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Kaufman.

fkfootball

All-American
Apr 28, 2014
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Keep in mind this is hear-say. I live in his area. I’ve talked to some people that know him pretty well. Most people have told me that he is all about IU but his mom has pushed to hold him off because she wants him to get better offers. This is what I’ve heard many times in regards to IU the past several years. Romeo. Brooks. IUs lack of success hasn’t really effected what kids think of IU because it’s all about friendships, coaching philosophy, campus life. It seems more and more that it’s the parents that have trouble buying us. Especially in this State.
 
Most people have told me that he is all about IU but his mom has pushed to hold him off because she wants him to get better offers.

Better offers? No such thing. Can't really speak to the other campuses but none of them are Bloomington. Until players start getting paid for their time, nothing beats a Hoosier native son going to IU to play in AH.
 
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Better offers? No such thing. Can't really speak to the other campuses but none of them are Bloomington. Until players start getting paid for their time, nothing beats a Hoosier native son going to IU to play in AH.
Yes, we'd all like to believe that, but the reality is in terms of programs success and putting players in the NBA there is a whole tier of programs above us and it's just foolish not to recognize that. What's wrong with admitting we need to win more as a program to get back to where we should be? There was an article on the newstand a couple weeks ago that ranked the IU job as the best in the B10, and I agree with that. Time to start seeing results that reflect that, and when they do, we'll be back to kids (and their parents, family and coaches) desiring to play here.
 
Yes, we'd all like to believe that, but the reality is in terms of programs success and putting players in the NBA there is a whole tier of programs above us and it's just foolish not to recognize that. What's wrong with admitting we need to win more as a program to get back to where we should be? There was an article on the newstand a couple weeks ago that ranked the IU job as the best in the B10, and I agree with that. Time to start seeing results that reflect that, and when they do, we'll be back to kids (and their parents, family and coaches) desiring to play here.
There has always been a tier above us when it came to putting players in the NBA, even when we were at the pinnacle of team success. Is Isiah still our only NBA all-star? Our past success was a result of knowing how to put a team together to beat teams that were more talented.
 
Better offers? No such thing. Can't really speak to the other campuses but none of them are Bloomington. Until players start getting paid for their time, nothing beats a Hoosier native son going to IU to play in AH.
I'd agree, unless they're actually searching for $$$. Jarod Jeffries, Sean May, Montross ... Kaufman is not even in the same league. Really, does he want to go to UNC, UK etc and ride the bench for 3 years? Here he could get PT
 
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Yes, we'd all like to believe that, but the reality is in terms of programs success and putting players in the NBA there is a whole tier of programs above us and it's just foolish not to recognize that. What's wrong with admitting we need to win more as a program to get back to where we should be? There was an article on the newstand a couple weeks ago that ranked the IU job as the best in the B10, and I agree with that. Time to start seeing results that reflect that, and when they do, we'll be back to kids (and their parents, family and coaches) desiring to play here.

Non-sequitur, and really not germane. If Trey or anyone else is good enough to play in the NBA, IU and any number of other Schools are more than sufficient to showcase his/their talent. Obviously a number of other Programs have had more success of late than IU, but it's not like scouts and GMs attach a premium to being and recruiting a Jayhawk, Tar Heel or what have you, or that someone's Team made the FF.

IU hasn't sent a lot of Players up of late for the simple reason that its recruiting (and coaching until recently) of late hasn't been as elite as other programs. What's "foolish" is to imagine that some collegiate pedigree, brief or otherwise, can in anyway compensate for not having the ability/skills to compete at the next level. You can try the narrative that some coaches are better qualified to prep Players for that leap, but I'd take Coach Miller against any of them and rate the B10 as the toughest Conference top to bottom in the country. Add to that the IU Campus, AH and the Cream and Crimson fervor for its cagers (especially the homegrown ones) - really not much to suggest that there's any better place he could go.
 
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Cody makes 13million per year..
I doubt Kaufman ever see's a contract like that .
Better offer's ?..Parents are delusional ~
 
Non-sequituir, and really not germane. If Trey or anyone else is good enough to play in the NBA, IU and any number of other Schools are more than sufficient to showcase his/their talent. Obviously a number of other Programs have had more success of late than IU, but it's not like scouts and GMs attach a premium to being and recruiting a Jayhawk, Tar Heel or what have you, or that someone's Team made the FF.

