And no one cares about your inane and uninformed opinions, let alone your tortured version of English. Go try to bore someone else, please. You’re not welcome here. You’ve spread plenty of your fertilizer already.
Leal is Indiana Mr. Basketball....
- Thread starter jimmygoiu
- Start date
I’d consider those schools, with the exception of Purdue and Wisconsin, elite. Neither Purdue or Wisconsin have shown enough success in the NCAAs for that. Gotta get Final Fours, and the occasional title for elite, in my opinion. It’s been a while since MSU won one. But they routinely put themselves in position by making final fours. Virginia might actually be similar to PU or Wisky, I guess. They got pretty lucky last year in the PU game. Easily could have been PU in the Final Four...shudder. But I just feel their title/run, is more repeatable than Purdue’s.
Would I take Wisconsin’s results NOW, yes. If someone handed me their 20-30 year history and said you can have this with Archie, would you take it?...no, I wouldn’t. Not enough post season success. Purdue didn’t even have as good a season as IU this past year. Doesn’t have any five star kids on their roster or coming in. They beat IU twice, yes, but that doesn’t mean they’re in a better spot as a program than IU, they aren’t.
VanPastorMan
Hall of Famer
My point in using Wisconsin and Purdue is that, for IU to be “elite”, they’ll first need to ascend to the level of schools like UW and PU. And, yes, PU is currently in a better spot than IU. That’s hard to say as a lifelong IU fan, but denying it is fruitless, given the results of the last couple of decades.
VanPastorMan
Hall of Famer
My opinion on why PU is in a better spot is because of Painter's longevity. Look at how many coaches PU has had in the last 40 years. It's two. Painter has been there for 15 yrs as the head coach and served as an assistant before that. Look at IU. How many coaches have we had since IU Knight left? We've had four and that is only since 2000. Which program has more stability?
Longevity has served them well, but it has to be the right guy for it to work. Think Purdue, MSU and UW in hoops and Iowa and Wisconsin in football. You must have the right guy, and that only happens if the people doing the choosing know what they're doing. IU has had so much trouble because the people in charge of hiring weren’t competent.
Purdue has certainly been more consistently above average than IU in the last 20 years. They don’t have a final four though. Did any of the Hummel teams get a 1 seed? Anyway...no, nothing in their last 20 years, combined with where they’re sitting today with their current roster, 21 recruits, how their team looked late in the year this past season, Painters history on doing “elite” type stuff, says they’re in a better spot than IU.
At least with Archie theirs an element of unknown. He’s only entering his 4th season as a high major coach. He showed good postseason success at his last job. So it’s not outlandish to think when he gets IU into that position he’ll do well with IU too. Painter has largely been a terrible post season coach. And he has a long history of being terrible. So it’s not likely gonna change. I’d rather have the hope of the unknown with Archie.
VanPastorMan
Hall of Famer
That is a good point because when the,"fire Crean" talk started I was ok with it as long as we had a can't miss hire. You don't fire a guy without a great plan to replace him.
I wouldn’t ever refer to Painter as “terrible”, but they’ve never done well in the tournament with the exception of 2019. As for IU, the “hope of the unknown” sums p where we are as a program, in a best case scenario, and that’s the problem.
The only “unknown” I have with Archies IU program is how we’ll be in the NCAAs when he starts getting there.
Next years team will improve like his first three teams did. That will finally make us a solid NCAA team. His teams will stay there. Which will make us “Purdue like”. To me, that’s a given. It’ll take something big changing our current trend or path. Injuries maybe?
The only unknown is how we’ll do in the NCAAs when we get there. I’ll take Archies Dayton performances and the hope of what he’ll do here at IU over Painters very established track record of failing in the NCAAs.
Painter has built a solid program. They make the NCAA nearly every year. Making only 1 run of any kind in what, 15 years?...is terrible.
Saying and hoping it will happen doesn’t make it a given. He has to actually make it occur. I think they would’ve barely made it this past year, but they were literally at the tail end of the field, and it was obvious they weren’t ready for prime time in the Big 10. They likely would’ve lost their next game in the BTT and would’ve been one and done in the ncaa tournament. So, any upward movement has been extremely modest, and I have yet to see any kind of positive culture associated with the program under Miller’s leadership. I think it’s also a roster that needs to be injury free just to have a chance to get to the middle of the conference, and that’s not a great look entering Year 4. Miller will get five years at IU no matter what, so he’s not going anywhere. Unfortunately, I’m not sure the program is going anywhere, either.
