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Kaufman.

Teams I’m worried about, in order:

1. Virginia - Bennett is a great coach and has had success with Indiana kids in the past.

2. UNC - can never count them out. It’d be alluring for any kid.

3. Purdue - Im not worried much about them. Southern Indiana kids go there almost never.

4. Indiana State - feels like an inclusion out of respect. Although if he doesn’t pick IU I’d be the happiest about him going here.
 
Teams I’m worried about, in order:

1. Virginia - Bennett is a great coach and has had success with Indiana kids in the past.

2. UNC - can never count them out. It’d be alluring for any kid.

3. Purdue - Im not worried much about them. Southern Indiana kids go there almost never.

4. Indiana State - feels like an inclusion out of respect. Although if he doesn’t pick IU I’d be the happiest about him going here.

Regarding UVA: success with IN kids or kid? Anyone besides Guy?
 
His results at IU after 3 years have been, at best, mediocre. And I bet that even he would admit that, at least in private...to a friend. He may not put it exactly that way -- he may say that he's "not satisfied" or "committed to doing better". But those are just more forgiving ways of saying the same thing. Heck, he even (finally) made some comments at Huber's last year that indicated he was aware that the results had been unsatisfactory.

I'm sure he and his defenders would say that it's mostly because the cupboard Crean left him was bare. And it's not that there isn't some truth to that. But, at the end of the day, it's still just an excuse. And, just like most successful coaches don't abide excuses from their players, neither should anybody else abide excuses from coaches.

Moreover, it doesn't explain some of the things that have dogged his tenure here -- continuing to attempt a lot of 3s despite consistently poor conversion, failing to find some roster additions to improve that, guys getting playing time despite reports of being disruptive and not fully bought in, etc.

Financial considerations aside, if I were the AD I'd have cut him loose after last season. But, of course, no AD can actually put financial considerations aside...particularly in the devastating wake of Covid. And it's ridiculously easy and pain-free for fans and boosters to say they should.

Our program deserves better than it's gotten -- not just what it got from Crean, but also what it's gotten thus far from Archie. But here's to hoping we finally break through this year. Hope springs eternal....it has to around these parts.
Nice to see a few folks here that actually see things for what they really are! I agree with your entire statement. For some reason we have so many that defend our coaches even when they are under performing. These same people did it with Crean and now with Miller. I don't think they are even aware of it. If Miller is gone in a couple years and we have a new coach these same people will be talking about how they would have fired Miller after season 2 or someone along those lines. I appreciate your honesty and viewpoint.
 
When we go to Indiana from Pennsylvania we go around Ft Wayne on 469. There are a ton of billboards for an injury lawyer they call,"The Hammer". It's not RT Green is it?
The hammer is a nation wide lawyer, saw his ad in Louisiana and texas
 
The Kaufman kid seems very bright and is perfectly sized for the pro game. He would do wonders for IU around a PG and true post players as a slasher and outside scorer. Unfortunately he reminds me a bit Malcolm Brogden. Hope he picks IU though.
 
Nice to see a few folks here that actually see things for what they really are! I agree with your entire statement. For some reason we have so many that defend our coaches even when they are under performing. These same people did it with Crean and now with Miller. I don't think they are even aware of it. If Miller is gone in a couple years and we have a new coach these same people will be talking about how they would have fired Miller after season 2 or someone along those lines. I appreciate your honesty and viewpoint.
You won’t have to worry about Archie getting fired in a couple years because Archie will be here for a long time and we will be just fine. And I suppose you would have fired Tony Bennett when his first 3 years at UVA were as follows 15-16 year 1, 16-15 year 2. And 22-10 year 3. Seems eerily similar to Archie’s number here. If people would have patience and let Archie build his teams we will be very good soon.
 
You won’t have to worry about Archie getting fired in a couple years because Archie will be here for a long time and we will be just fine. And I suppose you would have fired Tony Bennett when his first 3 years at UVA were as follows 15-16 year 1, 16-15 year 2. And 22-10 year 3. Seems eerily similar to Archie’s number here. If people would have patience and let Archie build his teams we will be very good soon.
I agree that Miller will still be here in a couple of years because I think the results so far, and likely going forward, are good enough for most people. But the comparison to Tony Bennett is totally without merit.
 
I agree that Miller will still be here in a couple of years because I think the results so far, and likely going forward, are good enough for most people. But the comparison to Tony Bennett is totally without merit.
I’m not sure about that. Bennett had 1 sweet 16 before he went to Virginia. They play system ball. Both use the packline defense.(Bennett for obvious reasons). The rest of Archies story is yet to unfold.
 
