Louisville is boarding up buildings and fencing off downtown

kurt cloverdales

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concrete barriers around the courthouse, good sign the ruling is about to come down and the cops wont be charged. What should the police do when the rioting starts? Lot of confusion last time on whether Mayor Fisher ordered units to stand down or not. going to get ugly I'm afraid. Something else that is total bullshit is the out of towners being bused in. tensions are high enough without outsiders stoking the fire.
 

The Vid

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Can you confirm the part about “out of towners being bused in.” From where?... Antifa headquarters in Henryville, IN? Not sure I’m buying it.
 

TDHoosier

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National Guard has also been called in, this could be a real shit show in Louisville. Originally there were many that were not locals doing the protesting and rioting, not sure the locals will need much help this time. The way Fisher has handled this has been laughable. I've said this before I'm glad there is a river separating where I reside and Louisville I'm just hoping it is enough.

Popcorn has been ordered at my house to watch the festivities.
 

The Vid

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Louisville has a democratic mayor? Must be that whole population density, college grads per capita thingy. Who knew?

I blame the democrats! The top 71 of 100 democratic lead cities are destroying this country! It’s like Afghanistan!
 

Courtsensetwo

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This situation certainly appears to be a botched raid that ended in the tragic death of a person who at worst is an accomplice to trafficking and not the target of the warrant. I cannot imagine the cops were trained to "spray and pray" the way they did and loss of career and civil action seem appropriate. What no one has been able to explain to me however, is why this is being held up as a racial situation by so many individuals and organizations such as BLM.
 

TDHoosier

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This situation certainly appears to be a botched raid that ended in the tragic death of a person who at worst is an accomplice to trafficking and not the target of the warrant. I cannot imagine the cops were trained to "spray and pray" the way they did and loss of career and civil action seem appropriate. What no one has been able to explain to me however, is why this is being held up as a racial situation by so many individuals and organizations such as BLM.
I cannot comment on the "spray and pray" statement because I was not there. I do know that if I'm an officer and fired upon I will always retaliate. It is sad she lost her life, so young and much to look forward to but you are correct this should not be racial. This is being treated as if the officers went up to her saw she was black and then began to fire.

She was on the warrant so she was someone they had interest in, just sad the outcome.
 

The Vid

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Really naive of you to ask why it’s racial considering decades of war on drugs policies adversely and inconsistently affecting people of color. They kicked down someone’s door in the middle of the night and shot them in their sleep over circumstantial evidence (rumored to be 14k in cash) and found nothing. Gee, I wonder why the civil rights groups show up?

It’s amazing how the pro gun crowd says they had a right to fire since they were fired upon. What would they do if someone kicked down their door at 1am unannounced? Also, interesting to hear what people consider “trafficking” and a “syndicate” and say that she was somehow involved. It‘s almost laughable how the consistent and brazen the character assignation playbook is used in these cases.
 
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INRanger27

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I cannot comment on the "spray and pray" statement because I was not there. I do know that if I'm an officer and fired upon I will always retaliate. It is sad she lost her life, so young and much to look forward to but you are correct this should not be racial. This is being treated as if the officers went up to her saw she was black and then began to fire.

She was on the warrant so she was someone they had interest in, just sad the outcome.
I’m glad you’re always super alert when woken out of bed at 1am on a weeknight by the sound of your front door being beaten down. I’m glad you’d knowingly have the presence of mind to calmly see if it’s the police and not marauders before reaching for your weapon to defend your home.

It was abjectly awful policing. Period. I don’t buy the race angle but it’s dogshit policing and everyone involved with it should have lost their ****ing jobs.
 

Courtsensetwo

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Really naive of you to ask why it’s racial considering decades of war on drugs policies adversely and inconsistently affecting people of color. They kicked down someone’s door in the middle of the night and shot them in their sleep over circumstantial evidence (rumored to be 14k in cash) and found nothing. Gee, I wonder why the civil rights groups show up?

It’s amazing how the pro gun crowd says they had a right to fire since they were fired upon. What would they do if someone kicked down their door at 1am unannounced? Also, interesting to hear what people consider “trafficking” and a “syndicate” and say that she was somehow involved. It‘s almost laughable how the consistent and brazen the character assignation playbook is used in these cases.
You have described nothing but what I did...a botched raid.
 

