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Jewish Community under attack

I recall seeing/hearing/reading long ago that the European Jews became successful money people because the Roman Church outlawed any charging of interest on loaned money, calling any interest charge as usury. The Jews weren't bound by that Church ruling. I won't claim there's any validity to this, but it made sense to me at the time.
I believe I heard something similar. But I'd bet the Catholic Church took their usual and customary fees.....
 
The numbers and cause of death are debatable, and have been fo
Liar.

Nothing I have posted has been proven to be false.

Name calling and repeating emotional drivel is not refutation.
There is something inside you that has led you to dislike Jews. Perhaps it’s your own interpretation of history or maybe it was an experience you once had with a Jew. More than likely somewhere in your background there’s others in your shared experience that feel as you do. I’m giving you the opportunity to change. You and I can sit down or over the phone and talk this though. Heck you can even feel beneath my hat to make sure I have no horns! I don’t expect you to come to me publicly. But you know how to find me. Heck maybe we can even attend an IU game someday. The first step must be yours my friend.
 
That's because it's never about helping Palestinians, always about hurting Israel.
That doesn't make sense. These people you accuse of wanting to "hurt Israel" are similar to Americans who protested various US policies. The issue wasn't hurting the US, the issue was wanting the US to live up to what people feel it embodies and being disappointed when it fails to do so...

Did you live thru Vietnam? The country became divided between people who essentially believed "my country right or wrong" and others who felt America should live up to its promise of promoting freedom and self-determination for people who had suffered under Colonialism, much the same as the original 13 colonies... We inherited France's struggle to preserve their Indochinese Empire, long after the French had themselves been defeated and moved on...

It's easy for people to believe in both Israel's right to exist, and at the same time reject the notion that Israeli ultra-Nationalist settlers (the Zionist movement) have the RIGHT to settle and reappropriate Palestinian Lands. As a result people like Beinart and organizations like Breaking The Silence (made up of 1000s of former IDF soldiers) demonstrate against the same occupation they were once a part of, similar to the Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

Neither organization is trying to destroy their respective "country", but rather change policies or in the case of the VVAW end a war they felt was illegal and immoral. But labeling former Jewish soldiers from the IDF or Viet Vets as anti-Semitic or anti-American, resp is the refuge of the "love it or leave it "crowd. And in most cases, those are the people that equate "patriotism" more with symbols like the "flag" and don't really have an understanding of the ideals the country is supposed to embody...
 
There is something inside you that has led you to dislike Jews. Perhaps it’s your own interpretation of history or maybe it was an experience you once had with a Jew. More than likely somewhere in your background there’s others in your shared experience that feel as you do. I’m giving you the opportunity to change. You and I can sit down or over the phone and talk this though. Heck you can even feel beneath my hat to make sure I have no horns! I don’t expect you to come to me publicly. But you know how to find me. Heck maybe we can even attend an IU game someday. The first step must be yours my friend.

Ignorance, stupidity, or Nazi DNA.
 
Has anyone else ever got the feeling that we come here to be combative and when we leave for a while, we come back because we miss the combat? We don't feel whole without the controversy.
OR, is my new Pharmacist just a freaking liberal tree hugger and I need to change dispensaries (I mean Pharmacists)?
 
So you're suggesting they weren't gassed? What are you saying. You are a Holocaust denier and at every attempt try and twist the history to fit your narrative. That's exactly what you people do. Just say you don't like Jews and are Nazi sympathizer. You obviously didn't have family die in the Holocaust, you obviously have never visited a death camp. You're pure scum is what you are. I'm done with you you POS.
Wasn't it General Eisenhower who when they went to the death camps ordered pictures be taken? His reasoning was,"Take pictures because someday some SOB is going to deny it happened".
 
Wasn't it General Eisenhower who when they went to the death camps ordered pictures be taken? His reasoning was,"Take pictures because someday some SOB is going to deny it happened".
Quoted at the Wiki, Eisenhower to Marshall:

The things I saw beggar description. While I was touring the camp I encountered three men who had been inmates and by one ruse or another had made their escape. I interviewed them through an interpreter. The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said that he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in a position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to 'propaganda.'
 
"The lesson of the Holocaust" is that Jews should have been armed?

This is not a rhetorical question. Are you brain-damaged?
Hopefully, you are just playing stupid and not as dumb as you appear. If the Israelis were not prepared to defend themselves with force, they would be wiped out in a "New York Minute". The lesson learned from the holocaust... You must be willing and able to fight to defend yourself and you must have the means to do so. If you do not, you can be slaughtered.
 