I’m not sure about that. Bennett had 1 sweet 16 before he went to Virginia. They play system ball. Both use the packline defense.(Bennett for obvious reasons). The rest of Archies story is yet to unfold.
Maybe there’s more to Miller, but he hasn’t achieved nor is he regarded at a level that’s even close to Bennett. Three years and still below .500 in the Big 10 is an inconvenient truth.
 
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The Kaufman kid seems very bright and is perfectly sized for the pro game. He would do wonders for IU around a PG and true post players as a slasher and outside scorer. Unfortunately he reminds me a bit Malcolm Brogden. Hope he picks IU though.
Brogdon in what way? Brogdon is a PG?
 
Maybe there’s more to Miller, but he hasn’t achieved nor is he regarded at a level that’s even close to Bennett. Three years and still below .500 in the Big 10 is an inconvenient truth.
He hasn’t coached as long. Bennett up until his 4th hadn’t done what Archie had either. You saying he isn’t as regarded is a no brainer. He simply hasn’t had as many years or experience. You could also say up until Bennett’s third year at Virginia Archie had the better resume.
 
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I agree that Miller will still be here in a couple of years because I think the results so far, and likely going forward, are good enough for most people. But the comparison to Tony Bennett is totally without merit.
Yes you are right, Tony Bennett didn’t get to the Elite 8 until his 10th year coaching and his 7th with Virginia. Archie made it to The Elite 8 in his 3rd coaching season and his 3rd at Dayton. So yes maybe because Tony is 10 years older than Archie. Let’s see where Archie is when you give him 7 years at IU. I think this year we can compete with anyone and I feel Archie is building a foundation that will make us good for a long time in a similar trajectory as Tony B. Hey think Archie will have a lot of success here at IU and it was Bennett’s 4th year they won the ACC and went to the sweet 16 and were 30-7. It took 7 years for him to get to elite 8 and 10 to win it all. I would like to think we are in a similar rise. So you are right to not compare them because personally I am going to wait to see what Archie does in the next 10 years and then I guess I can compare. But personally I believe Archie will make IU a NC contender almost every year. So are you saying Bennett is out of Archies league I believe that’s not accurate. There is merit to my comparison I am believing Archie will have a similar if not better resume in 10 years when he will be TBs age. You may not think there is merit but I do.
 
He hasn’t coached as long. Bennett up until his 4th hadn’t done what Archie had either. You saying he isn’t as regarded is a no brainer. He simply hasn’t had as many years or experience. You could also say up until Bennett’s third year at Virginia Archie had the better resume.
Bennett’s time at Wazzu has been more impressive than Miller.
 
Yes you are right, Tony Bennett didn’t get to the Elite 8 until his 10th year coaching and his 7th with Virginia. Archie made it to The Elite 8 in his 3rd coaching season and his 3rd at Dayton. So yes maybe because Tony is 10 years older than Archie. Let’s see where Archie is when you give him 7 years at IU. I think this year we can compete with anyone and I feel Archie is building a foundation that will make us good for a long time in a similar trajectory as Tony B. Hey think Archie will have a lot of success here at IU and it was Bennett’s 4th year they won the ACC and went to the sweet 16 and were 30-7. It took 7 years for him to get to elite 8 and 10 to win it all. I would like to think we are in a similar rise. So you are right to not compare them because personally I am going to wait to see what Archie does in the next 10 years and then I guess I can compare. But personally I believe Archie will make IU a NC contender almost every year. So are you saying Bennett is out of Archies league I believe that’s not accurate. There is merit to my comparison I am believing Archie will have a similar if not better resume in 10 years when he will be TBs age. You may not think there is merit but I do.
And this is where we disagree. I see nothing that suggests IU is on that sort of trajectory or that Miller is building that sort of a program. When we get into the top half of the Big 10, which they might be able to do this year, when were over .500 in the conference, and when we’re a perennial NCAA tournament team, then there will be evidence that this is headed in a consistently upward direction. Until then, I think it’s wishful. But I do think he’ll be at IU at least through five years, if only because most IU fans today are okay with where the program is. No real problem with that, by the way. It’s a rent free culture now, full of people who never attended IU (if you don’t know the difference between “their”, “there“ and “they’re“, you’re pretending).
 
Bennett’s time at Wazzu has been more impressive than Miller.
No it wasn’t. 3 years and a sweet 16 and no conference titles. Bennett best work was 4-5 years in at Virginia which is impressive. He left WSU because his trajectory was going down. He saw what was coming and got out. Recruiting was flat and he knew the PAC 12 was getting tougher.
 