Courtsensetwo

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I cannot comment on the "spray and pray" statement because I was not there. I do know that if I'm an officer and fired upon I will always retaliate. It is sad she lost her life, so young and much to look forward to but you are correct this should not be racial. This is being treated as if the officers went up to her saw she was black and then began to fire.

She was on the warrant so she was someone they had interest in, just sad the outcome.

I used the term "spray and pray" based upon the attorney's complaint that described cops random shooting into the dark. Bad police work to say the least but not a race-based event.
 

TDHoosier

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Really naive of you to ask why it’s racial considering decades of war on drugs policies adversely and inconsistently affecting people of color. They kicked down someone’s door in the middle of the night and shot them in their sleep over circumstantial evidence (rumored to be 14k in cash) and found nothing. Gee, I wonder why the civil rights groups show up?

It’s amazing how the pro gun crowd says they had a right to fire since they were fired upon. What would they do if someone kicked down their door at 1am unannounced? Also, interesting to hear what people consider “trafficking” and a “syndicate” and say that she was somehow involved. It‘s almost laughable how the consistent and brazen the character assignation playbook is used in these cases.
So if you were fired upon and hit and you had a gun you wouldn't have retaliated? Good for you, maybe you missed your calling and should have been an officer. From the police side of the story they did announce who they were, I guess it is word against word again I was not there. The officer that randomly fired into the apartment was dismissed.

Again it is unfortunate that she was shot and killed, very tragic. To me civil rights groups should be campaigning in Louisville to stop the continued black on black crime. Week after week it is the same narrative over there, it truly is a sad state of affairs as bad as I've seen or heard in my 48 years of living in this area.
 

Courtsensetwo

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Failed war on drugs policies for decades = disproportionate racial profiling for crimes lacking moral turpitude. Drugs, traffic stops, etc... get it?

I’m fully aware you want all context in a vacuum to support your narrative.

I "get it". You have a narrative to parrot...so you do. You are unable to think for yourself.

I have no "narrative"...thus your melt downs.

Your...worst...Forking...nightmare.

Have a nice night Cletus.
 
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kurt cloverdales

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Can you confirm the part about “out of towners being bused in.” From where?... Antifa headquarters in Henryville, IN? Not sure I’m buying it.
been going on for weeks, one group from Atlanta came in a few weeks ago marching in formation carrying ak-47s, people in Henryville have there guns on a rack in there truck window
 

dbmhoosier

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been going on for weeks, one group from Atlanta came in a few weeks ago marching in formation carrying ak-47s, people in Henryville have there guns on a rack in there truck window
And why isn't the governor asking for the National Guard to come in? Is he an idiot?
 
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kurt cloverdales

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And why isn't the governor asking for the National Guard to come in? Is he an idiot?
really hasn't been any rioting or looting except in isolated cases since the 1st weekend this all started. What they have done is set the city of Louisville back 20 years. downtown used to be a shithole, but has experienced amazing growth in retail and housing the last 15 years. that's all shot to hell now black lives matter has hurt the black community economically more than they will ever help them socially.
 

i'vegotwinners

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This situation certainly appears to be a botched raid that ended in the tragic death of a person who at worst is an accomplice to trafficking and not the target of the warrant. I cannot imagine the cops were trained to "spray and pray" the way they did and loss of career and civil action seem appropriate. What no one has been able to explain to me however, is why this is being held up as a racial situation by so many individuals and organizations such as BLM.
this whole tragedy began when a no knock warrant was issued for a possibly/maybe drug bust. (and exactly what drug are we talking about)?

once the no knock scenario was set into motion by the warrant, control of the situation was totally out of the hands of both those in the home and those breaking into it.

what could possibly go wrong.
 

i'vegotwinners

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if rioters are looking at something to burn down, they can start with statehouses and the US Supreme court, but then rioters are like terrorists in that they are looking for soft targets, not those actually to blame for their grievance.

