Killing the constitution with a thousand cuts

CO. Hoosier

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President Biden appointed Vice President Harris his voting rights czar. Among her duties is to shepherd the administration’s version of voting rights through congress Fair enough. Her duties will also include riding herd on those red states which are legislating about voting rights in ways she and Biden don’t agree with. Think about that for a second. Where in our constitutional system do Biden and Harris find any indication that this is appropriate for the office of president or vice president? Harris promises to work with community and other interest groups to carry out their views on voting rights. What’s she gonna do, organize a boycott like her boss instigated in Atlanta?

Biden and Harris claim to be all in on the democratic process. Yet they don’t trust the democratic process in red states. They aren’t talking about illegal state acts here. We have ample ways and means to ensure the constitutional right to vote through the courts. Instead they intend to use the White House to throw their weight around in targeted states only because of politics. This is dangerous stuff. It is s a threat to many principles of governance we should hold dear.
 
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MyTeamIsOnTheFloor

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President Biden appointed Vice President Harris his voting rights czar. Among her duties is to shepherd the administration’s version of voting rights through congress Fair enough. Her duties will also include riding herd on those red states which are legislating about voting rights in ways she and Biden don’t agree with. Think about that for a second. Where in our constitutional system do Biden and Harris find any indication that this is appropriate for the office of president or vice president? Harris promises to work with community and other interest groups to carry out their views on voting rights. What’s she gonna do, organize a boycott like her boss instigated in Atlanta?

Biden and Harris claim to be all in on the democratic process. Yet they don’t trust the democratic process in red states. They aren’t talking about illegal state acts here. We have ample ways and means to ensure the constitutional right to vote through the courts. Instead they intend to use the White House to throw their weight around in targeted states only because of politics. This is dangerous stuff. It is s a threat to many principles of governance we should hold dear.

Power corrupts.

Even Lincoln did things he admitted were doubtful. Wilson arrested people who opposed his war policies. FDR put people in concentration camps. IKE, on the cusp of the Cold War, sold an anti-military-readiness. Nixon issued wage/price freezes.

But this bunch is abuse-of-power on steroids. I never assume this bunch believes the power of the federal government or a President should be limited in ANY way. The Lefty Left is on a path to a beneviolent dictatorship ASAP. And democracy as we have known it is a hindrance to their goals, so they have already intentionally destroyed faith in the electoral process as a way of eliminating it. (Remember when Obama and the DNC fed CNN a question for the Trump/Clinton debate - asking Trump if he would abide by the results of the election, then spent the next 4 years claiming Russian bots and Facebook posts wrongfully “influenced” the result? They’ve been working this for over a decade already.)

Leading a fight against election abuses of the GOP is just the latest Big Lie for the Manipulable Propaganda Recipients. These are people who see thier riots as pure and worthy, but see opposing dissent, even questions, and certainly the opposing legislative agenda - as treason. They hold NOTHING “dear” but their exercise of power.
 

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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President Biden appointed Vice President Harris his voting rights czar. Among her duties is to shepherd the administration’s version of voting rights through congress Fair enough. Her duties will also include riding herd on those red states which are legislating about voting rights in ways she and Biden don’t agree with. Think about that for a second. Where in our constitutional system do Biden and Harris find any indication that this is appropriate for the office of president or vice president? Harris promises to work with community and other interest groups to carry out their views on voting rights. What’s she gonna do, organize a boycott like her boss instigated in Atlanta?

Biden and Harris claim to be all in on the democratic process. Yet they don’t trust the democratic process in red states. They aren’t talking about illegal state acts here. We have ample ways and means to ensure the constitutional right to vote through the courts. Instead they intend to use the White House to throw their weight around in targeted states only because of politics. This is dangerous stuff. It is s a threat to many principles of governance we should hold dear.
Are the courts powerless to prevent the White House from overstepping its authority?
 
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mushroomgod_1

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Power corrupts.

Even Lincoln did things he admitted were doubtful. Wilson arrested people who opposed his war policies. FDR put people in concentration camps. IKE, on the cusp of the Cold War, sold an anti-military-readiness. Nixon issued wage/price freezes.

But this bunch is abuse-of-power on steroids. I never assume this bunch believes the power of the federal government or a President should be limited in ANY way. The Lefty Left is on a path to a beneviolent dictatorship ASAP. And democracy as we have known it is a hindrance to their goals, so they have already intentionally destroyed faith in the electoral process as a way of eliminating it. (Remember when Obama and the DNC fed CNN a question for the Trump/Clinton debate - asking Trump if he would abide by the results of the election, then spent the next 4 years claiming Russian bots and Facebook posts wrongfully “influenced” the result? They’ve been working this for over a decade already.)

