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Louisville's YUM Arena may become $1 billion debt for KY taxpayers

76-1 said:
Was with you till that last paragraph... No need to get nasty you young whipper snapper... Telling anyone on here to go live in Kentuck (that's what we old timers call it;)) is way out of bounds! :rolleyes:

The tax dollars of all of us "over" 55 folk built much of the infrastructure, schools, and amenities that your generation are currently utilizing... Wanting to get a break after decades of getting soaked seems reasonable to me.

If you young guys are so keen on paying for stuff why don't we get the legislature to put a hard cap on paying taxes "after 55" and we'll let you young fellows double down on your philanthropy and civic duty? ;) ?!?:D
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Sorry..... :(
 
I don’t know of any businesses or people who moved to Indy because of the friggin’ Colts.
 
Quix0te said:
The stupid boy doesn't know what he's talking about. There have been ZERO big time bowl games in the RCA or the LOS.
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Goon to stupid boy, is that a promotion?

How about Super Bowls? Does that bowl count?

You can keep saying the major bowl thing till 2021, so have fun!!

And the SMALLEST NFL STADIUM for 22 years was perfect. Why would anyone think to tear it down?

Hey, your extra $4.21 in taxes helped a ton. Thanks
 
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IUgradman said:
I don’t know of any businesses or people who moved to Indy because of the friggin’ Colts.
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I can’t think what downtown Indy would look like without the Colts/Lucas Oil.

Nah, not a single hotel or restaurant wants the Colts in town......nah.

SalesForce alone (much like B10 Football), has already made Lucas Oil worth it
 
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IndianaHoops said:
I can’t think what downtown Indy would look like without the Colts/Lucas Oil.

Nah, not a single hotel or restaurant wants the Colts in town......nah.

SalesForce alone (much like B10 Football), has already made Lucas Oil worth it
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That assumes the Salesforce presence has anything to do with Lucas Oil and not their acquisition of Indianapolis based ExactTarget.
 
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IDontWannaLargeFarva said:
That assumes the Salesforce presence has anything to do with Lucas Oil, and not their acquisition of Indianapolis based ExactTarget.
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And keeping RCA assumes having the smallest NFL stadium in the country would draw anything.

Nah, it’s all just a big coincidence
 
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IUgradman said:
There have been several studies done that show stadiums don’t pay for themselves. Lucas Oil Stadium cost over $700 million, with most of the funding from the taxpayer. Imagine the economic impact if citizens had been able to keep their money instead of lining Irsay’s pockets.
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Lol Irsay and the Colts would be in LA. Don't be so butt hurt. You must be a fan of another team or hate the nfl. Read my previous response to explain the financials.
 
IUgradman said:
I don’t know of any businesses or people who moved to Indy because of the friggin’ Colts.
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Right, do you know anyone in ANY city that's moved there for a professional football team!?? Horrible analogy.

The impact of a team is that it provides national attention. For the marketing majors, it's called "branding".
 
Quix0te said:
Did you read what I said? One more time, read it slowly and allow it to sink in this time.

Show me where Irsay threatened to move the Colts out. Show me one single link in which Colts owner Jim I*R*S*A*Y threatened to move the Colts out of Indy if he didn't have a new stadium. Do you understand this time?
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No he never came out publically but it was well know what his plans were and the mayor even said so in that article.
 
IndianaHoops said:
And keeping RCA assumes having the smallest NFL stadium in the country would draw anything.

Nah, it’s all just a big coincidence
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Not sure I understand your response re: Salesforce. They definitely didn't come to Indy for any other reason than ExactTarget and building out their Marketing Cloud business unit.

I'm not anti-LOS, I'm a Texas resident so I don't really care.
 
Back to the OP and Yum Arena, LOS makes a good comparison. At roughly a billion dollars each, LOS does have the Colts and a bunch of other events. YUM does not have an NBA team. They do have the Louisville Cards, but they already had 'em before YUM was built so the net gain to the city is zero. Freedom Hall is still standing and is frequently used.

YUM Arena is a fiscal nightmare for taxpayers in KY.
 