IU hasn't sent a lot of Players up of late for the simple reason that its recruiting (and coaching until recently) of late hasn't been as elite as other programs. What's "foolish" is to imagine that some collegiate pedigree, brief or otherwise, can in anyway compensate for not having the ability/skills to compete at the next level. You can try the narrative that some coaches are better qualified to prep Players for that leap, but I'd take Coach Miller against any of them and rate the B10 as the toughest Conference top to bottom in the country. Add to that the IU Campus, AH and the Cream and Crimson fervor for its cagers (especially the homegrown ones) - really not much to suggest that there's any better place he could go.

Well, what you "think" would only be germane if you, or your son, were 4 or 5 * recruits... then your love for IU would translate to recruiting success. But the fact of the matter is that almost every top 500 or so recruit in the country has hopes and aspirations of playing in the NBA. Notice the correlation between the top recruiting schools and their conference and national success? Yes, there are flashes in the pan like an LSU or Memphis, but long term recruiting success is built on national and program success. To get past the trend the OP is noticing, all we really have to do is win.

And, again, I'd say you're just wrong: right now we probably have as many former Hoosiers in the NBA as at almost any time in our history: EG, TB, CZ, YF, VO, NV, JM, RL, OG and I may be missing someone. Not bad for the oncourt results we've had of late. If I were recruiting, it's what I'd be pointing to, while also citing why we are on our way back to conference and national relevance. But, the key is actually achieving that success. Then we'll have less resistance from parents/coaches and they'll more easily accept the interest their players have in IU. Just as we do with our kids, they're only trying to look out for the long term success of their kids and so they discount things like pretty campus, history, relationship with players, etc.... and want to see their kids at programs that are winning on the court AND putting players in the NBA.
 
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Well, what you "think" would only be germane if you, or your son, were 4 or 5 * recruits... then your love for IU would translate to recruiting success. But the fact of the matter is that almost every top 500 or so recruit in the country has hopes and aspirations of playing in the NBA. Notice the correlation between the top recruiting schools and their conference and national success? Yes, there are flashes in the pan like an LSU or Memphis, but long term recruiting success is built on national and program success. To get past the trend the OP is noticing, all we really have to do is win.

And, again, I'd say your just wrong: right now we probably have as many former Hoosiers in the NBA as at almost any time in our history. If I were recruiting, it's what I'd be pointing to, while also citing why we are on our way back to conference and national success. But, the key is actually achieving that success. Then we'll have less resistance from parents/coaches and they'll more easily accept the interest their players have in IU. Just as we do with our kids, they're only trying to look out for the long term success of their kids and so they discount things like pretty campus, history, relationship with players, etc.... and want to see their kids at programs that are winning on the court AND putting players in the NBA.

For all intents, and barring the luxury of hindsight, recruiting success is in point of fact defined by 4 and 5 star recruits, and why rating services generally don't rank recruits in retrospect, i.e., on the basis of their collegiate performance.

You should re-read my original response - it was specific to the contention that there might be "better offers" for TK and aspiring Hoosier cagers than from IU. At no point was there any suggestion that IU's performance of late qualifies them as a "better" program in terms of winning, but rather that IU is a better program and arguably the best program for TK and as good as many others for young NBA aspirants. Really no idea what exactly "you're wrong" refers to or why you feel compelled to lecture about so much that is obvious and pedestrian, but does seem disingenuous to cite IU's relative lack of NBA representation as a liability in your first response and and an asset in your second.

Really no question in my mind about if and why others are seduced by the allure of offers from out-of-state Schools, only whether those offers genuinely qualify as "better". I maintain that they are not. Do you imagine otherwise?
 
For all intents, and barring the luxury of hindsight, recruiting success is in point of fact defined by 4 and 5 star recruits, and why rating services generally don't rank recruits in retrospect, i.e., on the basis of their collegiate performance.