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No it wasn’t. 3 years and a sweet 16 and no conference titles. Bennett best work was 4-5 years in at Virginia which is impressive. He left WSU because his trajectory was going down. He saw what was coming and got out. Recruiting was flat and he knew the PAC 12 was getting tougher.
That’s not why he left WSU. Not even close. If you’ve ever been to Pullman, you know it’s the end of the earth, with no recruiting base, long road trips, and tepid support. UVA was a plum job at a superior University in the best basketball conference in America. (he rejected IU’s overtures). I sometimes forget how little our new fan base, who’ve never seen IU as an elite program, know about the sport.
 
And this is where we disagree. I see nothing that suggests IU is on that sort of trajectory or that Miller is building that sort of a program. When we get into the top half of the Big 10, which they might be able to do this year, when were over .500 in the conference, and when we’re a perennial NCAA tournament team, then there will be evidence that this is headed in a consistently upward direction. Until then, I think it’s wishful. But I do think he’ll be at IU at least through five years, if only because most IU fans today are okay with where the program is. No real problem with that, by the way. It’s a rent free culture now, full of people who never attended IU (if you don’t know the difference between “their”, “there“ and “they’re“, you’re pretending).

So you realize that at WSU that TB’s final year there his record was 17-16(overall) 8-10(conf) with a first round NIT exit. TB’s trajectory WAS going down at WSU. In Archies 3rd year at Dayton he was 26-11(overall) 10-6(conf) and an NCAAT elite 8 Run. TB goes to UVA after that 17-16 season and then TB’s first 3 years very similar to Archies. So here is the first 3 year comparison with TB and AM

TB (1st #’s) AM(2nd #’s)
Year 1=15-16(O)5-11(C). 16-15(O) 9-9(C)
YR2= 16-15(O)7-9(C). 19-16(O)12(C)NIT
Yr3=22-10(O)9-7(C) 20-12(O)9-11(C)
Lost in rd 64 in yr3. NCAAT team
But no NCAAT

Those seem pretty similar to me. So I guess I will agree to disagree with you. Let’s check back when Archie has been at IU for 10 years then we can actually have the records to prove it. I'm betting on Archie to achieve great things and evidently you do not. That’s why I like this forum to get others opinions and have a intelligent conversation.
 
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So you realize that at WSU that TB’s final year there his record was 17-16(overall) 8-10(conf) with a first round NIT exit. TB’s trajectory WAS going down at WSU. In Archies 3rd year at Dayton he was 26-11(overall) 10-6(conf) and an NCAAT elite 8 Run. TB goes to UVA after that 17-16 season and then TB’s first 3 years very similar to Archies. So here is the first 3 year comparison with TB and AM

TB (1st #’s) AM(2nd #’s)
Year 1=15-16(O)5-11(C). 16-15(O) 9-9(C)
YR2= 16-15(O)7-9(C). 19-16(O)12(C)NIT
Yr3=22-10(O)9-7(C) 20-12(O)9-11(C)
Lost in rd 64 in yr3. NCAAT team
But no NCAAT

Those seem pretty similar to me. So I guess I will agree to disagree with you. Let’s check back when Archie has been at IU for 10 years then we can actually have the records to prove it. I'm betting on Archie to achieve great things and evidently you do not. That’s why I like this forum to get others opinions and have a intelligent conversation.
So, Bennett had one bad year at WSU, while Miller has had three bad years at IU. But Bennett didn’t leave because of that one year That’s hardly comparable. Miller May yet achieve great things at IU, but we’ve seen nothing to suggest that will happen. But I think, if Miller continues with basically the same results, he’ll be at IU in 10 years, as that will be plenty good for most of the current generation of fans.
 
His results at IU after 3 years have been, at best, mediocre. And I bet that even he would admit that, at least in private...to a friend. He may not put it exactly that way -- he may say that he's "not satisfied" or "committed to doing better". But those are just more forgiving ways of saying the same thing. Heck, he even (finally) made some comments at Huber's last year that indicated he was aware that the results had been unsatisfactory.

I'm sure he and his defenders would say that it's mostly because the cupboard Crean left him was bare. And it's not that there isn't some truth to that. But, at the end of the day, it's still just an excuse. And, just like most successful coaches don't abide excuses from their players, neither should anybody else abide excuses from coaches.