First post of yours I agree with. We are literally 1-2 plays away from finishing games. That is a leadership problem. Will it change with a new crop of players coming? I sure hope so. Making the tournament is still making the tournament though.
They were one or two plays from finishing some games, but that’s typical of any team in any season. The concern some of us have are the games where they sleepwalk through large stretches of games, never giving themselves a chance to consider winning. That happens far too often, especially well into the third season of Miller’s tenure.
It’s a concern for most IU fans I’d say, even the ones that think we’re in a good spot...me included.
The long scoring droughts particularly...they can be partly attributed to not having a consistent outside shooter. But that’s only part of it, Archie needs to develop something to stop bad stretches. Better timeout usage, better/quicker realization that we’re going off the rails, some better go to plays to get us back on track, improving substitution patterns and rotations, etc... I think a lot of this will be solved by having better quality depth inside and outside, and having any sort of improved perimeter shooting. The book is always out once you get into conference season. Teams that aren’t balanced are easier to guard and stop. We were obviously very reliant on interior play. And too many times, teams loaded up on Brunk and TJD, and clogged the driving lanes...we got open looks from the outside as a result, but couldn’t consistently hit them. Archie has to be better at dealing with these things. That’s my main concern with him. Every year he’ll be 1 or 2 injuries away from being back in the same boat.
But having said all this. The talent is up. The bad losses are down. We beat a good number of very good teams. We were an NCAA team. We had won one B10 tourney game...cant remember who we had next, but I’m sure it would have been a good game. And we’d have had the excitement back from seeing our name on Selection Sunday, and the week leading up. Who knows what would have happened. Probably a 7-10 game...those are usually toss ups.
Going forward...Lander and Leal are both better shooters than our current guards. Galloway is a glue guy that should be able to guard multiple positions, and I’m sure will be a solid overall offensive guy. Getting more minutes from Race and Jerome will make us more versatile, better defensively, and harder to guard.
Overall I get what you’re saying. Lord knows I had some very colorful text venting sessions about Archie the last 3 years. But it’s not hard to see how Archie is addressing weaknesses in his program. Slower than many think...but we are getting better. If he does get two more years, and sees the same level of improvement we’ve had his first three years...I think we’ll have a top tier B10 team, that’s knocking on the door of being an elite program again. And it’ll have been built with a very solid foundation. It won’t be a Crean like program. It’ll be much more Izzo like.
The issues go well beyond on court capabilities. There’s no leadership. No one takes charge, players aren’t accountable to each other or the coach. Worse, the lack of accountability has no consequences. As a result, it’s essentially validated. So it flourishes. That’s the lack of culture that is directly attributable to coaching. And it’s still prevalent within the program and, until it changes, talent spikes won’t matter.
Let's just sit back and let the kid enjoy the Mr. Basketball Honor and appreciate it for what is. An award to a High School player who had a great High School Career. Whether he will have a great College Career remains to be seen.
Speculating on what he will do beyond this is like looking at the valedictorian of a small high school class who has earned a Scholarship to a Highly regarded University and saying out of hand that the kid will be in over his head and flunk out after the first semester.
Here’s where you lose me. I seriously doubt you’re close enough to the program to actually know these things are true. And there’s no way, watching from the outside, that you can pick up on the things you mention.
At times they appeared to not like each other much. At other times, they looked like they loved each other. Archie is always going to be a sour, pissy looking guy. He’s obviously compelling enough to land 3 straight Mr Basketball winners. And as I’m sure you know, those types of recruitments come down to a group of people believing in Archie and what he’s doing as much as anything.
Hes also relied very heavily on kids he didn’t originally recruit. This years team needed Green, Al, Justin, even Deron to get to where they got. And I have no clue of this, it’s just a perception from my couch, but none of those guys help a coach out much in terms of leadership. But he didn’t have the luxury to sit all of them. We didn’t have enough talent besides them.