You should re-read my original response - it was specific to the contention that there might be "better offers" for TK and aspiring Hoosier cagers than from IU. At no point was there any suggestion that IU's performance of late qualifies them as a "better" program in terms of winning, but rather that IU is a better program and arguably the best program for TK and as good as many others for young NBA aspirants. Really no idea what exactly "you're wrong" refers to or why you feel compelled to lecture about so much that is obvious and pedestrian, but does seem disingenuous to cite IU's relative lack of NBA representation as a liability in your first response and and an asset in your second.

Really no question in my mind about if and why others are seduced by the allure of offers from out-of-state Schools, only whether those offers genuinely qualify as "better". I maintain that they are not. Do you imagine otherwise?
Not that hard to understand: historically we've not been a hot bed of putting players in the NBA (as someone mentioned, Isiah and VO our only all-stars?), but at the moment we have a good # there compared to our relative lack of success. And while I'd agree, IU offers some great advantages to any alums, but especially those from IN, I do agree with the OP that there seems a hesitancy about IU from others in these recruits camps that I think would be minimized if we just win.

NBA Players by school
 
Not that hard to understand: historically we've not been a hot bed of putting players in the NBA (as someone mentioned, Isiah and VO our only all-stars?), but at the moment we have a good # there compared to our relative lack of success. And while I'd agree, IU offers some great advantages to any alums, but especially those from IN, I do agree with the OP that there seems a hesitancy about IU from others in these recruits camps that I think would be minimized if we just win.

NBA Players by school
last sentence says it all. Winning cures all ills. (trying to work in some snarky covid reference there, but long weekend and feels like a rainy monday so not on my A-game this morning)...but yes...winning- AND the perception of head coaching stability (let's be honest, that issue has been a problem at IU for the better part of the past 15 yrs and opposing programs have beat us over the head with it).
 
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There has always been a tier above us when it came to putting players in the NBA, even when we were at the pinnacle of team success. Is Isiah still our only NBA all-star? Our past success was a result of knowing how to put a team together to beat teams that were more talented.
IU NBA All Stars: Bellamy, McGinnis, both Van Arsdales, Isiah and Victor. Think that's it. BIg Mac was the ABA MVP in 74 also.
 
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Not that hard to understand: historically we've not been a hot bed of putting players in the NBA (as someone mentioned, Isiah and VO our only all-stars?), but at the moment we have a good # there compared to our relative lack of success. And while I'd agree, IU offers some great advantages to any alums, but especially those from IN, I do agree with the OP that there seems a hesitancy about IU from others in these recruits camps that I think would be minimized if we just win.

I never said otherwise, and you've yet to communicate anything I did that was "wrong" or "foolish" beyond your own misapprehension.

Geez. Most everyone understands why elite recruits became skittish about committing to IU, but with the sunshine salesman in the rear-view mirror and a ringer in his place, there's no longer any legitimate reason for the perception that IU isn't a premiere destination for recruits, and arguably the best destination for Hoosier natives. Just because parents and friends of recruits might imagine otherwise doesn't mean it is not true.
 
I never said otherwise, and you've yet to communicate anything I did that was "wrong" or "foolish" beyond your own misapprehension.

Geez. Most everyone understands why elite recruits became skittish about committing to IU, but with the sunshine salesman in the rear-view mirror and a ringer in his place, there's no longer any legitimate reason for the perception that IU isn't a premiere destination for recruits, and arguably the best destination for Hoosier natives. Just because parents and friends of recruits might imagine otherwise doesn't mean it is not true.
Ringer? That's yet to be determined.
 
I'm hoping CAM succeeds, because we'll all be less grumpy if it happens (well...most all of us). And agreed, CTC turned out to be our very own Capt Snake Oil. But CAM a 'ringer'??? Love the optimism, but considering IU hasn't seen an NCAA tourney game since getting steamrolled by UNC in 2016--4 1/2 yrs ago-- CAM has a lot to work to do, to prove himself worthy of such a lofty label.
 