Moreover, it doesn't explain some of the things that have dogged his tenure here -- continuing to attempt a lot of 3s despite consistently poor conversion, failing to find some roster additions to improve that, guys getting playing time despite reports of being disruptive and not fully bought in, etc.

Financial considerations aside, if I were the AD I'd have cut him loose after last season. But, of course, no AD can actually put financial considerations aside...particularly in the devastating wake of Covid. And it's ridiculously easy and pain-free for fans and boosters to say they should.

Our program deserves better than it's gotten -- not just what it got from Crean, but also what it's gotten thus far from Archie. But here's to hoping we finally break through this year. Hope springs eternal....it has to around these parts.
Thank GOD you’re not the AD...
 
So, Bennett had one bad year at WSU, while Miller has had three bad years at IU. Bit Bennett didn’t leave because of that one year That’s hardly comparable. Miller May yet achieve great things at IU, but we’ve seen nothing to suggest that will happen. But I think, if Miller continues with basically the same results, he’ll be at IU in 10 years, as that will be plenty good for most of the current generation of fans.

So I said I would agree to disagree, I pointed out that TB and AM have had similar first 3 years at their big jobs(UVA and IU). I am not satisfied or content with where we are at the first 3 years but that is what happens when you build a program. I am not one of the ones saying if we are not competing for BIG and National championships in 2 more years then yes I would not mind a coaching change. All I am saying is that I feel AM and TB had similar first 3years and I think Archie is as good of coach as TB at the same times in their careers. I never ever said if we have mediocre teams for 7 more years I would be happy with it. But I feel that will not happen. Archie is a good coach.
 
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Which of the one and done (or two and done) we've recruited in the last ten years + turned IU's Basketball fortunes around? Who cares where this kid goes? he not not a Messiah and even if he does go to UI, his participation will not turn the program into a Blue Blood again. Gordon, Langford, Zeller, Anunouby, Bryant, Vonleh .... all NBA players. I'm sooo tired of the tail wagging the dog. Just give me solid players who can learn and will stick around long enough to develop a team that can compete for a national title...or even a Big Ten title.
 
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Thank GOD you’re not the AD...
The results over 3 years have simply not warranted his being retained - unless we’re satisfied with being a bottom-half Big Ten team. I’m starting to wonder if that’s the case for a lot of people. Because next year.

But there’s always the money situation to consider. It would’ve been financially hard to fire him after last year with the buyout. But with the loss of revenues due to Covid, it would be impossible now. So we’re handcuffed to him whether anybody likes it or not.
 
That’s not why he left WSU. Not even close. If you’ve ever been to Pullman, you know it’s the end of the earth, with no recruiting base, long road trips, and tepid support. UVA was a plum job at a superior University in the best basketball conference in America. (he rejected IU’s overtures). I sometimes forget how little our new fan base, who’ve never seen IU as an elite program, know about the sport.
You assume to much. I was alive for all of Knights championships. My sister dated a player. Sheesh you like to argue for argument sake. I mean are you a fan? Of course UVA is a better job. He also rejected IU because of our athletic departments treatment of his sister.
 
You assume to much. I was alive for all of Knights championships. My sister dated a player. Sheesh you like to argue for argument sake. I mean are you a fan? Of course UVA is a better job. He also rejected IU because of our athletic departments treatment of his sister.
If you lived through all of Knight‘s championships, why do you exhibit so little knowledge of IU basketball?
 
Was only thinking about Guy. At the least kid. Dunno if he’s gotten anyone else. Big success with Guy, though, and recently.

I'm less concerned about him getting 1 kid, than if he has gotten several. You can always lose 1 kid to a program for whatever random reason... (kid really likes the coach, or campus, etc...), but if he's getting several, then to me there's more reason to worry. I would guess Covid is helping IU's chances here making it more difficult to visit and learn about the distant schools, while having been to IU numerous times and more likely in contact with our players.

I'm in ACC country and Guy was a great fit at UVA and pretty beloved there. That could work against us as he could be a good recruiter for Trey, but I don't think it shows a real record of getting IN kids to UVA.
 
I assume a better offer means better academics better climate etc. Surely it does not mean money, I don’t have to study, etc.
 
Better offers? No such thing. Can't really speak to the other campuses but none of them are Bloomington. Until players start getting paid for their time, nothing beats a Hoosier native son going to IU to play in AH.
Does better offers suggest $$$??? I hope the family is above that.
 
Brogdon in what way? Brogdon is a PG?

