Jared Kushner Russian Spy

[CO. Hoosier]

I don't think you understand that we're discussing massive amounts of...not just circumstantial evidence. There's way, WAY too much concrete information out there to simply be speculation. For instance, NSA Chief admitted to his workforce that they have evidence Trump colluded with the Russians.

Trump reportedly asked DNI Dan Coats and NSA Chief Mike Rogers to deny that Trump had any ties to Russia during the campaign. Both told Trump to pound sand.

In Mike Rogers address to his staff, he reportedly admitted that President Trump asked him to discredit the FBI and James Comey, which the admiral flatly refused to do. As Rogers explained, he informed the commander in chief, “I know you won’t like it, but I have to tell what I have seen”—a probable reference to specific intelligence establishing collusion between the Kremlin and Team Trump.

Rogers then added that such SIGINT exists, and it is damning. He stated, “There is no question that we [meaning NSA] have evidence of election involvement and questionable contacts with the Russians.” Although Rogers did not cite the specific intelligence he was referring to, agency officials with direct knowledge have informed me that DIRNSA was obviously referring to a series of SIGINT reports from 2016 based on intercepts of communications between known Russian intelligence officials and key members of Trump’s campaign, in which they discussed methods of damaging Hillary Clinton.​

This doesn't add up.

First, all the congressional intelligence committee members who reviewed the NSA evidence have publicly said there is no evidence of collusion. Some have added "yet".

Second, Clapper has said he has seen no evidence of collusion.

Third, I have doubts that a pro like Rogers would voluntarily speak of highly classified matters, and matters subject to current criminal and congressional investigations, in a manner where leaks are guaranteed.

I have no doubt that Trump requested these people to confirm lack of evidence or affirmatively state there is no evidence of collusion. This is old news, Comey already said Trump made the same request of him, and Comey responded by saying he didn't speak publicly about evidence or lack thereof.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Schindler quoted NSA staff who were in attendance for Rogers' discussion.

He still can't back up his headline. That's speculation.

 

[DrHoops]

I will be proven correct.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

The author of The Observer article is a former NSA agent and is VERY plugged into the IC. He's been right about almost every single thing that's happened so far in the Trump/Russia affair.

No one said we're there now, but we're getting there quickly. Especially when these guys start turning on one another.

It could get interesting/entertaining if the ship really starts going down and all the rats jump off trying to save themselves.

I think the reason Flynn isn't going along with the subpoenas is because he's trying to make sure he has a deal first. He doesn't want to give the info away for free. He's already asked for full immunity.

I don't fully believe the FBI's reason for not giving congress all the Comey memos. I think the Mueller investigation gives the FBI a reason to withhold the memos, but I think the real reason the FBI isn't releasing the memos is because they don't want to take a chance that a real patriot like Chaffetz (sarcasm) will run over to the White House and give the administration a heads up. I think Trump is an idiot who pissed off the entire FBI and they are preparing to drop the hammer on him. I think the FBI is waiting to release all the memos publicly through testimony so the administration won't have a chance to get out in front of damaging info.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I will be proven correct.

I wouldn't be surprised if you are. I'm just saying you haven't been yet. What's actually known publicly is suggestive, that's it. Drawing radical conclusions now is no better than what the Republicans did to Hillary.

 

[toastedbread]

Right wing blogs always talk about the "deep state". I think Trump and associates seem to be answering to something other than the American people. Who is the "deep state'? My answer would be Trump and Putin.

call it the "red state"

 

[toastedbread]

I wouldn't be surprised if you are. I'm just saying you haven't been yet. What's actually known publicly is suggestive, that's it. Drawing radical conclusions now is no better than what the Republicans did to Hillary.

it's really a simple math equation. What are the odds of so many bizarre and inconceivable coincidences. Hint: You have a better chance of winning tonight's Powerball. There is absolutely no question that something nefarious happened. The only question is if the activity met a criminal threshold.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

The only question is if the activity met a criminal threshold.

So you finally admit that's still an open question. Progress.

 

[DrHoops]

Agree 100%

It could get interesting/entertaining if the ship really starts going down and all the rats jump off trying to save themselves.

I think the reason Flynn isn't going along with the subpoenas is because he's trying to make sure he has a deal first. He doesn't want to give the info away for free. He's already asked for full immunity.

I don't fully believe the FBI's reason for not giving congress all the Comey memos. I think the Mueller investigation gives the FBI a reason to withhold the memos, but I think the real reason the FBI isn't releasing the memos is because they don't want to take a chance that a real patriot like Chaffetz (sarcasm) will run over to the White House and give the administration a heads up. I think Trump is an idiot who pissed off the entire FBI and they are preparing to drop the hammer on him. I think the FBI is waiting to release all the memos publicly through testimony so the administration won't have a chance to get out in front of damaging info.