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Hopefully, you are just playing stupid and not as dumb as you appear. If the Israelis were not prepared to defend themselves with force, they would be wiped out in a "New York Minute". The lesson learned from the holocaust. You must be willing and able to fight to defend yourself and you must have the means to do so. If you do not, you can be slaughtered.
No, he's not playing.
 
Hopefully, you are just playing stupid and not as dumb as you appear. If the Israelis were not prepared to defend themselves with force, they would be wiped out in a "New York Minute". The lesson learned from the holocaust... You must be willing and able to fight to defend yourself and you must have the means to do so. If you do not, you can be slaughtered.
First, in a thread filled with anti-Semitic venom from a Nazi sympathizer, you single out my post? That doesn't say much for you.

Next, I don't know how your post read before you edited it, but you seem to be comparing the country of Israel today with communities of Jewish civilians in Europe in the '30s and '40s. The absurdity of that comparison is lost probably only on you.

The suggestion that small arms resistance might have deterred Hitler from proceeding with his genocide of European Jews is preposterous. It is completely at odds with his decision to invade European nations with well-trained, well-equipped and powerful military forces.

With respect to Germany in particular, Jews were 0.75% of the German population in the 1930s. Any armed resistance was met with overwhelming force, and exploited by the Nazis for further persecution. Hitler's propaganda machine justified Kristallnacht (anti-Jewish riots and the massacre of dozens of Jews) in response to the shooting of a German diplomat by a 17 year-old Jewish gunman. In repressive regimes, if someone who is part of an excluded minority uses a gun, that gun use is inevitably presented as evidence of the excluded group's evilness and criminality.

Even putting aside the ridiculous notion that armed German Jews could have somehow thwarted Hitler's agenda, it's important to note that most of the Jews killed during the Holocaust were not killed in Germany but in Eastern Europe. As a result, Hitler's 1938 law prohibiting German Jews' ownership of firearms was mostly irrelevant. The overwhelming majority of Holocaust victims were Jews outside of Germany.

There is absolutely no way that armed Jews could have stopped the Nazi genocide machine. The lesson from the Holocaust isn't about guns. The lesson is the jarring awareness of what intolerance, bigotry and hatred can lead to, and the importance of standing up to hate and prejudice.
 
First, in a thread filled with anti-Semitic venom from a Nazi sympathizer, you single out my post? That doesn't say much for you.

Next, I don't know how your post read before you edited it, but you seem to be comparing the country of Israel today with communities of Jewish civilians in Europe in the '30s and '40s. The absurdity of that comparison is lost probably only on you.

The suggestion that small arms resistance might have deterred Hitler from proceeding with his genocide of European Jews is preposterous. It is completely at odds with his decision to invade European nations with well-trained, well-equipped and powerful military forces.

With respect to Germany in particular, Jews were 0.75% of the German population in the 1930s. Any armed resistance was met with overwhelming force, and exploited by the Nazis for further persecution. Hitler's propaganda machine justified Kristallnacht (anti-Jewish riots and the massacre of dozens of Jews) in response to the shooting of a German diplomat by a 17 year-old Jewish gunman. In repressive regimes, if someone who is part of an excluded minority uses a gun, that gun use is inevitably presented as evidence of the excluded group's evilness and criminality.

Even putting aside the ridiculous notion that armed German Jews could have somehow thwarted Hitler's agenda, it's important to note that most of the Jews killed during the Holocaust were not killed in Germany but in Eastern Europe. As a result, Hitler's 1938 law prohibiting German Jews' ownership of firearms was mostly irrelevant. The overwhelming majority of Holocaust victims were Jews outside of Germany.

There is absolutely no way that armed Jews could have stopped the Nazi genocide machine. The lesson from the Holocaust isn't about guns. The lesson is the jarring awareness of what intolerance, bigotry and hatred can lead to, and the importance of standing up to hate and prejudice.
"Any armed resistance was met with overwhelming force, and exploited by the Nazis for further persecution. Hitler's"

Ha ha haaa-aaaaa!!! Yeah, sitting there and being picked off individually is much better than being attacked on a larger scale.

Your posts show such naivete, it's almost cute.

"There is absolutely no way that armed Jews could have stopped the Nazi genocide machine."

That's not the point. The ability to defend youself is the point. It doesn't matter if you're facing overwhelming force - most people, which obviously doesn't include you - would rather face their attacker with all they have available. Otherwise, they're only sheep, which is what the overwhelming Jewish populcation of Germany became - sheep being led to slaughter.

