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Louisville's YUM Arena may become $1 billion debt for KY taxpayers

Are they going to have a bronze statue of Rick Pitino having an affair with a waitress on a restaurant bench? And a picture of prostitutes walking out with players and recruits, with a suitcase full of $150,000 to illegally buy a recruit?
 
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The best is their National Championship banner hanging on a building directly across the street from the YUM Center

It really is....
 
Couldn't essentially the same article be written about every stadium build in Indy in the last 70 years? Lucas Oil won't be paid off til after is gets shut down or updated, either...
 
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Are they going to have a bronze statue of Rick Pitino having an affair with a waitress on a restaurant bench? And a picture of prostitutes waliking out with players and recruits, with a suitcase full of $150,000 to illegally buy a recruit?

lol?
 
Couldn't essentially the same article be written about every stadium build in Indy in the last 70 years? Lucas Oil won't be paid off til after is gets shut down or updated, either...
True, and LOS cost about a billion but it's an indoor football stadium. These guys spent $1 billion on a basketball arena. As a comparison, Assembly Hall cost $26.6 million when built and that's $161 million in 2017 dollars.
 
True, and LOS cost about a billion but it's an indoor football stadium. These guys spent $1 billion on a basketball arena. As a comparison, Assembly Hall cost $26.6 million when built and that's $161 million in 2017 dollars.

Well, apparently, they didn’t realize they were going to end up spending a billion on KFC Yum! The construction costs themselves were less than $300M.

Having been personally involved with similar projects (though not that one) I’m not the least bit surprised. The driving mentality behind these projects is more about the bright, shiny new thing and the supposed civic benefits than a sober, realistic evaluation of true cost, payback, etc.

We’ll end up seeing lots more of these kinds of white elephants in coming years.
 
Well, apparently, they didn’t realize they were going to end up spending a billion on KFC Yum! The construction costs themselves were less than $300M.

Having been personally involved with similar projects (though not that one) I’m not the least bit surprised. The driving mentality behind these projects is more about the bright, shiny new thing and the supposed civic benefits than a sober, realistic evaluation of true cost, payback, etc.

We’ll end up seeing lots more of these kinds of white elephants in coming years.

Reading the article, it seems like much of the issue with YUM was choice of location (over 100M more than another downtown location), and a decision to have a large entry plaza rather develop a hotel on that spot, which that would have produced additional revenue.

While you can debate the efficiency of the money spent on Lucas Oil, I think the decisions surrounding location and development of the area were well thought out. The site was predominantly parking lots, and demolition of RCA allow for expansion of the convention center, which will probably have better economic impact than the new stadium itself.
 
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The public was very much against the Yum...just as they were the new downtown bridge. But the university and KY politicians got what they wanted, and now the taxpayers and commuters are paying the bill. Louisville is the poster child for irresponsibility and Louisville mayor Jerry Abramson was the class clown leader. Waiting for the financial report on the new bridges (tolling) so we can see how far they (conveniently) missed the mark on that project.
 
Pitino ruined Louisville basketball. And then denies he did anything wrong. Lol.
 
Reading the article, it seems like much of the issue with YUM was choice of location (over 100M more than another downtown location), and a decision to have a large entry plaza rather develop a hotel on that spot, which that would have produced additional revenue.

While you can debate the efficiency of the money spent on Lucas Oil, I think the decisions surrounding location and development of the area were well thought out. The site was predominantly parking lots, and demolition of RCA allow for expansion of the convention center, which will probably have better economic impact than the new stadium itself.
That is BS. There was zero justification to demolish 22-yr-old RCA. The convention center could have been built to the south, southeast or southwest without tearing down the stadium. What Fred Glass did was cowardly groveling to the Irsay goon.

640px-RCA_Dome_satellite_view.png
 
That is BS. There was zero justification to demolish 22-yr-old RCA. The convention center could have been built to the south, southeast or southwest without tearing down the stadium. What Fred Glass did was cowardly groveling to the Irsay goon.