 

[toastedbread]

So you finally admit that's still an open question. Progress.

Why do you think I was arguing that various laws need adjusting? I'm nervous these traitors will find a way to slither out of this, due to narrowly defined criminal statues. What took place is so outrageous on its face that we are ****ed if this isn't criminal.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Why do you think I was arguing that various laws need adjusting? I'm nervous these traitors will find a way to slither out of this, due to narrowly defined criminal statues. What took place is so outrageous on its face that we are ****ed if this isn't criminal.

True. But I think I explained adequately already why I think you're crazy for wanting these criminal laws broadened. They are narrow for a reason.

 

[toastedbread]

True. But I think I explained adequately already why I think you're crazy for wanting these criminal laws broadened. They are narrow for a reason.

So let's say there is in fact collusion, and there is in fact "policy for pay". That there is something really rotten, but it can't be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in the court of law. Where do we then stand? What is the solution here?

In the meantime, we have people who are potentially traitors in charge of our govt. Considering this entire situation is unprecedented in our history, why should they not step aside until the investigation is complete? I.e. Paul Ryan takes Trumps place. If everything is kosher, Trump would then return to office.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

So let's say there is in fact collusion, and there is in fact "policy for pay". That there is something really rotten, but it can't be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in the court of law. Where do we then stand? What is the solution here?

In the meantime, we have people who are potentially traitors in charge of our govt. Considering this entire situation is unprecedented in our history, why should they not step aside until the investigation is complete? I.e. Paul Ryan takes Trumps place. If everything is kosher, Trump would then return to office.

There is already a political solution. It's called impeachment.

As for stepping aside, if the questions are severe enough, it might be appropriate for some administration officials or advisers to resign or take a temporary step back, but not Trump himself. Trump was elected to be President. Ryan was not. Besides, the 25th doesn't allow for Ryan to take Trump's place. If Trump were to temporarily step aside, Pence would become Acting President.

 

[UncleMark]

Why do you think I was arguing that various laws need adjusting? I'm nervous these traitors will find a way to slither out of this, due to narrowly defined criminal statues. What took place is so outrageous on its face that we are ****ed if this isn't criminal.

I don't care if it's criminal as long as it's impeachable.

 

[toastedbread]

There is already a political solution. It's called impeachment.

I don't care if it's criminal as long as it's impeachable.

If a (D) was prez, the impeachment proceedings would already be concluding. Presume that no steps toward impeachment are taken in my hypothetical above. I'll call impeachment a long-shot bet at best. If what we saw in Montana is evidence of today's GOP, they will live and die by Trump.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

If a (D) was prez, the impeachment proceedings would already be concluding. Presume that no steps toward impeachment are taken in my hypothetical above. I'll call impeachment a long-shot bet at best. If what we saw in Montana is evidence of today's GOP, they will live and die by Trump.

If no impeachment proceedings are ever initiated (and the 25th isn't invoked), then you still have the primary method available for Constitutionally removing a President from office: vote for the other guy in 2020.

 

[toastedbread]

If no impeachment proceedings are ever initiated (and the 25th isn't invoked), then you still have the primary method available for Constitutionally removing a President from office: vote for the other guy in 2020.

just call it the "we're screwed" option.

 

[UncleMark]

If no impeachment proceedings are ever initiated (and the 25th isn't invoked), then you still have the primary method available for Constitutionally removing a President from office: vote for the other guy in 2020.

There's nothing I'd like to see more than to be rid of this national embarrassment by next week. That said, it took only 18 months to get rid of Nixon, and he had a lot more going for him than this clown.

Trump's election initially made me doubt the strength of our political institutions. I've since calmed down a bit, and believe that the eventual outcome will be him leaving office before his term is up. Unfortunately, unlike Nixon, I think he'll put himself above the nation and make the Senate remove him. Yes, I know that will require a number of Republicans putting country before party. Call me naive, but I'm going to hang on to the belief they will do the right thing when called upon.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Yes, I know that will require a number of Republicans putting country before party. Call me naive, but I'm going to hang on to the belief they will do the right thing when called upon.

It might not. Depending on the political climate, especially after the 2018 midterms, some GOP Senators might decide it's better for the party to remove Trump and have Pence run as an incumbent.

 

[UncleMark]

It might not. Depending on the political climate, especially after the 2018 midterms, some GOP Senators might decide it's better for the party to remove Trump and have Pence run as an incumbent.

Fine by me. Whatever gets the job done.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Fine by me. Whatever gets the job done.