Look up the Warsaw Ghetto uprising sometime and see what a few people with even small arms can do. Of course, they were defeated in the end, but they also inspired other uprisings.

 
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"Any armed resistance was met with overwhelming force, and exploited by the Nazis for further persecution. Hitler's"

Ha ha haaa-aaaaa!!! Yeah, sitting there and being picked off individually is much better than being attacked on a larger scale.

Your posts show such naivete, it's almost cute.

"There is absolutely no way that armed Jews could have stopped the Nazi genocide machine."

That's not the point. The ability to defend youself is the point. It doesn't matter if you're facing overwhelming force - most people, which obviously doesn't include you - would rather face their attacker with all they have available. Otherwise, they're only sheep, which is what the overwhelming Jewish populcation of Germany became - sheep being led to slaughter.

Look up the Warsaw Ghetto uprising sometime and see what a few people with even small arms can do. Of course, they were defeated in the end, but they also inspired other uprisings.

The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising provides zero support for your ludicrous position that "the lesson from the Holocaust" is that Jews should have been armed. While the resistance fighters were incredibly heroic, they knew what they were doing was futile. The only surviving resistance commander said that their inspiration to fight was "to pick the time and place of our deaths."

13,000 Jews were killed in the ghetto during the uprising. Of that number, 6,000 were burned alive or died from smoke inhalation. Almost all of the remaining 50,000 residents were moved to death camps.

Again, this isn't about the courage or spirit of the resistance fighters, which was extraordinary, or the fact that they inspired other smaller uprisings. They opted to fight back rather than die in death camps. But the resistance fighters in Warsaw never had a chance and they knew it. The uprising involved fewer than 1,000 people against a powerful army, and there was no doubt how it was going to turn out.

In sum, your claim that the "lesson" from the Holocaust is that the Jews should have been armed is like most of your claims - - complete nonsense. Even in places where they were armed, European Jews were unable to thwart Hitler's genocidal agenda. Holocaust survivors themselves say the lesson is understanding what scapegoating, prejudice and hate can lead to, and doing everything possible to prevent it from happening again. But keep clinging to your false narrative, friend, if it makes you feel better.
 
The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising provides zero support for your ludicrous position that "the lesson from the Holocaust" is that Jews should have been armed. While the resistance fighters were incredibly heroic, they knew what they were doing was futile. The only surviving resistance commander said that their inspiration to fight was "to pick the time and place of our deaths."

13,000 Jews were killed in the ghetto during the uprising. Of that number, 6,000 were burned alive or died from smoke inhalation. Almost all of the remaining 50,000 residents were moved to death camps.

Again, this isn't about the courage or spirit of the resistance fighters, which was extraordinary, or the fact that they inspired other smaller uprisings. They opted to fight back rather than die in death camps. But the resistance fighters in Warsaw never had a chance and they knew it. The uprising involved fewer than 1,000 people against a powerful army, and there was no doubt how it was going to turn out.

In sum, your claim that the "lesson" from the Holocaust is that the Jews should have been armed is like most of your claims - - complete nonsense. Even in places where they were armed, European Jews were unable to thwart Hitler's genocidal agenda. Holocaust survivors themselves say the lesson is understanding what scapegoating, prejudice and hate can lead to, and doing everything possible to prevent it from happening again. But keep clinging to your false narrative, friend, if it makes you feel better.
My wife’s grandfather fought in the resistance in the Warsaw Ghetto. He was incredibly lucky to have survived. He met his wife in a displaced persons camp. His wife my wife’s grandmother lied about her age and was very beautiful but was afraid she wouldn’t find a husband if she told her real age which was 10 years older. She didn’t tell anyone until her death. Her husband never knew the secret as he died very young as a baker in Philadelphia. I don’t know that he made it to 60. Tough life caught up with him. Had a heart attaCk.
 
My wife’s grandfather fought in the resistance in the Warsaw Ghetto. He was incredibly lucky to have survived. He met his wife in a displaced persons camp. His wife my wife’s grandmother lied about her age and was very beautiful but was afraid she wouldn’t find a husband if she told her real age which was 10 years older. She didn’t tell anyone until her death. Her husband never knew the secret as he died very young as a baker in Philadelphia. I don’t know that he made it to 60. Tough life caught up with him. Had a heart attaCk.
I hope someone's documenting your fascinating family history.
 
I hope someone's documenting your fascinating family history.
Yea, there’s a bunch of letters including a personal account of what went down and what they saw in the camps. I’ve never read these letters. They’re in Polish and my father in law who was born in the DP camp doesn’t like to talk about this stuff.
 