Leading a fight against election abuses of the GOP is just the latest Big Lie for the Manipulable Propaganda Recipients. These are people who see thier riots as pure and worthy, but see opposing dissent, even questions, and certainly the opposing legislative agenda - as treason. They hold NOTHING “dear” but their exercise of power.

They were corrupt before they got power. In their case, the desire for power was enough to corrupt.
 
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CO. Hoosier

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So the red state legislatures are using chainsaws, and we need not fear them, but Biden is craftily using pin pricks, so watch out. Got it.
Pay attention goat. I already said that the courts are ready and able to address unconstitutional voting laws. That isn’t Biden’s concern. The Dems and Biden are pissed because things like ID laws are constitutional. Biden is using the White House to campaign against red state constitutional and democratic processes.
 

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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Pay attention goat. I already said that the courts are ready and able to address unconstitutional voting laws. That isn’t Biden’s concern. The Dems and Biden are pissed because things like ID laws are constitutional. Biden is using the White House to campaign against red state constitutional and democratic processes.
Honestly it just sounds like you're still pissed Biden won. None of what you typed in this thread remotely sounds like anything to worry about, especially not in the hyperbolic way you are worrying.
 

CO. Hoosier

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Honestly it just sounds like you're still pissed Biden won. None of what you typed in this thread remotely sounds like anything to worry about, especially not in the hyperbolic way you are worrying.
I wasn’t as pissed at him winning as I am about his governance. I expected a mindless robotic president. He’s worse.
Do you have anything important to say about Biden’s view of how to deal with state voting laws? Not a biggie, but it is a disturbing view in how Biden sees the role of the president.
 

hoot1

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If the Constitution was considered perfect as originally written our founders wouldn't have allowed for amendments. Consistent with this, several constitutional amendments (the Fifteenth, Nineteenth, and Twenty-sixth specifically) require that voting rights of U.S. citizens cannot be abridged on account of race, color, previous condition of servitude, sex, or age (18 and older); the constitution as originally written did not establish any such rights.

However, when it comes to voting the founders gave states the privilege of deciding who can vote along with establishing all the rules surrounding voting.

In my view, state policies accept voting as a "privilege" more than as a "right": . This is obvious to me, when I see cases of permanent disenfranchisement of citizens with felony convictions, superfluous voter identification requirements and complex voter registration laws.

Biden and some Congressional Democrats want to take us in the direction of uniform election laws by ending patch-work election rules and regulations which vary from state to state. They argue the current situation disenfranchises millions of voters countrywide. This includes those who have committed a felony in the past, don't possess government issued identification, or lack a fixed residence. More broadly many people lose their right due to our states and localities trying to run elections on the cheap. On the cheap means fewer polling places and inconvenient times to vote along with not wanting to hire additional election personnel to deal with mail in voting.
 
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Stuffshot

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They were corrupt before they got power. In their case, the desire for power was enough to corrupt.
It should not be overlooked that all these election law changes were not even proposed until after (1) Trump lost the Presdential election, and (2) Trump and Minions claimed so loudly there had been fraud that it became one of the GOP's most important campaign points.

It is ludicrous to claim all these Republican state officials are only concerned about election security. Voter turnout in many primaries often dipped to 15-20 % in the past, showing how little the voters really cared about elections in normal times. Voting procedures haven't really changed in years, except for a gradual increase in mail-in voting.

This shouldn't be surprising -- US citizens simply don't want to wait in line for anything (banks, groceries, airports etc.). These new GOP voter restrictions could backfire on the GOP, because Republicans don' want to wait in line to vote any more than the Democrats.
 

CO. Hoosier

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If the Constitution was considered perfect as originally written our founders wouldn't have allowed for amendments. Consistent with this, several constitutional amendments (the Fifteenth, Nineteenth, and Twenty-sixth specifically) require that voting rights of U.S. citizens cannot be abridged on account of race, color, previous condition of servitude, sex, or age (18 and older); the constitution as originally written did not establish any such rights.

However, when it comes to voting the founders gave states the privilege of deciding who can vote along with establishing all the rules surrounding voting.

In my view, state policies accept voting as a "privilege" more than as a "right": . This is obvious to me, when I see cases of permanent disenfranchisement of citizens with felony convictions, superfluous voter identification requirements and complex voter registration laws.