Demeanor. They both show maturity and humility and leadership and I see in Kaufman a young guy who knows he has to be more than a single threat to be a solid pro. Brogdon is also that way. Both are combos though not the same position. Brogdon has first step quickness and toughness when he drives, plus an outside shot. Kaufman has that range, has a quick step relative to his size, and finishes strong by getting his legs under him.
That's what I see. They are not the same size or speed. There certainly could be other comparisons. But if Kaufman turns into a big defensive wing his potential will be very high.
 
The results over 3 years have simply not warranted his being retained - unless we’re satisfied with being a bottom-half Big Ten team. I’m starting to wonder if that’s the case for a lot of people. Because next year.

But there’s always the money situation to consider. It would’ve been financially hard to fire him after last year with the buyout. But with the loss of revenues due to Covid, it would be impossible now. So we’re handcuffed to him whether anybody likes it or not.
If you fired a coach after 3 years that had improved the W-L totals each year and a coach who if the NCAAT had been played would have been playing in the Tournament then you wouldn’t be able to get any coach to come here. They would be afraid that if their teams improved and made the NCAAT they would get fired no one would accept that job. So you saying “you would have fired him after this year“ is not a way I would want to represent my Alma mater. I want a coach that has shown steady improvement and gets the IN guys. He has recruited 3 Mr. B-ball’s his 1st 3 years and you want to fire him. Wow! When we WILL BE IN THE top half of the BIG this year and competing for the title you would probably still want him fired. I don’t accept mediocrity either but I will give a coach a chance to build his team and not just fire after 3 years. Not one coach in America would come here if we would have fired Archie after this year.
 
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I don’t accept mediocrity either

Actually, I'd say you do. You just have yourself convinced that's not what you're doing.

There is absolutely no defense of Archie's tenure here on the merits. And, once again, I honestly think that even he would admit that behind closed doors. He came close to admitting it at Huber's -- and that was before last season's T-10 finish in the B10.

You can explain Archie's mediocre records, you can excuse them, you can justify them. But you can't deny them.
 
If you fired a coach after 3 years that had improved the W-L totals each year and a coach who if the NCAAT had been played would have been playing in the Tournament then you wouldn’t be able to get any coach to come here. They would be afraid that if their teams improved and made the NCAAT they would get fired no one would accept that job. So you saying “you would have fired him after this year“ is not a way I would want to represent my Alma mater. I want a coach that has shown steady improvement and gets the IN guys. He has recruited 3 Mr. B-ball’s his 1st 3 years and you want to fire him. Wow! When we WILL BE IN THE top half of the BIG this year and competing for the title you would probably still want him fired. I don’t accept mediocrity either but I will give a coach a chance to build his team and not just fire after 3 years. Not one coach in America would come here if we would have fired Archie after this year.
His three year Big 10 record is 26-32 (9-9, 8-12, 9-11). Further, while I hope we can finally get into the top half of the conference, what leads you to believe we’ll be competing for the title? This seems like the definition of mediocrity but many, including you, seem fine and even defensive of it.
 
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If you fired a coach after 3 years that had improved the W-L totals each year and a coach who if the NCAAT had been played would have been playing in the Tournament then you wouldn’t be able to get any coach to come here. They would be afraid that if their teams improved and made the NCAAT they would get fired no one would accept that job. So you saying “you would have fired him after this year“ is not a way I would want to represent my Alma mater. I want a coach that has shown steady improvement and gets the IN guys. He has recruited 3 Mr. B-ball’s his 1st 3 years and you want to fire him. Wow! When we WILL BE IN THE top half of the BIG this year and competing for the title you would probably still want him fired. I don’t accept mediocrity either but I will give a coach a chance to build his team and not just fire after 3 years. Not one coach in America would come here if we would have fired Archie after this year.

Also, keep in mind the precise words you're responding to. It's true that I said that I'd have fired him if I was the AD. And I would have. Honestly, I think most ADs at schools that have high expectations would've done so. You think Kentucky would've retained him with his records? You think they'd have assumed the fetal position in fear of having to hire a better coach after firing one in response to a tepid 3 year run?

But the precise words you're objecting to in that last post is my contention that the results themselves -- ie, absent other considerations (e.g., money, what it communicates to other prospective coaches) -- did not warrant retaining him.

I don't think anybody could object to that -- even if you think, as most here do, that it was the correct decision not to fire him. The results have been, at best, middling -- and, really, that's being generous.

For me, I think the single biggest obstacle our program has is this culturally deep-seated aversion to taking bold and decisive moves. We'd never have fired Matt Doherty or Billy Gillispie when UNC and UK did. And that's why those programs are where they are and we're where we are....cowering about the hidden dangers of having high expectations.
 
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