My wife’s grandfather fought in the resistance in the Warsaw Ghetto. He was incredibly lucky to have survived. He met his wife in a displaced persons camp. His wife my wife’s grandmother lied about her age and was very beautiful but was afraid she wouldn’t find a husband if she told her real age which was 10 years older. She didn’t tell anyone until her death. Her husband never knew the secret as he died very young as a baker in Philadelphia. I don’t know that he made it to 60. Tough life caught up with him. Had a heart attaCk.
So, he fought them and survived. Much better than being put in a cattle car and sent to Auschwitz or Birkenau to be gassed, as Bowlmanie would have perfered.
 
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The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising provides zero support for your ludicrous position that "the lesson from the Holocaust" is that Jews should have been armed. While the resistance fighters were incredibly heroic, they knew what they were doing was futile. The only surviving resistance commander said that their inspiration to fight was "to pick the time and place of our deaths."

13,000 Jews were killed in the ghetto during the uprising. Of that number, 6,000 were burned alive or died from smoke inhalation. Almost all of the remaining 50,000 residents were moved to death camps.

Again, this isn't about the courage or spirit of the resistance fighters, which was extraordinary, or the fact that they inspired other smaller uprisings. They opted to fight back rather than die in death camps. But the resistance fighters in Warsaw never had a chance and they knew it. The uprising involved fewer than 1,000 people against a powerful army, and there was no doubt how it was going to turn out.

In sum, your claim that the "lesson" from the Holocaust is that the Jews should have been armed is like most of your claims - - complete nonsense. Even in places where they were armed, European Jews were unable to thwart Hitler's genocidal agenda. Holocaust survivors themselves say the lesson is understanding what scapegoating, prejudice and hate can lead to, and doing everything possible to prevent it from happening again. But keep clinging to your false narrative, friend, if it makes you feel better.
It wasn't futile for Eppy99's Grandfather-in-law. Friend.
 
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So, he fought them and survived. Much better than being put in a cattle car and sent to Auschwitz or Birkenau to be gassed, as Bowlmanie would have perfered.
No. I wouldn't have "perfered" that, Danny. I admire people who fight back and, although I'm not Jewish, I like to think I would have done the same under those horrific circumstances.

But back to the matter at hand, friend. This exchange was originally about your absurd claim that "the lesson" from the Holocaust is that the Jews should have been armed. That's obviously not "the lesson." But you're on a roll. This most recent claim of yours is even crazier than your comment a couple of weeks ago that "China could blow the US Navy out of the water."
 
No. I wouldn't have "perfered" that, Danny. I admire people who fight back and, although I'm not Jewish, I like to think I would have done the same under those horrific circumstances.

But back to the matter at hand, friend. This exchange was originally about your absurd claim that "the lesson" from the Holocaust is that the Jews should have been armed. That's obviously not "the lesson." But you're on a roll. This most recent claim of yours is even crazier than your comment a couple of weeks ago that "China could blow the US Navy out of the water."
How many weeks have you been stewing about this? It very much is a lesson of being able to defend yourself against an aggressor who means to exterminate you.

You seem to be the only one who doesn't realize that.
 
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How many weeks have you been stewing about this? It very much is a lesson of being able to defend yourself against an aggressor who means to exterminate you.

You seem to be the only one who doesn't realize that.
I'll never be the anonymous message board tough guy that you are, Danny.
 
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How many weeks have you been stewing about this? It very much is a lesson of being able to defend yourself against an aggressor who means to exterminate you.

You seem to be the only one who doesn't realize that.
When it hits the fan here. There will be a one question litmus test to find out if someone is a "bowl" type person or not. Judgement will be very swift as we move along.
 
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When it hits the fan here. There will be a one question litmus test to find out if someone is a "bowl" type person or not. Judgement will be very swift as we move along.
What are you talking about? You have no idea what my experiences are or what kind of a person I am. In any event, I have no desire for anyone to be like me. One of me is enough.

That said, I have to admit that I'm disappointed in the relative lack of outrage at Massasuta's blatant anti-Semitism in this thread. To his credit, Eppy has spoken out, but I thought there would be more Christian voices including that of the resident pastor. Instead, just a whole lotta nothing from some otherwise very active board participants.

Where do you stand?
 
What are you talking about? You have no idea what my experiences are or what kind of a person I am. In any event, I have no desire for anyone to be like me. One of me is enough.