Next year, he absolutely will be able to sit kids like Al and Justin if they’re not pulling in the direction he wants. Or Kristian, or Rob...we’ll finally have quality depth up and down the roster. Which he’s not had yet.
Poor and / or reckless play doesn’t have consequences. Consistent displays of mental shortcomings in games don’t have consequences. Selfish and destructive play doesn’t have consequences. That’s fact, and it’s all one needs to see to determine there’s no culture (at least not a winning culture).
You go to the practices?
Who we playing instead of Green, Justin and Al. Those are the guys most responsible for the stuff you mention. Do we make the NCAAs without them?
Did you notice the long periods Green was on the bench this year? And that he didn’t play late in many games?
I’ll guess Archie would have loved to bench kids after every dumb mistake. The depth of talent wasn’t there to do that.
I find it very hard to believe someone that grew up how Archie did, made a playing career out of being a hard nosed leader, made a name for himself for having gritty, hard nosed teams at Dayton, all of a sudden abandoned all those things at IU. An iconic program built on those same principals.
I also doubt he’d be making the inroads in recruiting the top levels of the state if the state of the program is what you mentioned. Coach Galloway gonna send his son into that? JR Holmes and the Leal family gonna buy into someone that’s just allowing anything to go?
I don’t know the answer. But logic tells me no. The decision making groups for Langford, Phinisee, TJD, Hunter, Lander, Leal, Galloway, etc... they all either overlooked or don’t care about you’re seeing, or they got to know the program on a deeper level, and know what you’re claiming isn’t true. Which is more likely?
Those are all well worn excuses, but none of it explains why guys who do dumb and / or selfish things didn't face consequences for it. Miller has been the coach for three seasons. The roster is his and his alone, and it’s composition is his responsibility. When you go 4-11 against the top 10 teams in the Big 10, too many things aren’t working, and that includes the coaching.
So Painter should be fired? He finished worse than Archie...with a long since established program.
I agree. There are things wrong in the program. He’s fixing them.
I don’t know how much teeth IUs Bill of Rights has. But it seems that Archie couldn’t just boot the Greens and Smiths off the team. Maybe he would have preferred that? Outside that possibility...maybe playing them, and trying to win games was his decision.
And I’ll return to you having no clue whether they’re are consequences or not. I averaged 36 minutes a game my Junior year of college. Yet I knew there were very real consequences to errors and mental lapses in practices.
I have, you have, no one outside the program has any idea how he holds them accountable. Using Green as an example, Archie explained very clearly why he let him play through mistakes...he felt the 3-4 bucket explosions he was capable of outweighed them. Until he didn’t, when he effectively benched him later in the year. He had a quick leash with Al and his mistakes.
My long winded point is that you’re projecting something that you really have no clue about...And it might be causing you to miss some very real improvements.
And you’re also not answering why so many good recruits are choosing to play for him. And why he’s the first coach since RMK to really start to get a handle on consistent recruiting in the state. Which also goes against your current argument against him.
Just asking the question. Is he better than Lander, Furst, Galloway
vs IUs continued tournament success over the past 15 years. Crimson glasses logic??
How many of those has Archie been apart of?
Painter didn’t finish below him, and it was one year since Purdue was an overtime loss away from the FF.
And, no, there haven’t been consequences for poor and selfish play, especially when IU went 4-11 against the top ten teams in the BiG. That’s 4-11. And while Miller May have offered an explanation for not holding players accountable, those excuses didn’t improve the performance of the team or the record against the BiG. It was dismal, no matter how many excuses you make for it. Those excuses generally are due to lowered expectations, something you obviously have given your defense of the mediocrity we’ve seen. So many good recruits? You mean like the ones you’ve likely never seen play and “evaluate” via highlight tapes? Your lack of knowledge shines through when you defend lowered expectations and excuse poor play. It’s the newbie IU fan’s go to move.
How do you know there haven’t been consequences?
I watched 3 of Galloways games on TV. scouted CA for our high school coach.
I watched 2 of Leals games on TV. Also saw both he and Galloway play half a dozen AAU games this past summer.
Haven’t seen anything but highlights on Geronimo. Indicated as much.
