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John Laskowski

Why the disdain for chains?
Many (most???) are franchises which are owned by local people.

At one time I had two Burger Chef franchises and lived in & spent my money in the city where they were located.
A very good friend of mine has two McDonalds stores. (not in Bloomington, but nearby).

Company stores are more the exception than the rule.
Let me take a guess....I think the perceived distain is probably propagated by the non-chain restaurant owners. Chain stores have an advantage in purchasing power when obtaining special deals through buying in such large bulk. Chain stores are very predictable, whereas local, family owned non-chains are seen as more unique in their offerings.
 
Let me take a guess....I think the perceived distain is probably propagated by the non-chain restaurant owners. Chain stores have an advantage in purchasing power when obtaining special deals through buying in such large bulk. Chain stores are very predictable, whereas local, family owned non-chains are seen as more unique in their offerings.

I have nothing against "non-chain stores", but the money earned from franchised stores supports the community the same as any other.
The advantage in purchasing power permits me to provide a product (which some consider not good enough to consume) at a price less fortunate people can afford. Not everyone can afford to take their family to the higer priced restaurants.
My stores generate money for many employees who spend their paychecks in the local community. Are my franchise stores not as beneficial to the community just because I am part of a group, or "chain"?
 
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PANERA. No drive through and no burgers per se, but a quick-serve chain with healthy fare and way above average quality and preparation. My go-to to-go oasis on many a roadtrip.
 
Why the disdain for chains?
Many (most???) are franchises which are owned by local people.

At one time I had two Burger Chef franchises and lived in & spent my money in the city where they were located.
A very good friend of mine has two McDonalds stores. (not in Bloomington, but nearby).

Company stores are more the exception than the rule.

No disdain for chains at all. They have their place. But if I was visiting Bloomington, which I don't get to do as often anymore.

The last place I would go is f*cking McAlisters or the new Culvers that just opened up.
 
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No disdain for chains at all. They have their place. But if I was visiting Bloomington, which I don't get to do as often anymore.

The last place I would go is f*cking McAlisters or the new Culvers that just opened up.

I understand competely.
I don't go to Chicago or Houston to eat at Hardees, but if I'm hungry & there is one on the next corner, I may stop for a quick sandwich.
I myself very seldom eat fast food, & when I do I try to at least be a little selective.
 
They have Great fried chicken, which I found out when I lived in northern Illinois and used to patronize one of their restaurants. This isn't just a burger joint.
Unfortunately, they discontinued the fried chicken. (Although the chicken tenders are awesome.)

Any place that serves crinkle fries is a winner in my book.

EDIT: I missed the mention on the previous page. Although I still heartily endorse the chicken tenders.
 
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Hopefully if he's making a rare trip to Bloomington (not sure his proximity) he''s stopping by Lil Zagrebs or Nick's or Malibu Grill or Village Deli or some other local staple and not a stupid chain.
Dang it, now you got me pining for a Zagreb’s steak.

The wife and I go there every year on our anniversary.
 
Being an out-of-stater, I like the big network because I can see most of games.

I had a C-Ku Band satellite dish in the 90's. Was able to get all game free. Before purchasing my own system, I frequented IU centric Sports Bars in Dallas from the mid 80s. I expect if the Indiana network returned that there would be some streaming app/channel to show the games.
 
I have nothing against "non-chain stores", but the money earned from franchised stores supports the community the same as any other.
The advantage in purchasing power permits me to provide a product (which some consider not good enough to consume) at a price less fortunate people can afford. Not everyone can afford to take their family to the higer priced restaurants.
My stores generate money for many employees who spend their paychecks in the local community. Are my franchise stores not as beneficial to the community just because I am part of a group, or "chain"?
No, they are not as beneficial and I would think you know that. Do franchise fees stay in the community? Do National ads stay in the community? Does any purchasing of product occur at the local grocery store? Does the construction/ insurance/payroll/pest control occur with local companies? How many youth athletic teams are sponsored by chains/franchises? How many fundraisers do chains/franchises participate in to support local people in the community?
 