That said, I have to admit that I'm disappointed in the relative lack of outrage at Massasuta's blatant anti-Semitism in this thread. To his credit, Eppy has spoken out, but I thought there would be more Christian voices including that of the resident pastor. Instead, just a whole lotta nothing from some otherwise very active board participants.

Where do you stand?
I asked you once to clean up my living quarters....there inside your apparently numb skull.
 
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That doesn't make sense. These people you accuse of wanting to "hurt Israel" are similar to Americans who protested various US policies. The issue wasn't hurting the US, the issue was wanting the US to live up to what people feel it embodies and being disappointed when it fails to do so...

Did you live thru Vietnam? The country became divided between people who essentially believed "my country right or wrong" and others who felt America should live up to its promise of promoting freedom and self-determination for people who had suffered under Colonialism, much the same as the original 13 colonies... We inherited France's struggle to preserve their Indochinese Empire, long after the French had themselves been defeated and moved on...

It's easy for people to believe in both Israel's right to exist, and at the same time reject the notion that Israeli ultra-Nationalist settlers (the Zionist movement) have the RIGHT to settle and reappropriate Palestinian Lands. As a result people like Beinart and organizations like Breaking The Silence (made up of 1000s of former IDF soldiers) demonstrate against the same occupation they were once a part of, similar to the Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

Neither organization is trying to destroy their respective "country", but rather change policies or in the case of the VVAW end a war they felt was illegal and immoral. But labeling former Jewish soldiers from the IDF or Viet Vets as anti-Semitic or anti-American, resp is the refuge of the "love it or leave it "crowd. And in most cases, those are the people that equate "patriotism" more with symbols like the "flag" and don't really have an understanding of the ideals the country is supposed to embody...
You must appease the people that hate you and openly root for your destruction or else they might be mad at you.
 
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I have to say there is a sweet, sweet irony in some of the posters in this thread jumping all over Mas while simultaneously wanting Israeli's to play nice with Palestinians that seek their extermination.
With all do respect I believe those are two different arguments. Arguing against a Holocaust denier is a topic separate from the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. They really deserve two separate threads.
 
With all do respect I believe those are two different arguments. Arguing against a Holocaust denier is a topic separate from the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. They really deserve two separate threads.
There is a clear through line.
 
I have to say there is a sweet, sweet irony in some of the posters in this thread jumping all over Mas while simultaneously wanting Israeli's to play nice with Palestinians that seek their extermination.
Especially when the majority of my posts involve historical reviews of events occurring eighty to one hundred years ago.

What is evident is the success of state education to produce generations
of sheep, whose peer relationships have devolved to the lowest common denominator, wherein bullies and manipulators rise to the top.
 
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Especially when the majority of my posts involve historical reviews of events occurring eighty to one hundred years ago.

What is evident is the success of state education to produce generations
of sheep, whose peer relationships have devolved to the lowest common denominator, wherein bullies and manipulators rise to the top.
Just stop. We know what you represent. You’re too afraid to meet me, talk to me in person, meet with with Holocaust historians, accurately answer my questions. I can’t help you if you don’t want to change. The common denominator in almost all your arguments is blaming the Jews. It’s a common theme of anti-semitism and most people on here don’t recognize it, no offense because they haven’t had to deal with it all their lives.
 
Just stop. We know what you represent. You’re too afraid to meet me, talk to me in person, meet with with Holocaust historians, accurately answer my questions. I can’t help you if you don’t want to change. The common denominator in almost all your arguments is blaming the Jews. It’s a common theme of anti-semitism and most people on here don’t recognize it, no offense because they haven’t had to deal with it all their lives.
Get over yourself.

What makes you think I pay the slightest bit of attention to your hysterical failures to bully or manipulate this forum into the same ages-old narrative?

You're starting to bore me.
 
Get over yourself.

What makes you think I pay the slightest bit of attention to your hysterical failures to bully or manipulate this forum into the same ages-old narrative?

You're starting to bore me.
Would that be the narrative that the Holocaust killed 6 million Jews and another 5 million non Jews? Is that the narrative I’m bullying you and others to believe? I’m sorry you don’t agree with me standing up for my people and against your lies. It must be very tiring. I’m not going away….but the door is right behind you and your anti-Semitic takes won’t be missed.
 
Just stop. We know what you represent. You’re too afraid to meet me, talk to me in person, meet with with Holocaust historians, accurately answer my questions. I can’t help you if you don’t want to change. The common denominator in almost all your arguments is blaming the Jews. It’s a common theme of anti-semitism and most people on here don’t recognize it, no offense because they haven’t had to deal with it all their lives.
Actually, I think most here do recognize it.
 
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