Biden and some Congressional Democrats want to take us in the direction of uniform election laws by ending patch-work election rules and regulations which vary from state to state. They argue the current situation disenfranchises millions of voters countrywide. This includes those who have committed a felony in the past, don't possess government issued identification, or lack a fixed residence. More broadly many people lose their right due to our states and localities trying to run elections on the cheap. On the cheap means fewer polling places and inconvenient times to vote along with not wanting to hire additional election personnel to deal with mail in voting.
There are no complicated registration laws. What are you talking about hoot? And why do you view voter I D as superfluous ? What’s the point of national uniformity? There are no national elections. These are all state and local.
 

Stuffshot

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If the Constitution was considered perfect as originally written our founders wouldn't have allowed for amendments. Consistent with this, several constitutional amendments (the Fifteenth, Nineteenth, and Twenty-sixth specifically) require that voting rights of U.S. citizens cannot be abridged on account of race, color, previous condition of servitude, sex, or age (18 and older); the constitution as originally written did not establish any such rights.

However, when it comes to voting the founders gave states the privilege of deciding who can vote along with establishing all the rules surrounding voting.

In my view, state policies accept voting as a "privilege" more than as a "right": . This is obvious to me, when I see cases of permanent disenfranchisement of citizens with felony convictions, superfluous voter identification requirements and complex voter registration laws.

Biden and some Congressional Democrats want to take us in the direction of uniform election laws by ending patch-work election rules and regulations which vary from state to state. They argue the current situation disenfranchises millions of voters countrywide. This includes those who have committed a felony in the past, don't possess government issued identification, or lack a fixed residence. More broadly many people lose their right due to our states and localities trying to run elections on the cheap. On the cheap means fewer polling places and inconvenient times to vote along with not wanting to hire additional election personnel to deal with mail in voting.
And, running elections on the cheap will cause more problems where officials insist on a signature verification rule.

What are they going to do, hire handwriting experts? No, of course not. That would cost too much. They'll just rely on speedily-trained volunteers, which will lead to more controversy as the volunteers screw up.
 

IUCrazy2

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Honestly it just sounds like you're still pissed Biden won. None of what you typed in this thread remotely sounds like anything to worry about, especially not in the hyperbolic way you are worrying.
But asking people for ID to vote is something to worry about when you literally need a picture ID to do a myriad of things in this country. Gotcha.
 

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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I wasn’t as pissed at him winning as I am about his governance. I expected a mindless robotic president. He’s worse.
Do you have anything important to say about Biden’s view of how to deal with state voting laws? Not a biggie, but it is a disturbing view in how Biden sees the role of the president.
Important? Sure. Calling it "killing the constitution" is absurd.
 

CO. Hoosier

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Important? Sure. Calling it "killing the constitution" is absurd.
The constitution gives us a president who is intended to be the chief executive officer of the executive branch and CIC of the military. We have been on track for a substantially different POTUS for decades. Biden accelerates that by making a specific Presidential effort to influence state government. That is why I couched this killing in terms of one of a thousand cuts. The constitution is weaker with Biden in charge.
 

T.M.P.

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The constitution gives us a president who is intended to be the chief executive officer of the executive branch and CIC of the military. We have been on track for a substantially different POTUS for decades. Biden accelerates that by making a specific Presidential effort to influence state government. That is why I couched this killing in terms of one of a thousand cuts. The constitution is weaker with Biden in charge.
*eyeroll*
 

hoot1

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There are no complicated registration laws. What are you talking about hoot? And why do you view voter I D as superfluous ? What’s the point of national uniformity? There are no national elections. These are all state and local.
The term i used to describe registration laws was "complex" not "complicated". Simple registration would be applying on line with few question. Same day registration is also less troublesome than say a thirty day requirement. Complex would be having to find an authorized registrar and filling out a long form of questions along with remembering to register well ahead of voting..

Superfluous IDs would be requiring several documents to prove your identity and address.
 

CO. Hoosier

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The term i used to describe registration laws was "complex" not "complicated". Simple registration would be applying on line with few question. Same day registration is also less troublesome than say a thirty day requirement. Complex would be having to find an authorized registrar and filling out a long form of questions along with remembering to register well ahead of voting..

Superfluous IDs would be requiring several documents to prove your identity and address.
what is your proposal for weeding out those not eligible to vote, such as non-residents, non-citizens, or those voting for a dead person.
 

hoot1

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what is your proposal for weeding out those not eligible to vote, such as non-residents, non-citizens, or those voting for a dead person.
CoH, you are assuming that making it easier to register and vote will result in those not eligible to vote will vote.

You may be right, but we will not know until we try making registering and voting both easier and country wide.

Like any proposal once put into law, we can always alter it if it doesn't pan out.

The biggest problem is whether the Biden proposal can pass constitutional muster if passed by Congress. CoH, isn't this what you were thinking when starting this thread ?
 
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UncleMark

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CoH, you are assuming that making it easier to register and vote will result in those not eligible to vote will vote.