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No, they are not as beneficial and I would think you know that. Do franchise fees stay in the community? Do National ads stay in the community? Does any purchasing of product occur at the local grocery store? Does the construction/ insurance/payroll/pest control occur with local companies? How many youth athletic teams are sponsored by chains/franchises? How many fundraisers do chains/franchises participate in to support local people in the community?

Just curious, do you work for an operation, be it a restaurant or other, that meets all of your criteria? I very seriously doubt that.
Franchises meet most. I think you are grasping at straws. Of course the construction, maintenance, pest control etc. are done locally.
Many franchise owners are very active in community activities.
Your model was great in the nineteenth century, but it's a little narrow minded today.
Do you only support businesses that purchase everything locally?
Where do you purchase your groceries? Your gasoline?
Franchises and true "mom & pop" restaurants have a place in every community and both deserve to be supported.
I don't condemn someone who doesn't want to eat at a "chain" store, but they are an important part of our city.
The choices for a restaurant meal would be very limited wfithout them.
 
I have nothing against "non-chain stores", but the money earned from franchised stores supports the community the same as any other.
The advantage in purchasing power permits me to provide a product (which some consider not good enough to consume) at a price less fortunate people can afford. Not everyone can afford to take their family to the higer priced restaurants.
My stores generate money for many employees who spend their paychecks in the local community. Are my franchise stores not as beneficial to the community just because I am part of a group, or "chain"?

They are not but you can rationalize anything if you put enough energy into it. Economically there's little comparison as profits derived from chains are largely siphoned off/exported to benefit shareholders, enrich senior management, fund expansion, etc. While chains may offer employee benefits that are superior to locally owned businesses, no real argument for them otherwise providing equitable economic benefits to communities.

The money gets spent either way, the question is whether it stays within the community or not. WRT chains, for the most part it simply does not. You could hang your hat on chainstores being better than online retailers like Amazon that have zero local presence, but if the issue is restaurants, they don't play in that space.

Independent food service is tough and marginally profitable, and especially if it doesn't involve liquor sales. Up to 90% of independent establishments close during their first year, and the remainder will have an average five-year life span. Just one of the reasons I generally tip like a pirate (in addition to the fact of having 'done time' is such places) when dining out.
 
Just curious, do you work for an operation, be it a restaurant or other, that meets all of your criteria? I very seriously doubt that.
Franchises meet most. I think you are grasping at straws. Of course the construction, maintenance, pest control etc. are done locally.
Many franchise owners are very active in community activities.
Your model was great in the nineteenth century, but it's a little narrow minded today.
Do you only support businesses that purchase everything locally?
Where do you purchase your groceries? Your gasoline?
Franchises and true "mom & pop" restaurants have a place in every community and both deserve to be supported.
I don't condemn someone who doesn't want to eat at a "chain" store, but they are an important part of our city.
The choices for a restaurant meal would be very limited wfithout them.
Yes, I own an operation that meets all the criteria. You said "the money earned by a franchise or chain supports the community like any other."
That is a lie.
 
Yes, I own an operation that meets all the criteria. You said "the money earned by a franchise or chain supports the community like any other."
That is a lie.

No, it is not a lie.
I'll make you a deal. You don't call me a liar & I won't call you one.
 
They are not but you can rationalize anything if you put enough energy into it. Economically there's little comparison as profits derived from chains are largely siphoned off/exported to benefit shareholders, enrich senior management, fund expansion, etc. While chains may offer employee benefits that are superior to locally owned businesses, no real argument for them otherwise providing equitable economic benefits to communities.

The money gets spent either way, the question is whether it stays within the community or not. WRT chains, for the most part it simply does not. You could hang your hat on chainstores being better than online retailers like Amazon that have zero local presence, but if the issue is restaurants, they don't play in that space.

Independent food service is tough and marginally profitable, and especially if it doesn't involve liquor sales. Up to 90% of independent establishments close during their first year, and the remainder will have an average five-year life span. Just one of the reasons I generally tip like a pirate (in addition to the fact of having 'done time' is such places) when dining out.

Some of your argument may be true for some chains &/or franchises, but definitely not all. This I know from experience.
Your rationalization is not superior to mine, & you seem to have put a lot of effort into it.