Having played college ball. Coached at the high school and college level. Done quite a lot of scouting for college and high school coaches...I’d put my overall basketball knowledge fairly high. Don’t know you or really anyone else on this board, so I don’t know how you’d stack up.
You sound like one of my emotional texts during the season. They aren’t wrong, but they lack perspective and the general understanding of where we’ve been as a program for 30 years. And you probably need a more realistic view of who we can be, and how long it’ll take to get there.
As you say, Archie is likely gonna be here for a couple more years. Let’s see how his roster with 3 Mr Basketballs, 2 five star kids, and a bunch of other solid Indiana kids can do.
edit: 2 Mr basketballs...
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Mr Basketball is rewarded to a senior. Leal beat out Galloway for the title while Lander, Furst, and Kaufman (Gatorade POTY) are juniors. The vote says he's the best senior in the state, not necessarily the best player.
Because the chief violators continued to be key parts of the program and garnered most of the playing time, even as their actions proved to have a negative impact on the program. How are not aware of this? You obviously don’t watch if this isn’t clear to you (or don’t know what you’re watching).
As for incoming recruits, you and others shower them with plaudits before they ever step on the floor, only to face the reality of their limitations once games begin. We’re seeing it yet again with incoming kids and commitments, with most of the potential viewed via highlight tapes. And you get caught up in superficial labels that say little about their actual abilities to meaningfully contribute. References to 5 star kids is a dead giveaway of the shallow evaluation that you and others rely on as legitimate. All the while, you ignore the shortcomings of the program, as well as the weak schedule and, notably, the results. It’s why, when you puff things up yet again, many of us roll our eyes and prepare ourselves for the next wave of excuses that inevitably follow like clockwork.
Green was the chief violator. He was our most talented offensive player, and a senior. Yet his playing time was cut later in the year, often times not in at the ends of games. So you’re wrong on him.
Justin Smith might be next? He was our best defender, not even close...so while he drove me crazy at times on offense...I can see the argument for him having to play because of his defense.
One area I might agree is Al, Rob, and Arman. I’d have liked to have seen more minutes from Arman. But I likely diverge from you in that k thought he had way too short of a leash with Rob. But that obviously could have been a measure of Rob dealing with injuries. Just seemed like when Rob made mental errors he came out immediately. Al not so much. But I’d guess Al earned a longer leash in practices. Just a guess. But he appeared to be a guy that played hard all/most of the time. That may have led to Robs shorter leash too?
My expectations are just fine. IU should be one of the top programs in the B10. And they should be a team most years that can make some noise in the tourney. And by virtue of our history, name recognition, fan base, money, etc...we should separate ourselves from the Purdue’s of the region with a sprinkling of top 20 kids that will push us to a team that can make final fours, and win titles occasionally.
Thats where I expect any IU coach to get IU. Im just more comfortable with the path we’re on to get there than you are evidently.
And I have zero confidence in the admin to have the balls to go get Donovan or Stevens. Who might be the only two guys, that would even have the slightest glimmer of a hope that we could get them...that I’d gamble the foundation that Archie has built for.
Its not excepting mediocrity, it’s believing in the path we’re on. If we’re a bubble team next year or the year after...that belief changes.[/QUOTE]
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[/QUOTE]
Exactly what I saw and feel. Als biggest issue is he’s turnover prone. His handles need a lot of work. Phin had better get it together because I see him getting pushed by a very talented, cocky and quick guard. Those type of players will make the rest better. I also think the process will take every bit of year 4 and 5.
[/QUOTE]
Excuses notwithstanding (and you’ve made several), if you’re comfortable with the path we’re on, great for you. Some of us see a decided lack of progress combined with a coach who appears to be over his head and the inevitability of failing to meet our expectations seems certain. We’ll find out in the next couple of years, but I’ll be surprised if more and more of the fan base doesn’t follow you and many others in believing that top half in the BiG and tournament berths in most years is more than suitable.