I'm hoping CAM succeeds, because we'll all be less grumpy if it happens (well...most all of us). And agreed, CTC turned out to be our very own Capt Snake Oil. But CAM a 'ringer'??? Love the optimism, but considering IU hasn't seen an NCAA tourney game since getting steamrolled by UNC in 2016--4 1/2 yrs ago-- CAM has a lot to work to do, to prove himself worthy of such a lofty label.
A guy who isn’t even .500 in the Big Ten is suddenly a “ringer”? We’re decades past the time when IU basketball fans had high standards and were considered “intelligent” about college hoops. “Ringer”? Wow.
 
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IU NBA All Stars: Bellamy, McGinnis, both Van Arsdales, Isiah and Victor. Think that's it. BIg Mac was the ABA MVP in 74 also.

Jon McGlocklin also made it one yr, putting all 3 Vans in the AS game, and 3 players off Branch's last team.

in fact, with Bellamy and McGinnis, that made for 5 NBA all stars that played for IU between 1961 and 71. (the yr before Bobby invented basketball).

and 4 NBA all stars that played for IU between 1961 and 65, with IU basketball on NCAA probation much of that time, due to the football team tieing Ohio State at OSU after IU was cheated out of a touchdown and a win by the refs.
 
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Yes. The real deal.

His results at IU after 3 years have been, at best, mediocre. And I bet that even he would admit that, at least in private...to a friend. He may not put it exactly that way -- he may say that he's "not satisfied" or "committed to doing better". But those are just more forgiving ways of saying the same thing. Heck, he even (finally) made some comments at Huber's last year that indicated he was aware that the results had been unsatisfactory.

I'm sure he and his defenders would say that it's mostly because the cupboard Crean left him was bare. And it's not that there isn't some truth to that. But, at the end of the day, it's still just an excuse. And, just like most successful coaches don't abide excuses from their players, neither should anybody else abide excuses from coaches.

Moreover, it doesn't explain some of the things that have dogged his tenure here -- continuing to attempt a lot of 3s despite consistently poor conversion, failing to find some roster additions to improve that, guys getting playing time despite reports of being disruptive and not fully bought in, etc.

Financial considerations aside, if I were the AD I'd have cut him loose after last season. But, of course, no AD can actually put financial considerations aside...particularly in the devastating wake of Covid. And it's ridiculously easy and pain-free for fans and boosters to say they should.

Our program deserves better than it's gotten -- not just what it got from Crean, but also what it's gotten thus far from Archie. But here's to hoping we finally break through this year. Hope springs eternal....it has to around these parts.
 
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Bark? Sark? Lark? Have you again confused which handle you’re posting under, or is this your afternoon TIA?
C’mon Sark. You and I both know who you are.
I’d tell you “don’t play stupid”, but we both know you wouldn’t be playing.;)
 
C’mon Sark. You and I both know who you are.
I’d tell you “don’t play stupid”, but we both know you wouldn’t be playing.;)
You get more detached from reality every day. Check your decoder ring or pig Latin manual and get back to me when you can. Alternatively, TIA’s happen to plenty of folks your age. Might want to lay off the crosswords for a few days.
 
His results at IU after 3 years have been, at best, mediocre. And I bet that even he would admit that, at least in private...to a friend. He may not put it exactly that way -- he may say that he's "not satisfied" or "committed to doing better". But those are just more forgiving ways of saying the same thing. Heck, he even (finally) made some comments at Huber's last year that indicated he was aware that the results had been unsatisfactory.

I'm sure he and his defenders would say that it's mostly because the cupboard Crean left him was bare. And it's not that there isn't some truth to that. But, at the end of the day, it's still just an excuse. And, just like most successful coaches don't abide excuses from their players, neither should anybody else abide excuses from coaches.

Moreover, it doesn't explain some of the things that have dogged his tenure here -- continuing to attempt a lot of 3s despite consistently poor conversion, failing to find some roster additions to improve that, guys getting playing time despite reports of being disruptive and not fully bought in, etc.

Financial considerations aside, if I were the AD I've have cut him loose after last season. But, of course, no AD can actually put financial considerations aside...particularly in the devastating wake of Covid. And it's ridiculously easy and pain-free for fans and boosters to say they should.

Our program deserves better than it's gotten -- not just what it got from Crean, but also what it's gotten thus far from Archie. But here's to hoping we finally break through this year. Hope springs eternal....it has to around these parts.