You are mostly correct about the diffficulty in making a completely independent eating establishment profitable.Why do you suppose I chose the franchise option?
You mention that you "tip like a pirate". I'm happy for you that you can afford to do that. Many can't. At my stores a family can have a meal that fits their budget & still pay the rent. I'm glad you're in a position in life that you don't have to concern yourself with that. Many do.

I have also owned drinking establishments, and you are correct in the fact that money can be made in that endeavor, while still searving a bit of food.

I am not trying to say that chains/franchises are better for the community, I am saying that they serve the community just as well as the true "mom & pops", if there are indeed any "true mom & pops".
If you don't believe that, close them all down and then try your argument/rationalization on the people who frequent them. Some of those people are the same people who some of you profess to care so much about.
 
Some of your argument may be true for some chains &/or franchises, but definitely not all. This I know from experience.
Your rationalization is not superior to mine, & you seem to have put a lot of effort into it.

You are mostly correct about the diffficulty in making a completely independent eating establishment profitable.Why do you suppose I chose the franchise option?
You mention that you "tip like a pirate". I'm happy for you that you can afford to do that. Many can't. At my stores a family can have a meal that fits their budget & still pay the rent. I'm glad you're in a position in life that you don't have to concern yourself with that. Many do.

I have also owned drinking establishments, and you are correct in the fact that money can be made in that endeavor, while still searving a bit of food.

I am not trying to say that chains/franchises are better for the community, I am saying that they serve the community just as well as the true "mom & pops", if there are indeed any "true mom & pops".
If you don't believe that, close them all down and then try your argument/rationalization on the people who frequent them. Some of those people are the same people who some of you profess to care so much about.

With a/your hybrid selective notion of "service" and non-sequitur reasoning you can say anything. Go for it.

Never said I cared. May just like (selfishly) seeing people light up. Could be mitigation for accumulated guilt. You really have no idea.
 
I like Culver's although I don't go there often because it's "fast food" and not healthy, but damned good tasting. Laz was into commercial real estate back in the 1980's in the Greenwood area. I had lunch with him one time over a real estate matter. He was a nice guy and I was google-eyed.

I get the impression he is getting into the Culver restaurant business as a means to get his son set up in business... a taking care of family type of thing and using his local name recognition to Culver's franchise advantage. I live about 25 min. from his Columbus store and will probably go there before too long to have a fish sandwich and hopefully get a glimpse of this IU basketball "god" clearing tables.
Well, hell, you can be as busy as you want patronizing former players like that. See links below sampling former players' present careers.

https://www.westpointfinancialgroup.com/joe-hillman

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ted-kitchel-68360b113

https://patch.com/california/lacana...ni-and-cif-basketball-star-richard-mandeville
 
PANERA. No drive through and no burgers per se, but a quick-serve chain with healthy fare and way above average quality and preparation. My go-to to-go oasis on many a roadtrip.
Blasphemy! Lousy pastries. Long's strudel and yeast doughnuts rule!
 
I have nothing against "non-chain stores", but the money earned from franchised stores supports the community the same as any other.
The advantage in purchasing power permits me to provide a product (which some consider not good enough to consume) at a price less fortunate people can afford. Not everyone can afford to take their family to the higer priced restaurants.
My stores generate money for many employees who spend their paychecks in the local community. Are my franchise stores not as beneficial to the community just because I am part of a group, or "chain"?
Do you charge more than, like, 20-30 cents for a sugary/diet soft drink of any size? Might be a bit overpriced for a guy who "supports the community the same as any other" and provides a product "at a price less fortunate people can afford" don't you think?

How does the sticker price of one of these drinks compare to the pennies it costs to produce such a drink?

Of course, you'll say the money spent on national and regional advertising to persuade poor people to eat there also stays in the community, so no point in even asking about that.
 
Do you charge more than, like, 20-30 cents for a sugary/diet soft drink of any size? Might be a bit overpriced for a guy who "supports the community the same as any other" and provides a product "at a price less fortunate people can afford" don't you think?

How does the sticker price of one of these drinks compare to the pennies it costs to produce such a drink?

Of course, you'll say the money spent on national and regional advertising to persuade poor people to eat there also stays in the community, so no point in even asking about that.

I'm sorry, do the estblishments you frequent not offer soft drinks? And if they do, do they not charge for them?
I'm not sure what your problem with me making a living selling food is.
 
