are saying. Sorry.... didn't mean for my post to be a jab at what you said.
Just posted what I found out there about the topic. I had seen the article posted earlier today somewhere else.
I agree that it may not go away..... but I wish it would. That's just my opinion.
Sorry. Thought that was another guy. I was wrong and I admit it.
You’re wrong about me blindly defending Crean as I never did. I soured on him early and he gave us all some hope for a couple years and then he deserved firing. I posted that he should be replaced. I was happy about it when it happened.
I definitely defended Miller for about three and a half years, but I’d dispute “blindly” because my defense was always fact based. I stopped defending him toward the end of last year because he clearly wasn’t the answer at that point, but didn’t call for firing him because I didn’t think IU would do it because of the buy out. A rich dude took care of that problem which is good.
I don’t whine. Ever. I say what I mean.
Also, while I think Crean deserved to be fired sooner, IU was in a bit of a damned if you do damned if don’t situation.
The best options to fire him sooner would have been in year 3 and year 6, but the athletic department would have looked toxic from the outside, and IU very likely would have ended up with a replacement worse than Archie.
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We agree on much, but not this. I had a lot of hope after the third year. They were solidly in the tournament if it wasn’t canceled and I watched his teams at UD because I live here. I expected the fourth year to be the big progress year and it wasn’t. I knew nothing about dislike from parents and coaches and he was getting solid recruits, on paper, so why would I suspect anything like that?
It did finally go south for me in the fourth year because they finally weren’t improving and we’re regressing. Something was wrong. I expected we’d have one more year of Archie and I don’t whine, but I was relieved when they fired him and hired Woodson. Matta was my first choice, but I’m happy with Woodson so far.
Yeah and Smith did the same with AR last year, IIRC. But on a personal level, they were about the same player. And both left with an IU degree, IIRC.
Got to remember I watched his UD teams play a lot. He had those teams play like I wanted IU to play - with more talent.
I get it. I’ve seen some of the various studies showing this or that.
But my opinions are primarily derived from my own experiences and observations. As anybody’s should be, really. It’s not a good thing to do. It seems to encourage lethargy and apathy. Maybe not in everybody. But certainly enough to be evident.
We raised our kids as best we could to stay away from it. And so far so good. But I suspect its use is more common today than it’s ever been. It’s obviously growing in legality. And it will probably be legal to some extent everywhere within the next decade or so.
I just think sports teams, to the degree they’re able (within the confines of rules/regs above their heads) are going to have to concede to it. If they don’t, they’ll struggle getting and keeping players.
I hate to say that. But I’m just recognizing reality.
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There's a lot of re-writing history here.
IU self-reported the violations. Sampson then lied to the NCAA about it. He was already on probation. And the end result was that he was banned from coaching in college for 5 years, by the NCAA.
Not sure how one comes up with the idea that it would have just "blown over". IU either had to cover up the violations and not report them or they had to fire Sampson. There was no middle ground.
IU self-reported the violations. Sampson then lied to the NCAA about it. He was already on probation. And the end result was that he was banned from coaching in college for 5 years, by the NCAA.
Not sure how one comes up with the idea that it would have just "blown over". IU either had to cover up the violations and not report them or they had to fire Sampson. There was no middle ground.
I’m just saying that what you saw in the 4th year to finally pull the plug was already well within evidence in the previous years. The problems weren’t going away, they were setting in. There was no good reason to think they would improve — other than hope. And hope can be a really tricky temptress.
What he did at Dayton was irrelevant. John Groce was successful at OU, too. It happens. And the quicker ADs recognize mistakes and correct them, the better. I know there’s a school of thought that coaches need 4 years. It’s a bad school of thought. That’s too much - unless there’s compelling evidence that things are headed in the right direction.
There was never a single day in Archie’s tenure where a reasonable person would conclude they were headed in the right direction.
That’s true.
I am curious about what the rules say about self-reporting - in general and for a program on probation. It certainly seems possible, if not likely, that the punishment would’ve been worse had IU not self-reported the infraction.
But it also seems that we weren’t rewarded much for it, either.
Sorry. Thought that was another guy. I was wrong and I admit it.
You’re wrong about me blindly defending Crean as I never did. I soured on him early and he gave us all some hope for a couple years and then he deserved firing. I posted that he should be replaced. I was happy about it when it happened.
I definitely defended Miller for about three and a half years, but I’d dispute “blindly” because my defense was always fact based. I stopped defending him toward the end of last year because he clearly wasn’t the answer at that point, but didn’t call for firing him because I didn’t think IU would do it because of the buy out. A rich dude took care of that problem which is good.
I don’t whine. Ever. I say what I mean.
also, I think that part of the problem with firing Crean was that when IU was replacing Davis, there was a lot of interest in the job by a lot of quality candidates. 2 years later, that interest basically disappeared with Crean being one of the few people willing to listen to IU, which the administration was highly concerned would be the case if it was perceived that IU fired Crean too soon. Even when IU did fire Crean, interest in the job was limited.
And some wanted to give him a fifth year. The four year unwritten rule is ridiculous.
One thing I think happens with sports fans and programs is that level-headed fans lump any and all calls for firing coaches in together. And, as we all know, there are calls to fire coaches after pretty much any loss…especially a really disappointing loss.
As they pride themselves on being level-headed fans, they seem quicker to dismiss all such talk at pretty much any point…just so they don’t feel like they’ve become “one of those people.” And these are the people left standing closest to the bitter end.
Personally, I don’t think it makes much sense to err on either side of that question. We all know fans can have absurdly quick trigger-fingers. But others can have absurdly slow ones.
As they pride themselves on being level-headed fans, they seem quicker to dismiss all such talk at pretty much any point…just so they don’t feel like they’ve become “one of those people.” And these are the people left standing closest to the bitter end.
Personally, I don’t think it makes much sense to err on either side of that question. We all know fans can have absurdly quick trigger-fingers. But others can have absurdly slow ones.