To add to that, although the GOP should hold the Senate in 2018, 22 of 33 seats up in 2020 are currently held by Republicans. If the GOP gets demolished in the midterms, especially if they lose the House, and the WH doesn't get any better at this (and by the time that happens, it would be hard to expect them to get any better), the party may view Trump as a huge liability.

 

[DrHoops]

Our government is currently like a Central American Junta or something....at least that's what I honestly believe Trump wants it to be.

There's nothing I'd like to see more than to be rid of this national embarrassment by next week. That said, it took only 18 months to get rid of Nixon, and he had a lot more going for him than this clown.

Trump's election initially made me doubt the strength of our political institutions. I've since calmed down a bit, and believe that the eventual outcome will be him leaving office before his term is up. Unfortunately, unlike Nixon, I think he'll put himself above the nation and make the Senate remove him. Yes, I know that will require a number of Republicans putting country before party. Call me naive, but I'm going to hang on to the belief they will do the right thing when called upon.

 

[DrHoops]

Gee, ya think?

To add to that, although the GOP should hold the Senate in 2018, 22 of 33 seats up in 2020 are currently held by Republicans. If the GOP gets demolished in the midterms, especially if they lose the House, and the WH doesn't get any better at this (and by the time that happens, it would be hard to expect them to get any better), the party may view Trump as a huge liability.

 

[mohoosier]

If a (D) was prez, the impeachment proceedings would already be concluding. Presume that no steps toward impeachment are taken in my hypothetical above. I'll call impeachment a long-shot bet at best. If what we saw in Montana is evidence of today's GOP, they will live and die by Trump.

This is the absolute funniest thing I've read in a long time. Whenever I have a bad day, I'll just be able to come back and read this post and smile. Unreal.

 

[Bill4411]

Our government is currently like a Central American Junta or something....at least that's what I honestly believe Trump wants it to be.

There's a lot of money that can be made in politics if you have a high enough office and no scruples. And the less people are allowed to challenge you provides you with even more opportunities to feast at the trough.

 

[DrHoops]

How far the Republican Party has fallen. They are actually ROOTING for Putin over NATO. It's beyond shocking. It's sickening. If Republicans hold this line, for the first time I think the American blueprint is over and a failure.

There's a lot of money that can be made in politics if you have a high enough office and no scruples. And the less people are allowed to challenge you provides you with even more opportunities to fest at the trough.

 

[Ladoga]

So much for an independent voice. His credibility is now 0.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/27/jared-kushner-hr-mcmaster-not-concerned-238885

Unprecedented.
http://www.businessinsider.com/jared-kushner-backchannel-plan-russia-flynn-2017-5

Trump eats ham sandwich. toastedbread demands he be imprisoned. Ham, sandwich, Trump, eat - 4 reasons for Maxine Waters and her sidekick toastedbread to demand that impeachment proceeding AND criminal charges be initiated. Wonder why they waited so long.

 

[UncleMark]

Our government is currently like a Central American Junta or something....at least that's what I honestly believe Trump wants it to be.

I'm convinced he truly doesn't get how our system of government is supposed to work. He doesn't understand that a "strong man" approach isn't possible. He thinks the lack of swift and decisive action is a sign of weakness, and all that's needed is someone willing to make the hard decisions. That's why he likes Executive Orders. I think he actually believes he's doing something, when the truth is his EOs only nibble at the edges of policy, and can be thwarted by other parties.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

just call it the "we're screwed" option.

No, the "we're screwed" option was fully implemented on Nov 8th 2016. People got what they wanted, or they got what they let happen because they were just "too pure" to vote for the non-maniac option. We had two options. America opted for the unstable sociopath. Generations from now people will look back and say "WTF were they smoking back then?"

 

[DrHoops]

Lagoda joins the Communist Party and goosesteps through Red Square! Congratulations, traitor.

Trump eats ham sandwich. toastedbread demands he be imprisoned. Ham, sandwich, Trump, eat - 4 reasons for Maxine Waters and her sidekick toastedbread to demand that impeachment proceeding AND criminal charges be initiated. Wonder why they waited so long.

 

[Bruce1]

This is a very interesting series of comments by some people who're really have their undies tied in a knot. The real story in all this is:

http://thefederalist.com/2017/05/19/watching-slow-motion-coup-detat/

 

[RBB89]

I liked the question, "what reason..?" I should have cut the rest out of my reply.

This will turn out as all prior investigations have...

Russian Collusion Facts:

View embedded media

View embedded media

I find your incessant defense of Trump fascinating. Seriously. What is it about the guy that still causes people to be so blindly loyal to him?