With a/your hybrid selective notion of "service" and non-sequitur reasoning you can say anything. Go for it.

Never said I cared. May just like (selfishly) seeing people light up. Could be mitigation for accumulated guilt. You really have no idea.

What I really have no idea about is what the jibberish you just posted means.
And like you I don't actually care.
Trust me. You don't, didn't, won't, "light me up".
 
I'm sorry, do the estblishments you frequent not offer soft drinks? And if they do, do they not charge for them? I'm not sure what your problem with me making a living selling food is.

Soft drinks are not by any stretch of the imagination, "food".

What I really have no idea about is what the jibberish you just posted means. And like you I don't actually care. Trust me. You don't, didn't, won't, "light me up".

That your reading comprehension is sub-HS level is no surprise. That and your self-absorption explains why you thought that I was talking about you.
I wasn't and will do my best to avoid doing so in the future, but if selling junk-food is a noble and community-enriching enterprise in your mind am sure that's all that matters.
 
I, too, was dismayed last year when Culver's got rid of their fried chicken. It was my favorite thing there.

Chuck Marlowe and Hilliard Gates. Love it!!
 
Soft drinks are not by any stretch of the imagination, "food".



That your reading comprehension is sub-HS level is no surprise. That and your self-absorption explains why you thought that I was talking about you.
I wasn't and will do my best to avoid doing so in the future, but if selling junk-food is a noble and community-enriching enterprise in your mind am sure that's all that matters.

When you quote me, I assume, maybe wrongly, that you are talking about me. If I was incorrect in that assumption, I offer my sincere apologies.

Actually soft drinks are offered, along with coffee, water, etc. believing that most people prefer to have a drink with their meal.
It is my belief that most restaurants do this as a matter of course. I don't offer wine, which might (or might not) be your preference.

As to my reading comprehension, I usually do reasonably well, but I will admit that when I read your posts I sometimes find myself having a problem understanding just exactly what the F you are trying to convey. Perhaps someone else on this board (who understands the workings of your mind) would be kind enough to translate for me.
 
I'm sorry, do the estblishments you frequent not offer soft drinks? And if they do, do they not charge for them?
I'm not sure what your problem with me making a living selling food is.
Yes, since you didn't deny it, I assume you are in fact overcharging for soft drinks like a lot of restaurants.

I don't have any "problem" because I was talking about your business practices, not mine. Don't deflect. It doesn't work these days. If there is a "problem" examine your conscience if you can.

Your post sounded way too much like you claim to be a Robin Hood philanthropist helping those poor communities (after chain restaurants put their local restaurants out of business) but really all you're doing is selling stuff.

Did you know this about the soft drinks you sell (and still chose to sell them?)?

MedicalComplicationsofObesity.jpg


Sorry, but you decided to have a discussion,
 
Yes, since you didn't deny it, I assume you are in fact overcharging for soft drinks like a lot of restaurants.

I don't have any "problem" because I was talking about your business practices, not mine. Don't deflect. It doesn't work these days. If there is a "problem" examine your conscience if you can.

Your post sounded way too much like you claim to be a Robin Hood philanthropist helping those poor communities (after chain restaurants put their local restaurants out of business) but really all you're doing is selling stuff.

Did you know this about the soft drinks you sell (and still chose to sell them?)?

MedicalComplicationsofObesity.jpg


Sorry, but you decided to have a discussion,

I'm not really sure to address your post. My business practices are no different than any other merchant.
I simply try to obtain a reasonable ROI. No deflection here. My conscience is absolutely clear. In your mind is everyone who sells soft drinks a villain?
If so do you refuse to eat at any establishment that serves them? Or is it just me that you object to? I'm reasonably sure that what I charge for a drink is no more than any other restaurant. Actually less than any "sit down" restaurant.
I don't claim to be a philanthropist. I am merely a merchant selling a legal product that people want.(just like your "local restaurant")
If you don't want to frequent my business that is your choice, and I respect that. What you don't have the right to do is demonize me for doing what every other eating establishment does.
If you are upset that I make a profit on soft drinks I have to assume that you never purchase an alcoholic beverage at a restaurant. There is some real profit there also.
 