on a side note, while i've seen "drugs" listed as the premise for the warrant a thousand times, i've never seen any mention as to what kind of drugs we're talking about.

this is just totally lazy and incompetent reporting.

like saying someone is suspected of breaking the law, without any mention of precisely what law, be it anywhere from jay walking to negligent homicide.

our country has seen no bigger total and complete clusterfk disaster than the war on drugs, and yet the powers that be aren't about to let that absolute reality influence their incompetence.

fact is, imo all this animosity of the cops and authority in general by blacks is rooted far far more in the war on drugs than anything else.

but the war is such a convenient perpetual boot on the neck of the underclass, that the powers aren't willing to give it up despite the fact that the war has served only to drive use from pot, acid, and coke, to crack, heroin, meth, and fentanyl, by forcing pot smokers to go to the coke, crack, meth, heroin, fenanyl, store to get their pot.

another "what could possibly go wrong" policy decision.
 
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kurt cloverdales

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if rioters are looking at something to burn down, they can start with statehouses and the US Supreme court, but then rioters are like terrorists in that they are looking for soft targets, not those actually to blame for their grievance.

on a side note, while i've seen "drugs" listed as the premise for the warrant a thousand times, i've never seen any mention as to what kind of drugs we're talking about.

this is just totally lazy and incompetent reporting.

like saying someone is suspected of breaking the law, without any mention of precisely what law, be it anywhere from jay walking to negligent homicide.

our country has seen no bigger total and complete clusterfk disaster than the war on drugs, and yet the powers that be aren't about to let that absolute reality influence their incompetence.

fact is, imo all this animosity of the cops and authority in general by blacks is rooted far far more in the war on drugs than anything else.

but the war is such a convenient perpetual boot on the neck of the underclass, that the powers aren't willing to give it up despite the fact that the war has served only to drive use from pot, acid, and coke, to crack, heroin, meth, and fentanyl, by forcing pot smokers to go the coke, crack, meth, heroin, fenanyl, store to get their pot.

another "what could possibly go wrong" policy decision.
they were looking for money more than drugs, she posted a lot of high cash bonds for some of her boyfriends and acquaintances, sure blacks have animosity towards cops and authority over drugs, its 90 percent of the economy in the hood
 
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mcmurtry66

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if rioters are looking at something to burn down, they can start with statehouses and the US Supreme court, but then rioters are like terrorists in that they are looking for soft targets, not those actually to blame for their grievance.

on a side note, while i've seen "drugs" listed as the premise for the warrant a thousand times, i've never seen any mention as to what kind of drugs we're talking about.

this is just totally lazy and incompetent reporting.

like saying someone is suspected of breaking the law, without any mention of precisely what law, be it anywhere from jay walking to negligent homicide.

our country has seen no bigger total and complete clusterfk disaster than the war on drugs, and yet the powers that be aren't about to let that absolute reality influence their incompetence.

fact is, imo all this animosity of the cops and authority in general by blacks is rooted far far more in the war on drugs than anything else.

but the war is such a convenient perpetual boot on the neck of the underclass, that the powers aren't willing to give it up despite the fact that the war has served only to drive use from pot, acid, and coke, to crack, heroin, meth, and fentanyl, by forcing pot smokers to go the coke, crack, meth, heroin, fenanyl, store to get their pot.

another "what could possibly go wrong" policy decision.
i'm not sure the logic behind no-knock warrants is sound. unless i'm mistaken i believe the idea is that they're safer for cops because the suspects are dangerous. i'm not sure surprising the shit out of "dangerous" people is any safer for cops. what's more in my view the risk isn't worth it over drugs - any drugs. child abduction. heightened criminal shit. fine. but not drug busts. and i think that dates back to nixon era
 

ulrey

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earle Indiana
this whole tragedy began when a no knock warrant was issued for a possibly/maybe drug bust. (and exactly what drug are we talking about)?

once the no knock scenario was set into motion by the warrant, control of the situation was totally out of the hands of both those in the home and those breaking into it.

what could possibly go wrong.
Drugs that can be flushed down the toilet??
 