Won't argue with any of that save to say that letting him go would have been a mistake. Not just "hope" that makes me think/say so, trust that the coming Season will bear that out, whenever the f*** that may be. Quite content and even a wee exultant to have baseball abbreviated, but Hoops?! That's so messed up.
 
Won't argue with any of that save to say that letting him go would have been a mistake. Not just "hope" that makes me think/say so, trust that the coming Season will bear that out, whenever the f*** that may be. Quite content and even a wee exultant to have baseball abbreviated, but Hoops?! That's so messed up.

Well, it would've been a mistake from a monetary standpoint. The athletic department is going to need to save every single dollar it can for the foreseeable future. But I think we all know that it had already been decided well before COVID hit that Archie would be getting another season, regardless how the season turned out. So the money, COVID, etc. was a moot point.

But I honestly don't believe that the results warranted retaining him -- not the results from last year, not the cumulative results from all 3 years.
 
Well, it would've been a mistake from a monetary standpoint. The athletic department is going to need to save every single dollar it can for the foreseeable future. But I think we all know that it had already been decided well before COVID hit that Archie would be getting another season, regardless how the season turned out. So the money, COVID, etc. was a moot point.

But I honestly don't believe that the results warranted retaining him -- not the results from last year, not the cumulative results from all 3 years.
Regardless of Covid, I think Archie was always going to get a minimum of five years to lead the program, whatever the results. Due to Covid, I think he could easily see a sixth season, even if the results don’t improve appreciably. Budgets will be tight and paying former coaches will be difficult.
 
You get more detached from reality every day. Check your decoder ring or pig Latin manual and get back to me when you can. Alternatively, TIA’s happen to plenty of folks your age. Might want to lay off the crosswords for a few days.
S-A-R-K.
Which will be your next username?
 
I thought Kauffman was a lock and already a silent. Someone on here posted that I believe
 
Uh, you bet.Are you going to take the IQ test Trump took after his TIA? I’ll bet you check pit as a stable genius, too. If you find the decoder ring, let us know. Otherwise, you look desperate with this silliness. Everyone knows your MO.
Ok, Sark, whatever you say . . . 🙄
 
Keep in mind this is hear-say. I live in his area. I’ve talked to some people that know him pretty well. Most people have told me that he is all about IU but his mom has pushed to hold him off because she wants him to get better offers. This is what I’ve heard many times in regards to IU the past several years. Romeo. Brooks. IUs lack of success hasn’t really effected what kids think of IU because it’s all about friendships, coaching philosophy, campus life. It seems more and more that it’s the parents that have trouble buying us. Especially in this State.
Interesting in that on another board I’m a member of, which has a lot of well informed folks, it’s his Mom that is the driving force behind wanting him to go to IU. It’s Trey that wants to keep his options open. It sounds like UVA is the serious comp here but that OU still is most likely.
 
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We want kids that love Indiana Basketball and it’s history. Recently, the Hoosiers have put a decent amount of guys in the NBA. Yogi, Vonleh, Zeller, Vic, Bryant, Juwan, etc. That grass is rarely greener. We will be fine without him.
 
Kaufman is a player and a winner regardless of where he goes. I still believe it will be IU...just a hunch
 
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IU NBA All Stars: Bellamy, McGinnis, both Van Arsdales, Isiah and Victor. Think that's it. BIg Mac was the ABA MVP in 74 also.

Let's not forget a lot of good players that were drafted high, Cheney, Bailey, Guyton, Jeffries, Crawford, Benson, Alford, Graham, Cody, even Evans ... it's not as if these guys weren't solid pro's in their time. Some guys hit with the wrong team, some get injured, some get smart and realize they could see the world and make just as much.
 
Interesting in that on another board I’m a member of, which has a lot of well informed folks, it’s his Mom that is the driving force behind wanting him to go to IU. It’s Trey that wants to keep his options open. It sounds like UVA is the serious comp here but that OU still is most likely.
Of course I meant IU. Highly doubtful he goes to Oklahoma University or Ohio University, but you can never tell with kids these days.
 
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