 

[wiede]

This is a very interesting series of comments by some people who're really have their undies tied in a knot. The real story in all this is:

http://thefederalist.com/2017/05/19/watching-slow-motion-coup-detat/

Isn't it possible that the administrative state is overgrown AND Trump and his team have engaged in some really bad things?

The two certainly are not mutually exclusive.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I find your incessant defense of Trump fascinating. Seriously. What is it about the guy that still causes people to be so blindly loyal to him?

What causes people to so blindly oppose EVERYTHING Trump does? I think he, and his cabinet and advisors, have some good ideas about what needs to be done to fix things. Just cuz I approve of those and have supported some of that on this forum doesn't make me "blindly loyal" to Trump*. The media and their sycophants in the Democratic party have shown themselves as being totally incapable of nuanced critical thinking. It is all about Trump=disaster for them.

I regularly criticize Trump on this forum. But I readily admit, I also find amusement in pointing out and discussing the exploding head nothingburgers so many of his critics argue about.

 

[sglowrider]

Why on Earth would Jared Kushner need to use secure Russian communications equipment to discuss something that is perfectly kosher? Even the RUSSIANS were taken aback by this request.

Benefit of the doubt no. 183.

Now that I am living outside the States i.e outside looking in, I dont look at these 'business guys' being incompetent as most people tends to perceive them.
I have seen or been involved in enough of these actions in war torn zones or dictatorships in Asia. You do not need to have183 times the Trumps/Kushner are being 'unorthodox' to recognise their pattern is anything else but something nefarious. You do not do back channels to your adversary at their facilities unless you have something to hide. Its as subtle as a brick.

Think of the people the Trump/Kushners normally deal with -- they don't normally play within the rules, US rules at least. After a while, your own behaviour becomes quite 'grey.' The fact that they have such blatant disregard for US institutional rules and protocols shows how long they have been at it in their business careers. Its just been baked in into their professional behavioral patterns. They only see regulations and rules are hindrances to their objectives.

And their motivation/objectives -- nothing but for the money. Whether they do a quid pro quo with Russia for financing or deals in return for lifting sanctions etc.

You need to stand up and be counted. Rule of law matters. Otherwise the US of A will land up being like of of the crazy places I had worked in. Not something to be proud of and certainly not some shining house on the hill.

 

[mohoosier]

Isn't it possible that the administrative state is overgrown AND Trump and his team have engaged in some really bad things?

The two certainly are not mutually exclusive.

Can you define for me what those bad things are? Define them with irrefutable evidence and I'll listen.

 

[mohoosier]

I find your incessant defense of Trump fascinating. Seriously. What is it about the guy that still causes people to be so blindly loyal to him?

So you know more than the Director of the CIA and Senator Feinstein? You are privy to facts that they don't have? Please share.

 

[bawlmer]

,

What causes people to so blindly oppose EVERYTHING Trump does? I think he, and his cabinet and advisors have some good ideas about what needs to be done to fix things. Just cuz I approve of those and have supported some of that on this forum doesn't make my "blindly loyal" to Trump*. The media and their sycophants in the Democratic party have shown themselves as being totally incapable of nuanced critical thinking. It is all about Trump=disaster for them.

*I regularly criticize Trump on this forum. But I readily admit, I also find amusement in pointing out and discussing the exploding head nothingburgers so many of his critics argue about.

I find him to be a despicable person, even though I don't disagree with everything he's done (maybe 5 percent). I can't wait until he's out of the White House. He's narcissistic, uninformed, unprincipled, and a liar.

 

[Ladoga]

Look, I'm not defending Trump. I'm not saying he didn't collude with the Russians to win the election. But that article - which you quoted - doesn't actually say what you claim, or what the Observer claims in its headline. It conveniently cuts away from a direct quote to offer "a probable reference to specific intelligence establishing collusion between the Kremlin and Team Trump." Probably according to whom? According to the author.

I think Trump is bad for America. I think when we finally get to the bottom of this, we will find that he and/or close members of his team engaged in very shady activity. I think that some of that activity may turn out to be criminal.

But you are putting the cart before the horse. We're not there yet.

This mob on the left of this board got there about 30 seconds after they learned that CLinton had lost the election. They've been running wild since then, They are "there" and its the craziest place this mob has ever been. I expect them to advocate armed revolution among their next fantasies. Or have some of them already done that?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

This mob on the left of this board got there about 30 seconds after they learned that CLinton had lost the election. They've been running wild since then, They are "there" and its the craziest place this mob has ever been. I expect them to advocate armed revolution among their next fantasies. Or have some of them already done that?

Amazing how offended you seem by this, considering you were on the front line of the same hyperbolic treatment of Clinton during the election.