Excuses notwithstanding (and you’ve made several), if you’re comfortable with the path we’re on, great for you. Some of us see a decided lack of progress combined with a coach who appears to be over his head and the inevitability of failing to meet our expectations seems certain. We’ll find out in the next couple of years, but I’ll be surprised if more and more of the fan base doesn’t follow you and many others in believing that top half in the BiG and tournament berths in most years is more than suitable.[/QUOTE]
I just listed my expectations, reread them if necessary. I’m just a realist and know it wasn’t going to happen overnight... at least not when you factor in where we are with our admin, and the never forgotten sting from the Sampson hire. We just aren’t going to get a guy that will immediately turn things around. No cheaters like Cal or Pitino...no can’t miss guys that would cost a fortune like Donovan. It was always gonna be a multi year process. How are you still hanging on? We’ve been largely mediocre for 30 years.
Your concerns are valid though, which is why I haven’t lowered myself to belittling your views or input...like you have with a bunch of people on here. I all but guarantee you’ve tried to belittle someone that’s A LOT smarter and closer to the program than you are. Nothing wrong with sticking to your guns without belittling people. It’s tacky.
It also seems that nuance isn’t something you pick up on. There are improvements, to deny that there are shows how absolute you’re looking at this whole thing. Recruiting, offensive and defensive efficiency numbers, making the NCAA versus not, not losing to teams like IPFW any more, winning a few road games In the conference, winning neutral court games against decent high major teams...there are signs of improvement. There are also areas of concern, as you’re obviously focusing on. But even many of those are improving, changing. Green riding tons of pine as the conference season wore down. To me that’s a sign that Archie isn’t going to just let guys make mistakes, as you keep insisting. And it’s a sign we have more depth, which we do.
Also, Instead of turning the 4 game losing streak into a season ending 7-8 game losing streak, or worse, like we’ve seen in his first two years...we beat two ranked teams and a solid bubble team on the road.
There are things to be optimistic about. There are things to be pessimistic about. I think the list former is growing, while the list for the latter is shrinking. Hope that continues. We’ll be a damn good team and program fairly soon if it does.
I just listed my expectations, reread them if necessary. I’m just a realist and know it wasn’t going to happen overnight... at least not when you factor in where we are with our admin, and the never forgotten sting from the Sampson hire. We just aren’t going to get a guy that will immediately turn things around. No cheaters like Cal or Pitino...no can’t miss guys that would cost a fortune like Donovan. It was always gonna be a multi year process. How are you still hanging on? We’ve been largely mediocre for 30 years.
Your concerns are valid though, which is why I haven’t lowered myself to belittling your views or input...like you have with a bunch of people on here. I all but guarantee you’ve tried to belittle someone that’s A LOT smarter and closer to the program than you are. Nothing wrong with sticking to your guns without belittling people. It’s tacky.
It also seems that nuance isn’t something you pick up on. There are improvements, to deny that there are shows how absolute you’re looking at this whole thing. Recruiting, offensive and defensive efficiency numbers, making the NCAA versus not, not losing to teams like IPFW any more, winning a few road games In the conference, winning neutral court games against decent high major teams...there are signs of improvement. There are also areas of concern, as you’re obviously focusing on. But even many of those are improving, changing. Green riding tons of pine as the conference season wore down. To me that’s a sign that Archie isn’t going to just let guys make mistakes, as you keep insisting. And it’s a sign we have more depth, which we do.
Also, Instead of turning the 4 game losing streak into a season ending 7-8 game losing streak, or worse, like we’ve seen in his first two years...we beat two ranked teams and a solid bubble team on the road.
There are things to be optimistic about. There are things to be pessimistic about. I think the list former is growing, while the list for the latter is shrinking. Hope that continues. We’ll be a damn good team and program fairly soon if it does.
Exactly what I saw and feel. Als biggest issue is he’s turnover prone. His handles need a lot of work. Phin had better get it together because I see him getting pushed by a very talented, cocky and quick guard. Those type of players will make the rest better. I also think the process will take every bit of year 4 and 5.[/QUOTE]
Rob is a very important guy for us. We need him healthy. But also need him consistently Solid on both ends of the floor. If we can get that out of him all year, and if Lander is good enough to push he and Al for playing time. I think we’ll see some big jumps this year. It’s no secret when Rob has played well these last couple seasons, IU has been very good.
Doesnt necessarily have to be Rob any more. Could be Lander, Franklin, Galloway, or any combination of those. Gotta get better lead guard play is the point. When we do, it makes this team top 20 caliber.