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Quix0te said:
The stupid boy doesn't know what he's talking about. There have been ZERO big time bowl games in the RCA or the LOS.
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Correct. However, there is also a yearly event called the Circle City Classic, that features a football game between two small out of state schools used as a fundraising event.
 
Upset Alert said:
Correct. However, there is also a yearly event called the Circle City Classic, that features a football game between two small out of state schools used as a fundraising event.
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Right. The CC Classic was started in the RCA Dome in 1984.
 
IndianaHoops said:
I can’t think what downtown Indy would look like without the Colts/Lucas Oil.

Nah, not a single hotel or restaurant wants the Colts in town......nah.

SalesForce alone (much like B10 Football), has already made Lucas Oil worth it
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What events does SF.com have in LOS? You aren't saying that they moved an office here due to the Colts playing in LOS vs the Hoosier Dome...are you?
 
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Quix0te said:
A study has been done to determine if new sports complexes for pro teams attracts new businesses to a city and in a word, no, they don't.

http://busecon.wvu.edu/phd_economics/pdf/15-32.pdf
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The Colts were playing in the smallest NFL stadium in the league (RCA). In 2007, its capacity was 55,000. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_Dome). For reference, Memorial Stadium can handle 52,000. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Stadium_(Indiana))

If the RCA was for a COLLEGE team, it would need updating to compete (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_football_stadiums_by_capacity). It would be next to last in the Big 10.

Lucas Oil has been very successful for Indianapolis. You haven't produced ONE bit of anything to prove other wise for the city of Indianapolis except you don't like thinking your taxes might have paid for it (it didn't).
 
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Quix0te said:
Back to the OP and Yum Arena, LOS makes a good comparison. At roughly a billion dollars each, LOS does have the Colts and a bunch of other events. YUM does not have an NBA team. They do have the Louisville Cards, but they already had 'em before YUM was built so the net gain to the city is zero. Freedom Hall is still standing and is frequently used.

YUM Arena is a fiscal nightmare for taxpayers in KY.
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Freedom Hall is a dump. It actually stinks in there. It is isolated on the fairgrounds and thus never contributed to any nearby development.

The YUM Center has kicked off a major development boom in downtown Louisville. Downtown and associated nearby neighborhoods have been revitalized. Numerous new hotels have been built, including the Omni, and continue to be built. The convention center has been totally rebuilt. People are moving into the downtown area. Events at the YUM bring large crowds downtown, instead of the nowhere of Freedom Hall.

While the financing of the YUM may have not been well thought out, it has certainly brought more than it's cost into downtown development. And being I live in New Albany, I don't have to worry about paying for it...but I have certainly enjoyed the revitalization of downtown Louisville and enjoyed going to events there.

I think it is clear that in today's world a large city without a downtown arena will suffer from being a ghost town after 5pm.

On a side note, an NBA team would not be successful in Louisville. This is the number one TV market for college basketball for a reason: three very rabid college basketball fanbases stuffed into one metro area.
 
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IU Scott said:
When companies are looking to move or expand to other cities, they do look at whether they have professional sports teams.
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Yes, but the comment was about LOS. Are you suggesting that if the Colts still played at the Hoosier Dome SF.com would not have opened their office here?
 
Raoul Duke MU said:
Freedom Hall is a dump. It actually stinks in there. It is isolated on the fairgrounds and thus never contributed to any nearby development.

The YUM Center has kicked off a major development boom in downtown Louisville. Downtown and associated nearby neighborhoods have been revitalized. Numerous new hotels have been built, including the Omni, and continue to be built. The convention center has been totally rebuilt. People are moving into the downtown area. Events at the YUM bring large crowds downtown, instead of the nowhere of Freedom Hall.

While the financing of the YUM may have not been well thought out, it has certainly brought more than it's cost into downtown development. And being I live in New Albany, I don't have to worry about paying for it...but I have certainly enjoyed the revitalization of downtown Louisville and enjoyed going to events there.

I think it is clear that in today's world a large city without a downtown arena will suffer from being a ghost town after 5pm.