I'm not really sure to address your post. My business practices are no different than any other merchant.
I simply try to obtain a reasonable ROI. No deflection here. My conscience is absolutely clear. In your mind is everyone who sells soft drinks a villain?
If so do you refuse to eat at any establishment that serves them? Or is it just me that you object to? I'm reasonably sure that what I charge for a drink is no more than any other restaurant. Actually less than any "sit down" restaurant.
I don't claim to be a philanthropist. I am merely a merchant selling a legal product that people want.(just like your "local restaurant")
If you don't want to frequent my business that is your choice, and I respect that. What you don't have the right to do is demonize me for doing what every other eating establishment does.
If you are upset that I make a profit on soft drinks I have to assume that you never purchase an alcoholic beverage at a restaurant. There is some real profit there also.
As I said, there are parts of your post No. 42 where you suggest you perform a service, i.e. a "benefit to the community".

I'm not wrong but I will wish you well on your business.
 
As I said, there are parts of your post No. 42 where you suggest you perform a service, i.e. a "benefit to the community".

I'm not wrong but I will wish you well on your business.

I don't now, nor did I ever suggest that I perform a service over or above what any other business does.
If you took it that way, that is on you.
By saying you are "not wrong" you suggest that makes me wrong by default. I reject that.
I also wish you well along with any eating establishment that you choose to support.
Good day sir.
 
Yeah, the new store coming to Bton is getting a lot of talk.

Now tell the the truth -- is it really that good? I've never been to one. I'm just wondering if it's one of those deals where people talk so highly of it because they're scarce. Like Coors Beer before they went national, or Dunkin Donuts, or even White Castle back before they came to Bton (we used to make drunken slider runs to Indy).
I'd eat Streak n Shake over Culvers. They're similar but I like SnS better.
 
Yeah, the new store coming to Bton is getting a lot of talk.

Now tell the the truth -- is it really that good? I've never been to one. I'm just wondering if it's one of those deals where people talk so highly of it because they're scarce. Like Coors Beer before they went national, or Dunkin Donuts, or even White Castle back before they came to Bton (we used to make drunken slider runs to Indy).

The thing I liked about Culvers the first time we went, their burgers remind me of the hamburgers my mom would fix on friday's after she'd go to the grocery when I was a kid. She cooked them on a flat skillet and the edges were crispy and not too thick. When you get a burger it actually looks like the one on the menu.

I like Steak & Shake as well but I'm not a fan of their French fries. I'm not a big fan of French fries period.
 
Trojan Horse at the southeast corner of Bloomington's town square surprisingly has a great double cheeseburger. Freddy's in Columbus has a good one, too, for a fast food chain restaurant. Both places are on par for a Steak 'n Shake type burger, which I adore.

Trojan Horse has the best cheeseburger in Bloomington.
 
If you're in the mood to see an IU legend you could always drive over to Columbus and grab some dinner at Culvers on Jonathon Moore Pike. John is the store manager there and can be seen waiting on people just about any day.

Ordering a Culvers Deluxe from an IU legend, who would have thought.
I met Laz in Rupp Arena after the game we beat UK 78-53 in '88 (I think that was the year). He wasn't there to broadcast the game, but was enjoying the results of the game. We made a sign that we hid to get into the game that read "IU vs. the Young and the Rexless". I showed John the sign and he autographed it. I remember talking about the stand nearby that was selling UK sweatshirts at 50% off and how they were still overpriced.
 
IHOP is flipping the P to become IHOb or International House of Burgers. So burger places across the country better beware. IHOb is coming.
 
Trojan Horse has the best cheeseburger in Bloomington.
If you are in the area sometime and like cheesburgers, try the one at the Story Inn Restaurant (southern Brown Co.) called the 1871 Burger (I believe that is the correct year). It comes with a delicious sauce...onion bacon jam.
 
IHOP is flipping the P to become IHOb or International House of Burgers. So burger places across the country better beware. IHOb is coming.

My understanding is that the change is not permanent. It is an advertising ploy to introduce their new line of burgers.
I'm not a IHOP (or IHOb) person, so I'm not familiar with their menu. Have they never served burgers before?
 
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