Rob is a very important guy for us. We need him healthy. But also need him consistently Solid on both ends of the floor. If we can get that out of him all year, and if Lander is good enough to push he and Al for playing time. I think we’ll see some big jumps this year. It’s no secret when Rob has played well these last couple seasons, IU has been very good.
Doesnt necessarily have to be Rob any more. Could be Lander, Franklin, Galloway, or any combination of those. Gotta get better lead guard play is the point. When we do, it makes this team top 20 caliber.
I just listed my expectations, reread them if necessary. I’m just a realist and know it wasn’t going to happen overnight... at least not when you factor in where we are with our admin, and the never forgotten sting from the Sampson hire. We just aren’t going to get a guy that will immediately turn things around. No cheaters like Cal or Pitino...no can’t miss guys that would cost a fortune like Donovan. It was always gonna be a multi year process. How are you still hanging on? We’ve been largely mediocre for 30 years.
Your concerns are valid though, which is why I haven’t lowered myself to belittling your views or input...like you have with a bunch of people on here. I all but guarantee you’ve tried to belittle someone that’s A LOT smarter and closer to the program than you are. Nothing wrong with sticking to your guns without belittling people. It’s tacky.
It also seems that nuance isn’t something you pick up on. There are improvements, to deny that there are shows how absolute you’re looking at this whole thing. Recruiting, offensive and defensive efficiency numbers, making the NCAA versus not, not losing to teams like IPFW any more, winning a few road games In the conference, winning neutral court games against decent high major teams...there are signs of improvement. There are also areas of concern, as you’re obviously focusing on. But even many of those are improving, changing. Green riding tons of pine as the conference season wore down. To me that’s a sign that Archie isn’t going to just let guys make mistakes, as you keep insisting. And it’s a sign we have more depth, which we do.
Also, Instead of turning the 4 game losing streak into a season ending 7-8 game losing streak, or worse, like we’ve seen in his first two years...we beat two ranked teams and a solid bubble team on the road.
There are things to be optimistic about. There are things to be pessimistic about. I think the list former is growing, while the list for the latter is shrinking. Hope that continues. We’ll be a damn good team and program fairly soon if it does.[/QUOTE]
Lol.You did make excuses, even if you claim otherwise. Then, you puff yourself up by claiming to take the high road, only to do what you said you had not (belittle my views, simply and only because they differ from your own). It’s right out of the lowered expectations script.
You can continue to foster lower those much more modest goals for the program and make excuses for failure after failure to your heart’s content, as no one is stopping you. It’s just strange that you are so critical, as well as intolerant of and threatened by others who want more. Miller will be here for a couple more years, at least and, if he gets us into the top half of the conference, I’m certain he’ll be extended and more robustly compensated. If he is pushed out, however, I have no doubt that the bigotry of soft expectations will be transferred to the next coach. After all, to quote a former coach, “It’s Indiana!”
Lol.You did make excuses, even if you claim otherwise. Then, you puff yourself up by claiming to take the high road, only to do what you said you had not (belittle my views, simply and only because they differ from your own). It’s right out of the lowered expectations script.
You can continue to foster lower those much more modest goals for the program and make excuses for failure after failure to your heart’s content, as no one is stopping you. It’s just strange that you are so critical, as well as intolerant of and threatened by others who want more. Miller will be here for a couple more years, at least and, if he gets us into the top half of the conference, I’m certain he’ll be extended and more robustly compensated. If he is pushed out, however, I have no doubt that the bigotry of soft expectations will be transferred to the next coach. After all, to quote a former coach, “It’s Indiana!”[/QUOTE]
What excuses? Just listing specific counterpoints to some of your concerns. Not sure you’ve done that much with me, or others. Other than 4-11 against top half of B10...9 of which were solid NCAA tourney teams. Excuse? Or maybe a bit of nuance that should be considered...as not all 4-11s against top halves of conferences are created equal.
Not sure what I’ve typed is in any way equivalent to how you’ve interacted with many on this board. I’m pretty careful to say words like “seems” because I obviously don’t know you or what your knowledge and experiences are. You’re much more absolute with your proclamations about others...that you can’t have any way of knowing.