640px-RCA_Dome_satellite_view.png

LOL

Yeah.....there was nothing wrong with RCA or the general area.

Did you go to a Colts game in the 80s......neither did anyone else
 
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That is BS. There was zero justification to demolish 22-yr-old RCA. The convention center could have been built to the south, southeast or southwest without tearing down the stadium. What Fred Glass did was cowardly groveling to the Irsay goon.

640px-RCA_Dome_satellite_view.png

My point was that once the decision to build was made, generally it was planned well. And it was the planning issues that got YUM so underwater.

I’m no fan of Irsay either, but unfortunately nfl owners have all the leverage. Plus, if Indy ever loses the Colts, the Pacers will be the ONLY major league sports team to play in the town going forward.
 
LOL

Yeah.....there was nothing wrong with RCA or the general area.

Did you go to a Colts game in the 80s......neither did anyone else

I agree.

Lucas Oil Stadium isn’t the downtown Indy stadium that shouldn’t have been built...the RCA Dome is. Of course, the major push behind the original stadium was to lure an NFL team. And, on that score anyway, it worked.

But it was an awful facility — as evidenced by the fact that it only existed for a little over 20 years...before a far superior facility had to be built in order to keep the team there.

With the building of LOS, Indy went from having one of the worst stadiums in the NFL to having one of the best. To the degree it’s been a financial lead weight, I’d put most of the blame on its hastily built and poorly conceived predecessor.
 
I agree.

Lucas Oil Stadium isn’t the downtown Indy stadium that shouldn’t have been built...the RCA Dome is. Of course, the major push behind the original stadium was to lure an NFL team. And, on that score anyway, it worked.

But it was an awful facility — as evidenced by the fact that it only existed for a little over 20 years...before a far superior facility had to be built in order to keep the team there.

With the building of LOS, Indy went from having one of the worst stadiums in the NFL to having one of the best. To the degree it’s been a financial lead weight, I’d put most of the blame on its hastily built and poorly conceived predecessor.
The public lie that was used to justify the demolition of RCA was that Indy was frantic to expand it's convention center and the O*N*L*Y way to do that was to tear down the stadium. It was complete bullshit.
 
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The public lie that was used to justify the demolition of RCA was that Indy was frantic to expand it's convention center and the O*N*L*Y way to do that was to tear down the stadium. It was complete bullshit.

What???? I don't remember that at all.

First, Market Square arena was closed almost a decade before RCA dome. It was a long term plan to do something with downtown Indy, which in the 80s and 90s was the poster child of city decay.

In between MSA and RCA, the canal was redone, NCAA moved in, super bowl, and the circle center mall. It totally changed Indy and was a complete success.

"Convention Center"????? lol Sure.....that might have been one of about 1,000 reasons to tear down RCA.

And do you have any idea how much money that convention center brings into Indy? How many events Indy hosts in the Midwest?

Do you even live in Indy?
 
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That is BS. There was zero justification to demolish 22-yr-old RCA. The convention center could have been built to the south, southeast or southwest without tearing down the stadium. What Fred Glass did was cowardly groveling to the Irsay goon.

640px-RCA_Dome_satellite_view.png
You do realize that building Lucas Oil enabled Indianapolis to get the Super Bowl which brought in a lot of revue to the city.
 
You do realize that building Lucas Oil enabled Indianapolis to get the Super Bowl which brought in a lot of revue to the city.

There's always going to be debate whether the direct economic impact of a stadium/sports team is going to offset the state/municipal subsidies that go into building the new stadiums. However, in general, Indy probably benefits more than most from an image stand point by having pro sports teams. Without them, Indianapolis is probably a rung below places like Columbus OH, Louisville, and Memphis, and probably more on par with the likes of Raleigh NC, Richmond VA, and Hartford CT. The image factor is a bit intangible, but is probably worth the BS associated with sports teams, especially football.
 
I agree.

Lucas Oil Stadium isn’t the downtown Indy stadium that shouldn’t have been built...the RCA Dome is. Of course, the major push behind the original stadium was to lure an NFL team. And, on that score anyway, it worked.