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hoosboot

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i'm not sure the logic behind no-knock warrants is sound. unless i'm mistaken i believe the idea is that they're safer for cops because the suspects are dangerous. i'm not sure surprising the shit out of "dangerous" people is any safer for cops. what's more in my view the risk isn't worth it over drugs - any drugs. child abduction. heightened criminal shit. fine. but not drug busts. and i think that dates back to nixon era
No-knock warrants are an extremely dangerous and delicate thing. There is so much possibility of a bad outcome that it seems like there are much more effective policing measures to take.

That said, the tenor that the suspended Louisville officer took in his email to his colleagues was a huge sign of the attitude problem that exists in that department and reflective of some issues that other departments may face as well. There are SO many good police officers, but the "to protect and serve" attitude needs to be where we begin in all of our public institutions.
 

mcmurtry66

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No-knock warrants are an extremely dangerous and delicate thing. There is so much possibility of a bad outcome that it seems like there are much more effective policing measures to take.

That said, the tenor that the suspended Louisville officer took in his email to his colleagues was a huge sign of the attitude problem that exists in that department and reflective of some issues that other departments may face as well. There are SO many good police officers, but the "to protect and serve" attitude needs to be where we begin in all of our public institutions.
Agreed on all counts.
 
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twenty02

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i'm not sure the logic behind no-knock warrants is sound. unless i'm mistaken i believe the idea is that they're safer for cops because the suspects are dangerous. i'm not sure surprising the shit out of "dangerous" people is any safer for cops. what's more in my view the risk isn't worth it over drugs - any drugs. child abduction. heightened criminal shit. fine. but not drug busts. and i think that dates back to nixon era

If you take away drug raids.. there isn't enough business to keep the rambo wannabes busy.

Knocking down doors to grab drugs and cash is the disgusting behavior of a police state run wild. I'm sure it was likely a regular bonus night operation for these cops. I'm sure they were all expecting to find $25k and turn in $12k. And what was left over gets civilly forfeited.... boosting the department bottom line as well.

50 years of the worst public policy in modern human history, in relation to "free" democracies. The damage will take another 50 years to recover from.
 
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Courtsensetwo

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this whole tragedy began when a no knock warrant was issued for a possibly/maybe drug bust. (and exactly what drug are we talking about)?

once the no knock scenario was set into motion by the warrant, control of the situation was totally out of the hands of both those in the home and those breaking into it.

what could possibly go wrong.
No doubt. I am glad the city paid up. IMO the ones facing charges should be the judge and police management that put the ball in play. The cops were in a lose lose situation...and everyone lost.
 

Marvin the Martian

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No doubt. I am glad the city paid up. IMO the ones facing charges should be the judge and police management that put the ball in play. The cops were in a lose lose situation...and everyone lost.
USAToday has a couple stories police training is to blame as it is outdated. The first suggests police are trained to act first then think. In the Rice shooting, the dispatcher knew Rice had a toy gun, no responding officer thought to ask if there was more information before leaping out of their cars immediately before arrival. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ite-training-defense-its-outdated/5861668002/


This article is an officer saying he and his dad attended the police academy 22 years apart and received the same training. He says that the military uses service academies to insert some leadership directly, the police always work their way up. He believes the police need to revise that part as well and have leadership brought in new and up from the bottom. I suspect this would help foster an openness to new ideas. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5342917002

I see Franklin Indiana wants to hire in an officer/Crisis Intervention Specialist. The person will have a degree in Social work and work with people having a mental breakdown. Kudos to Franklin. https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox59....crisis-intervention-officer-body-cameras/amp/
 
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Courtsensetwo

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USAToday has a couple stories police training is to blame as it is outdated. The first suggests police are trained to act first then think. In the Rice shooting, the dispatcher knew Rice had a toy gun, no responding officer thought to ask if there was more information before leaping out of their cars immediately before arrival. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ite-training-defense-its-outdated/5861668002/


This article is an officer saying he and his dad attended the police academy 22 years apart and received the same training. He says that the military uses service academies to insert some leadership directly, the police always work their way up. He believes the police need to revise that part as well and have leadership brought in new and up from the bottom. I suspect this would help foster an openness to new ideas. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5342917002

I see Franklin Indiana wants to hire in an officer/Crisis Intervention Specialist. The person will have a degree in Social work and work with people having a mental breakdown. Kudos to Franklin. https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox59....crisis-intervention-officer-body-cameras/amp/
There are some among the "defund" crowd that have the right understanding and intentions, the label "defund" is unfortunate and paints all with the same negative brush.