Anyway. Yet again. I’ve made my expectations clear a few times. Here they are again. They haven’t changed since I started following IU basketball 34-35 years ago. It’s caused me A LOT of frustration and stress because they haven’t met them since RMKs 94 team.
-Compete for Big Ten title most years
-Recruit enough elite level kids to have a shot at deep tourney runs most years.
-Get to final fours “regularly”. RMK went to what, 5? In 30 or so years. So maybe 1 every 5 years or so.
-Win titles “occasionally”. Using RMK, 3 in 30 years. So one a decade or so.
Mainly just compete for B10 regular season title most years. If he can get to that, and is good at having them ready to play in March, the post season expectations should take care of themselves.
I didn’t expect them to happen immediately when Archie was hired...
If/when Archie leaves, I likely won’t expect it to come immediately for the next coach no.
I will continue to watch the games and hope for a return to elite status. And I’ll try like hell to also enjoy the team. And when I see improvements I’ll let them buoy optimism. And since I don’t make the hiring/firing decisions, I try to not let the negatives ruin my enjoyment of Indiana basketball. Something that’s been a big part of my life. I think I did too much Of that during the Crean years. I never accepted him, even in 11-13. Maybe I’m learning from that and being too optimistic with Archie? But I do know I’m more optimistic about the long term path of IU basketball than I have been in a couple decades.
What excuses? Just listing specific counterpoints to some of your concerns. Not sure you’ve done that much with me, or others. Other than 4-11 against top half of B10...9 of which were solid NCAA tourney teams. Excuse? Or maybe a bit of nuance that should be considered...as not all 4-11s against top halves of conferences are created equal.
Not sure what I’ve typed is in any way equivalent to how you’ve interacted with many on this board. I’m pretty careful to say words like “seems” because I obviously don’t know you or what your knowledge and experiences are. You’re much more absolute with your proclamations about others...that you can’t have any way of knowing.
Anyway. Yet again. I’ve made my expectations clear a few times. Here they are again. They haven’t changed since I started following IU basketball 34-35 years ago. It’s caused me A LOT of frustration and stress because they haven’t met them since RMKs 94 team.
-Compete for Big Ten title most years
-Recruit enough elite level kids to have a shot at deep tourney runs most years.
-Get to final fours “regularly”. RMK went to what, 5? In 30 or so years. So maybe 1 every 5 years or so.
-Win titles “occasionally”. Using RMK, 3 in 30 years. So one a decade or so.
Mainly just compete for B10 regular season title most years. If he can get to that, and is good at having them ready to play in March, the post season expectations should take care of themselves.
I didn’t expect them to happen immediately when Archie was hired...
If/when Archie leaves, I likely won’t expect it to come immediately for the next coach no.
I will continue to watch the games and hope for a return to elite status. And I’ll try like hell to also enjoy the team. And when I see improvements I’ll let them buoy optimism. And since I don’t make the hiring/firing decisions, I try to not let the negatives ruin my enjoyment of Indiana basketball. Something that’s been a big part of my life. I think I did too much Of that during the Crean years. I never accepted him, even in 11-13. Maybe I’m learning from that and being too optimistic with Archie? But I do know I’m more optimistic about the long term path of IU basketball than I have been in a couple decades.[/QUOTE]
No problem agreeing to disagree here. You can be hopeful and wishful in your assessments and I’ll rely much more on the evidence at hand and the results we’ve seen to date. Should be interesting going forward.
No problem agreeing to disagree here. You can be hopeful and wishful in your assessments and I’ll rely much more on the evidence at hand and the results we’ve seen to date. Should be interesting going forward.[/QUOTE]
Look for the good stuff. You’ll enjoy it more no matter how good we are. There’s plenty to find.
VanPastorMan
Hall of Famer
In Big Dog Robinson's last year I think they made it to the elite 8 but got beat by Duke.
Ivey is the best senior in the state. Was ineligible because he went to prep school.
Each season is better and better statistically, but by the eye test the teams are getting better as well. Do I get frustrated, absolutely, but that frustration seems to be with the individual actions of this senior class. The underclassman dont bother me as much and they progressed game to game.
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