But it was an awful facility — as evidenced by the fact that it only existed for a little over 20 years...before a far superior facility had to be built in order to keep the team there.

With the building of LOS, Indy went from having one of the worst stadiums in the NFL to having one of the best. To the degree it’s been a financial lead weight, I’d put most of the blame on its hastily built and poorly conceived predecessor.

And generally, the max usage of stadiums built in the 60s through the 80s was about 30 years ( e.g. Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, New England, Seattle), so 20-some years isn't that off the mark. Had Indy kept the RCA dome, it would have been vastly behind all current or planned stadiums with the exception of Buffalo's stadium. And besides Buffalo, the only pre-1995 stadiums that are planned to be used into the future are Lambeau, Arrowhead, Soldier Field, and the Superdome, all of which are pretty iconic facilities.
 
You do realize that building Lucas Oil enabled Indianapolis to get the Super Bowl which brought in a lot of revue to the city.

That's certainly true. And any major event -- and they don't get much bigger than the SB -- obviously helps to cost justify the public investment in venues like The Luke.

They aren't magic bullets, though. Just ask any number of cities that have hosted Olympics -- most notably, and recently, Rio. In spite of the revenues it brought in and the major construction it spawned, the Olympics weren't a blessing for Rio or Brazil, they were a curse.
 
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And generally, the max usage of stadiums built in the 60s through the 80s was about 30 years ( e.g. Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, New England, Seattle), so 20-some years isn't that off the mark.

True. But (a) the RCA Dome still died at a younger age than all of those, and (b) even 30 years is a pretty bad benchmark for the lifespan of a major sports venue to begin with.

The Dome served its primary purpose -- to attract an NFL team to Indy. And I don't have any idea what its books looked like c. 2008. But, from the day it opened, it was never a very nice facility. You always had the impression that it was put up as quickly and cheaply as possible in order to entice a team to town.
 
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True. But (a) the RCA Dome still died at a younger age than all of those, and (b) even 30 years is a pretty bad benchmark for the lifespan of a major sports venue to begin with.

The Dome served its primary purpose -- to attract an NFL team to Indy. And I don't have any idea what its books looked like c. 2008. But, from the day it opened, it was never a very nice facility. You always had the impression that it was put up as quickly and cheaply as possible in order to entice a team to town.

I agree that 30 years is a pretty short lifespan. I was just pointing out that stadiums were generally poorly conceived of during that era - quick and cheap were about the only considerations before the 90s. I've heard it mention before that Camden Yards (1992) ushered in a new mindset in stadium construction where cost efficiency wasn't the primary factor in its design
 
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I thought Freedom Hall was dirty and due for replacement. They hadn't bothered to change the ceiling tiles from the smoking days and many were black the last time I was in there. It looked old and Louisville is big enough for something better. I'm sure many say it as a waste of money.

I wasn't excited when Evansville tore down Roberts Stadium and built the new Ford Center downtown. Roberts had a lot of infrastructure issues and would have cost a lot to repair and maintain.

I have two complaints. They had to shoehorn it into a confined space and made design changes to make it fit. You can tell. The problem with space was made worse because it was designed to be a better hockey facility than basketball. The baseline permanent .seats are about a mile from the floor. It looks great hor hockey and awkward for basketball,

What do people in Louisville think about the location and overall design of the Yum facility?
 
I agree that 30 years is a pretty short lifespan. I was just pointing out that stadiums were generally poorly conceived of during that era - quick and cheap were about the only considerations before the 90s. I've heard it mention before that Camden Yards (1992) ushered in a new mindset in stadium construction where cost efficiency wasn't the primary factor in its design

SS AH in its 47th year, will celebrate its 50th in 2021. Also Indy just won bid to host 2016 FF (already has it for 2021). Seems that can't hurt recruiting...
 