Restructuring who and how responses are executed makes a ton of sense as with the franklin, IN example you note. Many...many police runs are blind entries into a mental crisis situation where experts in social and psychology disciplines (with backup) are better suited than a standard issue cop alone. The outcomes IMO will be more consistently peaceful.
 

IUCrazy2

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No-knock warrants are an extremely dangerous and delicate thing. There is so much possibility of a bad outcome that it seems like there are much more effective policing measures to take.

That said, the tenor that the suspended Louisville officer took in his email to his colleagues was a huge sign of the attitude problem that exists in that department and reflective of some issues that other departments may face as well. There are SO many good police officers, but the "to protect and serve" attitude needs to be where we begin in all of our public institutions.
I don't have a problem with the officer's attitude, in fact, I completely get where he is coming from. Most politicians tend to run on that whole "tough on crime" thing. They are going to hire more police, we are going to put them in the high crime areas, and we are going to lower that crime rate. That is what most voters want...even in the areas that are more heavily policed. So the politicians send ths police out to do their thing and then abandon them whenever something goes awry. In this case, this guy is told to go out and shut down a house that a known drug dealer was prone to hang out in. A house owned by a lady who kept dropping large amounts of cash to bail this asshole out whenever the cops would do the job they were asked and put him in jail. They show up and do the no knock (something that I think needs revisited but it is an allowed tactic at this time), they get shot at, and they return fire. Then the same people asking them to go out and do this stuff for votes throw them under the bus as racist police and all that.

I would not take $100k a year to be a cop in any of our larger population centers (and I am not talking New York...I mean Evansville, Ft. Wayne type places and larger) because you are expected to be a bullet magnet for repeat offenders who keep getting let back into the populace as their crimes become increasingly more dangerous.

The police you are going to get after this are those who feel they don't have many other options or those who like the thrill of the power or the thrill of the action. And in the short term, that uptick in murder rates since the beginning of the summer is going to remain an uptick because for cops, it is not worth policing a community that will ruin your life because you shot one of their people that has been terrorizing them. This is the same thing that was kind of a failure in Iraq and Afghanistan. There is basically a group of domestic terrorists that is mixed in with good people, but sometimes those terrorists are the good people's son, nephew, friend of the family, etc. So while they want you to deal with those other bad guys, they get pissed when you deal with one of their own.
 

INRanger27

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No-knock warrants are an extremely dangerous and delicate thing. There is so much possibility of a bad outcome that it seems like there are much more effective policing measures to take.

That said, the tenor that the suspended Louisville officer took in his email to his colleagues was a huge sign of the attitude problem that exists in that department and reflective of some issues that other departments may face as well. There are SO many good police officers, but the "to protect and serve" attitude needs to be where we begin in all of our public institutions.
Couldn’t agree more. This guy just perpetuates the meathead stereotype that I’ve seen the bad cops have.

I was at a wedding reception table, years ago, with two guys that are cops in the metro area near which I live. I had just returned from the Middle East and they were picking my brain on a lot of things about patrolling and urban combat tactics. I was surprised that they needed to know all of this and they both just went on and on about all the “shitheads” in their areas of responsibility and insinuated they were basically writing off most of the populace. Big time meathead mentality.
 

kurt cloverdales

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Couldn’t agree more. This guy just perpetuates the meathead stereotype that I’ve seen the bad cops have.

I was at a wedding reception table, years ago, with two guys that are cops in the metro area near which I live. I had just returned from the Middle East and they were picking my brain on a lot of things about patrolling and urban combat tactics. I was surprised that they needed to know all of this and they both just went on and on about all the “shitheads” in their areas of responsibility and insinuated they were basically writing off most of the populace. Big time meathead mentality.
go walk the streets with them I know a lot of cops , I wouldn't do that job for a million dollars a year
 
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