You may be right, but we will not know until we try making registering and voting both easier and country wide.

Like any proposal once put into law, we can always alter it if it doesn't pan out.
We already did make it easier to register and vote -- in last year's election. It went famously. No rampant fraud. No widespread ineligible voting. That's according to all the involved Republican officials, up to and including the AG.

What they're trying to do now is make it harder to register and vote. Because that's in their political best interests. He knows that and you know that. There's no sense in even engaging his bad faith rationalizations and justifications for measures intended to suppress the vote under the guise of "election integrity". Our elections are fine. There's nothing to fix.
 

hoot1

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We already did make it easier to register and vote -- in last year's election. It went famously. No rampant fraud. No widespread ineligible voting. That's according to all the involved Republican officials, up to and including the AG.

What they're trying to do now is make it harder to register and vote. Because that's in their political best interests. He knows that and you know that. There's no sense in even engaging his bad faith rationalizations and justifications for measures intended to suppress the vote under the guise of "election integrity". Our elections are fine. There's nothing to fix.
I gave this post a "like" but still sorta agree with CoH's constitutional concerns.

Not being a constitutional scholar, I am already over my head. Only wish our voting rules were nation wide just as I am in favor of a national ID and universal DNA pool.
 
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mcmurtry66

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I gave this post a "like" but still sorta agree with CoH's constitutional concerns.

Not being a constitutional scholar, I am already over my head. Only wish our voting rules were nation wide just as I am in favor of a national ID and universal DNA pool.
Maybe there should be independent organizations created/charged with overseeing elections. Maybe post election audits should be standard again administered by independent groups. Routinize this stuff a bit to remove even the hint of impropriety for the benefit of voters and both parties
 

CO. Hoosier

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The biggest problem is whether the Biden proposal can pass constitutional muster if passed by Congress. CoH, isn't this what you were thinking when starting this thread ?
No. My point of this thread that the belief that the president and Vice President think they should look over the shoulder of state governments is new and is so subtle that it’s dangerous. To put it bluntly, who in the f*ck do they think they are? Under our system, the constitution is the limit and that is for the court to apply . The White House is not an enforcement agency and is out of the loop.
 

TommyCracker

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No. My point of this thread that the belief that the president and Vice President think they should look over the shoulder of state governments is new and is so subtle that it’s dangerous. To put it bluntly, who in the f*ck do they think they are? Under our system, the constitution is the limit and that is for the court to apply . The White House is not an enforcement agency and is out of the loop.

Yeah, it is and we warned you about those tactics four years ago when Trump was meddling with and trying to intimidate congress, state governors and legislatures, impeachment witnesses and even the supreme court.

You said nothing then that I remember.

The executive branch has too much power thanks to the last two pub Presidents (Bush with the war powers act and Trump with him thinking he could be a Mafia boss president).


Do you think Biden is going to be able to influence a republican state legislature?

Nope.

He can help shine a light on the anti-democratic con those republican states are trying to get away with in these big city targeted election squeezes in the hopes to shave voting points from those areas.

I mean things like restricting how many people can be in a carpool, reducing polling hours, pushing Sunday start out to 1pm, to downright giving the state the power to overturn the popular vote if they don't like the result are, ah-hem, definitely all obvious measures to make our elections more trustworthy. Amiright?

Maybe he can help fire up voters to make a change, to ensure we know the names of the legislators so they can't pass these things in normal anonymity or at least inform using one of the largest bully pulpits we have.

The attack on voting rights is a huge deal, one that many dems are wanting to play power politics and take out the filibuster for.

I hope it doesn't come to that but McConnell just a few days ago said his only goal is to block everything until the midterms since we can't get to 60%, the filibuster gives him that power.

Obviously be careful what we ask for which is why I hope it doesn't come to that, but something has got to give.
 
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MyTeamIsOnTheFloor

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Because no one is trying to prevent you from voting.

Just because that is your experience doesn't make it so for everyone.
4 precincts
1 school gym

Gotta show ID

just a regular day with one more chore

it ain’t like they tell you about the election the day before it happens

if you care - you can get there

not my fault the cheaters take busses to nursing homes at 5:00 pm trying to stuff the ballot with people who haven’t voted in years, don’t care, and are maybe being coerced by a helpful vote whore organization
 
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NPT

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Pay attention goat. I already said that the courts are ready and able to address unconstitutional voting laws. That isn’t Biden’s concern. The Dems and Biden are pissed because things like ID laws are constitutional. Biden is using the White House to campaign against red state constitutional and democratic processes.
If you read this article you'll see that the US is an outlier as far as voting laws.