There's always going to be debate whether the direct economic impact of a stadium/sports team is going to offset the state/municipal subsidies that go into building the new stadiums. However, in general, Indy probably benefits more than most from an image stand point by having pro sports teams. Without them, Indianapolis is probably a rung below places like Columbus OH, Louisville, and Memphis, and probably more on par with the likes of Raleigh NC, Richmond VA, and Hartford CT. The image factor is a bit intangible, but is probably worth the BS associated with sports teams, especially football.
Just look at Downtown Indy before 84 and after and that is all you need to see. Downtown was ghost town and there was really no reason to go downtown unless to go to a Pacers game.
 
True. But (a) the RCA Dome still died at a younger age than all of those, and (b) even 30 years is a pretty bad benchmark for the lifespan of a major sports venue to begin with.

The Dome served its primary purpose -- to attract an NFL team to Indy. And I don't have any idea what its books looked like c. 2008. But, from the day it opened, it was never a very nice facility. You always had the impression that it was put up as quickly and cheaply as possible in order to entice a team to town.
I really never minded the RCA Dome as a venue because most seats were very good especially for football. I probably saw at least 25 Colts game and well over 40 college basketball games in the Dome.
 
I thought Freedom Hall was dirty and due for replacement. They hadn't bothered to change the ceiling tiles from the smoking days and many were black the last time I was in there. It looked old and Louisville is big enough for something better. I'm sure many say it as a waste of money.

I wasn't excited when Evansville tore down Roberts Stadium and built the new Ford Center downtown. Roberts had a lot of infrastructure issues and would have cost a lot to repair and maintain.

I have two complaints. They had to shoehorn it into a confined space and made design changes to make it fit. You can tell. The problem with space was made worse because it was designed to be a better hockey facility than basketball. The baseline permanent .seats are about a mile from the floor. It looks great hor hockey and awkward for basketball,

What do people in Louisville think about the location and overall design of the Yum facility?


I work quite a bit over at the fairgrounds. They had plenty of room to build a new Arena for half the price of the Yum Center.
 
Fred Glass renovated Assembly Hall and has made countless facility improvements without so much as putting it on the taxpayer.


That's why that guy has the job he has.

He is lucky to be an AD in a conference where other schools do the heavy lifting to bring in the money. His job should be to WIN, that would bring in a lot more money.
 
Fred needs to fix the football program. If you win. They will come. IU is missing out on a goldmine of revenue and media coverage by not having a winning football team that fills a big stadium's seats, and wins big bowl $ money. For most universities football is the primary athletics revenue generator.
 
Much more to do with the team than the venue, they
were not called the Dolts for nothing.

Colts were 14th (4-12) in attendance last year.

Colts (8-8) were 14th in 2016.

And 14th the previous 2 years which included a 12-4 season.

And without Luck, Colts might not win 4 this year. But I bet they are around 14th in attendance.

Seems like record really doesn’t have an effect on attendance.

But in the 80s, Colts drew terrible crowds.

What’s changed?
 
14th out of 32 ain't too shabby for a small market team, especially with their recent downturn.
 
Colts were 14th (4-12) in attendance last year.

Colts (8-8) were 14th in 2016.

And 14th the previous 2 years which included a 12-4 season.

And without Luck, Colts might not win 4 this year. But I bet they are around 14th in attendance.

Seems like record really doesn’t have an effect on attendance.

But in the 80s, Colts drew terrible crowds.

What’s changed?
What happened was Bill Polian & Peyton Manning demonstrated
that the Colts could win in Indianapolis and it
had nothing to do with architecture. Those that
attend today are hoping lightning will strike again.
 
What happened was Bill Polian & Peyton Manning demonstrated
that the Colts could win in Indianapolis and it
had nothing to do with architecture. Those that
attend today are hoping lightning will strike again.

lol

Any fan that remotely follows the Colts knows damn well lightning isn’t striking anytime soon. Manning hasn’t played for the Colts for 7 years......

The downtown is amazing now and destroying that s**t hole RCA dome is a big part of it.

Anyone that disagrees hasn’t been around Indy long...
 
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