On a side note, an NBA team would not be successful in Louisville. This is the number one TV market for college basketball for a reason: three very rabid college basketball fanbases stuffed into one metro area.
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Yes, the YUM Center did revitalize the downtown. Now do you remember what the OP said? Here it is:

"In large part, that's because taxpayers still have decades and hundreds of millions of dollars to go to pay it off. The arena's total cost, including debt repayment, is estimated around $1 billion. And unless the debt is paid off early, the taxpayer subsidies will keep coming until Yum Center is 37 years old.

"There is more public subsidy of the arena than was intended at the beginning or that anyone believed would happen," said Pam Thomas, senior fellow at the Kentucky Center for Economic Policy.

"She called the arena a "cautionary tale" about the need to vet costs and benefits of big economic development projects."

And the sales pitch for the arena wasn't for college basketball. It was intended to draw an NBA team. That was the hype that was shoved down the throats of taxpayers.
 
Comparing RCA/LOS to YUM is kinda apples to oranges. The RCA/LOS did indeed acquire and retain the Colts, no doubt about it. Cost of both combined was ballpark $1 billion and yeah, the Colts are really a statewide attraction. So that's $1B divided by 6.7 Hoosiers is $150 per taxpayer.

YUM is $1B divided by 4.4 million Kaintucks = $225 per taxpayer but wait a minute. Most Hoosiers are Colts fans and many live near Indy. Louisville did NOT acquire an NBA team, most of the taxpayers in KY are NOT U of L fans and few Kaintucks live near Louisville. Fact is that 80-90% of Kaintucks are UK fans and they have nothing but loathing for U of L.

As I said before, YUM acquired nothing. The city of Louisville already had the most filthy P5 school in America, U of L, plus the concerts whatever at Churchill Downs and Freedom Hall. And for the other 90% of the state, a downtown arena in Louisville without an NBA team is useless. But that 90% will be paying for that YUM Arena for the next 37 years you bet your sweet ass.
 
Quix0te said:
Yes, the YUM Center did revitalize the downtown. Now do you remember what the OP said? Here it is:

"In large part, that's because taxpayers still have decades and hundreds of millions of dollars to go to pay it off. The arena's total cost, including debt repayment, is estimated around $1 billion. And unless the debt is paid off early, the taxpayer subsidies will keep coming until Yum Center is 37 years old.

"There is more public subsidy of the arena than was intended at the beginning or that anyone believed would happen," said Pam Thomas, senior fellow at the Kentucky Center for Economic Policy.

"She called the arena a "cautionary tale" about the need to vet costs and benefits of big economic development projects."

And the sales pitch for the arena wasn't for college basketball. It was intended to draw an NBA team. That was the hype that was shoved down the throats of taxpayers.
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Actually the thread OP said he was glad that turkey was south of the river, to which I replied I'm in the same boat. And then he posted an article link with opinions on both sides of the issue...you quoted a think-tank person, so yeah it's opinions.

The Courier Journal has a hard-on for all things UofL right now. A lot of that has to do with Bevin replacing the board, and a lot of it has to do with the editoral staff being liberals that hate to see money spent on college athletics.

As for opinions, the only one of yours I disagree with is thinking Freedom Hall still being standing has anything to do with the argument for or against the YUM. I don't think it does, because it IS a dump. It's only still standing because it is used for state fair crap, agricultural events, and monster trucks. You think Paul McCartney would have been booked into that dump?

I could not care less if Indy has the Colts or not, my NFL fandom was clinched before they came to the state. You folks up there can argue about LOS. It doesn't affect me one bit, but I will say downtown Indy is a hell of a lot nicer now than when I was younger....same as downtown Louisville....and there seems to be a common thread between why for both cities.

I would love for IU to have an arena as nice as the the YUM, but I have no idea where the money could come from that would make sense.
 
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cd_hoosiers said:
The public was very much against the Yum...just as they were the new downtown bridge. But the university and KY politicians got what they wanted, and now the taxpayers and commuters are paying the bill. Louisville is the poster child for irresponsibility and Louisville mayor Jerry Abramson was the class clown leader. Waiting for the financial report on the new bridges (tolling) so we can see how far they (conveniently) missed the mark on that project.
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Nobody likes tolling but it sure beats swimming across the river.
 
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